The merits of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The merits of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2004 16:29:08 What can people say about this Greyhawk based adventure? Does it work as a continuation of the 80's classic or is it better as a stand alone adventure? Did Monte truly consider Greyhawk when creating it or did he just work it into Greyhawk with a few adjustments?

I'll soon be a PC in this module, so try to answer without too many spoilers. Thanks.
#2
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2004 16:38:47 I think Return to the Temple of Elemental Evilwas a title decided upon to make some easy $$$, much like he chose to use Unearthed Arcana and Vecna Reborn.

Now, I dunno about Unearthed Arcana, but IMO RtToEE and Vecna Reborn were absolutely horrible.

He's a smart businessman, that Monte.

Next time he does a Greyhawk mod, I'm sure he'll use a title with Mordenkainen or Tharizdun in it. You know, for the easy buck $$$.
#3
zombiegleemax
Feb 29, 2004 1:00:27 No matter what, the Return is a great campaing. Kinda of kick-in-the-door style, but im enjoying to DM it.

Its best as a stand alone (very long) adventure, but after you finish it, theres many details that can be further explored into new campaings; ill use the Thrommel plot after my group finish the Return.
#4
Greyson
Feb 29, 2004 2:13:47 I like Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, a lot. Of course, we can pedantically pick it apart and expose its shortcomings, because it has some.

But, it also has strengths. Yes, RttToEE picks up very well "after" the original 1985 clasic by Gygaz and Mentzer. I think Monte Cook did a great job of bringing the former story elements to the contemporary view of Greyhawk. Sure, some people disagree with story and plot devices, but they are still thoughtful and effective, I think.

Cook definitely "worked" in Greyhawk material. He is not a newcomer to the WoG. You can see enemations of early Greyhawk products in RttToEE. Yea, he contrived some elements, but he had to fill in a few holes. It is not only a stand-alone, but also a full-blown, long term campaign unto itself.

I think he did a great job. The best way to decide, is to get the adventure and review it yourself. And not just once. Skim through it, initially. After that, give it a thorough reading. Then decide.
#5
omote
Feb 29, 2004 11:53:34 I have to say RttToEE is just awesome! Yes, it is fairly greyhawk "lite," but there is clearly enough there that is definatly GH. As mentioned before, it is a straight up "kick-in-the-door-style adventure... and like also said above, it is way more then just an adventure... it is a full blown campaign of dungeon delving of the highest order. I'm currently in a "Return" campaign that is going just over a year and we play 3-4 times a month for 4 hours or so. The "goodness" factor will as nearly all modules do, come from the players and the DM themselves.

I personally like it very much. It's a great sequal IMO.

.........................Omote
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 01, 2004 0:30:26 If you enjoy the tactical aspect of D&D, you will love this module. You will have the opportunity to fight a remarkable number of different monsters upon many various and diverse battlegrounds. The module is truly a hallmark of 3rd Edition in that it will familiarize you with almost every subtlety the system has to offer. While some consider this overly-contrived, I think it makes for a challenging adventure, one that teaches you a lot about the game at the same time.

Concerning it's suitability as a sequel to TOEE, Mr. Cooke did his homework. You will find many familiar faces in the module and almost as many familiar dangers. There is some merit to the claim that the module doesn't feel particularly Greyhawky. It is relatively high magic and high fantasy compared to the GH campaigns I am used to. Nevertheless, it actually feels like a Gygax module, which I am pleased to say I enjoy. There are many clever puzzles, riddles, and traps, with a storyline that peels like an onion.

I would say the only flaw is the value of role-playing. Depending on your group and your DM, that may not be a problem. A good DM can make any role-play light module an enjoyable role-playing experience. But then again, I don't think 3rd Edition has ever masqueraded itself around as a heavy role-play system, so this really doesn't bother me. It isn't that the role-playing is bad. The NPCs are very nicely fleshed out and their motivations reasonable given the circumstances. However there is a temptation to treat the module as a Monty Haul campaign, and lazy or novice DMs tend to run it that way.

Overall, I give it the following scores:
Fun - 8 out of 10
Storyline - 7 out of 10
Combat Encounters - 9 out of 10
Role-playing Encounters - 6 out of 10
Greyhawk Conformity - 8 out of 10
Bottom Line - 7.6 out of 10
#7
Gnarley_Woodsman
Mar 01, 2004 7:09:47 I tell you what I know. The Return as presented can be considered a very long hack-fest dungeon crawl. However for those of us who have played and run the original module, or those who are willing to put in a little extra effort into NPC character development....the module/campaign can be an intense role playing experience.

My players didn't just play the module. The reprised thier roles from the original module whom had survived. The players searched the moat house and temple ruins themselves gathering qute a lot of intelligence then the module took on a whole new life! The players negotiated with the Viscount Langard of Verbobonc and the many Lords and Mayors of the region to contribute men, money, and materials to forming a large battle ready expiditionary force. The return for my group lasted 18 months of real time. Lets just say that under the tuteledge of the players the "Army" that was sent to the Crater Ridge mines was able to fend off the large amounts of temple troops while the heros tried to discover the details behind the plot, and whom was actually in control....these so called Doomdreamers.

The module has tremendous potential for good role-playing if proberly exploited!!!!

Good Gaming!!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2004 16:29:08	What can people say about this Greyhawk based adventure? Does it work as a continuation of the 80's classic or is it better as a stand alone adventure? Did Monte truly consider Greyhawk when creating it or did he just work it into Greyhawk with a few adjustments? I'll soon be a PC in this module, so try to answer without too many spoilers. Thanks.
#2 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2004 16:38:47	I think Return to the Temple of Elemental Evilwas a title decided upon to make some easy $$$, much like he chose to use Unearthed Arcana and Vecna Reborn. Now, I dunno about Unearthed Arcana, but IMO RtToEE and Vecna Reborn were absolutely horrible. He's a smart businessman, that Monte. Next time he does a Greyhawk mod, I'm sure he'll use a title with Mordenkainen or Tharizdun in it. You know, for the easy buck $$$.
#3 zombiegleemax Feb 29, 2004 1:00:27	No matter what, the Return is a great campaing. Kinda of kick-in-the-door style, but im enjoying to DM it. Its best as a stand alone (very long) adventure, but after you finish it, theres many details that can be further explored into new campaings; ill use the Thrommel plot after my group finish the Return.
#4 Greyson Feb 29, 2004 2:13:47	I like Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, a lot. Of course, we can pedantically pick it apart and expose its shortcomings, because it has some. But, it also has strengths. Yes, RttToEE picks up very well "after" the original 1985 clasic by Gygaz and Mentzer. I think Monte Cook did a great job of bringing the former story elements to the contemporary view of Greyhawk. Sure, some people disagree with story and plot devices, but they are still thoughtful and effective, I think. Cook definitely "worked" in Greyhawk material. He is not a newcomer to the WoG. You can see enemations of early Greyhawk products in RttToEE. Yea, he contrived some elements, but he had to fill in a few holes. It is not only a stand-alone, but also a full-blown, long term campaign unto itself. I think he did a great job. The best way to decide, is to get the adventure and review it yourself. And not just once. Skim through it, initially. After that, give it a thorough reading. Then decide.
#5 omote Feb 29, 2004 11:53:34	I have to say RttToEE is just awesome! Yes, it is fairly greyhawk "lite," but there is clearly enough there that is definatly GH. As mentioned before, it is a straight up "kick-in-the-door-style adventure... and like also said above, it is way more then just an adventure... it is a full blown campaign of dungeon delving of the highest order. I'm currently in a "Return" campaign that is going just over a year and we play 3-4 times a month for 4 hours or so. The "goodness" factor will as nearly all modules do, come from the players and the DM themselves. I personally like it very much. It's a great sequal IMO. .........................Omote
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 01, 2004 0:30:26	If you enjoy the tactical aspect of D&D, you will love this module. You will have the opportunity to fight a remarkable number of different monsters upon many various and diverse battlegrounds. The module is truly a hallmark of 3rd Edition in that it will familiarize you with almost every subtlety the system has to offer. While some consider this overly-contrived, I think it makes for a challenging adventure, one that teaches you a lot about the game at the same time. Concerning it's suitability as a sequel to TOEE, Mr. Cooke did his homework. You will find many familiar faces in the module and almost as many familiar dangers. There is some merit to the claim that the module doesn't feel particularly Greyhawky. It is relatively high magic and high fantasy compared to the GH campaigns I am used to. Nevertheless, it actually feels like a Gygax module, which I am pleased to say I enjoy. There are many clever puzzles, riddles, and traps, with a storyline that peels like an onion. I would say the only flaw is the value of role-playing. Depending on your group and your DM, that may not be a problem. A good DM can make any role-play light module an enjoyable role-playing experience. But then again, I don't think 3rd Edition has ever masqueraded itself around as a heavy role-play system, so this really doesn't bother me. It isn't that the role-playing is bad. The NPCs are very nicely fleshed out and their motivations reasonable given the circumstances. However there is a temptation to treat the module as a Monty Haul campaign, and lazy or novice DMs tend to run it that way. Overall, I give it the following scores: Fun - 8 out of 10 Storyline - 7 out of 10 Combat Encounters - 9 out of 10 Role-playing Encounters - 6 out of 10 Greyhawk Conformity - 8 out of 10 Bottom Line - 7.6 out of 10
#7 Gnarley_Woodsman Mar 01, 2004 7:09:47	I tell you what I know. The Return as presented can be considered a very long hack-fest dungeon crawl. However for those of us who have played and run the original module, or those who are willing to put in a little extra effort into NPC character development....the module/campaign can be an intense role playing experience. My players didn't just play the module. The reprised thier roles from the original module whom had survived. The players searched the moat house and temple ruins themselves gathering qute a lot of intelligence then the module took on a whole new life! The players negotiated with the Viscount Langard of Verbobonc and the many Lords and Mayors of the region to contribute men, money, and materials to forming a large battle ready expiditionary force. The return for my group lasted 18 months of real time. Lets just say that under the tuteledge of the players the "Army" that was sent to the Crater Ridge mines was able to fend off the large amounts of temple troops while the heros tried to discover the details behind the plot, and whom was actually in control....these so called Doomdreamers. The module has tremendous potential for good role-playing if proberly exploited!!!! Good Gaming!!