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The Dervish in DL

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Feb 19, 2004 16:46:09 I have a new group, and a new book as well, Complete Warrior. In my new DL game I am starting my characters at level 5. So, yes most of them are using the min/max skills as best they can. But the thing is, one of them in particular hit on a really cool idea...She has made her Kagonesti fighter with the Dervish PrC from Complete Warrior in mind. HOw well do you all think that fits with DL? And does anybody have any ideas that I might pass on to the player for feat selection after she gains the class, items she should try to gain...things like that?
#2
cam_banks
Feb 19, 2004 17:51:38 The dervish fits into a Dragonlance campaign fairly easily! It's a nice class, very much in the vein of the "spinning blade of death" mold, and a Kagonesti may not be a bad candidate. In my campaign, I've already planned for dervishes to show up in the Khur region, though they might also (with some changes) appear among the sea barbarians of Saifhum or the barbarians in Estwilde.

Weapon specialization, improved initiative, improved critical and two-weapon fighting are all very good feat choices after the character picks up the PrC. Weapon finesse combined with the dervish's slashing blades ability lets you worry less about Strength and concentrate on Dexterity for both offensive and defensive potential. Skill-wise, if Tumble is always at maximum ranks, you're good to go. Alternate levels of dervish with fighter, however, since you can pick up more feats that way - although there's a point where dervish offers more than the fighter does.

Levels in barbarian wouldn't hurt, either. In fact, once the character qualifies for dervish, alternating levels of dervish and barbarian (or ranger, which is favored for Kagonesti) would be killer.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
zombiegleemax
Feb 19, 2004 19:32:55 Actually I have a player in my group who set up her character to be eligible for the Dervish when she qualifies. Background is from nomadic tribe of plainsmen in the plains of dust. Looked like it would fit right in there.
#4
zombiegleemax
Feb 21, 2004 12:19:24 Well....the player has decided that this is the way she wants to go.....and she is one who has never ever read any D&D based novels...so the characters from them are greek to her....the thing is, she has decided to give her Kagonesti Dervish two weapon fighting and use twin scimitars as those two weapons....She found that the dervish ability "A Thousand Cuts" doubles the number of attacks a character can make in a full attack, so she obviously found that that would count for the off hand attacks as well....And I dont see any reason this would be untrue...This is the character who doesnt need a ranged weapon....she is one. I can see it now...."Seven red spawn are heading your way, roaring challenges to you, their claws outstretched for the attack....What do you do?" "We set the dervish to puree and send her in" :D That basically is how I see it happening....;)
#5
cam_banks
Feb 21, 2004 13:43:25
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
She found that the dervish ability "A Thousand Cuts" doubles the number of attacks a character can make in a full attack, so she obviously found that that would count for the off hand attacks as well....And I dont see any reason this would be untrue.

By the time she gets this ability, her base attack bonus should be around +15, which means she gets two additional iterative attacks (one at +10 and one at +5). If she uses Two Weapon Fighting with her scimitars (which are considered light weapons for a dervish), she gets an additional off-hand attack, and all attacks are at -2. So that's +13/+13/+8/+3. She may have picked up Improved Two Weapon Fighting by this point, giving her another off-hand attack at the next iterative bonus, so that's +13/+13/+8/+8/+3. Double that once a day as part of a full attack action, and you get +13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+8/+8/+3/+3, which is ten attacks in one round from a 15th level character. Pretty amazing.

And assuming she also picks up Greater Two Weapon Fighting and has 19 Dex (and who wouldn't), this rises to 12 attacks in a round. Not bad at all. Of course, this is only once per day.

Cheers,
Cam
#6
zombiegleemax
Feb 21, 2004 14:34:13 Yes...this was what really brought the class into such a stylish and nasty focus.....basically combined with the fast movement and insane number of attacks its like sending in a cruise missile.
#7
zombiegleemax
Feb 21, 2004 18:51:42 And, another feat to consider, would be Power Crit from the Complete Warrior, taken 2 or 3 times, for the scimitar. It is just plain nasty if your threat is 15-20, or 12-20 if you get rid of the anti-fighter 3.5 rule where Imp Crit and Keen do not stack.
#8
cam_banks
Feb 21, 2004 23:22:25
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Yes...this was what really brought the class into such a stylish and nasty focus.....basically combined with the fast movement and insane number of attacks its like sending in a cruise missile.

Of course, that insane amount of attacks can only be accomplished with a full attack action. Fast movement won't help you on that round - it can get you there the round before, but then they all get a swing at you before you kick the multiple attacks into gear.

Cheers,
Cam
#9
zombiegleemax
Feb 22, 2004 12:05:20 Unless of course you are using the Dervish Dance ability which allows you to move your full speed AND make a full attack, you are required to make a minimum of five feet of movement in between attacks also with the benefit of cleave(or Great Cleave at higher levels) in which you dont have to move before making the extra cleave attacks(with A Thousand Cuts you can make 2 attacks before having to move five feet) So basically if you wanted to take the letter of the rule's advantage and circle each opponent you are facing, shred them down on each square until they fall, tumbling out of each square to avoid attacks of oppurtunity (and since you can take 10 on tumble at higher levels even under stress that shouldnt be a problem) This is the D&D cruise missilie Cam, Im tellin ya! :D
#10
cam_banks
Feb 22, 2004 13:45:28
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Unless of course you are using the Dervish Dance ability which allows you to move your full speed AND make a full attack...

That would do it, yep. Of course, then you end up with a one-trick pony character, although that's quite a trick.

Cheers,
Cam
#11
zombiegleemax
Feb 22, 2004 15:54:49 now i don't have the complete warrior book, or any of that series, but this dervish sounds mighty interesting. what else are in these books??

but can you imagine that character with a couple of the elemental magic abilities on those scimitars.

i e flaming burst and shocking burst, on those 10 or 12 attacks thats a possible... well lots of damage

i just hope that it doesent detract form the role-playing experience for the rest of the group.

what is in the party??
#12
zombiegleemax
Feb 22, 2004 23:20:16 Well.....I dont think it is gonna detract from the experience of everyone else....I have a WoHS who is going for the red robes...then the war mage prestige class....then the archmage class.......and then I have an arcane archer with hopes of multiclassing into deepwoods sniper as well.....then there is the possibility of a kender sorcerer with aspirations for arcane trickster.....darn....I really wish someone would make a straight dwarven fighter...lol....anyhow...to address the other issues....I think that first and foremost the dervish should take Improved crit-scimitar...and then get both scimitars enchanted with the keen ability....then get her to have them enchanted with the elemental bursts......hmmmm....wouldnt that get even nastier to have her have about say....5 rogue levels so her sneak attack could kick in with the devish dance and a thousand cuts? as long as she had the first turn in combat she could make all those attacks in sneak attack mode.....woooohee!
#13
zombiegleemax
Feb 23, 2004 9:36:33 Keen and Improved Crit don't stack in 3.5, so you can't abuse them to get an insane crit range anymore.

Yay for War Mage. I say go for it. You can be done with it by 11th level, if you really power towards it. Play a Human.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 19, 2004 16:46:09	I have a new group, and a new book as well, Complete Warrior. In my new DL game I am starting my characters at level 5. So, yes most of them are using the min/max skills as best they can. But the thing is, one of them in particular hit on a really cool idea...She has made her Kagonesti fighter with the Dervish PrC from Complete Warrior in mind. HOw well do you all think that fits with DL? And does anybody have any ideas that I might pass on to the player for feat selection after she gains the class, items she should try to gain...things like that?
#2 cam_banks Feb 19, 2004 17:51:38	The dervish fits into a Dragonlance campaign fairly easily! It's a nice class, very much in the vein of the "spinning blade of death" mold, and a Kagonesti may not be a bad candidate. In my campaign, I've already planned for dervishes to show up in the Khur region, though they might also (with some changes) appear among the sea barbarians of Saifhum or the barbarians in Estwilde. Weapon specialization, improved initiative, improved critical and two-weapon fighting are all very good feat choices after the character picks up the PrC. Weapon finesse combined with the dervish's slashing blades ability lets you worry less about Strength and concentrate on Dexterity for both offensive and defensive potential. Skill-wise, if Tumble is always at maximum ranks, you're good to go. Alternate levels of dervish with fighter, however, since you can pick up more feats that way - although there's a point where dervish offers more than the fighter does. Levels in barbarian wouldn't hurt, either. In fact, once the character qualifies for dervish, alternating levels of dervish and barbarian (or ranger, which is favored for Kagonesti) would be killer. Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Feb 19, 2004 19:32:55	Actually I have a player in my group who set up her character to be eligible for the Dervish when she qualifies. Background is from nomadic tribe of plainsmen in the plains of dust. Looked like it would fit right in there.
#4 zombiegleemax Feb 21, 2004 12:19:24	Well....the player has decided that this is the way she wants to go.....and she is one who has never ever read any D&D based novels...so the characters from them are greek to her....the thing is, she has decided to give her Kagonesti Dervish two weapon fighting and use twin scimitars as those two weapons....She found that the dervish ability "A Thousand Cuts" doubles the number of attacks a character can make in a full attack, so she obviously found that that would count for the off hand attacks as well....And I dont see any reason this would be untrue...This is the character who doesnt need a ranged weapon....she is one. I can see it now...."Seven red spawn are heading your way, roaring challenges to you, their claws outstretched for the attack....What do you do?" "We set the dervish to puree and send her in" :D That basically is how I see it happening....;)
#5 cam_banks Feb 21, 2004 13:43:25	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst She found that the dervish ability "A Thousand Cuts" doubles the number of attacks a character can make in a full attack, so she obviously found that that would count for the off hand attacks as well....And I dont see any reason this would be untrue. By the time she gets this ability, her base attack bonus should be around +15, which means she gets two additional iterative attacks (one at +10 and one at +5). If she uses Two Weapon Fighting with her scimitars (which are considered light weapons for a dervish), she gets an additional off-hand attack, and all attacks are at -2. So that's +13/+13/+8/+3. She may have picked up Improved Two Weapon Fighting by this point, giving her another off-hand attack at the next iterative bonus, so that's +13/+13/+8/+8/+3. Double that once a day as part of a full attack action, and you get +13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8/+8/+8/+3/+3, which is ten attacks in one round from a 15th level character. Pretty amazing. And assuming she also picks up Greater Two Weapon Fighting and has 19 Dex (and who wouldn't), this rises to 12 attacks in a round. Not bad at all. Of course, this is only once per day. Cheers, Cam
#6 zombiegleemax Feb 21, 2004 14:34:13	Yes...this was what really brought the class into such a stylish and nasty focus.....basically combined with the fast movement and insane number of attacks its like sending in a cruise missile.
#7 zombiegleemax Feb 21, 2004 18:51:42	And, another feat to consider, would be Power Crit from the Complete Warrior, taken 2 or 3 times, for the scimitar. It is just plain nasty if your threat is 15-20, or 12-20 if you get rid of the anti-fighter 3.5 rule where Imp Crit and Keen do not stack.
#8 cam_banks Feb 21, 2004 23:22:25	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Yes...this was what really brought the class into such a stylish and nasty focus.....basically combined with the fast movement and insane number of attacks its like sending in a cruise missile. Of course, that insane amount of attacks can only be accomplished with a full attack action. Fast movement won't help you on that round - it can get you there the round before, but then they all get a swing at you before you kick the multiple attacks into gear. Cheers, Cam
#9 zombiegleemax Feb 22, 2004 12:05:20	Unless of course you are using the Dervish Dance ability which allows you to move your full speed AND make a full attack, you are required to make a minimum of five feet of movement in between attacks also with the benefit of cleave(or Great Cleave at higher levels) in which you dont have to move before making the extra cleave attacks(with A Thousand Cuts you can make 2 attacks before having to move five feet) So basically if you wanted to take the letter of the rule's advantage and circle each opponent you are facing, shred them down on each square until they fall, tumbling out of each square to avoid attacks of oppurtunity (and since you can take 10 on tumble at higher levels even under stress that shouldnt be a problem) This is the D&D cruise missilie Cam, Im tellin ya! :D
#10 cam_banks Feb 22, 2004 13:45:28	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Unless of course you are using the Dervish Dance ability which allows you to move your full speed AND make a full attack... That would do it, yep. Of course, then you end up with a one-trick pony character, although that's quite a trick. Cheers, Cam
#11 zombiegleemax Feb 22, 2004 15:54:49	now i don't have the complete warrior book, or any of that series, but this dervish sounds mighty interesting. what else are in these books?? but can you imagine that character with a couple of the elemental magic abilities on those scimitars. i e flaming burst and shocking burst, on those 10 or 12 attacks thats a possible... well lots of damage i just hope that it doesent detract form the role-playing experience for the rest of the group. what is in the party??
#12 zombiegleemax Feb 22, 2004 23:20:16	Well.....I dont think it is gonna detract from the experience of everyone else....I have a WoHS who is going for the red robes...then the war mage prestige class....then the archmage class.......and then I have an arcane archer with hopes of multiclassing into deepwoods sniper as well.....then there is the possibility of a kender sorcerer with aspirations for arcane trickster.....darn....I really wish someone would make a straight dwarven fighter...lol....anyhow...to address the other issues....I think that first and foremost the dervish should take Improved crit-scimitar...and then get both scimitars enchanted with the keen ability....then get her to have them enchanted with the elemental bursts......hmmmm....wouldnt that get even nastier to have her have about say....5 rogue levels so her sneak attack could kick in with the devish dance and a thousand cuts? as long as she had the first turn in combat she could make all those attacks in sneak attack mode.....woooohee!
#13 zombiegleemax Feb 23, 2004 9:36:33	Keen and Improved Crit don't stack in 3.5, so you can't abuse them to get an insane crit range anymore. Yay for War Mage. I say go for it. You can be done with it by 11th level, if you really power towards it. Play a Human.