Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 24, 2004 4:42:43	A player of mine asked if it was possible for a Lawfull Good Paladin to be a member of the Takers. My personal feelings said no, but I'm curious what the opinion of more experienced Planescaper's would be. Currently I've advised him to look at what the other factions are offering and then maybe play a spy within the Takers faction.
#2 zombiegleemax Feb 24, 2004 9:15:08	I would say he could. stranger things have happened. think up a plausable reason. all things come at a price
#3 moogle001 Feb 24, 2004 10:08:06	The Fated write up says any alignment but Lawful Good is acceptable. LG is typically just too opposed to the harsh outlook of the Fated. In the end, it's up to you. If you consider the player to be advanced, then work out an explaination for his faction membership with him.
#4 sildatorak Feb 24, 2004 12:35:28	I think that it would be very difficult for a paladin to be one of the Heartless. Their code of conduct says that they must help the needy, which runs pretty much counter to the Taker outlook. On the other hand, a paladin who believes that the only way to truly help anyone is to teach them to help themself might work. He wouldn't be charitable, but he'd be willing to preach self-sufficience and set people on the road to helping themself (which doesn't involve actual help, just providing raw materials/motivation for improving whatever). He'd have to set this all in the context of better the world for all (which may tick off some of his Fated breatheren) to maintain the lawful part of his alignment, though.
#5 Shemeska_the_Marauder Feb 24, 2004 17:53:33	Well there's the whole 'no LG' folks in the Takers. However this didn't prevent a few LG Fated from popping up in 'In The Cage'. Found them by accident almost when I put them into the 3e Sigil guide and then the edits there caught them. *chuckle*
#6 sildatorak Feb 24, 2004 21:05:24	Ah, but Planescape is about exceptions. Of course exceptions are still not the rule. An anarchist paladin inside the takers would...oh yeah no lawful guys in that faction either. I think that outside alignments don't fit neatly into faction creeds, but sometimes the outlook that would most fit a character matches most closely with a "banned" faction. Take an Anarchist paladin. She could believe that the current order is corrupt, and action must be taken to strip away the veils that hide whatever ultimate reality the high-ups in Sigil are hiding. She doesn't use terrorist tactics or the scattered efforts of random cells, rather she tries to rouse the masses and throw off the chains of oppression. Only when the current order is gone can the hard work of rebuilding the multiverse into a place where each gives according to his ability to each according to his need. Granted, this example is someone who is an idealist, but all the best anarchocommunists are. She'll probably have her dreams shattered eventually and end up joining the cabal like so many before her, but it could be one hell of a ride getting to that point.
#7 caoslayer Feb 26, 2004 5:30:55	The question it this: how is a good Fated? in first place, good fated would threat the word taker as an insult... good takers works hard for getting they share, very hard and they think that the harder they work, they have more right for getting fenefits... so a fated paladin dont thinks that have been gitfed with the powers of this god, he thinks that have gained them working hard for the good and the law, and so nobody who havent worked (fighted against evil) as hard as him have right to say him that it is this god´s pet. so fated paladins are kinda invidualists and self-rightous, and of course dont back up takers who steal at all.
#8 MephitJames Mar 01, 2004 14:02:02	Originally posted by CaoSlayer so a fated paladin dont thinks that have been gitfed with the powers of this god, he thinks that have gained them working hard for the good and the law, and so nobody who havent worked (fighted against evil) as hard as him have right to say him that it is this god´s pet. I do think that clergy and the Takers are odd bedfellows. An individualistic Taker wouldn't want to lean on a deity too much. What if the Fated, in his desire to build himself up, does something that the deity thinks is too selfish. There go all his powers. Since Takers are adamantly against relying on others to that degree, paladins and clerics wouldn't make effective Takers. Paladins are hard to fit into factions, in my opinion: They're too oderly for the Sinkers, too dedicated for the Bleakers, and more kindly than the majority of the Red Death (and all of the Sodkillers). Even the Ring-Givers have problems: they give things away so that people will owe them later, not very charitable for a champion of charity. In short, I think anything can happen in Planescape, and paladins are nearly always "special cases" in my book.
#9 sildatorak Mar 01, 2004 17:22:44	Originally posted by Mephit James An individualistic Taker wouldn't want to lean on a deity too much. What if the Fated, in his desire to build himself up, does something that the deity thinks is too selfish. There go all his powers. I think you're right about the "mainstream" Taker and typical paladin, but what if this particular paladin is more concerned with earning everything he gets rather than accumulating power. I can't remember where I read it, but there was a story about an initiate being tested by the Fated and one of her tests was to go into a bar and (I can't remember what she was supposed to do). Anyway there was a bag of gold on a table and she takes it and fails the test because she didn't have a right to it. She goes on to argue that by taking it she earned it, but that is not the part that is important in this discussion. A Fated paladin would definitely be a rarity and probably would be headed toward founding a splinter group given the likely differences in viewpoint.
#10 zombiegleemax Mar 02, 2004 0:52:42	Takers and paladins might not be fully compatible, but priest and Takers are. Well, they must be. Wasn't Darkwood a pretty powerful priest of Heimdal?
#11 Shemeska_the_Marauder Mar 02, 2004 1:09:25	Yep, he was a 20th level cleric of Heimdal. Though I'd question how much his devotion was true to Heimdal and not just shared ideals. For all his faults, Darkwood was only doing what he thought was best for himself and for those around him. I feel bad for him sometimes. "And then when I do I just rattle around my magic 8-Labyrinth Gem and ask him if I should feel bad. Usually I just get a 'Mazed, try again a few centuries ago', or 'Barmy, ask later' or 'Signs say toyed with by Her Serenity'." "Crummy fortune telling thing, they sell such junk at The Friendly Fiend. Not that I payed money for this mind you." :D