Kalak Ogre Doom
Dregoth Ravager of Giants
Myron Troll Scorcher
Manu of Deche Troll Scorcher Hammanu
Uyness of Waverly Orc Plague Abalach-Re
Gallard Bane of Gnomes Nibenay
Sielba Destroyer of Pterrans also known as Sprite Claw
Albeorn of Dunswich, Slayer of Elves Andropinis
Tectuktitlay Wemic Annihilator
Keltis Lizard Man Executioner Orinis
Lalai-Puy Aarakocra Scourge also known as Ogre Naught
Wyan Pixie Blight
Borys of Ebe Butcher of Dwarves
Daskinor Goblin Death
Kalid-Ma Tari Killer
Irikos champion of the orcs
Pennarin ??? (haven't read RaFoaDK lately)
The Merek guy
Neksos replaced by Borys of Ebe to be Butcher of Dwarves
Now, this is what I think, leaving Penn and Merek out of it cause I'm not up to date on these guys, I don't think Kalak was a true champion, but was granted the ability to grant templars his spells thanks to Borys (something which is covered in my article). Now all aside, I know that some want them to be linked to the vortices or the dark lens (depending on which one you go with) during the Cleansing Wars and not after, but in essence, with everything I have read anyways, there is no way that could have been the case.
So we have to assume that what Borys did was not only start them on their way to beomcing dragons, but it also connected them to living vortices which enables them to grant spells to their templar worshippers, which is covered by the official timeline.
Now, after just reading about Neksos from TotDL (under the Morg entry), it occurs to me that I may have been in error to make Irikos a champion as well, only because of all the replacements and such that were around at that time. I don't neccessarily want to use that for my campaign (I'll find a way to clean it up more in that regard), I do want to take that into consideration at least with this thread.
So that leave Penn or Merek to be the champions of the Ogres, unless we go with what RaFoaDK states about Lali-Puy, which says she was the champion against the ogres. If that is the case then either Penn or Merek was in charge of wiping out the orcs, probably Merek in this case since they describe Penn's race briefly and doesn't sound like an orc IMO.
Penn probably had his own race as well, but here is another thought, what if someone else was champion of the ogres, failed, and Lali-Puy gained the task to take them out as well along with the aarokocra?
That's about it for now, I'm going to let that stew some.
The M guy is Merek but he's probably just an underling to Hamanu
Orcs were charged to Abalach-Re. So orcs don't need another champion.
Another possibility for Lalali-Puy was that she was the Ogre Naught and failed so became Aarokocra Scourge to make up for her failure.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I didn't think Lalai-Puy was named the Ogre-Naught in Rise & Fall. I thought it was Abalach-Re that was. It's been a little while since I read that book, so I could be mistaken.
Nope, Lali-Puy, could be wrong though, but it came from the other thread and more than one person has verified it.
I need to read that book again, heh.
Anyways, just for added info, I'd like to write about what I know of each champion, some ideas, some questions:
Sacha of Arala: Not much, but as first champion, it stands to reason he was one of the most powerful. He made (relative) short work of the Kobolds. Its also clear that he was favored by Rajaat, as he remained loyal to his master at the time of the betrayal. I don't know anything about Arala, except I think I read that it is now swallowed by the Silt in the timeline.
Kalak: The big question. I never read RaFoaDK, but I plan to buy it on ebay soon, if I can. Anyways, I always thought Kalak never started his Dragon Metamorphosis until the events which led to his death, and I'm almost certain I saw stats of him as a human wiz/psi. Anyways, my own vision of his character is better as human of great power, seeking to surpass the champions he envies by another path.
Irikos: Though I could live with the idea that Irikos was simply a warlord, mechanically a non-, or minor spellcaster, but a great fighter, I really like Nyt's write-up of the character's story. It also seems a bit unlikely that Rajaat would send a non-spellcaster, non-champion to attack a stronghold of preservers. To use the silencer, you have to get to them...
Dregoth: I don't know much about him, save for the story of his death/undeath and later creation of New Guistenal and the Dray. Apparently, from what I see here, Dregoth was already a ''god-king'' of immense power, immortal along with his high templar, and might have joined the Champions because of his sheer power and because he was already at war with the giants. I like that idea a lot. Where does it come from?
Myron: I'd like to know what that guy did exactly. I think the timeline mentions lack of progress, no? Anyways, I always saw him as being personally slain by Manu in personal combat, but something seen as a major upset, everyone unsuspecting of Hamanu's combat abilities.
Hamanu: I do like the idea that's been thrown around about Hamanu having been chosen to be a Human Cleanser, Champions of Champions. I always saw him as incredibly powerful even before Rajaat took notice of him. He could have been a great warrior and psion. Also, his grudge with Myron might come from something which led him to have a death wish. Seeing that, Rajaat took the one who manage to singlehandedly defeat one of his champions, and with nothing to lose, Hamanu agreed to train be the last champion. It also explains how hamanu was the one who knew about Rajaat's last plan and told Borys. Anyways.
Abalach-Re: Intriguing character. Seems chaotic and uncaring at best. I find it weird that the other SKs rallied behind her against Dregoth. There might be some reason or enmity between her and Dregoth worth investigating.
Nibenay: Now, that guy is clearly a very powerful spellcaster. One of the last SKs, the most advanced dragonwise, Nibenay is also the one who designed the spells to bind Rajaat, which is no small deed. He also seems to spend lots of time on his own researches. His isolation and self-contemplation might be why he was not chosen amongst the first champions. In my original DS history and campaign ideas, I had him develop the spell which created the obsidian plains, in a last attempt to crush the industrious and ingenious gnomes forever. I'd like very much to see SotDL, because I now have another Idea which could very well work with that.
Sielba: I always saw her as a way to add a somewhat long lost oriental culture in DS, namely monks. Yamaruke really has an oriental sounding, though her own name does not. Anyways, not much is said about her.
Androphinis: Roman/Greeks make nice tyrants of City-States. I liked what I read about Balic in the Obsidian Oracle. I'm also happy that he is trapped in the black, not killed. Makes a nice plot for templars to have him freed by some scheme, mingling PCs with merchant houses, templars, agents, old magics...
Tektutitlay: I find it weird that Draj is described as such a warrior city, but yet I haven't read anywhere they fought anything or anyone worth mentionning. I liked the campaign idea of the PC game Shattered Lands (which is freeware now btw) where Draj builds an army to crush the villages of the wastes surrounding it. seems to me King Tek could have been more aggressive, or even mercenary. Azteks once built their fortune by being the mercenaries of what is now Latin america. I think Draji could make great exotic merceneries. As for King Tek himself, I like his character. I also liked someone's idea of wemic surviving by hiding in the black (ala Shade) and now being dark brooding creatures more akin to black panters than lions.
Oronis: Has such a great story. no need to elaborate.
Lalali-Puy: Interesting character. I'm not aware of what race she really fought, besides aarakocras from WC. Her character is nice enough, and I really like the gulg culture, especially the Judaga.
Wyan: Interesting mind in the Obsidian Oracle... ;) I think Wyan might have been implicated in the destruction of Bodach, along with Irikos, which makes him very loyal to Rajaat, and/or very evil. I also see him as one of the major cause to the destruction of Athas's environment. Fighting Pixies must undoubtably have required lots of destruction of forested areas.
Borys: Must have had something really special to become the leader of the rebellion, and not simply Hamanu. It would make more sense if he's a replacement, since he would have been picked in another wave of champions to-be, and not 13th of the first draft. I also saw Borys as the one who developped the Dragon Metamorphosis spell, and alsocertainly to one who started the champions on their transformation. Ur Draxa is cool, and the Silt Archipelago stuff of Afghan is just great.
Daskinor: A great story too. Must be an interesting campaign setting, that city... hehehe...
Kalid-Ma: See my description in Kalidnay thread, or Nyt's site.
Pennarin: No idea.
Merek: No idea.
Neksos: No idea, though its seems fitting he would be Borys' preceding champion.
1--- I like what you wrote.
2-- but wheb you say.
Sacha of Arala: Not much, but as first champion, it stands to reason he was one of the most powerful. He made (relative) short work of the Kobolds. Its also clear that he was favored by Rajaat, as he remained loyal to his master at the time of the betrayal.
You are wrong. Sacha is not the first of the chosen. In fact none of us can say who the first was. Why, will you ask?? Simply because in WC right before stating the remaining 15 champions it is written that there were many more champion at the beginning of the cleansing but at Borys's rebellion *time period* only 15 remained(I think they were 15--dont have WC in front of me now) I would even go as far as to suggest that there may have been more champion in Borys's rebellion but were killed by Rajaat before its final downfall(imprisonnement) bare with that Borys's rebellion plan had to have flaws of somesort against a being as powerfull has Rajaat!!
Also as a side comment. dont you think it odd to realise that sasha would have been Rajaat favorite and the most powerfull of the Champions but was givin to him the harduous task of anihilating....................................... kobolds.:OMG!
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
Also as a side comment. dont you think it odd to realise that sasha would have been Rajaat favorite and the most powerfull of the Champions but was givin to him the harduous task of anihilating....................................... kobolds.:OMG!
Hey now, those paragon kobolds can kick some mean booty now.
:D
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Another possibility for Lalali-Puy was that she was the Ogre Naught and failed so became Aarokocra Scourge to make up for her failure.
I presumed that the race a champion is to annihilate is set at creation of said champion and can't be changed.
He's free to do as he want, of course, but:
«Sunlight will sustain you, but you will grow sleek only in pursuit of your destiny»
- Rajaat to Hamanu, RaFoaDK
Not canon, but a good way of putting it
Originally posted by Pennarin
I presumed that the race a champion is to annihilate is set at creation of said champion and can't be changed.
He's free to do as he want, of course, but:
«Sunlight will sustain you, but you will grow sleek only in pursuit of your destiny»
- Rajaat to Hamanu, RaFoaDK
Not canon, but a good way of putting it
Good point, but what I was saying that it was Rajaat who change the title not Lali-Puy herself. ;)
*HUGE* difference.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Intereesting enough, Neksos is refered to as a warlord as well in TotDL.
So maybe Neksos isn't a champion either.
TotDL, page 49: 'In life Sekdo Azeg was a war-chief of the armies of the Neksos, one of Rajaat's Champions.'
The text describes Sekdo Azeg as: '[...] leading assaults on some of the most inaccessible dwarf-holds of the southern Tablelands'.
Originally posted by Pennarin
TotDL, page 49: 'In life Sekdo Azeg was a war-chief of the armies of the Neksos, one of Rajaat's Champions.'
The text describes Sekdo Azeg as: '[...] leading assaults on some of the most inaccessible dwarf-holds of the southern Tablelands'.
Yeah, forgot to correct that later after I reread it. :P
Bit of info: WJ says Borys is to annihilate the dwarves.
TotDL: The Neksos is a Champion who appears to be tasked with annihilating the dwarves.
Analysis: The Neksos is to annihilate the dwarves and is the Champion that precedes Borys in this endeavor.
Abalach-Re: Intriguing character. Seems chaotic and uncaring at best. I find it weird that the other SKs rallied behind her against Dregoth. There might be some reason or enmity between her and Dregoth worth investigating.
Topic for another thread . . . (to be continued)
Ogres in other setting have Ogre mages, right? powerful beings, physcially and magically. Now let's Dark-sun-afiy it. Ogres on Darksun were physcially powerful, even moreso than other campain worlds - they'd beat half-giants heads into pulp with one hand. Not a problem for a single martial-orientated champion, problem is, as a race about 1/20 (1/100?) were Ogre Psions (instead of Ogre Mages) being of equal strength, but also great intelligence and having NATURAL psionic powers (no PP's to use, a little like illithids and mind blast).
As a race, they stood alone in power and potential to disrupt the plans of Rajaat, especially as some of them had also learned magic...
As a result, Rajaat sent Kalak *AND* Irikos as a team to decimate this race... one of the duo was martial orientated, the other focused on taking out the Ogre Psion Cheifs, and preventing them forming a co-herent nation...
thoughts?
instead of ogre mages = ogre psions.... just replace the abilites.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
You mean the Ogre Psions had an equal number of psi-like abilities to match what a psion has as powers? Sheesh, I don't even think GODS get that.
While I was perusing my PAoA I found this little tidbit about Irikos:
(Bold is my emphasis)
When Rajaat planned the Cleansing Wars 4,000 years ago, the great defiler warlord crafted three mighty weapons to be given to his most favored champions. The Silencer was given to the left-hand of Rajaat, a warlord named Irikos, who was later killed after destroying the city of Bodach. The second weapon, a long sword called Scorcher was given to the right-hand of Rajaat- a warlord named Myron who later became known as Myron the Troll Scorcher, 4th Champion of Rajaat. And the third was the Scourge given to Borys of Ebe. With the Silencer lost following Irikos' death, Rajaat relied heavily on Myron during his war with the preservers of Athas, and with the help of the Scorcher Rajaat succeeded. Next came the Cleansing Wars.
When Rajaat planned the Cleansing Wars 4,000 years ago, the great defiler warlord crafted three mighty weapons to be given to his most favored champions. The Silencer was given to the left-hand of Rajaat, a warlord named Irikos, who was later killed after destroying the city of Bodach. The second weapon, a long sword called Scorcher was given to the right-hand of Rajaat- a warlord named Myron who later became known as Myron the Troll Scorcher, 4th Champion of Rajaat. And the third was the Scourge given to Borys of Ebe. With the Silencer lost following Irikos' death, Rajaat relied heavily on Myron during his war with the preservers of Athas, and with the help of the Scorcher Rajaat succeeded. Next came the Cleansing Wars.
/inserts knife into face
/readies psionic surgury
we already went through this ear
if Nyt is deciding to "reconsider his haste", you'd better believe that logic has finally entered this joint
What if, just prior to the actual genocidal Clensing Wars, Rajaat had turned the people (and his armies) against political and power groups. This would be an especially sound tactic, to disrupt the power supply of the opposition before commiting mass eradication. Plus, any major organization would have far fewer numbers than any one given race, and it would be far easier to justify the war against a power group than it would to justify genocide. Turn the people against preservers, then wipe them off the face of Athas. With the wizards out of the picture, Rajaat could then turn his warmachine against specific races with more impunity. Thinking along this line doesn't really contradict anything canon-wise, or in the timeline. There's no mention of precursor wars, but that doesn't mean that the Clensing Wars started with a bang on day 1.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Turn the people against preservers, then wipe them off the face of Athas. [...] Thinking along this line doesn't really contradict anything canon-wise, or in the timeline. There's no mention of precursor wars, but that doesn't mean that the Clensing Wars started with a bang on day 1.
There is a war before the Cleansing Wars.
A war againts preservers, beginning at the 134th King's Age and lasting possibly up to and beyond the creation of the champions, in the 144th King's Age. Lots of damage can be done in a thousand years:
134th King's Age (-4,312)
-King's Agitation
Rajaat begins a jihad against the preservers of Athas for the next thousand years. Preservers across the land go into hiding while fighting a losing battle against the followers of Rajaat.
144th King's Age (-3,542)
-Priest's Contemplation
Rajaat sends all but a few of his students away. Using the power of the Pristine Tower and the mysterious Dark Lens Rajaat creates his Champions. Each Champion is ordered to eliminate one specific race from the face of Athas in an effort to bring about the return of the Blue Age. The Cleansing Wars begin.
The fortress of Akarakle was destroyed by a defiler warlord known as Merek, the group of preservers in it being one of the last to stand. Merek was working for or in concert with Hamanu (read the Road of Fire in Dragon's Crown).
Since the preserver stronghold was not full of trolls, we can safely assume that Merek was there not in the cause of the Cleansing Wars but in the continuation of the 'preserver jihad', possibly indicating that the jihad lasted beyond the 144th King's Age.
Comments?
Nom original... où est-ce que t'as pêché ça???
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
You are wrong. Sacha is not the first of the chosen. In fact none of us can say who the first was. Why, will you ask?? Simply because in WC right before stating the remaining 15 champions it is written that there were many more champion at the beginning of the cleansing but at Borys's rebellion *time period* only 15 remained(I think they were 15--dont have WC in front of me now) I would even go as far as to suggest that there may have been more champion in Borys's rebellion but were killed by Rajaat before its final downfall(imprisonnement) bare with that Borys's rebellion plan had to have flaws of somesort against a being as powerfull has Rajaat!!
Actually, I have to disagree. Though their is mention in a few works of other champions, and I do support the idea, I believe their are more than enough signs to point out that the ordering of the champions is not accidental, nor random. There are several references to a champion ''being knighted Xth champion'', and numbering is consistant through the timeline, which preceeds the rebellion of Borys.
Also, the additionnal champions, which Nytcrwlr and Pennarin narrowed down to Pennarin, Merek, Irikos and Neksos as possiblities, can all be fitted into the story as previous champions which were replaces, or subordinates of actual champions.
Finally, I think it would be weird if Rajaat had made dozens of champions, as if they were an expandable ressource. I also think there is mention of him narrowing down his students to 15 candidates before sending the rest of his wizard apprentices away.
So, I really think the numbering is not random, and should be somewhat representative of the status of the former champions. It also makes some sense that the first champion be a favorite of Rajaat, since he did remain loyal to him, which brings some support to the idea of the numbering having something to do with status.
Also as a side comment. dont you think it odd to realise that sasha would have been Rajaat favorite and the most powerfull of the Champions but was givin to him the harduous task of anihilating....................................... kobolds!
It's funny because I was anticipating that kind of reaction, and I had thought of writing about it before, but I was too tired. But I will now.
No, I don't think its odd, quite the contrary. You see, if I were a champion of Rajaat, I would much rather have to ravage giants, for example, than be the curse of kobolds.
As a champion, I'd be a Human Champion of Rajaat Wizard (who defiles) 18 / Psion 16 / Fighter 6 / Archmage 5 / Loremaster 2 / Kickass prestige some / Epic 4. To me, killing the critter is not the problem. Kobold or giant, it'll still fall with my quickened widened empowered maximized fireball. And neither'll be able to do anything about it, because I'm levitating over them, trying not to break concentration by laughing as I bombard them with meteors or so.
However, the point of being a champion is not killing their prey, its exterminating them.
Lets say I want to exterminate giants. I go to an Island, shake that big fortress of theirs, blast the 15 or so defenders that put up a fight, go in and kill the 4-5 that hide inside, and stay a while to look around for the 2-3 survivors that might have escaped the initial assault. Then, I move on to that next island over there.
Now lets say I want to exterminate kobolds. I go to some mountain, look for some holes, and send troops in to massacre the few hundred kobolds that are there. Of course, dozen escape deeper in the caves, and some slip past outside to the countryside, since their so small and sneaky things. Now, since I don't really want to get cramped into those caves, I don't really go myself, except where there are considerable pockets of them, but I always seem to find more under some rock or hidden passage. Then, after a few weeks or so of cleansing that area, I finally get sick of it and devise some spell do destroy all the forests nearby and collapse the damn mountain. Once its done, killing those little pesky critters that were hiding, I move on. However, 20 years later, I hear that some agent of mine returned to that site and found some passage still open in that friggin' mountain, and that them damn kobolds, what, 4 or 5 of 'em, who managed to elude my troops and return underground there, with their fast reproduction cycles, have now formed a colony of close to 100 individuals. So I decimate the incompetent legions I sent there for missing those 4 kobolds out of the 500 that we found there, recruit new guys, and send them to hopefully do a better job than the last. When they get there, they slay as much as they can, and follow the fleeding and now paranoid kobolds deeper in the mountain caves, only to find out that there is this underground passage that winds up in the nearby mountain chain, were there are dozens of caves, with thousands of kobolds... Damn it!
Point is, when trying to commit genocide, its the number of prey rather than their size which matters. As such, I do think Sacha's achievement is much more impressive than it sounds, and as the first one to achieve his goal, was probably one of the most powerful champions, or at least the most dedicated to the cause.
Because of contradictions and other material, we assume there were more champions than stated in the Wanderer's Chronicle. They might have been prior champions later replaced by those in the Chronicle, or unmentionned champions. However, there is something weird about that.
Myron. If Irikos, Neksos or Pennarin, or some other nameless champion existed, how come they are not mentionned as Myron is? Why would the listing of all 15 champions which survived the betrayal of Rajaat include Myron, if that listing is only meant to detail those 15 who survived the downfall of Rajaat? And if Kalak and Borys are also replacements, why aren't those whom they replace stated as Myron is?
Of course, the answer probably is, the authors didn't think this thing all the way through, and left the door open for changes and additions.
So, we have to come up with these conclusions:
1a- The listing of the wanderer's chronicle is completely exclusive (meaning there cannot be anymore champions, no matter what their role was or how they fell)
OR
1b- The listing of the wanderer's chronicle is not exclusive at all, and is only a reference to best known champions, for reasons which are left to determine. Some might be replacement, or simply have been recorded as champions in history.
2- If we want to have any real ''canon'' material, we'll have to write it ourselves...
The pre-Cleansing War ones, of which Irikos, Myron and Borys are mentioned as belonging to and where the word champion isn't a title.
Then there are the Champions. These took part in the Cleansing Wars. This is a specific title. These are also the fellows and ladies to whom the powers of the Sorceror-Monarchs were given.
Huge difference between the two.
kefka WTF is your problem? Nowhere in this thread (or really for that matter in any other thread)have I read anything anyone even alluding to what I posted. I was delivering evidence (after a fashion) to an argument. You know, a series of connected thoughts intended to support an idea. Maybe you have heard of this?
Go flame someone else.
I would not put Sacha or Wyan into the category of the most powerful champions that Rajaat made, but not among the weakest either, like Abalach-Re is said to be.
Sacha's single-mindedness (he only has dead kobolds in his mind, nothing else) must have made him a great adversary, not matter the control he had over psionics or sorcery.
In comparaison, Myron was a very powerful champion, but not a great adversary at all, since he killed only a few individuals a year. He wasn't dedicated but a traitor to the cause, and Rajaat made him pay for it.
As for erasmus' comment, I wouldn't set too much importance in the fact that there are records stating that some champions had extracurricular activities before the Cleansing Wars, or even while it was going on.
Because considering that Myron was the fourth champion and that he made war on the preservers and also participated in the cleansing wars, all the while with Rajaat pouring out newly created or ordained champions, it only means that Rajaat used any ressources at his disposal to finish that long lasting preserver war.
I would also think he took around a hundred years (+/-) to make his core champions. I see no reason to say he made them all in a day.
And the war with the preservers was already underway for about a thousand years before Rajaat made his first champion ;)
this is a flame
it was just a pun gone wrong and got bleeped
so wtf and neh?!
Originally posted by erasmus1634
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When Rajaat planned the Cleansing Wars 4,000 years ago, the great defiler warlord crafted three mighty weapons to be given to his most favored champions. The Silencer was given to the left-hand of Rajaat, a warlord named Irikos, who was later killed after destroying the city of Bodach. The second weapon, a long sword called Scorcher was given to the right-hand of Rajaat- a warlord named Myron who later became known as Myron the Troll Scorcher, 4th Champion of Rajaat. And the third was the Scourge given to Borys of Ebe. With the Silencer lost following Irikos' death, Rajaat relied heavily on Myron during his war with the preservers of Athas, and with the help of the Scorcher Rajaat succeeded. Next came the Cleansing Wars.
Problem with this is that it only mentions Myron becoming a champion later.
So one of two things can be assumed after reading this:
1) Borys and Irikos weren't champions at all.
2) The author, like many of T$R's flunkies, can't write and therefore deceives us yet again with even more inconsistencies.
I think it's more than alright to assume that all three were champions at one point or another, otherwise the author would have mentioned Borys becoming a champion as well.
Originally posted by kefka
if Nyt is deciding to "reconsider his haste", you'd better believe that logic has finally entered this joint
Nope, just approaching a more official standpoint.
The article I wrote for my campaign is not changing, not sure how many times I have to say this.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Nope, just approaching a more official standpoint.
The article I wrote for my campaign is not changing, not sure how many times I have to say this.
;)
“Hammanu,
Tomorrow we will begin the assault on Akarakle. By sun ascending, I will control the largest deposits of obsidian on Athas. By morning, the red and black will fly over Akarakle and Haakar’s head will adorn the battlements of my new home.
Glad tidings,
Merek”
Are Hammanu’s colours red and black?
Akarakle is a Preserver stronghold made more valuable by being on top of obsidian deposits.
I don’t see this Merek guy as a champion. Here is why, Merek’s involvement with the destruction of the preserver fortress must have happened during the cleansing wars. Specifically when Hammanu is in charge of scorching trolls. Remember the letter in the Road of Fire book is to Hammanu. After all the preserver strongholds are destroyed, a few are bound to pop back up during the cleansing wars. However, none of these new strongholds are going to be as powerful as the previous strongholds simply because they are new. Therefore, you are not going to need to send a champion after these upstarts. A fraction of an army with an experienced commander ( say Hammanu’s with General Merek ) would suffice. This makes the most sense to me.
If Merek is a champion during the preserver wars. I only see a few options
Rajaat must have keep him reserve during the cleansing wars so that if any new preserver strongholds pop up there is an experienced champion ready to slap them down. Keeping and entire army in reserve over the time period of the cleansing wars seems very wasteful. WTF is Merek doing reporting to Hammanu about a war on the coast when Hammanu is probably up north throwin trolls in a crater when he should be reporting to Rajaat?
Or, he had already beat down the preservers and his assigned race. I would think, if that was the case, that we would hear more about him then a signature on bottom of the letter, that someone as accomplished as himself would have never written to Hammanu, the upstart peasant farmer.
If Merek was a champion only during the cleansing wars.
He must have finished and was looking for a retirement property and gets kills by Haakar, a 17th level preserver. Hakkar is part of the group that made the psionitix ( the wind mages who disappeared during the preserver wars, I say disappeared because their fortress was not destroyed)
Or perhaps Merek was the most unsuccessful of all the champions and he dies before he even gets started on his assigned race. Assuming that he need the resources of Akarakle to finance his war.
Originally posted by ishnid
The letter from Road of Fire
“Hammanu,
Tomorrow we will begin the assault on Akarakle. By sun ascending, I will control the largest deposits of obsidian on Athas. By morning, the red and black will fly over Akarakle and Haakar’s head will adorn the battlements of my new home.
Glad tidings,
Merek”
Are Hammanu’s colours red and black?
Actually, I think it might be more of a reference of fire & smoke, albeit it's pretty abstract.
Originally posted by ishnid
Are Hammanu’s colours red and black?
In the books the templars wear white, in the novels yellow, with the added reference that its the kings color.
Another writing screw-up by TSR
Originally posted by ishnid
I don’t see this Merek guy as a champion.
[...] that someone as accomplished as himself would have never written to Hammanu, the upstart peasant farmer.
No champion would defer as such to another champion. He's a defiler warlord, an actual one this time, but not a champion.
Originally posted by ishnid
WTF is Merek doing reporting to Hammanu about a war on the coast when Hammanu is probably up north throwin trolls in a crater when he should be reporting to Rajaat?
Another screw-up.
Originally posted by ishnid
If Merek is a champion during the preserver wars.
If there is mention of Hamanu in the same sentence as anything else, we can at least pinpoint the date to anytime after Hamanu's creation, i.e. during the Cleansing Wars. So if Merek is bashing a preserver stronghold, it means that the preserver war is somehow still going on...
Originally posted by ishnid
Hakkar is part of the group that made the psionitix ( the wind mages who disappeared during the preserver wars, I say disappeared because their fortress was not destroyed)
At least two preserver strongholds survived to the time of the Cleansing Wars, implying the preserver war was still going on, somehow.
Originally posted by ishnid
[...] and gets kills by Haakar, a 17th level preserver.
Haakar unleashed a tremendous power. It snuffed the life of everyone in the fortress, plus the army camped outside, and killed Merek. Haakar had months to develop the spell he thought would make him more than he was; in short, a failed metamorphosis spell. Powered by all that life energy, and focused by all that obsidian. So its possible. Just don't expect to come alive out of it.
Originally posted by kefka
that wasn't a flame
this is a flame
it was just a pun gone wrong and got bleeped
so wtf and neh?!
My bad then!
my deepest apologies...
Back to the topic.
in one book of the prism pendant is mentioned that kalak wasn´t a champion. he didn´t grand spells to his templars, the heads of wyan and sascha did this.
i will check wich book it was in and post the quote here.
Originally posted by Olli
well, i don´t think it´s in "rise and fall of a dragonking". it is mentioned to tithian by one of the heads( sascha or wyan).
Nope, it's not at all in one of the PP books. It's in "Rise & Fall", and is something that Hamanu comments on, not something that Sacha & Wyan tells Tithian, as Tithian at that point is "one with the storm". This is something that several of us have covered, reviewed, and re-read the novels on repeatedly. All Mach was saying is that you have your source wrong, and that this is a topic that has been beated to death a few times on these forums.
Just double checking now to make sure I can indeed post it, and it's quite extensive.
Athas.org will be receiving a copy too.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Speaking of Lynn Abbey, I've just got done speaking with her over the weekend and I've got some interesting information.
Just double checking now to make sure I can indeed post it, and it's quite extensive.
Athas.org will be receiving a copy too.
Er, does "wow" cover it? Can't wait to see this...
the heads of wyan and sascha did this
by one of the heads (sascha or wyan)
Der Name würde nun doch sehr deutsch klingen, oder? Da könnte man ja Kalak auch in Karl und Hamanu in Hartmut umbenennen... :D
Ist nicht böse gemeint, hat mich nur zum schmunzeln gebracht ;)
...und wenn Gott würfelt, dann nur Kritsche Treffer!
...I had to translate it just to see it tho...
...I should have worked harder at learning German when I was in Germany.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Wow, and I thought I was sarcastic.
...I had to translate it just to see it tho...
...I should have worked harder at learning German when I was in Germany.
Hmmm, guess my translator sucks..
Which one are you using xlorep? I'm using freetranslation.com, heh
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Hmmm, guess my translator sucks..
Which one are you using xlorep? I'm using freetranslation.com, heh
The first one that works. I do a google search every time I need a translator, haven't found one that really made me go "wow, I need to bookmark that".
I get the gist of it.
I know a few words, but not enough to make even one sentence, heh.
Where did you live in Germany (and when) ?
Originally posted by Elonarc
It is an honor for me to get such a comment from you, xlorep.
Where did you live in Germany (and when) ?
'97 - '98: Wiesbaden
'99 - '00: Baumholder (about 30 minutes from Kaiserslautern)
I miss Germany. It was a hard decision to leave and come back to the States. Sometimes I wonder if it was the right decision hehe...
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Speaking of Lynn Abbey, I've just got done speaking with her over the weekend and I've got some interesting information.
Just double checking now to make sure I can indeed post it, and it's quite extensive.
Athas.org will be receiving a copy too.
Come on. I'm not getting any younger. Nor older, since I became a T'liz, but that is another story for another time...
So, Nyt, can you at least hint at what Lynn spoke with you about?
Originally posted by erasmus1634
Come on. I'm not getting any younger. Nor older, since I became a T'liz, but that is another story for another time...
So, Nyt, can you at least hint at what Lynn spoke with you about?
Well, she is currently trying to get ahold of some old TSR reps to see if it's ok to post her stuff to other sites.
Also asked her about the space halfling invasion and I got some interesting stuff on that too.
Not at all as cooky as I thought, but still something I'm a little hesistant to like.
Keep the patience.
Off topic: BTW Nyt, did you get that thing I sent you? It was a pretty large file.