I happened to be flipping through the d20 dragonlance campaign book, and there's a noble class presented there, that i thought could be easily inserted as an available class in DS. Thoughts?
Aristocrats gain that feat at first level. They represent those nobles who simply profit from their station, and do not adventure.
PC nobles can select the feat, and take levels in some other class. The reason for this is mainly that I don't see the SKs as holding courts or nobles having any kind of really active role which would require adventuring, unlike the courtiers of Rokugan or the noble knights of western medieval settings. So, adventuring nobles would still be fighters or rangers, or templars or telepaths.
As for the Noble feat, I twinked it for 3.5. The benefits are inspired by the Thunder Twin feat of FR, the courtier of Rokugan and the Noble's outfit description. You might not have noticed that, but the description of the PHB states that anyone not wearing a noble's outfit suffers a -2 penalty to Cha related checks with nobles. So:
NOBLE [General]
You were born into the nobility or your people, or were honored by being granted a noble rank.
Prerequisites: DM's approval.
Benefits: You gain the social benefits of being a noble. You gain a +2 bonus to all Charisma related checks relating to social interaction when your noble status is reckognised. Also, those who are not of the nobility suffer a -2 penalty to those same checks when trying to affect you.
Special: A noble's outfit is usually the mark of your noble status. One can disguise themselves as nobles by wearing one to avoid the penalty to Charisma checks. Also, if your noble rank is not known or obvious to others, you do not benefit from the bonus to Charisma checks.
As the social benefits of being of Noble blood vary depending on the setting, the DM's permission is a requirement for this feat.
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
Nobles, like traders, seem to be a large part of the day-to-day functioning of Athas, that really isnt represented in the Athas.org conversion... and not really all that well represented in the original.
Yes, they're a strong part of day to day life on athas.
Just like slaves. just like artistans.
That doesn't mean they're adventurers. They all fit very well into the NPC classes from the DMG.
Noble --> Aristocrat
Slave --> Commoner
Artistan --> Expert
Trader --> Expert (or, if he's good, Rouge)
As for traders, bring it on - it really needs it's own class. I suggest we all check out this thread for some good idea's:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169552
good stuff.
As for the Noble, I don't particularily like it in DragonLance. Note that it really, really resembles the one in Wheel of Time, which I think is even a bit better. The best noble type class I think their is is the Rokugan Courtier, but that one has a special background which explains many of his abilities, which would not fit most settings, Dark Sun included.
Rouge (noun), 1: Any of various cosmetics for coloring the cheeks or lips red. 2: A very common misspelling of the word rogue.
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
It's ROGUE, not ROUGE. :D
Bite me. :p
Originally posted by flip
Bite me. :p
When and where big boy?
Should I make sure I have plenty of rouge on?
:invasion:
:hoppingma
*runs for the hills* Rofadik, help!
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
Isn't he cute... Can I keep him? Please...
*runs for the hills* Rofadik, help!
That's it. I'm razing the shrine.
:fight!:
That's it. I'm razing the shrine.
Then I'll build another one. The old one sank in the swamp...
the +2 to charisma checks is nice, but i think nobles have a larger influence than that. They seem to be one of the few groups of people immune to the whims of templars, and neither the noble class or the feat reflects the amount of ceramics that would be appropriate...
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
Um, noble class? anyone? =)
the +2 to charisma checks is nice, but i think nobles have a larger influence than that. They seem to be one of the few groups of people immune to the whims of templars, and neither the noble class or the feat reflects the amount of ceramics that would be appropriate...
It's probably all that rouge they are wearing. :D
Originally posted by flip
That's it. I'm razing the shrine.
:fight!:
Is that a sword there you are wielding, or are you just happy to see me?
/me puts on more rouge
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
Um, noble class? anyone? =)
the +2 to charisma checks is nice, but i think nobles have a larger influence than that. They seem to be one of the few groups of people immune to the whims of templars, and neither the noble class or the feat reflects the amount of ceramics that would be appropriate...
The way I handle nobles is simple. I start my DS campaigns at level 3 - that way all of the "standard" races can come into play, even if HG's and TK's don't get to start out with a class.
If someone wants to be a noble, they need to have at least 1 level in Aristocrat when they make their character. This does mean that in my games, HG's and TK's aren't able to be nobles - but for Dark Sun, this makes sense - since TK's aren't exactly cityfolk, and HG's tend to not be in the upper class anyway.
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
Um, noble class? anyone? =)
the +2 to charisma checks is nice, but i think nobles have a larger influence than that. They seem to be one of the few groups of people immune to the whims of templars, and neither the noble class or the feat reflects the amount of ceramics that would be appropriate...
As I explained, I don't think a noble class is in itself required for adventuring athasians. Aristocrats cover those who do not, and have the abilities of the standard nobles because of their class skills selections. The added feat of mine also complements their benefits.
As for the feat, it allows non-aristocrat members to become noble. Think about the gulg nobility, for example. I really don't think a level of aristocrat is in order for the hunters who become noble. The feat allows for rangers to pick up nobility status without aristocratic ways of life. Anyways, I see nobility as an advantage, not a way of life per se.
Finally, in defense of my feat, it doesn't only give the Charisma-checks benefit. The begining of the benefits section states that it grants the social benefits of being a noble. This inlcudes deference from lower classes in most setting, as well as political favoritism, or even immunity, such as with Templar jurisdiction matters. Mechanically, it becomes easier to determine who has the benefits of nobility and who doesn't. The feat also makes it easy to become a requisite for a prestige class requiring nobility, if warranted.
However, as social benefits vary depending on what culture they are in (between city-states, or non-human nobility (thinking of Dwarven nobles most likely)), this feat requires the approval of the DM.