Anyway, here is what I have to say about the Black Robed wizards.
They are evil. They kill, they steal, they pursue dark secrets that will eventually destroy them (see DLA). They are subtle and intelligent, but they are capable of committing the evil they have dedicated themselves to. To tie this in to the Star Wars I have on the brain, the dark magic of Nuitari can be likened to the dark side of the force. Dark magic tempts, urges the magic user to unleash it, and twists the practitioner into a suitably iconic villain. Given Star Wars' huge influence on the dragonlance setting as a whole, this is no coincidence. You want to get a good feel for a black robe mage in Krynn, you could do worse than watch "Return of the Jedi's" Darth Sidious.
Now, of course there is one big difference between the Force of Star Wars and the magic of Krynn's moons. There is the magic of balance on Krynn, and the White Robes recognize the Black Robes as brothers in magic, not just enemies to be exterminated. However, does this mean that White Robes and Black Robes are not enemies? Certainly not. White robes serve the world, and by serving the world, serve themselves. Their magic depends on a pure soul to wield, and slipping away from that purity means slipping away from that magic, into neutrality and even darkness. So when a black robe is commiting evil acts, a white robe must act against them. This means that black robes and white robes are enemies, even if they are brothers in magic. A white robe cannot ignore the suffering that a black robe causes, and a black robe does not let much, much less people's lives, stand in the way of his quest for power.
So what does this mean? This means that the loss of the Towers of High Sorcery in the 5th Age is a BIG blow to the WoHS. Not only do they lose access to the libraries and magical items inside and a practical place for magical experiments... they lost one of the key glues that keeps the orders together. Without neutral ground, exchange of magic and information between the orders becomes much less certain. It can happen, but a lot less safe and secure. Mage vs. Mage might fight against each other in the outside world, but that is the way of the outside world.
Yes a white robe and a black robe might have a professional respect for one another, or even a friendship or romantic relationship. However I think we can all agree that while the first is the rule, the latter two are the exceptions to that rule, and are extremely rare. As well, the professional relationship does not prevent either side from doing what they feel needs to be done, even if it means killing the other.
In terms of the role of the black robes in the campaign setting, well the conclave does not demand that the black robes be accepted by the states of the outside world. That is because the conclave, being wizards, are bright enough to understand why people wouldn't want to tolerate people who are destructive and anti-social. Besides, remember how Dalamar was cast out of Silvanesti? He took up the black robes of course, which the elves cannot abide. The conclave didn't pull out its mages from Silvanesti or Qualinesti, though the magical sciences did suffer in the elven nations from stagnation. So what does this mean?
It means that if a Black Robe is operating openly, he has the political or personal power to do so. Fistandantilus and Raistlin were examples of the latter. Otherwise, they are like the followers of other dark dieties such as Hiddukel, Chemosh or Sargonnas. They operate in nations that swear fealty to darkness, operate as a vizier to an unsavory lord, employed by a thieves' guild, march with forces like the dragonarmies, or have managed to dominate a small corner of Krynn (as in my village example). This means that he isn't likely to stroll down the main streets of Solanthus or casually drink an ale at the Inn of the Last Home in full wizardly regalia. In places where they cannot operate openly, they operate with subtlety and secrecy. Again, just like the other followers of the dark gods.
To dispute any of what I said means:
1) Mages never fight Mages
2) Black Robes aren't evil, just rebellious
3) The conclave commands the nations of the world
None of these, I think we can agree, is a good idea.
Originally posted by ferratus
To tie this in to the Star Wars I have on the brain, the dark magic of Nuitari can be likened to the dark side of the force.
So would this be…The Dark Side of the Moon?
Sorry, couldn’t resist the Pink Floyd reference (fer you youngins).
Not a bad analogy, btw.
So what does this mean? This means that the loss of the Towers of High Sorcery in the 5th Age is a BIG blow to the WoHS. Not only do they lose access to the libraries and magical items inside and a practical place for magical experiments... they lost one of the key glues that keeps the orders together. Without neutral ground, exchange of magic and information between the orders becomes much less certain. It can happen, but a lot less safe and secure. Mage vs. Mage might fight against each other in the outside world, but that is the way of the outside world.
I’m a bit confused here. How are the Towers lost? The Tower of Nightlund (formerly Palanthas) is still around (even if Dalamar isn’t allowed entrance), and the Tower of Wayreth is still around.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I’m a bit confused here. How are the Towers lost? The Tower of Nightlund (formerly Palanthas) is still around (even if Dalamar isn’t allowed entrance), and the Tower of Wayreth is still around.
Well, according to the DLCS, the Tower of Nightlund was warded and sealed shut by Dalamar, who himself is forbidden to enter. Since it is warded, I figured that everyone else is pretty much snookered too unless they can counter Dalamar's magical seals. Since Dalamar is the most powerful magus on the planet, it isn't likely to happen soon. I don't know about the rest of you, but I want it back in Palanthas. I liked the fact that the beautiful Palanthas had a reminder of ugliness and evil in its heart, across the way from Paladine's temple.
As for the Tower of Wayreth, I beleive we were rather coyly informed that there were "other problems". I think we'll find out in Doug Niles' new book what those problems are.
I wonder if the groves left behind by the Towers are neutral ground as well, namely Daltigoth and Palanthas. (Since the other 3 cannot be visited).
A) Practicing black magic on innocents
b) Leading an army against a good-aligned nation
c) some other dastardly deed.
However if a White Robe entered a tavern and saw a Black Robe there eating a pie and drinking some ale, I hardly think he would challenged him then and there for a duel.
He would probably nod curtly to him and go about his business.
They are enemies, yes, but not at each other's throats.
Originally posted by QuentinGeorge
They are enemies, yes, but not at each other's throats.
They aren't enemies. Unless they have some reason to be enemies, they aren't.
The two Orders, White and Black, aren't at war. They aren't enemies. Individual magi might be enemies, but not all White's see all Black's as enemies and vice versa.
About da towers...
The Tower of Wayreth is lost. The Tower doesn't let anyone find it.
The Tower of Nightlund is lost. No one, except Dalamar, knows its location, and Dalamar isn't going to reveal it until the White Robes get a leader.
He is no longer Master of the Tower.
Originally posted by Nived
Dalamar can't go back to his tower though. The Gods of Magic forbade his entry there.
He is no longer Master of the Tower.
Thats was the way I also saw it.
Dalamar choose to keep his magic, but the price was the tower. While Palin chose to live a normal.
So I expect that the gods of magic will be active in recreating the orders. And maybe that will scearch for new masters.
Originally posted by ferratus
I liked the fact that the beautiful Palanthas had a reminder of ugliness and evil in its heart, across the way from Paladine's temple.
Of course the temple is no longer there either...
I know we haven't seen much of Palanthas in the War of Souls...but, is it still controlled by the Knights of Nereka? (I can't remember what the DLCS said)
Originally posted by ferratus
I wonder if the groves left behind by the Towers are neutral ground as well, namely Daltigoth and Palanthas. (Since the other 3 cannot be visited).
Why can't the Wayreth and Losarcum groves not be visited? (or the Istarian one for that matter by submerged creatures and beings?)
Originally posted by Brimstone
I know we haven't seen much of Palanthas in the War of Souls...but, is it still controlled by the Knights of Nereka?
Yes, the Knights of Neraka still control Palanthas. It's a nice city, well-kept. I think the Knights who run it are in better shape than the ones over on the eastern side of the continent, but the DLCS notes that their ranks may have been thinned by the War of Souls and many are hoping for a Solamnic liberation in the coming years.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by QuentinGeorge
However if a White Robe entered a tavern and saw a Black Robe there eating a pie and drinking some ale, I hardly think he would challenged him then and there for a duel.
He would probably nod curtly to him and go about his business.
They are enemies, yes, but not at each other's throats.
I would add that the White Robe would even be inclined to strike up a conversation. They might exchange a little bit of magical knoweldge, or just talk shop. Depending on how pressing their business was. Afterall, if you are out in the field, you don't run into Wizards a lot.
I would also add that "evil" in both the Dragonlance and D&D settings is very much akin to selfishness. The Black Robe is going to put himself (and more importantly, his magic) above others. However, because you often don't need to harm innocents to devote your life to studying magic, this lessens the conflicts between Orders. Just don't put your life in the hands of a Black...and don't trust him at his word. Related to this is that fact that (IMHO), a White Robe would be considered a *very* poor member of the order if he wanted to slay all Black Robes. This true to a lesser extent if he just hated them all. Most Black Robes aren't going to be harming innocents...it simply isn't necessary to focus on magic and increase their power. They wouldn't lift a finger to help the average innocent either, however. I think Dalamar is the perfect example of a Black Robe. How many innocents did he harm? Hardly any...he just wasn't a good choice to have as your best friend.
So in conclusion, the vast majority of Black Robes don't harm innocents, merely because it *isn't* worth their time and potential reprecussions. As they say, chaotic evil* doesn't mean chaotic stupid.
-Drachasor
*Not to imply that all or most Black Robes are chaotic evil, of course. But there are no associations with "lawful stupid," so far as I know. Though I can see how both lawful stupid and neutral stupid...and especially True Stupid, could come about.
ferratus, I think your Star Wars analogy is legitimate up to a point. The main difference is in the Star Wars universe the Sith are an abberation, a twisted peversion of the Jedi and are not "meant-to-be". Both sides are focused on annhilating the other. There is no common ground.
Whereas in Krynn, the Black Robes are a divinely ordanied part of the magical order. Solinari, Lunitari and Nuitari decreed that all orders are to exist and to advance the cause of magic together. They just don't agree on how to do it. Individuals from each of the three orders may fight and kill each other but the orders themselves do not "go to war", so to speak.
Or at least that is my take on it: Any thoughts?
I don't play 5th age, so I don't know what's going on there but..
In classical dragonlance, respect is very important for tower mages, and every tower mage is responsible first of all to the Gods of Magic and to the conclave. They respect the conclave and no matter what color they choose to wear, they are not enemies of each other. They are a union. And their task, above all other tasks, is the survival of the union.
Dalamar is a black robe, and he probably would kill Raistlin if he would come out succesfully from the Abyss. And why? For the survival of the world.
Originally posted by QuentinGeorge
ferratus, I think your Star Wars analogy is legitimate up to a point. The main difference is in the Star Wars universe the Sith are an abberation, a twisted peversion of the Jedi and are not "meant-to-be". Both sides are focused on annhilating the other. There is no common ground.
Yes, that's what I said in the exact same post where I made the analogy. Observe:
Originally posted by Ferratus
Now, of course there is one big difference between the Force of Star Wars and the magic of Krynn's moons. There is the magic of balance on Krynn, and the White Robes recognize the Black Robes as brothers in magic, not just enemies to be exterminated
[/b]
Now for pete's sake guys, we all know that mages don't do things without a damn good reason. Just like paladins don't smite every evil person they see, just like the Solamnics and Nerekans carry on trade negotiations and share ambassadors with promises of safe conduct, so too do the members of the Orders of High Sorcery possess sanity.
The white robes fight the black robes to counter their aggression. The black robes fight the white when they get in their way. They both know that simply fireballing each other out in public is bad for both their personal well-being, and because it tends to
off the legitimate authorities of Ansalon. If a white robe fireballed black robes upon sight outside the Towers of High Sorcery, he'd probably be arrested! After all, a black robe is either keeping his allegiance to evil a secret, or he is firmly entrenched as a legitimate citizen or political figure. We keep thinking that mages can do whatever they please in the outside world, and that is thinking that simply has to be broken. The mages do not rule Ansalon.Plus there is the opportunity to learn new magic, trade magic, and so forth between mages. There is the opportunity to convert the other black mage to the "light side of the moon" as it were. For some reason that campaign plot doesn't seem to be explored that much.
I guess it all goes back to simply good roleplaying. You as a player of D&D, and a sane individual, know the consequences of your actions. What would you do as a black robe to gain power? What would you do as a white robe to restore peace? In either case, it wouldn't involve randomally fireballing people. We all know this, and I have never said otherwise. I mean, jeeze, we don't assume this of blackguards, thieves guild leaders, or any other villain. Why do we assume this of black robed mages?
Originally posted by Ave
Dalamar is a black robe, and he probably would kill Raistlin if he would come out succesfully from the Abyss. And why? For the survival of the world.
Dalamar would kill his lover Jenna if it was the only way he could gain more magic and power, or the way he would gain the greatest way he could gain magic and power. For example, if Nuitari demanded it, or if she stood in his way when he wished to descend to a tomb of a ancient black robed mage, who was buried with all of his magical secrets.
Dalamar is evil guys, even if he doesn't tend to show it.
Originally posted by raistlinrox
So why was Dalamar banished (or whatever) from the Tower? If he is the most powerful mage on Krynn, why did the moon gods forbid him to enter?
He betrayed them by making a deal with Takhisis.
Originally posted by raistlinrox
When was this deal made? Was he aware that Takhisis was the One God too? And what exactly was the deal?
Near the end of the War of Souls.
Yes.
Can't remember the exact details, but he also made a deal with Malys. And it doesn't really matter what the deal was, he made a deal with the enemy of all the four pantheons.
Originally posted by HiddenValor
For all of Dalamar's good qualities(There's a few of them)He has about three bad qualities.He just wants to be the strongest...maybe learning from Raistlin he developed this trait...thats and intresting point.....anyway he just wants all the power so he will do anything to get it even if it means bending the rules and making a deal with a certin god.:D
He has limits though, there's no desire to become a god in him. He's no Raistlin in ambition (though he is very ambitious).
-Drachasor
So I was really disappointed to see where things went for the Orders of Magic post War of the Lance/ Chaos War thing. To see one of the things I loved most about the DragonLance world extinguished just like that turned me off to the new books.
i'd always thought that the magic of krynn was well thought out as compared w lets say FR's
when magic as we knew it was removed and wizards were replaced with sorcerers, i thought wellmaybe a change of pace can be nice, but now putting them together and making wizards seem so much more under the moon gods' influence/control it just doesnt fit for me anymore...
wizards for me were always intelligent people who were wizards not clerics because they were always asking questions and trying to find ways to achieve power...
the mystic class does make sense to me...
its just that i much prefer the wizard/sorcerer distinction in standard D&D to the one in DL ryt now..
does anyone feel the same bout this? or is it just me?
can we ever hope for things to be like they used to??
id always considered magic an art or science, hence the need for a hi intelligence and all that, sorcerers for me just arent n shouldnt be the leading practicioners of magic...
Llike I said, I actually converted the 1st Edition ADnD Players Handbook spell list into a format for use with the MARVEL SUPER HERO RPG, so I could make a character, based on myself, study the ways of magic, take his test and use these magical powers to become a Super hero with. I even did a quest to restore the Towers of High Sorcery, with my character bringing one of the Towers of High Sorcery that were destroyed by the KingPriest, was able to move it to Riverside, California as my character's new home base.
It was so much fun and the Orders of High Sorcery were so well thought out and designed that I regret they were taken out for a while by the new history's that have come out.
That is not the fault of Sovereign Press however. They did probably the best job that could be done in reconciling the mess that had been left flaming on their porch. However, the more we work with it the more the bugs are going to be made appearant, and the more they will have to be ironed out.
For example, we have the fact that wild magic exists in the Age of Dreams, wanes, and returns after the Chaos War. That leads to questions like: Why did everyone suddenly switch to High Sorcery? How much wild magic existed after the creation of High Sorcery? Was their wild magic available during the War of the Lance?
Therefore it is probably better to have the magical storms of wild magic unleashed in the second dragon war to just burn up all the wild magic. Then we don't have to worry about how quickly it waned, or showing up during the War of the Lance (pre 5th Age). The gods of magic simply replace the source of power for the magically sensitive with High Sorcery. 5th Age comes along, the wells are refilled with fresh chaos magic, and we have the rediscovery of sorcery.
One other thing that becomes increasingly appearant is that wild magic can basically manifest itself however you wish. Commanding spirits, incantations, tapping energy from other planes, drawing upon a caster's changeling blood etc. All that really matters is that the caster has the strength of will to call upon it (Cha).
This means that there are not two traditions of magic namely, Wild Sorcery and High Sorcery. No, what really is the case is that high sorcery is one magical tradition (the oldest and most organized) of what are literally dozens or even hundreds of different traditions that will arise out of Krynn in the coming decades and centuries.
Dragonhelm and Cam Banks (both of whom are more interested in prestige classes than I) always talk about how prestige classes are invariably better fits for sorcerers rather than wizards on Krynn. Part of me rebells against stuffing all these eggs in the sorcerer's basket, but they are correct.
Wizardry is just one tradition and a very regimented one at that. Wild magic on the other hand can take any form you want it to. Not such a tragedy though, many settings have many prestige classes that require divine magic, despite lacking a spontaneously casting divine magic-user as an alternative.
So this is a bug that will ironed with time as more and more spellcasting guilds, organizations, magical artifacts are created with each new books and game supplement. This will mean that the Wizards of High Sorcery won't become the only source of magic in the campaign world, but the Order that does the work of keeping the other magical traditions in check and C(c)haos out of the universe.
Originally posted by ferratus
Dragonhelm and Cam Banks (both of whom are more interested in prestige classes than I) always talk about how prestige classes are invariably better fits for sorcerers rather than wizards on Krynn. Part of me rebells against stuffing all these eggs in the sorcerer's basket, but they are correct.
Just to clarify a bit, my general feeling is that the sorcerer is more open to taking arcane prestige classes, as you don't have the feel and limitations of the Wizards of High Sorcery to contend with. I have a hard time envisioning a WoHS who is also an arcane trickster, for example.
Now, this isn't to say that a WoHS can't also take another prestige class. Archmage is perfect for the WoHS, as is the Loremaster.
That's just my personal opinion, though.
Originally posted by miclops77
[b]My first D&D campain was dragonlance. I was a black robe wizard apprentacing under Dalamar and my friend was a White under Tremordan(Raistlin in disguise) both were heads of their enclave.
Raistlin as a white robe? Never ever ever. Raistlin could not possbily be good after all of the bad stuff he has done. You havent read the LEGENDS or the Chronicles have you?
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
About da towers...
The Tower of Wayreth is lost. The Tower doesn't let anyone find it.
I don't believe the Tower of Wayreth is lost. Its just waiting for the master of the order to take control of it.
What I mean by this.
During the legend series the first book to be exact. Raistlin made the Tower of Wayreth find Caramon, Crysania, Tas, and Bupu after Lord Soth attacked Crysania. They woke up and they were in the grove of Wayreth.
With that being said since Dalamar is the master of the order why can't he just make Wayreth find him?
I believe Dalamar has the power to control the Tower of Wayreth, and make the grove appear so he can enter the Tower. Even if he didn't have the power alone with the help of Jena, and a few others that have survived during the age of mortals that shouldn't be a problem.
THe tower probably has orders from the Gods of magic to remain hidden until instructed otherwise.
The tower will probably IMO remain hidden until the orders can be fully reconstituted, I.E. someone becoming the head of the white robes.
This was the quest\geas that the gods of magic laid on Dalamar if I recall correctly.
Tower of Palanthas:
Raist takes over after the WotL as master of past and present, after his demise Dalamar moves in. While the War of Chaos (I think) he moves it into Nightlund. After playing with Takhisis and Maly to get the most out of it, the returning Gods of magic give him the choice: Tower or ...forgot (life?Magic?)...well he leaves the tower and is banned.
Tower of Wayreth:
Last Tower known to be still around after the WoC. Got his "own" personality (in fact all wizards who have ever lived within its walls can be "recalled" by the tower). Disappears from sight at the end of the WoS, after decades of perfect eluding of the minions of Beryl and the thorns.
No tower left for wizardly public.
Greets
M's Claw
Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
[b]Originally posted by miclops77
My first D&D campain was dragonlance. I was a black robe wizard apprentacing under Dalamar and my friend was a White under Tremordan(Raistlin in disguise) both were heads of their enclave.
Raistlin as a white robe? Never ever ever. Raistlin could not possbily be good after all of the bad stuff he has done. You havent read the LEGENDS or the Chronicles have you?
You dont have to be good to wear the white robes, you just have to be tricky. After all they are just robes.
Originally posted by miclops77
You dont have to be good to wear the white robes, you just have to be tricky. After all they are just robes.
Oh young and confused Miclops, thou knowest not thine history when it cometh to matters such. In 1st and 2nd edition only certain schools of magic could be cast by certain Robes. Illusion was the domain of the Red while Abjuration was of hte White and Necromancy of the Black. Depending upon a mage's alignment, even if he or she wore white or red robes, they would be allowed to cast certain spells or no longer be able to cast spells that they could before.
Same goes for the Red and White. Even if things would be thousands of times easier to masquerade as a member of a different order, we wouldn't.
That's why we disguise ourselves as ANYTHING ELSE but a member of a different order of wizards.
It's a "not being a douchebag" thing. See also "loyalty to a certain moon".
-TRRW
Originally posted by ferratus
Well, let's face it, the state of magic in Krynn is a big mess, and we still haven't ironed out all the bugs. There are a lot of plot holes that were created when magic was ripped out of the world, and when a new kind of magic was patched in without much care and attention to the continuity of the setting, or consistency to how it was applied. That is why even now the explanation of what magic is or how it works is unsatisfying, contradictory, and overly complex. That is why we keep having to return to it and explain it over and over again.
Eh, as far as I am concerned, anything 5th Age (and later) never happened in my campaign. Biggest mess ever and totally ruined the setting. Which is why I'll be really happy when the War of the Lance book comes out in a few months
Originally posted by Mortepierre
Eh, as far as I am concerned, anything 5th Age (and later) never happened in my campaign. Biggest mess ever and totally ruined the setting.
Good for you. Thanks for the completely unproductive negative comment.
As for what Terry said, I really don't think it's all that big of a mess. It's certainly not the "flaming pile" left on SP's door step.
That being said, it certainly need some explination. The Appendix to Dragons of a Vanished Moon worked beautifully on explaining what the magic is/was. However, it was regrettfully silent on the "why" part.
Sovereign Press I think has done a wonderful job filling in the "why" part, and I'm willing to bet that we will get even more details in Towers of High Sorcery (since Jamie has already teased at the fact that the scions will be in this book).
I personally like the idea that the ambient creation magic of Krynn (ie, sorcery) is always readily available to the Children of Krynn (ie, dragons, bakali, fey, creatures, etc.) but the Children of the Stars (ie, elves, humans, ogres, etc.) need that extra magical catalyst created by the magic within the Greygem to access sorcery (the scions excluded, of course, being that they were more "fused" with that chaotic catalyst more than any other creatures the Greygem effected).
I don't know the complete history of Gargath...but isn't it feasable that once he captured the Greygem, sorcery instantly looses it's catalyst. The Greygem remains captured by Gargath until shortly before the Chaos War (when Reorx, using the Majere children, comes to claim it from Gargath, but then looses it again in the short story "Wanna Bet?"). So, it's conceivable that sorcery and mysticism actually become available in the year or two prior to the Summer of Chaos and then for good when the Greygem explodes.
Just a theory.
IMO chaos magic became available when the Scions were created, and sorcerers have always been around we just were never told the difference. Sorcerers would have been considered renegades and hunted down anyway. WoHS would have tried to keep a tight lid on this info getting, it was so tight in fact that WE never heard of it. Sorcerers would have any descendants of the scions or even those who might have been affected by the scions's magic, as well as those who might have been the offspring of mortals and dragons as well as descendants of Irda - mortal mixings.
See it is not that hard to incorporate all the history and feel on DL in the current rules.
I have never liked that Sorcerers just cropped up over-night.
Originally posted by darthsylver
Brim that didn't help. (First sentence comment in last post).
Probably not...
Originally posted by darthsylver
IMO chaos magic became available when the Scions were created, and sorcerers have always been around we just were never told the difference.
It's an interesting idea (the whole thing...not just what I quoted) and until the SP stuff came out, I was proabably inclined to agree with it...but now I'm going to go along with the official version.
The only question I have for you is if sorcery wasn't available before the Scions were created, what do youhave the dragons and fey and other magical creatures use before that point in time?
Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
Deception is not below a Black Robe.
You're right, it isn't. However, the point of displaying your robes proudly is it was one of the precedents set forth by the gods of magic. Personally, I always believed that meant not hiding your own robes at all. I know it means not disguising yourself as other robes. Regardless, you are right, if the black robes could deceive that way, I'm sure they would, depending on their respect for ancient laws. However, I'm also more than sure the respective god of magic would deny him/her their power if they tried.
Since we're talking about Raist, I'm pretty sure he knows that. Also, when did Raist ever care about not wearing his black robes? He may have been just as deceptive as others, but he never wore non-black robes.
Just my two copper.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Good for you. Thanks for the completely unproductive negative comment.
I happen to believe it's called an "opinion".
But, yes, I agree I could have made it sound less negative. My apologies for that.
My reasons for said opinion are:
a) no 5th Age = no Mystic or Sorcerer around
b) no 5th Age = Paladine/Thakisis are still around as deities
c) no 5th Age = no giant dragons or Chaos god terraforming (Krynnaforming?) the land once again (the Cataclysm did a good enough job, thank you)
It has the simple appeal of making things a lot easier to rationalize. That said, I understand others like very much what writers have done of the setting since 5th Age came out. More power to them. I am just not part of the gang.
Originally posted by Karui_Kage
but he never wore non-black robes.
Ummm, have you ever read a little series called the Chronicles, where for like 90% of those books, Raistlin was a Red Robe, unless of course you're talking about a different Raistlin...
In places where a black robes' profession and devotion is accepted, (Nereka, Lemish, Throtyl, Holat, Blode, Daltigoth, and of course the Tower of Wayreth) then he wears his black robes openly. In places where wearing a black robe would get you hung, he doesn't do it so much.
Now, obviously, most black robes tend to congregate where they can wear their robes openly. More convenient that way. Otherwise they have to be so powerful that they can have their own Tower of Evil in the middle of Palanthas and no one dares mess with you anyway. ;)
Originally posted by Mortepierre
I happen to believe it's called an "opinion".
No...it's fine, I was just being over sensitive. I know it's just an opinion, but it was stated in such a way that kinda inflamitory to those of us that do enjoy the 5th Age (and post-War of Souls) and also didn't add anything productive to the conversation. It was given for no reason...I didn't see what it had to do with the conversation at hand. Since you elaborated on your comment, now I do.
Just ignore me, I'm being stupid.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Just ignore me, I'm being stupid.
Oh, okay. :D :D
Originally posted by miclops77
I didnt have any friends, so I made my own.
AH!
I will be your friend since I am the friend of the friendless. :D
Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
Why wouldnt a nice guy like you have any friends MiClops, it is not as if you were burning kender or anything like that.
If you befriend the friendless, that no longer makes them friendless, doesnt that put you out of a job?
Originally posted by miclops77
If you befriend the friendless, that no longer makes them friendless, doesnt that put you out of a job?
Ah, but that is why I wear the Black Robes, you only think I am your friend and therefore I am not really out of a job. Otherwise you would have seen through my logic problem and that is not a wise thing. So which would you have?
Dont you roll your eyes at me, I'll roll that little head of yours around. I'll beat you until you can't grow anymore."
Bill Cosby as Himself
"Ill cut you down so low that not even marijuana can get you high."
Heard somewhere in midschool.
Glide? Guild.
Can you explain that for us?
There once was a player named MATT who couldnt pronounce guild in a sentance properly so he/she said glide instead. And then he/she died...9 times. The End
Originally posted by miclops77
No actual names were used.
There once was a player named MATT who couldnt pronounce guild in a sentance properly so he/she said glide instead. And then he/she died...9 times. The End
Oh, that is just sad.
:OMG! What ever happened to dear old Matt? Is she/he still playing?:heehee
I think he/she is coming into a breakthrough. MATT almost lived an entire session last week.
"I think I can I think I can I think I can":heehee
What kind of characters has he had and how have they died?
Also, the true role of the Black robes is, well, to be Black Robes.
-TRRW
Dunbar Mastersmate, Par-Salian, Palin Majere (Okay, I am really lacking in my white robe knowledge...lol)
Justarius, Jenna (Who wouldnt like this fiery woman) Tyros (Read the Citadel, great book)
Anyhow, there are many a black robe mage who was memorable, but in the other orders there be memorable characters as well mate ;)
Par-Salian
Dunbar
Palin
Yoraloyn
Martwort
Red:
Justarius
Jenna
Vincil
Lecinia
Black
Ladonna
Raistlin
Dalamar
Fistandantilus
Nusendran
Originally posted by QuentinGeorge
Red:
Lecinia
My personal favorite...and one of my top favorite Dragonlance characters, period. Not sure why...but I really like her.