I´ve been searching my old magazines and books for some info on the etheral ships for my new campaing and an idea struck me (literally, blasted piles o'books...): has anyone tryed using spelljammer-like ships in a Planescape setting? With all the Arcane/Mercane running loose why not?
I´ve had some very basic ideias on how to use them (trading post in some of the planes a la Rock of Braal, ship sized portals to ease merchandise transport between planes all controled/runned by the Arcane of course) but nothing so elaborate. Anyone would like to help me smooth this idea?
Thanks all
Iceshard
Also, Mercane/Arcane have an unexplained fear of Sigil. They won't enter the city willingly, and if they happen to find themselves stepping into the city of doors they'll attempt to flee by way of the quickest portal out, regardless of its endpoint. Thus the mercane/arcane being the largest spelljamming users get little exposure in the city central to the setting.
Also the mercane/arcane have tons of competition on the outer planes, either from the Merkhant sect, the Planar Trade Consortium, the Free League (in Tradegate), or the fiends on the lower planes. They play second fiddle in most business transactions on the outer planes it seems. Wildspace however is the prime market for the mercane/arcane, it just had little exposure in PS for the reasons above.
I've used mercane/arcane in my own campaign, as middle-men, flunkies and public faces for a group of Yugoloths who didn't care to have their names attached to certain actions. I also had them in possession of an inoperable spelljammer ship that saw some use later in the campaign, just not in the normal way.
My first double post!!!!
Not as nice as thought :whatsthis
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Well the mercane are indeed around in Planescape, along with spelljamming. However PS was less focused on the prime than it was with the other planes and so spelljamming, being confined to the prime, was given only passing mention.
My idea was to end the "spelljammer on the prime only" situation.
Also, Mercane/Arcane have an unexplained fear of Sigil. They won't enter the city willingly, and if they happen to find themselves stepping into the city of doors they'll attempt to flee by way of the quickest portal out, regardless of its endpoint. Thus the mercane/arcane being the largest spelljamming users get little exposure in the city central to the setting.
Hmmm...I usually do not play in Sigil. My games tend to be focused in other areas of the planes. I´ve fogotten about that line. That is certainlly a most usefull bit of info.
Also the mercane/arcane have tons of competition on the outer planes, either from the Merkhant sect, the Planar Trade Consortium, the Free League (in Tradegate), or the fiends on the lower planes. They play second fiddle in most business transactions on the outer planes it seems. Wildspace however is the prime market for the mercane/arcane, it just had little exposure in PS for the reasons above.
My idea was that the Mercane controlled some large portals that oppened into the Wildspace and that this portals could be used to pass entire ships, giving them a diferent edge on the PS/Prime connections.
Again, I usually play my games with a lot of trips to the prime and this is something my players would certainly like (As a side note we have been playing a Pirates of the Caribean game for 10 years now — we really love ships, piracy and the like)
Iceshard
In fact there was one instance of an illithid squid ship being brought into Sigil through a portal to the Great Market. (not flown in, that's not possible)
But I can see some fun incorporations of spelljamming and the planes beyond the prime:
Imagine the Tanar'ri or the Doomguard with a spelljamming Ship of Chaos...
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Oh it could be done cetainly, and I like the idea. The one point that I think hampers the Arcane/Mercane from expanding (besides competition) is that spelljammer ships only work as intended within the confines of Wildspace. The portal idea works very though.
Maybe it could work on almost empty planes, like the Astral and the Ethereal. Or it could work normally on some planes if you go high enough. Hmmm....
In fact there was one instance of an illithid squid ship being brought into Sigil through a portal to the Great Market. (not flown in, that's not possible)
What a sigth it must have been....:D
And by all, what was it doing there?
But I can see some fun incorporations of spelljamming and the planes beyond the prime:
Imagine the Tanar'ri or the Doomguard with a spelljamming Ship of Chaos...
Lots of plot hooks I see on this one......
Originally posted by Iceshard
Maybe it could work on almost empty planes, like the Astral and the Ethereal. Or it could work normally on some planes if you go high enough. Hmmm....
What a sigth it must have been....:D
And by all, what was it doing there?
Lots of plot hooks I see on this one......
Well the spelljammers only work because of the phlogiston on the prime, which is notably lacking anywhere else in the multiverse. *shrug*
And the illithid squidship was there because some berk wanted to buy one. (he only intended to buy 'squid' as in the seafood. He got jumbled up and nearly stuck his faction with the bill before convincing some drunken Doomguard members to buy it from him and take up a life of piracy on the prime. They loved it, thought it the greatest idea since burning down buildings in the city, and bought it from him.)
Planejammers would certainly add an entire new diamension(pun intended) to Planescape, and would probably be especially useful on the Inner Planes in particular. It would also add new elements to certain Planescape staples(Fiendish Navies in the Bloodwar for instance), possibly a new section in Sigil, the Dock Ward(the ship-sized portals still require keys of coarse), and most importantly, would add an alternitive to Planewalking(pardon the pun).
But Planejammers would vary widely in form, from grotisque, Fiendish Destroyers, to replendant Celestial Battleships.
Now that I think about it, If 'Planejammers' were to become part of Planescape, I'd imagine Sigil sort of turning into a "Deep Space Nine".
The Mercane do have Planar ties, but most likely they are affiliated with the PTC or some othe Planar costers.
As mentioned, the Githyanki already have a sort of "spelljammer" type ship, and I'd like to add the demon "ship of chaos" as another potential pre-existing 'jammer.
How 'bout a Rilmani Man-o-War?
Man, I love the idea of Active Neutrality...Cheers,
Zeb
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
Well Planar Spelljamming vessels, lets call them Planejammers, have been around to a very limited extent, but not in the way you have in mind Iceshard. I believe, if I remember correctly, that the Githyanki possess ships called Voidjammers, which are escentually Spelljammers modified to operate mainly on the Astral Plane.
I seem to recall that in the Illithiad adventure (part 3), there was a picture from a fight on the astral plane which included githyanki riding red dragons and Illithids flying Nautiloid spelljammers.
goes back to lurking
--
AeoN2
Edit: or perhaps this even was on the ethereal plane... because it was called an ethergap I remember in the adventure... don't have the book right here though so can't check. In any case interesting crossover.
1. All Prime Spelljammers can be refitted with a Planar Helm, a rare device magically enchanted by the Planeshift spell. This effectively turns them into Planejammers, with one limitation: The Planeshift only allowes travel to and from two Planes. For every Plane that the Ship can travel to, the Planar Helm must be enchanted with one Planeshift spell.
For example, to get a Planejammer capable of traveling to and from nine of the Outer Planes, the Planar Helm must be enchanted 10 times, one for each Outer Plane, and once for the Astral.
2. Planejammers built on the Outer or Inner Planes have the ability to enter portals and can travel in all but the worst enviriments without protection. Each Planejammer crew typically has a mage capable of casting the neccesary spells to create portals using a varient of the Planeshift spell.
Navies of the Blood-War
3. Fiendish Planejammers are a new phenominon on the Lower Planes. But nevertheless, Fiendish ships are superior to Prime Spelljammers, as they are usually crafted out of fiendish metal alloys such as green steel. These enormious battleships/carriers typically carry hundreds of aerial fiends such as Vrocks and Abisha into battle, ready to deploy at a moments notice(Though alot less so for the Tanar'ric Vrocks and other flying Tanar'ri)
Also, Baatorian Battleships generally are armed with air to ground weaponry, such as Fireball or Acid Cannons, and can devastate ground based enemy troops.
Fortunately for the Tanar'ri, their larger numbers enabled them to build larger fleets of smaller ships, and these usually engage the larger, less numerious Baatorian Vessels. The Tanar'ri also possess Ships of Chaos, which serve as psychological weapons against the more organized Baatezu, Ships of Chaos are vurnerable to attacks by other vessels, since they depend on their crew for defense.
Also, since the Tanar'ri were the first ones to employ a navy, their ships tend to be at least alittle more advanced then their Baatezu counterparts.
Yugoloths possess superior ships to both Tanar'ri and Baatezu. Typically, Yugoloth vessels are faster, more armored, and better armed then ships built by other fiends, the Loth's ships are crewed by Yugoloth mercanarys which work for ether side, whoever pays the most. Yugoloth ships add a wild card to any fiendish naval engagement, as they sometimes change sides in the middle of a battle, if it suits them.
Gehreleths don't possess a navy for say, however, Shators possess slow personal vessels which they use to sail between the Orbs of Carceri.
Other Races
Celestials: of the Celestials, the Archons, Aasimon and Eladrin are the only ones that possess navies. Archons maintain enormious fleets of Planejammers of their own design at the very top layer of Mt. Celestia. The purpose of this fleet is unknown, by some say the fleet is far from complete, and when it is completed, the Blood War will end, and a massive Inter-Planar conflict between the forces of Good and Evil will begin. Archon vessels main weapons seem to be "Purity Cannons", weapons which fire consentrated bursts of Light which heavily damages any creatures of non-good alignment that they strike.
Celestial vessels have a replendant, "feathery" feel to them, while some others are vessels composed of radiant yellow or white light.
Aasimon Agathathons maintain fleets of ships, much like the Archons, although these function more as troop transports than anything. Aasimon fleets usually rely on Devas and Plantars for protection.
Eladrin possess ships vaguely resembling Spelljamming ships used by Prime Elves. These small fleets guard Arborea's various layers from fiendish and Slaad attacks, acting only as a defensive force.
Slaad:
Slaad are largely far to disorganized to possess a navy. What ships they do possess however, are far more deadly than the race's chaotic nature would suggest.
Slaad ships are big, bizzare looking vessels controlled by Grey or Death Slaad. What makes them deadly is their "Chaos Cannons", protectile weapons that fling pure chaos matter at targets. This chaos has a distablizing effect on anything it comes into contact with.
Modrons:
Modrons possess a highly organized and efficient naval force captained by Modrons that have advanced beyond the Base ranks. Typical armnaments include even numbers of automatic, repeating crossbows that are launched in an orderly, structured manner. All Modron ships are geometrical in shape.
Rilmani:
The Rilmani possess the most advanced Planejammers out of all the Planes. Typically, Rilmani ships are armed with an activatable field of Anti-Magic, which desrupts magic used by their enemies. It is said that Rilmani weapondry is incredibly dangerious. One eyewitness claimed that one vessel's armnament consisted of cannons that fire objects similiar to Spheres of Annilation!
And having to power a Planar Helm with a Planeshift for every jump is excessive. Just make it a Wonderous item, like they made spelljamming helms in the d20 minigame Shadows of the Spider Moon.
And having to power a Planar Helm with a Planeshift for every jump is excessive. Just make it a Wonderous item, like they made spelljamming helms in the d20 minigame Shadows of the Spider Moon.
That is why the ideia of ship sized gates is a better choice. This way you can control the access to other planes.
BTW, I really liked the ship descriptions you gave, Sword_Of_Geddon. I will sure use some of them in my upcoming game.
This way you have travel times and also that you do not take away the benefits of sigil portal travel?
As for Planejammers making Sigil's portals obsolete, they wouldn't, not really. Planejammers are much more expensive than simply taking a portal. For one, you need a crew, two, someone capable of piloting it using the Planar Helm, and three, in order to get your hands on one, you need alot of cash...
As for Githzerai Planejammers, I'd imagine two varieties in their fleets:
1. Anarch Battle Barges:
These ships serve as the first line of defense on Limbo against Githyanki or Mind Flarer attacks. They usually don't possess cannons or arrow launchers, but rather, imploy the chaos-shaping Anarchs as their weapondry. The Anarchs will use their abilities to shape the chaos of limbo in an area around enemie troops in such a way as to destroy them(materializing a volcano or acid lake for instance).
2. Rrakma Attack Cruisers:
These ships serve as quick, fast strike craft usually impowered to shift from limbo directly to the Astral for fast guerilla strikes at Githyanki targets. They are armed with either crossbows, catapults, or cannons, (depending on the availible of Gunpowder weapondry in your campaign). Also, these ships typically have Githzerai Rrakma bands on standby to board other vessels and claim them in the name of the Githzerai's king Zerthimon.
With the Outer Planes, especially in Planescape, one must ask yourself: what purpose does the ship serve? The traditional purposes of a ship are to move people & cargo. With ready portals, spells, and the fact that many, many planars can plane shift &/or fly, this role is lessened, if not outright removed. That means ships must find different roles.
Indeed, planejammers can and would be much different than standard ships. In fact, I'd argue the whole ship could be a single, magical device, or perhaps even a creature. With the Outer Planes, one can let his or her imagination run wild. Instead of a galleon, have a creature (a titantic hawk, whale, or even hart) with buildings strapped to its back (an example of this was in the recent Dungeon Adventure, Beast of Burden). Or perhaps even use the *belly* of the whale as your ship, using spells and druids to make the beast go where you want it to go.
Another idea might be creative use of dimensional spaces. For example, a flying galleon might have every door have a permanent Magnificent Mansion spell on it, so the whole ship has two dozen such mansions! Celestials might use such a ship for entertaining guests, others might use it as a mobile town, while the fiends might use it to carry a vast army. Or perhaps the ship protects a permanent portal back to a hopeplane, so say the fiends could use a ship as a mobile base to launch massive armies.
Anyways, that's just some initial thoughts.
Based on the material on Planewalker.com, you couldn't get out of Sigil in a "planejammer." There's nothing surrounding the Cage but an endless void.
But if you were to get the planejammer through a portal—for example, one to Elemental Air, the Astral, or the aforementioned Ethereal—you'd be set. (Come to think of it, a planejammer would be a nice thing to have on Elemental Air.)
-Qit
Originally posted by Qit el-Remel
Based on the material on Planewalker.com, you couldn't get out of Sigil in a "planejammer." There's nothing surrounding the Cage but an endless void.
Well there nothing or nothingness over the rim of Sigil. What that actually is or means is an open question. It's almost like observing an abstract concept that you've never seen before. Like asking a man who see's only black and white to describe the color purple to another person after he's just seen purple for the first time. It's something mortals or even perhaps immortals just cannot fully comprehend. It's another of the mysteries of Sigil, treat it in your own game as you wish, though nobody has ever come back after jumping over the side.
I'd treat it in my own game as being a one way trip to utter oblivion, but that wasn't included in the Sigil material because it removes too many tools for the DM. I've had some fun ideas though for a plot involving a man climbing over the rim in Suicide Alley from the other side...
I like the Planejammer idea, and there's certainly the Githyanki Astral Carracks and similar ships of sorts in the Ethereal.
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
Planejammers would come in handy in almost all the Inner Planes(and Limbo, Carceri, Gehenna etc.) actually. But I agree with Nightdruid in that almost all Outer Planar vessels would'nt find much use outside warfare, hense, the war-oriented Planejammer navies I preposed in my above posts.
Well, didn't mean to imply most ships would be warships, just that ships would be *different*
Most might be pretty unique, actually. Some ideas for "ships":Town-jammer: A galleon on the outside, inside is a demiplane where a whole town exists. The advantage to this planejammer is that in some areas, it might be benefital to be nomadic. Some races, such as the Tso, might use a similiar concept.
Palace-ship: A ship that uses the "every door leads to a Magnificent Mansion" idea I outlined before. A mobile palace does have advantages in that it would be hard to track (and thus teleport into).
Giant Hawk (upper planes): A big hawk/roc with a hodah on its back. The advantage is that its faster than standard flying, so can reach areas under fiendish attack quicker. The claws of the hawk shine with holy magic, causing damage to any fiend in X feet of the hawk.
Fiendish Man-O-War: An enormous portugese Man-O-War, with 100 tenticles on the bottom and a citadel for a body. It hovers over Bloodwar battlefields, using its tenticles to scoop up lesser fiends and devour them. It can decimate whole legions through this ravenous feeding.
As warships, standard ships offer little adventage when used against critters than can fly &/or teleport. However, I can see ships operating well as "flying fortresses", either being very large or having dimensional spaces to allow them to carry vast armies, far more than their size should allow. Also, another source for ideas for planejammers might be Q1 Queen of Demonweb; Lloth was running around in the original planejammer, a spider-shaped ship right out of some steampunk nightmare :D
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
Cool Nightdruid. Your ideas fit into Planescape pretty well. I especially liked your "Fiendish Man O' War" idea.
Heh, I kinda like the palace-ship better ;)
Thats actually what I had in mind, a ship that can fly and Planeshift at will. Come to think of it, has there been any attempt at making a Magic the Gathering D&D campaign setting? Now that would be cool. I especially would like to see a Planescape/M:TG crossover, that would be something.
I was of that opinion before, but ever since reading Zelazny's Amber Chronickles, I'm even more in favour of some way to walk the planes without need for instant transportation spells. Instead much like you can often traverse the layers of the Abyss or Acheron by making use of specifics (use the Styx, fly down to the next layer), this should be a more viable choice for general planewalking IMO. Effectively one member of the group would make a planeswalking skill check and lead the party to the edge of the current plane (which isn't far away spatially, but removed in terms of belief, of state-of-mind), from there to the 'next' layer/plane and finally to their destination. They'd still need to move to the desired place on that plane on foot/whatever. Of course there'd still be portals as shortcuts and Sigil would be as important as ever, being the largest hub of shortcuts in existance, but you don't NEED to use them and for some places there only IS the 'hard way'.
I think, it would be fun to sometimes have to literally descend into the pit that is the Abyss and spend days climbing out again. Of course this technique could then be applied to all kinds of vehicles, some of them natively sailing the astral, others walking on animated feet and thus taking only walkable routes through the planes, etc
Actually, that's, what I'd try to do, when doing a planescape game of my own .
I used some ideias here on a game I ran a few months ago and boy it was FUN!! :D
The game was just two sessions long (blasted real life and its tendency to meddle on game affairs... :mad
Well, back on how we used them:
— the jammers are used in the Ethereal as a major way to speed thing up between isles of protomater, in exploration and in general transport event between planes\demiplanes\wherever. It is 10x faster to go via ship than it is to go walking. Besides you can bring a lot more food and trading cargo with you;
— ship combat is like in the Dungeon article but with the limitation on sight range almost as in the Ethereal. In a rush — it is late around here — eyesight range is as far as the ship lenght counting from the ship edges (that gave rise to one of the best ship to ship combat we had, lots of fun playing hide an seek :D )
The game went well and the ships rules worked fine. Not too much to say beyond that but it is a beggining. If life permits us to continue I will post the news to you.