I think that the Ravenloft Developers are very disrespectful to Ravenloft Fans, and this is not the first time it happens in this way. First was the Ravenloft: Player's Handbook (I'm not going to talk about previous books and the quality of their content), a serious quasi-swindle for me. Of course it has new material, but all of it was nearly useless and very out of place.
And now this monster book. I have all the Ravenloft Material printed to this day (from the Black Box to the last gazetteer) and I'm aware that the quality of the Ravenloft books are the worst ever... At least some authors are doing the best, and some of the books have a good content that make me ignore the many faults and inconsistence about presentation or rules.
I feel better now. I really need to say all this because if I don't I'll explode.
Please forgive my English, I'm from Spain and I don't talk it very well.
Greetings.
So, no I don't think it's a swindle, but that's only because I bought the new 3.5 Ravenloft re-releases not expecting much of a change. The moral of the story? Low expectations always lead to pleasant surprises.
VNM
Matthew L. Martin
It seems from what you're sayin' they didn't follow the new 3.5 rules for calculating monster skill points and feats.
How about the other changes - did they at least convert to the new damage reduction system? Are all the facings for the monsters perfectly square, or is there still any 3.0 non-square facing?
So what you're sayin' is, White Wolf just slapped a 3.5 label on some 3.0 monsters?
Exactly that.
They skip all the hardest work. They only add to their 3.0 monsters some new rules like the damage reduction and the like. I feel really cheated with this book.
So who do they have editing for them?
Why are the developers still the developers?
Why are some of their writers still writing for them when others are not?
Because, really. Every time one of these Q&A's have cropped up, I've seen nothing to assuage my fears about the Ravenloft line.
The only thing that's been reassuring at all has been Steve Miller mentioning he'll be offering up his own contributions to it.
I've a few more words I'd like to write at the moment, but I don't believe the moderators would appreciate them.
Suffice to say, not up-dating the skill points and feats, which should have been an easily done, minor thing, just makes for some poor people to be having in the quality-control department for the Ravenloft line.
Painfully poor.
The only thing that's been reassuring at all has been Steve Miller mentioning he'll be offering up his own contributions to it.
If only they give him some control about the Ravenloft Line. But I fear he will be only a co-author in the Bloodline book.
I always believe that the better developers and producers of a product will be the ones that really know it and more important the ones that love it.
I was playing Ravenloft since the day it was born, and I'm really sad to see how the things are going. Yes, I know that someone could say that: what is better? To have Ravenloft back as a poor shadow of itself? or, to have nothing at all?... well I'm not sure now... because I'm not sure if I'm going to buy the next product. After all, I can understand the inconsistencies, the mistakes and all the bad stuff when I'm downloading some free fan made net book, but actually some of these net books are by now really better and more seriously made than some Arthaus Ravenloft Products.
Un-friggin'-believable. How do those two "developers" still even have JOBS?!?
They have to be two of the laziest, most incompetent people to ever work in the industry...
I'm forced to conclude White Wolf could care less about their customers and is only out to make a FAST d20 BUCK, or they would have canned those two broads long ago.
Un-friggin'-believable. How do those two "developers" still even have JOBS?!?
They have to be two of the laziest, most incompetent people to ever work in the industry...
I'm forced to conclude White Wolf could care less about their customers and is only out to make a FAST d20 BUCK, or they would have canned those two broads long ago.
It can be said Louder but not clearer.
Originally posted by Falkovnian Renegade
If only they give him some control about the Ravenloft Line. But I fear he will be only a co-author in the Bloodline book.
As I know Steve Miller is writing about half of the book.
As I know Steve Miller is writing about half of the book.
That's what i said, he is the co-author of this book. I wished they could give him some control of the Ravenloft line.
I just know its been removed. Alot of people were very upset about WHY the board was eliminated. Speculation ran rampant.
In the end, it came down to these important considerations:
In brief, our decision to close the boards has to do with resources. We have an extremely limited marketing budget, and it made more sense to us to devote those resources to other aspects of our web site than to maintaining boards, especially when a lot of authors have message boards on their sites and when there are many other forums on the web for discussing our novels.
Quite frankly, we were influenced as well by a lot of the negative discussion and author bashing that's gone on. Too often a small group of people have hijacked threads to attack authors and their works, driving many authors off the boards altogether. It didn't make a lot of sense to us to sponsor a forum dominated by attacks on the very products we're trying to sell.
I agree with you that a lot of people may be upset by our decision, but I think it's for the best. However, as I said, I'll discuss the idea of some sort of Magic storyline board with the folks here, and we'll see.
Thanks again for your input.
Best,
Peter Archer
and...
I understand that it's far more interesting to speculate about corporate conspiracies, but there really isn't one here. I'd be less than honest if I didn't admit that the final decision was made easier in light of the volume of extremely negative and insensitive chatter last fall that distracted authors, and the Publishing and Web team staffs alike. We take very seriously our responsibilities to our fans, our authors, and our company to publish the best shared-world fiction and bring it to market in the best possible light. Now everyone will have a little more time to do just that.
Mary Kirchoff
Vice President, Publishing
Wizards of the Coast
I'm just sayin...
Yes, yes, we can all see how much you folx love the setting or you wouldn't be so passionate in your complaints, but voicing your concern once is enough. There really is no need to go on and on and on, which only serves to stoke the flames of your flaming, as it were. You may all mean well, but feeding off of each other's negativity won't help do anything other than degenerate into childish insults and name-calling. I won't go so far as to prove my point by quoting one of the above posts....
Say what you have to say and be done with it. Let's get on to the more fun and creative aspects of a Ravenloft message board. Which, I assume, is why you're all here in the first place, isn't it?
VNM
Originally posted by VNM
Thanks, MSD. That definitely needed saying (quoting?). I've only been back to the boards for a few days, but the volume of negativity and destructive (vs. constructive) criticism has greatly outweighed the good, constructive threads.
Yes, yes, we can all see how much you folx love the setting or you wouldn't be so passionate in your complaints, but voicing your concern once is enough. There really is no need to go on and on and on, which only serves to stoke the flames of your flaming, as it were.
Say what you have to say and be done with it. Let's get on to the more fun and creative aspects of a Ravenloft message board. Which, I assume, is why you're all here in the first place, isn't it?
You do have a point; going on and on about something doesn't serve anyone particularly well. No need to go beating a dead horse, right? For example, another thread on Champions of Darkness, or folks opinions on the Kargatane, really aren't going to do much. Most people already have their opinions on them, and very little is going to change that. So a rash of new negative commentary on them serves no purpose, outside of the occasional individual who doesn't know better and asks for folks opinion without having read those previous threads.
However no such thread has really cropped up in regards to Denizens of Dread, now has it?
Furthermore, I'm not sure what good there is to be said about it. Anything decent about the book would have existed before the revision, as to my knowledge, it doesn't really have much new material in it. Perhaps if it cleaned up previous flaws that already existed in the original book it revised, and if such is the case at all, well, I do think, out of fairness, those should be brought up. Presumably pre-existing flaws were not cleaned up, however.
There's also a difference between opinionated criticisms (writing style of different authors, for example) and factual criticisms. I'll assume Falkovnian Renegade isn't lying, and that the skill points and feats do not sync up with what the monster should have in 3.5. So being critical of Arthaus on this matter isn't off-base.
Now, I do realize a goodly amount of commentary about the Ravenloft line has been negative as of late, but that's only appropriate considering two of the most recent books out for the setting have been revisions of previous products, which will nearly always stir up that "I don't want to buy this twice" response. And though I don't really want to stir up some bad blood, but most of the negativity surrounding threads on the fourth Gazetteer really weren't the product of the regular fan and Ravenloft devotee...
And if it keeps up when the revisions are out of the way...?
Well, as I said, beating a dead horse doesn't do much good after a while. Nor for that matter do unsupported complaints. But a supported criticism that has not yet been made or overly discussed - such as this one on Denizen's of Darkness - is perfectly valid. It's one thing to think twice about running your mouth off because of, say, personal reasons, another to be worried about saying something bad about a book when it's an essentially reasonable criticism. Furthermore, in regards to old arguments, if further support keeps cropping up in the form of new books that only further solidify past complaints, well, that's also fairly valid.
And while I do come to these boards for a sharing of fun and creativity, it's also to avoid bad books or to warn other people off from them - even if I did buy a book that lacked the proper skill points and feats for its monsters, I'd like to know that ahead of time.
Ahh well.