Adapted Silt Race?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

jaanos

Feb 20, 2004 17:27:09
I'm not one for expanding the setting, not at least beyond fan-fiction, but one of my players came up with a nifty idea:

A race of silt-dwelers, who live in the sea of silt, much like sea elves or shaugin.

Haven't fleshed it out beyond that. What i'm looking from the Darksun community is some feedback (and my current thoughts)

Is it a good idea / bad idea?

*undecided*

Is it feasabile?

*Yes, other silt creatures exist (silt horrors etc, why not sentient races?*

Possible attributes of the race?

Race to base them off?

Plus anything else you can think off. Makes crossing the sea of silt a whole lot more dangerous if there is a race that lives underneath...
#2

zombiegleemax

Feb 20, 2004 19:13:45
I allow just about any semi intelligent humanoid race into my campaign, so I think my general racial options tops out at around 25+. I say, bring it on!

My group was in the process of fleshing out the pros and cons of using a silt dwelling race (one based on the deep fallen race from the Stardrive Alien Compendium). We had come to the conclusion that the ability to live in silt is comparable to an aarakocra's flight ability. I've not done much else with the idea, but have meant to incorporate it with my own expansion.
#3

jaanos

Feb 20, 2004 19:36:09
Cool - perhaps we could nut out some details between to two of us?
#4

zombiegleemax

Feb 20, 2004 19:57:40
Sure, I'm game.

Mind you, I don't crunch numbers. That's more like work and I avoid doing work as much of that as I can ;)

As for ideas, descriptions, etc, I'm all for it. I'll kick the idea around for the night and post up something in a little while.
#5

jaanos

Feb 20, 2004 20:02:23
No worries - idea for base race:

Some form of reptilian creature, maybe based on lizard men? I was thinking they would have pretty hard scales, some form off tremor sense, darkvision - poor eyesight in normal light.

They activley worship the para-elemental plain of Silt, but are not nessecerily evil, as this is simply where they live.

They have psionics, clerical magic and maybe magic as well... thoughts?

Lawful organization, i was thinking of cities and so forth, maybe some 'nomad' versions of them as well (same race, different favoured class)

HEY! idea! the "under-silt" could become something akin to the FR underdark! wait... one step at a time... let's get the race nutted out first.

Suggested names:

Sithgorians
Norgathords

???
#6

jihun-nish

Feb 20, 2004 23:17:47
If your looking for a good reason why although we have (the athasians) never encountered the *silters* but are now is because of their sudden curiosity of why is there now flow of water gorging the silt sea bed. Remember the Curelean storm!!!!!
#7

Kamelion

Feb 21, 2004 3:22:22
You could have them sonehow related to the silt runners (intelligent reptilian humanoids with the ability to tun across silt). Perhaps your silt-dwellers were silt runners who ended up adapting to live beneath the silt, as opposed to along its shores..,?
#8

zombiegleemax

Feb 21, 2004 10:14:50
Nice ideas all around.

I still have the whole issue of 'swimming' in silt. The nature of silt makes it virtually impossible for something to physically swim in it without some serious design modifications. Basically, swimming in such an environment would require the being to be able to displace at least 1/3 its body size in silt in the direction of travel in order to achieve any actual momentum, and even then, progress would still be quite slow. The ruktoi comes close, but at 20' long, doesn't make for an easy to translate PC race.

Possible design concepts:

Massive webbed hands. Assuming the humanoid is 6' average height, the hands and fingers would be increadibly disproportionate, probably along the line of 2'-3' long. Standing upright, the hands and arms may very well reach the ground. The game effect to watch out for would be a natural reach bonus. The creatyre would likely have a very high strength bonus as well, requiring powerful arm muscles to move silt.

Reversed tail propulsion. A shrimp (yummy) uses its scoop-like tail to travel backwards through water. Something like that may be able to swim in silt as well. Going this route, the entire creature could be a crustacean, complete with shell, eyes on stalks, etc. I recall something similar in a 2e monster compendium, but can't for the life of me find it. I'm not sure if I'd give it pincer like hands due to the limitations, and I've alredy enough headaches dealing with four armed thri-kreen.

More later on. Must clean house now
#9

jihun-nish

Feb 21, 2004 17:13:42
The creatyre would likely have a very high strength bonus as well, requiring powerful arm muscles to move silt.

Althought on the surface, silt is very volatile. I could well imagine that in the *deep* meter and meter of silt as its toll on the bottom silt level. It would still be lighter then water but more then mere volatile powder.

As for the para-elemental silt cleric. I would like one of them spells to be a sort of silt shaping spell or spell-like ability( similar to stone shape) creating entire villages devoid of silt but everything made out of it( house, some tools (with some sort of compact silt-shape spell) The same spell(silt shape) could be quite effective for silt-sea bed scavenging.(clearing the bed's surface for eons old wonders (coral reefs--now dead--, caves, life-shaped artifact in stasis--waiting for water:which is noow within reach--

My2 bits
#10

zombiegleemax

Feb 22, 2004 1:36:43
Althought on the surface, silt is very volatile. I could well imagine that in the *deep* meter and meter of silt as its toll on the bottom silt level. It would still be lighter then water but more then mere volatile powder

What you may be thinking of would be called displacement. Water is quite easily displaced and can provide its own momentum. You can push against water and create your own propulsion. Silt does not displace like water. When you push against silt, the displaced silt provides no momentum. You would neccessarily be swimming as much as you would be 'crawling' through it.

Another problem with silt: lack of visibility. Not just in the deep ocean analogy, but even the normal senses wouldn't be of much help. Two creatures could be less than a few yards or meters away from eachother and have no known means of detecting one another. Water conducts sound waves and has the ability to rapidly transfer foreign chemicals into another creature's sense of taste or smell. Silt has none of this. Ultrasonic or subsonic frequencies may have a much better chance at traveling a short distance through the silt. Its likely then that various creatures have developed such sonic abilities (as communications means, not simply cool 'attacks' or 'abilities'), but the ranges within the silt would be very limited. Outside of the silt though, the ranges would be quite vast.

Problem number 1001 is lack of building materials. What would a creature use to build with in the deep silt? Silt is too flaky to compact into mud, even near mudflats. I like the idea of a silt shape style spell, but that would then lend to a huge social reliance upon silt clerics. Couple that idea with pith, the living porous stone that the ancient rhulisti used to manipulate life. Pith always sounded a lot like coral to me, but where as coral is the excerement of the micro organisms, pith is the organisms themselves, simple multi-cellular shelled organisms coupled together. Perhaps pith has still survived the brown tide and the receding waters, adapting rapidly to the changes in the environment. So, the solution I'm proposing is that the silt dwelling creatures (who really need a name btw) use clerical magic to alter pith, creating their structures from it (though they cannot create new life from pith, only alter how it grows and shape it to suit their needs). You still have the issue of social reliance then on a small group of individuals, but alas, it seems to not be helped.
#11

Grummore

Feb 22, 2004 11:35:57
Originally posted by Kamelion
You could have them sonehow related to the silt runners (intelligent reptilian humanoids with the ability to tun across silt). Perhaps your silt-dwellers were silt runners who ended up adapting to live beneath the silt, as opposed to along its shores..,?

I stated, a good 6 months ago or more, when afghan first released some part of is project, that the silt runner might be mutated goblins (from the pristine tower or else).

What do you think of this idea?
#12

Kamelion

Feb 22, 2004 11:51:40
Originally posted by Grummore
I stated, a good 6 months ago or more, when afghan first released some part of is project, that the silt runner might be mutated goblins (from the pristine tower or else).

What do you think of this idea?

Oh yeah, so you did Someone else (Mach?) had a similar idea about gnomes undergoing mass mutation into, um, something (hej-kin? I forget). Very cool concept, and with good precedence in the tulks, f.ex.
#13

zombiegleemax

Feb 25, 2004 17:04:14
Yes, and it was an idea that actually made it into the material I wrote. I'll give you a mention in the credits Grummore. In fact, it was Jaanos who came up with the name 'sigorthian' but I think he's already in the credits... or will be as soon as the finalized pages go up.

Have got to sit down in the next couple of days and write the last couple of pages.

Anyway, I'm rather pleased with the sigorthians as a silt-dwelling race goes. Kind of inspired by the old Doctor Who sea devils somehow.
#14

jaanos

Feb 25, 2004 17:45:38
Wow, i honored to be in the credits, thanks mate. OK here are some more thoughts:

* Like the silt shape ability - make it an inate one?

* Movement through silt - possibilites are large webbed hands, tail, some form of quasi-levitation (psionic) that works automatically, supernatural / extraordinary ability, spell-like ability or completley unusual anatomy.

* Mutated Coral forms the basis of vegetation life forms on the bottom of the sea of silt, feeding off heat and consuming silt. When it dies, it turns back into silt. Too much water causes a rotting disease similar to chitten rot... hence the water from the cerculean storm is causing problems....

* Distinct differences between males and females. One gender normaly silt clerics, the other psions, psy warriors or rangers to hunt creatures from the deep silt.

* looking at something reptillian or crab-like.... tremor sense / blind vision looking good as well

* can breathe air, but requires increasingly dificult Fort DC saves each hour, or begin choking.

* Status of Magic?

Any more idea's?

Originally posted by Afghan
Yes, and it was an idea that actually made it into the material I wrote. I'll give you a mention in the credits Grummore. In fact, it was Jaanos who came up with the name 'sigorthian' but I think he's already in the credits... or will be as soon as the finalized pages go up.

Have got to sit down in the next couple of days and write the last couple of pages.

Anyway, I'm rather pleased with the sigorthians as a silt-dwelling race goes. Kind of inspired by the old Doctor Who sea devils somehow.

#15

zombiegleemax

Feb 26, 2004 0:23:43
* can breathe air, but requires increasingly dificult Fort DC saves each hour, or begin choking.

This would almost entirely preclude the race's use as a player option. I highly doubt many people would want to play a race totally confined to the silt sea, at least, not without a good deal of background work to liven the place up a bit.

From Jaanos' email to me (and response, meant to post this here for community debate, simply forgot till now):

My view of these creatures is that they would be quiet strong, not as smart - maybe there is a difference between the sexes, like drow? Thinking small, nuggety creatures (5ft tall roughly) with remnants of a tail... a beak of sorts... your thoughts?

RE:
As for the ideas, not too bad. I kinda like there being a difference between the sexes, and having just recently referenced both Larry Niven's Ringworld as well as Orson Scott Card's Ender Cycle, both of which feature a race with very extreme differences between the sexes. Niven's cat-like kzin have evolved where the female of the species is still animalistic; only the males possess a sense of sentience and society. I wouldn't mind seeing this kind of thing at all, with one sex being physically and mentally inferior. It would lend to some very interesting social ideas.
#16

dawnstealer

Feb 26, 2004 10:58:47
The Hej-kin thing was me. As far as silt-races go, I'd actually say stick to something similar to squids, something with an air-sac so it could "dangle in the silt." Then you don't need all the special magical abilities to move through that element. Also think about the usefulness of arms and legs in an element that really doesn't need them (especially legs). Mutations are fine, though: think of a big head filled with gas and 2-4 arms hanging from below. Maybe they have special gills that let them breath "undersilt." A history of this race would be very interesting.
#17

jihun-nish

Feb 26, 2004 20:15:13
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
The Hej-kin thing was me. As far as silt-races go, I'd actually say stick to something similar to squids, something with an air-sac so it could "dangle in the silt." Then you don't need all the special magical abilities to move through that element. Also think about the usefulness of arms and legs in an element that really doesn't need them (especially legs). Mutations are fine, though: think of a big head filled with gas and 2-4 arms hanging from below. Maybe they have special gills that let them breath "undersilt." A history of this race would be very interesting.

Hmmm. Now imagine an Illithid.... a beheaded mind succer still very much alive with strange apendiges where his neck should be connected to its shoulders. Bbrrrrrrrr.
#18

zombiegleemax

Feb 27, 2004 1:42:00
Maybe they have special gills that let them breath "undersilt."

This is something that has bugged me for some time, but I also understand that I'm being overly sensitive about realism here. The analogy between silt and water is a complete misconception. Silt has far more in common with a sand dune than it does a sea of water (granted, the particle grains are considerably smaller). I tend to make the innacurate analogy between the two myself at times.

In oder for something to breath in silt, it simply has to block the particle flow into its lungs. Any sufficient filter would do the trick. An animal that burrows in sand doesn't 'breath in' the sand, extract oxygen, then breath the sand out. Fish-like animals would simply not be very feasible in the silt sea. Boyancy may count for something, so an animal that can make itself very light through either internal gasses or even just large air sacs (as mentioned above) may work, but it would be lacking in mobility as described above without any further modifications (you may be able to float along in water, but not silt, too much resistance). Air sacs would at least enable the animal to maintain a stable altitude in the silt, but certainly not float at the surface level without either some kind of arcane/psionic assistance, or a heavy sense of disbelief in physics and biology.

Sorry, just some rambling thoughts.
#19

dawnstealer

Feb 27, 2004 9:57:04
Actually, the silt is much, much finer than sand. If you were to take a grain of sand, break it in half, then break that in half, then break that in half, you'd have a large grain of silt. I've been in a few dust storms and sand storms and "drowning" in sand, unless you are actually under it and simply suffocate, would actually require you to actively swallow sand "down the wrong pipe."

The fact that there is the "grey death" rule, and the fact that you can suffocate as silt fills your lungs just by walking next to a silt estuary, suggests that silt is extremely fine; a simple filter simply wouldn't do it. The reason I bring up gills is just as an analogous example: fish are able to seperate oxygen from aerated water. The only way to do the same in silt would be through a similar process, or one in which the critter could simply absorb the silt and not "drown" on it (like silt drakes, sink worms, ruktoi, and so on).

Aside from gills, a critter could simply have a way of filtering silt out of its lungs (like a hacking cough, horking up a "silt ball" much like a cat horks up a hair ball. Have to admit, that would be kind of cool). Imagine a half-reptillian offshoot of an aquatic elf with big airsacs that allow it to float somewhere in the silt, horking up silt balls while it hunts the unsuspecting silt skimmer above.

God, I love Athas!
#20

zombiegleemax

Feb 27, 2004 15:25:39
Actually, the silt is much, much finer than sand. If you were to take a grain of sand, break it in half, then break that in half, then break that in half, you'd have a large grain of silt. I've been in a few dust storms and sand storms and "drowning" in sand, unless you are actually under it and simply suffocate, would actually require you to actively swallow sand "down the wrong pipe."

A simpler analogy is flour.

I was simply addressing that silt has more physical properties in common with earth than water (which seems to be more of a prevailing idea amongst some people with references to creatures being able to swim through the silt medium). Also, sorry to digress; I had meant to give you props on the idea of gills/filtering of silt, but after rereading, I seem to have almost reversed the point. My bad.

What I was trying to get across is that you can't really treat silt, even if there is a 'sea' sized amount of it, like a body of water. Creatures can't really swim or float about in it, at least not without a good touch of fantasy in the mix. Breathing, seeing, and simply living in silt requires either a slightly different approach for the sake of realism, or a healthy amount of fantasy tweaking of the creatures. Sorry if the point was lost . . . its what happens when you post a rambling train wreck of thought.
#21

dawnstealer

Feb 27, 2004 16:22:05
A simpler analogy is flour.

I'll buy that. My argument is that the silt is much less densely-packed than sand is. It's basically "dense dust" that's managed to all settle in one place (Silt Sea and its estuaries). While it's not water and doesn't share pretty much anything with liquid.

I'll back this up with descriptions of traveling on the silt. Anything placed on the surface of the silt sea simply drops through, which suggests that the silt is much closer to a very dense fog than anything else. That's my take, at least. Taking this into account, floating things make sense. If people could actually walk on the silt in any manner short of levitation, I'd agree with your take that the creature would have to burrow to be successful.
#22

zombiegleemax

Feb 28, 2004 13:38:22
Anything placed on the surface of the silt sea simply drops through, which suggests that the silt is much closer to a very dense fog than anything else.

Another interesting trait: the ground level that each thing dropped into the silt would stop on would vary based on its weight. Lighter things would stop sooner than heavier things, while something with a large surface area, even one that weighs a good amount, would also stop dropping sooner.

Okay, back to the idea of creating a race.

So far: high strength, developed culture would mean at least normal intelligence, dependence on clerics might indicate a high wisdom, but also a lower charisma. Harsh living conditions may also give rise to a high constitution.

Add on such things as the ability to breath in silt, tremor sense, etc, and your looking at yet another race with some LA adjustments.

Any thoughts on some cultural aspects?
#23

zmaj

Feb 29, 2004 0:21:50
I can't remember where I read it, but I seem to recall something about how there were areas in the Sea of Silt that water pooled under the silt? Maybe in Earth, Air, Fire, and Water?

Ahh found it, Page 40, Column 1, Paragraph 2.

"Water collects and pools at the bottom of vast silt basins,
and those pools become thick, viscous mud. Four-fifths of
the surfaces of the silt seas are silt. Silt is gray and dry, the
texture of loose powder. The careful balance between moisture
and silt must be maintained, and the silt spirits fear
that too much rainfall will turn their fodder into thick, black
sludge. Fortunately for them, rain is so scarce that there is
little chance of this occurring"........

2 Paragraphs later

Pools of water drain into the encroaching silt, and this
temporarily retards expansion as the liquid is absorbed by
the dust and turns to mud. Eventually, most of the water will
sink to the bottom and become trapped forever. The natural
cycle will cease and the lost water will never see the surface
again."

Now what if they lived deep under the silt making thier homes near these pools of water. The whole area hollowed out ala The Sunken City in City by the Sea of Silt. Small tribal communities could live by the pools. Air would of course be a problem but it could be solved by creating an oasis with each pool of water. The plants do the oxygen and the silt folk the carbon dioxide.

They could be extreamly nature minded sorta like the Gulgs. New communities are founded by finding new pools of water and begining the process of hollowing out the area and planting the oasis.

Not all silt clerics are evil... there is that legend about screaming an ancient and secret name when drowning in the silt and a silt rider will appear and drag that person to the nearest island. (from the same book as above.)

Perhaps this legend came about from the lucky few who happened near a community and the ancient and secret name is that of the race. The communities would be very deep and the chances of a member of it hearing the drowning adventurer would be quite slim, and if they are xenophobic even less likely to occur.

Sorry if I rambled, I do have the tendency to do that... every once in awhile my players have to remind me details are great but enough's enough.

Oh yes, and hi everyone hehe. I read a lot here but haven't really contributed anything yet.
#24

zombiegleemax

Feb 29, 2004 0:47:40
Welcome to the 'out of luker mode' then Zmaj.

Thanks for the canon quotes. I had forgotten all about alot of that.

As for the idea of cavernous oasis, it seems workable. Fungus, moss, and lichens would be most likely in such mudcaves, as well as providing a food source. It would probably take a good amount of plant-life per individual. Space and population could also be fairly extreme social concerns as well, making for some interesting backstory. If the population begins to exceed the safe levels for the mud hollow, some of the people may leave for the sake of the community (if good aligned), be forced to relocate (if neutral), or the old and weak may be killed off (if evil). Creating a stable hollow may also have the added benefit of allowing the mud to filter water through, collecting into small pools. Hollowing near mud flats may even provide enough water to have small underground lakes.
#25

zmaj

Mar 01, 2004 1:06:40
Did a lil further research, I always believed silt was just dust myself and knew there was a reason that the Ruktoi was able to "swim" but couldn't remember. Looking in MC2 I found the refernce that they had the innate ability to levitate but it was limited to the surface of silt only. Silt horrors on the otherhand didn't have a written way of movement except tentacles. I had given them the same levitation ability.

As for the silt runners they seem to use thier webbed feet much like a real life lizard does here on earth (can't remember it's name ATM, been awhile since I watched the nature channel hehe). Both silt runners and that lizard can only run for very short distances on water/silt though.

Sink worms are also able to travel in silt, they have the ability to phase, but only for 90 feet so I don't think it helps them move to much through the silt. Not sure how exactly they manage it. They breath under the sand and silt by sucking it through thier bodies and thier gills remove minute particles of air.

These are the only good examples I could find anywhere of silt dwelling races.

If I were doing it I'd probably go with the silt runners who learned to survive deeper in the silt. Maybe they were cut off from the mainland and thier island was sinking under the silt. Lived in the caves under the island for a bit before thier shaman's began trying to find ways to alter thier tribes?

Maybe give them enhanced lung capasity or the ability to live very little air. Since the Sand Runners don't use clothing they'd probably already have a way to filter out the silt, possibly something like Magnus's in PP. While I didn't notice anything about Silt Runner's priestly abilities this offshoot would probably worship silt as stated before and maybe rely heavily on psionics. Maybe a less savage version of the silt runners like the Pterrans of Lost Scale are to the normal tribes.

New villages could be hunted out under the silt by powerful psionics/silt clerics. When traveling in the silt they'd be able to use thier abilities to sense dangers and prey. Then they use various spells and abilities to hollow out an area suitable for habitation before transporting new members there. Or perhaps they use the ability to create a series of tunnels for those who want an underdark feel to it. Under the silt there would be access to metal and ruins that have never been used or have been lost to time. Athas isn't a metal poor world, or at least it wasn't always. It's just in the Tyr region it's mostly used up.

The reason for them comming up into the Tyr region now? Use the Cerulean storm as stated earlier. Either directly or indirectly. Directly it could be washing out the villages. The rain sinks right through the silt, hits the mud (if using hardened mud to make the hollows) and disolves it. This rains silt into the villages or even washes them out with water. Indirectly all those rain clerics are hearing Tithian and trying to free him. They keep wandering over the villages and one has located and taken over a village or decided they must all be destroyed and is causing all sorts of trouble. Maybe the silt dwellers are comming up to attack all those who look like the clerics or if diplomatic enough to try and talk to those on the surface.

The silt dwellers attack could make things a bit interesting. When I left my last campaign we decided to make it a big blowout. We were all leaving for various duty stations so we figured why not.

Dregoth's day of light was well on it's way after it took over Raam. In the middle of all that the undead horde came from the south sweeping away all life. Bodach joined in sweeping north and to the west. Refugees were running north along the Ringing mountains trying to escape the undead while staying clear of the dray when they ran into the Thor-Kreen who decided to attack the Tyr region by going North around the Ringing Mountains to avoid the undead horde they had found in the south. Those that snuck past the Kreen and didn't get caught by various factions when they tried to hole up in Kurn got nailed running near Lava Gorge by nature and by the Rhul-Thaun led by Thamasku lifeshapers who've made a pact with the Priests of Flame at the direction of the ancient High Lord who's decided to bring about a new age in which halflings can prosper by first burning away all the evil of the rebirth (can we say Rajaat in disguise?, those defilers just HAD to release Tithian didn't they). The final showdown came about up at the Last Sea, nearly everything wiped out, the Cerulean storm raging under a free Tithian's control and teh direction of Rajaat.

The players used up every character in thier tree as one then another died heroicly trying to hold back thier enemies or save a few people. In the very end, down to thier final characters each they found a way to teleport the survivers to an entirely new continent where it was still nearly as bad as the Tyr region but at least they'd be able to rebuild civilization far from the undead and the kreen (Dregoth didn't last to long even if his dray did). Coulda been interesting to toss some silt dwellers into the mix as well. Give my players just one more problem to deal with entering Saragar only to find out thier last hope already had more problems then they knew. Kurn actualy managed to last longer then anyone thought it would, long enough to provide a way to the characters to get off the continent (they developed the spell but fell just as it was discovered and sent to the PCs).

Bah, now that's rambling, where was I? Oh well, a bit over the top? Yes, but we all had fun, PCs all died heroes and saviors even if they all died holding off the hordes until the spell could be cast.
#26

dawnstealer

Mar 01, 2004 17:47:56
Well done! On Athas, that's the way it should be, in my opinion.

Back to silt critters:

Ruktoi "swam" through specific levitation, using huge webbed feet to push the silt below them while levitating. Since they couldn't really breathe the silt, going under would probably suffocate them.

Pretty sure silt horrors used air sacks (like Floaters) to move through the silt. I seem to remember them moving very quickly with jets of air, so this would seem to back that theory up.

Never did get how sink worms moved through the silt, but I always assumed they went along the bottom and then burst up when a target of opportunity presented itself (kind of like a Great White), phasing or simply pushing off the thicker layer of silt.

Silt Vortexes floated through levitation, I believe.

I think the "most realistic" basis would be something similar to silt horrors, although the mud pockets brings up an interesting sidebar. If our critters lived in these mud pockets, you have to remember that there would be no air bubble above the mud: it would be silt, so the dilemma of breathing would remain the same. Breathing mud isn't much easier than breathing silt, but there is an intelligent precedent for it: bog waders. Maybe a "greater bog wader," or similar critter is called for. Maybe bog waders are to this race what slave races are to Aboleth. In short, a race created by a greater society, but trapped far away from civilization by the sea of silt.
#27

dawnstealer

Mar 01, 2004 17:51:35
Another thought: What about an athasian aboleth? That would be a terror to behold, eh?
#28

zombiegleemax

Mar 01, 2004 18:03:47
If they lived in these mud pockets, you have to remember that there would be no air bubble above the mud: it would be silt, so the dilemma of breathing would remain the same.

Zmaj acknowledged this pitfall by including the idea of keeping plants to replenish the air supply (great band by the way) within the mudhomes.

As for the silt runners they seem to use thier webbed feet much like a real life lizard does here on earth (can't remember it's name ATM, been awhile since I watched the nature channel hehe). Both silt runners and that lizard can only run for very short distances on water/silt though.

How could you forget the name of this lil guy? Its called a basilisk There are a few variety, ones without the large frills, ones with em, and the double crested. Unfortunately, their ability to run on water stems more from the surface tension and molecular cohesion, something else that silt lacks. Looking at the feet of a basilisk, they're actually not webbed, but have long seperate toes.
#29

zombiegleemax

Mar 01, 2004 18:11:13
Another thought: What about an athasian aboleth? That would be a terror to behold, eh?

Damn, posted while I was still typing

I think aboleth and illithids go hand in hand. I've used them as prominent villains before (especially after the ecology article from dragon mag #131 that gives four new and even more potent types of aboleth). I'd love to see the aboleth as a major power player of the silt sea and the races there.
#30

nytcrawlr

Mar 01, 2004 18:39:01
Originally posted by Mach2.5
How could you forget the name of this lil guy? Its called a basilisk There are a few variety, ones without the large frills, ones with em, and the double crested. Unfortunately, their ability to run on water stems more from the surface tension and molecular cohesion, something else that silt lacks. Looking at the feet of a basilisk, they're actually not webbed, but have long seperate toes.

Wow, that thing is actually called a basilisk?

Always wondered what they were really called, loved watching Austrailian based nature shows and seeing them in it.
#31

dawnstealer

Mar 01, 2004 19:09:47
Yar, they're also called "jesus lizards." I agree that aboleth and mind flayers go hand-in-hand, so what would happen if, say, one were wiped out? Irikos, Slayer of Mind Flayers? Nah, rhymes too well, but you get the point.
#32

nytcrawlr

Mar 01, 2004 19:17:06
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Yar, they're also called "jesus lizards." I agree that aboleth and mind flayers go hand-in-hand, so what would happen if, say, one were wiped out? Irikos, Slayer of Mind Flayers? Nah, rhymes too well, but you get the point.

Jesus Christ lizards to be more exact.

Yeah, always liked Illithids in Athas, thought they should always have existed, oh well.

Guess that means I need to add aboleths to the fray too, hehe.
#33

zombiegleemax

Mar 01, 2004 19:19:51
Wiped out

That's no fun.

This whole thread has got me thinking about the silt sea a whole lot, and while there's a handful of baddies to flesh out the region, there's not much in the way of an intelligent adversary. I think aboleths would fit the part quite well.

As for killing off illithids? I can't. I'm working them into my campaign so while not canon, they're as good as carved in stone for me.

Wow, that thing is actually called a basilisk?

Yup. Course, they've got nothing at all to do with the mythical beastie, or the D&D version.
#34

nytcrawlr

Mar 01, 2004 19:24:29
Originally posted by Mach2.5
As for killing off illithids? I can't. I'm working them into my campaign so while not canon, they're as good as carved in stone for me.

You'll have to share that once you are done fleshing it out.

The aboleth thing too.

Don't really want an underdark for Athas, so I need to figure out how they would be there and not dry out from the dryness, etc.

Maybe change the race some and make an adaptive Athasian version, hmmm, wheels turning.

Yup. Course, they've got nothing at all to do with the mythical beastie, or the D&D version.

The myth was based off of their ugliness though. Which in turned spawned the mythical/fantasy/D&D version.

Google and mythology is a good thing. :D
#35

dawnstealer

Mar 01, 2004 20:09:24
I had illithids living under Undertyr. One of the books, I think it's City State of Tyr, makes mention of deeper levels of Undertyr. I always treated it as kind of an athasian flavored undermountain. When my players were in the mood for a dungeon-dive, and were in Tyr, that's where they'd go. Aboleths would be nasty in an Athasian environment.

Hmm, just thought of something: could the elder god brain be a remnant of the Brown Tide?!!!

(insert dramatic music here)
#36

zombiegleemax

Mar 01, 2004 20:40:58
You'll have to share that once you are done fleshing it out.

I know, I've said I'll be putting up something soon for over a year now. I'm just a stickler for details and getting things 'just right'. I may have something though, not too far down the road.

Hmm, just thought of something: could the elder god brain be a remnant of the Brown Tide?!!!

Hmmm . . . maybe the elder brains, living in the sea, were able to safeguard themselves against the predations of the brown tide, but at what cost? Then comes Bory's to destroy the sea and turn it to silt . . . the elder brains (and aboleths, if they're in there too) would have had to adapt or move out rather quickly.

Maybe change the race some and make an adaptive Athasian version, hmmm, wheels turning.

Silt dwelling aboleth?
#37

dawnstealer

Mar 01, 2004 21:10:26
Hey, I'm liking this! So the elder brains bolted for the Outer plains, one of them becomes Ilsensine and gives birth to the illithiads! Merry Christmas, multiverse! And here's some kreen, too. Of course, the Aboleth stuck it out and became silt aboleth. Scary thought.
#38

nytcrawlr

Mar 01, 2004 21:49:50
Originally posted by Mach2.5

Silt dwelling aboleth?

Yeah!

And illithids that like the sun!

:D
#39

Kamelion

Mar 02, 2004 3:28:49
Are you folks familiar with "The Night Below" 2e box? An underdark campaign featuring the whole gamut of underdark races (except drow, thankfully). It featured some new strains of aboleth, including the aboleth savant, which, while not as cool as that 40 HD thing in Dragon 131, were still pretty funky...
#40

zombiegleemax

Mar 02, 2004 6:08:09
Are you folks familiar with "The Night Below" 2e box? An underdark campaign featuring the whole gamut of underdark races (except drow, thankfully). It featured some new strains of aboleth, including the aboleth savant, which, while not as cool as that 40 HD thing in Dragon 131, were still pretty funky...

Ooooo . . . I normally pass over dungeon crawls (especially large boxy meant to spend the next twenty years skulking through dungeon crawls), but I may have to go out and search about for this one.
#41

Kamelion

Mar 02, 2004 6:37:58
It's very nice. It features a nasty aboleth plot waaay down in the depths - the PCs tangle with illithid slavers, kuo-toans, renegade tanar'ri etc en route. Easily the best presentation of a realistic subterranean setting I've seen. Kept us busy for months. It uses the underdark more as a campaign setting than as a "dungeon". SvGames has it.
#42

zmaj

Mar 03, 2004 6:06:18
What can I say? I get an idea in my head and I can't let it go... from Valley of Dust and Fire:

The silt has some indigenous plant life outside the
mud flats. In regions of shallow silt (10í or less) the
olom-reed flourishes. This hardy plant roots in the
solid bottom of the silt basin and reaches up
through the dust blanket to the sun. Its stem is
strong and flexible, with a tassel of soft rushes at its
top. Travellers welcome sight of the olom-reed because
stands of hundreds of reeds may conceal a
small spring or mud flat.

Probably wouldn't do the silt dwellers much good, but what if they managed to breed somethingthat reaches even further up? Some breeds might actually produce fruits or veggies that get thier sunlight from these long reeds that reach not just 10 but 50 or 100 feet or more to the surface.

There could also be life shaped creatures hidden under the silt. I seem to recall Windriders talking about ancient tunnels of the nature masters extending under the entire Tyr region and beyond. The silt dwellers may have found some life shaped food producers, or perhaps even be decendents of the nature masters or nature benders.

Don't mind me.. been pouring over everything I own looking for possibilities on this. I'm really a dwarf who's chosen this as my latest focus :-) Just been a couple years since I've been able to do anything with DS is all. I'm harmless... really.
#43

zombiegleemax

Mar 03, 2004 15:28:55
Probably wouldn't do the silt dwellers much good, but what if they managed to breed somethingthat reaches even further up? Some breeds might actually produce fruits or veggies that get thier sunlight from these long reeds that reach not just 10 but 50 or 100 feet or more to the surface.

Niiiiiicceeee. I like it. An interesting analogy would be kelp, some of which can grow up to 300 feet in only a year (still searching about for some kind of kelp length world record or something, I would imagine that some species would grow longer than even this). Large but light (and hence delicate) fronds may be able to reach the surface and give the plant access to the sparse amounts of sunlight that filter through the silt on calm days. Like kelp, the plant may grow in small forests (big enough clusters, perhaps several acres in coverage) that could provide food. Strong storms or low lying herbavores may uproot the plants which may very well drift along in storms. Great idea.

Maybe the thread should be renamed into "Everything you ever wanted to know about the Silt Sea, but were afraid to ask." Since we keep straying from the idea of creating a silt race.