But the simple answer, as Brandi said, is: There is no name because there is no planet.
VNM
But there is no official answer to the question.
I think the most likely planetary structure for the Misted lands would be a dead empty planetoid, possibly water-covered(Sea of Sorrows), possibly a gas giant(Mists), to which large land masses are continually magically transferred. Hence the omnipresence of the Mists around Barovia prior to the creation(transferrence?) of Darkon and the uniform gravity across the Misted Lands as well as the same basic uniform daily timetable(sunrise/sunset)across the lands. The demiplane probably isn't large enough yet to require time zones. Another possible model would be a planet on which all sentient life annialated itself leaving behind dozens of different ruins of the dead civilizations. Hence the large number of dead cities lying about.
It seems that natives indeed call Ravenloft "Land of Mists", but it's rarely used. After all, Ravenloft is so boxed in that most totally ignore the existence of other planes. What's the point in having a word to identify your own plane, if you think of it as they only one existing. Think of it in real-life terms. If someone asks you where you're from, you're more likely to say "USA" or "France" for instance, than say "Earth" :D
Originally posted by VNM
Rather, it's an actual Demiplane floating amidst the Border Ethereal
It isn't the border ethereal by the way. Ravenloft is a bubble of matter, self enclosed, somewhere in the deep ethereal plane.
If you say 'border' it is in reference to a prime material plane, and Ravenloft isn't close to one of them in particular.
Joël
While there are indeed ancient ruins scattered around Ravenloft, most seem to have been "Mist-napped" much as characters are. Certainly ruins like the feline, pseudo-Egyptian tomb from "The Awakening" and the well-shaped dungeon from the Requiem modules don't seem to have come from the same culture, or even from remotely-related cultures, despite their present geographic proximity to one another.
Given that RL natives don't seem well-informed about the wider cosmology of the multiverse -- some don't believe what outsiders tell them (e.g. Lamordians); others have been fed contradictory information (Is there a Great Wheel a la MotP or a Great Tree a la FR?) -- and that they generally *can't* escape to go elsewhere, they haven't had much need to distinguish their homeland from other settings. They're accustomed to their world being bounded absolutely by the Mists, so they don't need to *name* a world they can't exit, any more than you or I feel a need to name the universe.
at any rate ita an interesting concept- and could go along the lines of the old B&w movie where they shoot a capsule from a big gun at the moon, or maybe even take a hot air balloon up? if a DM decides that invention can exist (or a spelljammer ship, if one were to get sucked in)
if thats so, what does the sky above blutsper look like now?
i would think its gray mists and you can see the islands of terror and core floating up in the sky.. maybe even see the pocket domains through a haze of mist
But wouldn't people on the core be able to see the lightning storms on their moon?
On a side note, what would happen if a character capable of making spelljamming helms ended up in Ravenloft? I used to own a second edition Spelljammer sourcebook that made mention of this, but it had a cop-out answer of, "The Mists don't let them spelljam beyond the night sky." I hate that answer. Why shouldn't there be whole realms of terror in the darkness between the stars?
--any thoughts on this? NB
Of course, the illithids' domain could be hidden away on the moon's "dark" side....
Originally posted by Rotipher
Note that in "When Black Roses Bloom", large cracks appeared in the landscape of Sithicus due to Lord Soth's having 'abandoned' his realm for magical, virtual-reality-style daydreams. Creatures that fell into these crevices literally fell *through* the demiplanar ground, dropping into the Mists after several seconds of freefall. The clear implication is that the lands of Ravenloft are ultimately sitting on *Mists*, not a planet or other surface..
I'd cast that as one more vote for a gas giant. I remember reading someplace that the surface of the planet Jupiter is made up of densely compacted gas particles that are so close together as to seem solid but lack the chemical bonds between solids or liquids. This would make it easier for large land masses to be moved around during great conjunctions and such. Placing the domains on a gas giant means that the Dark Powers needn't provide gravity or sunlight which are two elements necessary to support the life present in the Misted Lands. To do it any other way would be wasteful.
Originally posted by Rotipher
While there are indeed ancient ruins scattered around Ravenloft, most seem to have been "Mist-napped" much as characters are. Certainly ruins like the feline, pseudo-Egyptian tomb from "The Awakening" and the well-shaped dungeon from the Requiem modules don't seem to have come from the same culture, or even from remotely-related cultures, despite their present geographic proximity to one another. [/b]
You may have a point there. They could still come from the same planet but your theory seems more likely.
Now you've got me curious, Manofevil. What's your pet "DP theory", that would make it necessary for them to conserve energy in this way? I'd have thought they had ample world-building power to spare, given how many of the domains have piles of surplus acres the local darklord never so much as bothers to think about, let alone visit. If they were really "hard up" for domain-creating energy, I'd've thought they'd have routinely omitted such window-dressing as a surface for Bluetspur, and trimmed non-urban domains like Lamordia or Mordent down to little more than the lord's lair and any closely-associated NPCs' homes.
For example, the sky of Nova Vaasa has multiple moons in it, while no moons are visible in Darkon or Sithicus.
The rest of the domains have one moon, if I recall correctly, or nothing has been said. I would guess that the sky above Hazlan appears like the sky above Thay of the "Forgotten Realms."
(I confess to only being certain about Nova Vaasa, Sithicus, Darkon, and Tepest, because I recently read up on those places.)
I am not usually a subscriber to the explanation "because it's magic," but in the case of the Ravenloft world, I don't think physics and reality as we know it applies.
I think the Ravenloft world is indeed flat. I think the land masses that exist within it are drifting on etheral mists, and the entering those mists at the edge of the land masses will get you dropped in some other place... maybe right back where you came from, maybe somewhere (or somewhen entirely different. I think time and space mean nothing within the Mists of Ravenloft.
I think the Mists appear solid or water-like depending on your mode of transportation--enter them in a boat, and you'll sail as if on water. Enter them on a horse, and you'll continue as though on solid groud. If you enter them while in flight, you will remain in a misty, moist and airy environment until the mists part and you find yourself flying through the air above a countryside or a city.
And speakig of Spelljamming... I wanted to do a Spelljammer domain that consisted of a single ship; it was mistbound and could never reach any destination. As for normal spelljamming, though, I don't think the ships could access Raveloft... but then I've always felt Spelljammer should be its own setting that remained clear of other established settings. (Except maybe FR, but then that's the "everythign but the kitchen sink" world.)
Hida Jiremi
(Jeremy Puckett)
And I rather second your opinion. It would be shame if the differing skies have been dumped. It's something that can be used with great impact, if only once in a... blue moon.
But the new Ravenloft has the same sky all over it, that's correct.
Interestingly, I think the RCS implies that that sky is only consistent for the Core, and that it might well be different for the Clusters and Islands-- but I don't feel like getting the book out right this second to look. :P
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
You are correct... I was trying to say that there are no *visible* moons.
It is now, actually.:D
Originally posted by Brandi
I suspect it was handwaved with the Grand Conjunction.
Interestingly, I think the RCS implies that that sky is only consistent for the Core, and that it might well be different for the Clusters and Islands-- but I don't feel like getting the book out right this second to look. :P
Actually, "The Awakening" specifically mentions Nova Vaasa's five moons. No handwaving there... unless EVERY land of the Core has five moons.
And that doesn't seem to be the case with Darkon at least.
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
Actually, "The Awakening" specifically mentions Nova Vaasa's five moons. No handwaving there...
Ah, but we haven't seen Nova Vaasa's Gazetteer writeup yet! It's possible that we'll be told the moons fused or such during the Great Upheaval...
Edit to add: Hm, looks like The Awakening takes place just after the GC. Well, it's not as if Nova Vaasa hasn't had self-contradicting info before...
For me RL works best when you play upon alienation and paranioa.
If the DP can enclose the sky, why can't they "filter" the sky in every domain?
I really like the idea of Bluetspur as the moon. i hadn't heard that before.
RL floats in the ethereal. Its not a planet. But if it was I'd vote to call it planent DOOOOMMM!!!! Bwah-hah-ha-ha!!!
-Eric Gorman
Originally posted by Irve
Different skies made a mess with Astorlogy profession, that's probably one of the reasons.
But the new Ravenloft has the same sky all over it, that's correct.
The Bluetspur has neither day nor night in the classic sense, but rather lightning bolts, or no lightning bolts.
Never made sense to me.
"The domains of a given cluster all typically share the same night sky and general climate."
Unless the reference was cut or changed in editing, Gaz V makes a specific, if passing, reference to Nova Vaasa's single moon.
The peoples of Ravenloft all live in a world magic is very real. And remember that the Domains form a sort of prison. Many people in Ravenloft never leave their home town, much less wander across the Domains. Those that do, like Dr Van Richten, know that their "world" is, in reality, many little worlds tied together. Hence the dramatic differences in everything from culture to environmental conditions as one crosses from Domain to Domain. And of course there is the strangeness that ensues whenever a Lord chooses to seal their border.
Natural philosophers (what scientists used to be called) in the Middle Ages on Earth put forward "scientific" notions that often included heavy does of theology, astrology, alchemy and general occultism into their theories about the world. The ones in Ravenloft simply have more substance to back them up.
The fact that the place is a demi-plane explains both it's isolation and it's expansion. Floating in the Ethereal, it is easier to seal off than a planet in the Prime. And because the Ethereal Plane holds the all the raw material from which hold worlds are formed, the Dark Powers can easily expand it. They're simply casting a deific version of the Genesis spell.
That's what they did when they created Barovia. They photo-copied the original and made a duplicate into which they Strahd and his people.
Outsider: "I'm from a place called [insert world name here]."
Ravenloft native: "Oh, yes? Is that on the same Mistway as Sri Raji? Strange realm, that one, not like home at all...."
Outsider: "No, no! I'm from another plane of existence!"
Native: "Picked up some of that odd herb they smoke in Sri Raji on your way here, then, I suppose. Those odd little folk there claim it puts them in touch with the spiritual realms too. My word, such queer ideas they have in foreign lands...."
Outsider: "No, blast you, I mean another planet altogether!!!"
Native: "Easy there, sir, perhaps that herb's gone to your head a wee bit, or the Mists have addled your wits for a moment. Really, I'm surprised the folk in [insert world name here] didn't teach you not to venture into the Mists, any lad should know better than that...."
So there's really no need to transplant Ravenloft to a planet, merely to make it more credible or to make it seem 'normal' to the natives. They're like fish who've lived their whole lives in a fish tank, so don't comprehend that blue gravel and little ceramic scuba-divers aren't 'normal' for a streambed.
And who is to say otherwise? History can quickly give way to myth without evidence to support it. Since it is not possible to simply leave Ravenloft at will and return to the real Barovia back on the Prime, who is to say that Strahd's Barovia is anything less than real itself?
People recently arrived from worlds in the Prime can try to explain how life on a normal planet is. But big round spheres of land and sea unbounded by misty borders probably sounds as preposterous to a native of Ravenloft as, well, the idea of a round Earth sounded to a Medieval European.
Will have to steal that idea for the upcoming (horribly, horribly modified) Thoughts of Darkness module
Originally posted by John W. Mangrum
R3E pg. 19, under "Geography of the Mists." I don't have it in front of me, but I assume it's in the same relative spot in the RL PHB:
"The domains of a given cluster all typically share the same night sky and general climate."
Unless the reference was cut or changed in editing, Gaz V makes a specific, if passing, reference to Nova Vaasa's single moon.
I guess I'll renew my question as to "Why?"
Where did the other five moons go?
And if all the Core has the same sky, what about Darkon? Or Sithicus?
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
I guess I'll renew my question as to "Why?"
Where did the other five moons go?
And if all the Core has the same sky, what about Darkon? Or Sithicus?
Sithicus still has Nuitari, albeit with white and red mixed in now. I never realised Darkon had a different sky to the Core (I don't have the GH).
My question is if they weren't allowed to mention Soth, why Nuitari?
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
Sithicus still has Nuitari, albeit with white and red mixed in now. I never realised Darkon had a different sky to the Core (I don't have the GH).
My question is if they weren't allowed to mention Soth, why Nuitari?
Demands of the folks who granted the license? I doubt they demanded: "The sky must be the same over the Core."
I could be misremembering, but I thought there was something in the GAZ about Darkon's moon not being visible--it came up previously in this thread as well, I think.
Of course, if there is just one moon mentioned in the Nova Vaasa sky, I suppose the other four could have been non-visible, either at the extreme end of waxing or waning.
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
I never realised Darkon had a different sky to the Core (I don't have the GH).
Well, as of Gaz2, the moon inexplicably disappears/fails to rise over Darkon on Darkest Night (the winter solstice), but I get the impression they would see the same set of stars as other Core residents. Actually, a map of the constellations of the Core would make for a right interesting article...
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
My question is if they weren't allowed to mention Soth, why Nuitari?
I seem to recall one of the authors mentioning that they were allowed to mention Soth by name, they just weren't told about it until after the Gazetteer was written. Since any statement beginning with 'I seem to recall' will earn certain wrath from the King of Darkon, though, I wouldn't trust my statement until someone more reliable (like the person who said it) confirms that I'm correct.
The only thing that differentiates the Core from the Islands is that it is possible to move from one domain to another without having to traverse the Mists. Unless a lord has sealed their border, there is no other impediment.
But that doesn't mean that crossing from one domain to another isn't a shocking experience, and it would certainly explain why many people in Ravenloft don't travel around very much. Each domain is essentially a demiplane within the demiplane.
This fear (a common thread in Ravenloft) explains why residents of "low magic" domains like Lamordia aren't more aware of and involved with magic, despite the nearby presence of domains where magic is much more common, such as Darkon. To all intents and purposes, it's practically another world.
A simple thing like the sky need not be the same. Heck, on Earth the Southern and Northern hemispheres look out on completely different parts of the sky. The Alpha Centuri system forms one of the brightest stars in the night sky, but I cannot see it from where I live. So it's not inconceivable for people to believe that there's different views of the heavens in different parts of their "world", especially if they've never seen anything else.
Originally posted by Bob the Efreet
I seem to recall one of the authors mentioning that they were allowed to mention Soth by name, they just weren't told about it until after the Gazetteer was written. Since any statement beginning with 'I seem to recall' will earn certain wrath from the King of Darkon, though, I wouldn't trust my statement until someone more reliable (like the person who said it) confirms that I'm correct.
Specifically, throughout the years we wrote for Arthaus, one of the only clear statements we ever received about what the licensing agreement with WotC would allow us to say, despite numerous requests for further clarification, was "No Soth, no Vecna." In a more general sense, no overt connections to other settings, since the license allowed us to reference Ravenloft and the core materials only. And the latter part of that was something we by and large pieced together on our own through trial and error.
Then, at this year's Gen Con, after work on Gaz IV had come and gone and we'd had to bend over backward to avoid using Soth's name, the developers said, I think when we asked again for clarification, "No, Soth is fine." Then they kindly explained to us the policy of downplaying other settings that we'd established with their predecessor before they came along.
As for why some names were used and some weren't, that traces back to R3E. We purposefully changed the tribal name of Vorostokov's inhabitants from the Vos to the Voros, assuming that we wouldn't be allowed to directly reference the Birthright connection Domains of Dread had tacked onto the domain. We initially overlooked the names of the ethnic groups in Hazlan, however, so the original Forgotten Realms names went into the first draft unaltered. We expected a request for a name change to come in our redlines, so we whipped up a pair of replacements, but the request never came. Thus, the book changed one ethnic group's name, but left two intact. After that we decided to take a much more wait and see approach, occasionally leaving a term in the book just to see if it would make the cut, since that was our only reliable way of discovering whether it could.
Originally posted by John W. Mangrum
Specifically, throughout the years we wrote for Arthaus, one of the only clear statements we ever received about what the licensing agreement with WotC would allow us to say, despite numerous requests for further clarification, was "No Soth, no Vecna." In a more general sense, no overt connections to other settings, since the license allowed us to reference Ravenloft and the core materials only. And the latter part of that was something we by and large pieced together on our own through trial and error.
Then, at this year's Gen Con, after work on Gaz IV had come and gone and we'd had to bend over backward to avoid using Soth's name, the developers said, I think when we asked again for clarification, "No, Soth is fine." Then they kindly explained to us the policy of downplaying other settings that we'd established with their predecessor before they came along.
As for why some names were used and some weren't, that traces back to R3E. We purposefully changed the tribal name of Vorostokov's inhabitants from the Vos to the Voros, assuming that we wouldn't be allowed to directly reference the Birthright connection Domains of Dread had tacked onto the domain. We initially overlooked the names of the ethnic groups in Hazlan, however, so the original Forgotten Realms names went into the first draft unaltered. We expected a request for a name change to come in our redlines, so we whipped up a pair of replacements, but the request never came. Thus, the book changed one ethnic group's name, but left two intact. After that we decided to take a much more wait and see approach, occasionally leaving a term in the book just to see if it would make the cut, since that was our only reliable way of discovering whether it could.
Sounds like a real mish-mash of policies. I find it incredible to believe that the developers made such little attempt to tell you the stipulations.
I also thought about spelljamming in Ravenloft. There was a reference somewhere that said spelljaming does not work....but yet we have some "Spelljammer" monsters that supposedly appear in Ravenloft. (including one that cannot appear inside a crystal sphere)
I thought it would be neat for the PCs to find a spelljamming ship and to try to escape from Barovia using it........they would end up on Barovia's moon and find out that the entire moon was alive!
I do like the idea of Bluetspur being on the moon....but perhaps if there are indeed different moons, then Bluetspur could be on one of them.
It sounds like the designers want to make the core have only one moon now.......that does make more sense, but I also want to know "what happened to the others?"
Well, the moon is only one problem.........now what are the stars?