DS struck me as an almost perfect setting:
--Less power via items, down to the CHARACTERS' individual abilities.
--Intriguing and different from standard Tolkeinesque realms.
--Harsh unforgiving world, but interesting.
--Survival is as much a problem as "adventuring".
--Wonderful villains in the Sorcerer-Kings and templars, plus slavers, begloi etc.
--Gorgeous art work/styles etc: the image of the Belgoi waving its bell with a caravan nearby is still one of my all time favourite paintings.
So, you have all that, and then...the "official" stuff comes in kills off Sorceror Kings and has a background story I LOATHE with a passion...gah!
Killing off Kalak etc really botched the whole damned setting, because that should be things left to the *PLAYERS* to achieve. It's fine having "world events" but the way it went really screwed up the entire setting for me and others.
Rather than shoving "official" stuff down folks throats, DS should offer the setting as it was ORIGINALLY, and let the PLAYERS get on with it, and provide an official storyline if folk want to use that.
It's like what killed the Forgotten Realms for many players was that with official stuff always coming out, you couldn't run yer own style/idea without massive conflicts with "officialdom" :/
As DM one day I'd like to run Athas 3.5 ED, where Kalak still reigns, starts out from the very beginning, and I can run it with my history etc.
Originally posted by Silverblade The Enchanter
As DM one day I'd like to run Athas 3.5 ED, where Kalak still reigns, starts out from the very beginning, and I can run it with my history etc.
Specific design goal of DS3: It's era agnostic. Go ahead, set your game ... say, some 200 years before anything happens in the PP. Or perhaps even earlier, during the war between Yaramuke and Urik, if you need a point where something at least interesting is going on in the background. Sure, you have less support from setting material ... but that seems to be a good bit of what you don't like.
Nothing in the rules requires you to be playing in the AoH.
I also love the setting the way it is presented in the original boxed set.
And I have to confess that I also completely ignore Denning's novels for my campaign. It is a great setting; and then his protagonists go and slay sorcererkings left and right, in the end killing The Dragon… :-( THE DRAGON, one of the coolest things on athas...
I wouldn't judge that drastic about the books, though. They still are good to read and give a good description of the feeling of athas.
But, as flip said, a DM is god, even in Dark Sun :-)
Just my two ceramic bits, don't lightning bolt me…
However, none of the DS campaigns that I have run take place after the death of Borys and the SKs. They are too good of adversaries just to throw away.
The only problem (for me as a DM) this presents is that when Dregoth's dray forces start coming to the surface there is no place for them to go to infiltrate and make the population susceptible to invasion.
Feel free to do whatever you want. It's your campaign.
Hehe, I know folk love Dark Sun, just as they do the Realms and Ravenloft, but the adherence to "cannon" I think really SNAFU's way too much of the creativity and fun for DMs and players.
Oh I liked the 1st novel, after that well so-so.
But killing of the Sorceror Kings as "cannon" just kind of blew it all up :/
I decided in my campaign that the ancient history of Athas revolved around the Mind FLayers wanting to put out the Sun. To do this they needed power, psionic power, so they influenced people and events for centuries, causing more and more psionically active people to "awake".
Then they "taped into" the psychically charged ether asiit were...bleeidng fof power. Meanwhile, Athas above, the nations and peoples growing in increasing power themselves, becoming more technologically aware as well ended up with a sort of 19th century mixture of steam, cannons, psionics, gods and magic, proving a very volatile world.
The illithids finally struck staritng a process to basically cause the Sun to go Nova, but controlled in such a way that it wouln't explode cataclysmically but instead "burnout" the Star. During this, vast wars broke out on the surface, the Gods realised what was going on, mayhem ensued. The illithids plan called for the star to burn through elements faster and faster, reaching iron, the fusion process would die. To stop that the gods tried to alter Reality, but assailed by illihid attacks, wars etc, things went to hell.
The backlash resulted in eliminating a great deal of the iron and other heavy elements from the entire system, the SUn was left as a red giant, the gods were either destroyed or flung across the cosmos and Athas got got sealed from much planar travel (in an attempt to block the Astral hopping illithids).
So now millenia later, the Sorceror-Kings, using lost knowledge, tap into the elemental realms and the souls of those who die in their arenas for power.
Works for me ;)
I'd love to see Dark Sun return as a fully published setting though *sigh*. Athas.org has done a great job on the converisons
Each to their own, I guess. While I agree that the events in the novels should have been done in adventures, I'm rather happy with most of the outcomes. Post pentad Athas simply has a bit more character to it, IMO. I normally begin my campaigns pre Age of Heroes, then run the game into the Age of Heroes.
Well idea is, the illithids were screwing with the fusion cycle...which sort-of-ends with iron, after which it goes, well pear shaped big style ;)
The gods tried to reverse that in the Sun, but it screwed up big time, it didn't just revert iron to hydrogen in the Sun, but across the entire Solar system, including Athas.
Which is a mondo bad thing for a variety of reasons. They managed to halt it before it went too far, or too severe, shielding as many living creatures as they could (as losing iron from your body would be rather nasty, never mind being filled with hydrogen!)
Or os the story goes ;)
Yah I always like taking a setting and running with it in what ever way seems fun. Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Undermountain and the original 1st ed Forgotten Realms boxed set I thought were awesome.
I like the novels best for the way the portray ceertain elements of Athas' folk and their societies, and as said, the art work was just outstanding. It has to be said that TSR gave birth to a heck of a lot of wonderful imagery.
One way that I ran it, Silverblade (and I've brought this up many times in many posts), is something like this:
The SKs are powerful sorcerers and powerful psions. They have been alive for at least 2-4,000 years. The first half of that was involved in wars that were wiping out, among other things, other powerful (preserving) sorcerers. Think they didn't have contingency spells in effect in case they were killed? Ha HA!
In a not-so recent campaign I ran, all SKs not killed directly by Rajaat or a closely-related SK (Hamanu and Sielba would likely know each others' secrets), they simply came back to life later. Sacha and Wyan were held in stasis due to their "undeath," but once they were "killed," their contingency spells went into effect. There's a reason the other SKs kept them in this state and did not kill them outright. Imagine the PCs horror when these SKs they thought were dead suddenly start popping back to life, with the PCs at the top of their poop-lists.
Yar, I know Borys and Abalach-Re were technically killed by Rajaat because of the Scourge's origin, but I don't buy it. And make that "Canon," people. Please.
Sacha and Wyan were held in stasis due to their "undeath," but once they were "killed," their contingency spells went into effect.
I like the rational logic behind this one. It always pithed me off why the SKs didn't simply kill the little buggers when they had the chance. There's been more than a couple threads that talk about how to bring back one Champ or another as a way to 'fix' the novels impact without ignoring them all together.
Ah nice take on it!
Yah they are just such wonderfully good, er, bad villians it's a total waste killing them off.
Quality of a setting is often impacted by the opponents oen deals with, Templars ands the Sorceror Kings were some of the best, ever.
I like making up lots of NPCs who the heroes work up through, merely knowing them as feared names, such as a bestial half-giant templar overseer in the Brickpits of Tyr and his psionically powerful colleague. Longer you know a villian, more they nark you off, more you enjoy giving it back to them!
Hm, Athas the movie...?
Hm, Athas the movie...?
Why not? It almost got turned into a cartoon way back. Glad that never happened . . . D&D hasn't had much success in my eyes on TV or the silver screen.
Originally posted by Silverblade The Enchanter
Hm, Athas the movie...?
I can see one happening in the future.
;)
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
I could see Dark Sun as a "Dark Water" or "Scooby Doo" kind of cartoon. Thank god that didn't happen. Ack.
I actually liked both, heh.
Scooby Doo when I was younger, and still do.
Dark Water when it came out was a great idea I thought.
But yeah, not sure Athas would have gotten the image it deserved in a cartoon.
Think about it (and take your timeline to help).
I'll start with Rajaat and his wars and champions, which is far enough in the timeline. He starts a Jihad against preservers in -4312. In -3542 (almost 800 years later) the cleansing wars start. 230 years later, Kobolds are gone. 600 years after that, goblins and pixies are gone. And so forth. Now we can imagine their were lots of battles in those years, but major landmarks only happened with centuries in between. In fact, their's scarcely any major event happening without their being a entire King's age between each of them.
The busiest king's age before the 190th (current) is the 160th (-2310) where Kalak kills off the last ogres and Nibenay kills the last gnome the year later, Keltis visits the Last sea the same year too. Then 35 years later, Qwith is orderer by rajaat to start an experiment. Some cities are officially buried under the sit 2 years later, and Irikos is slain while saking bodach 2 years later, finalising the events of that busy age.
Now, lets see. Campaign starts around the death of Kalak. Lets start 2 years before, and see.
- Obsidian man is freed, rampages through urik, and is lost in the desert
- The next year, Korgunard learns of Oronis of Kurn, travels to him, and learns the Preserver Metamorphosis Spell.
- The year after that (year 1), Kalak is slain, Tithian becomes king, and the slaves of Tyr are freed.
Now thats ok for 3 years, and while I do like the events liked directly to the pentad, a lot more is happenning at the same time.
Prism Pentad events:
- year 2, Urik attacks Tyr, Crimson legion formed, defeat of urik's army, Tyr attempts to attack Urik, repelled by Hamanu. Balic also has to make up for the levy of Tyr.
- year 3, Sadira goes to the pristine tower, becomes a Sun wizard. Fight between the Dragon and Kled heroes.
- year 9, Tithian learns of the location of the Dark lens, travels there, Agis killed.
-year 10, Abalach-Re killed by Sadira, Dragon killed by Rikus, Rajaat is freed, Ur Draxa mostly destroyed, Androphinis banished in the Black, Tektuctitlay slain, Rajaat'essence emprisoned again, tithian absorbed by the Cerulan storm, which is created then.
Ok, thats major, but still possible, within 10 years, as heores take great actions. But at the same time:
- Korgunard becomes an Avangion but is slain shortly after.
- Psionatrix is used by the order. Psionic powers suppressed. Finally disabled.
- Gith find a way to breach into Athas and stage an invasion, which is foiled.
- Messenger fails to appear.
- Dregoth returns and stages an invasion of the world above New Guistenal.
- Great earthquake hits. Great Rift formed.
And now, in the following what, 5 years? We'll have: Dregoth ascending. Kreen invasion. Space halflings???
Looks kind of weird that there would be so much world shaping events happening just now. This seems mostly because of conveniance or need for actions. I'd say athas could be cut some slack...
BTW, when I said this happenned to other settings too, just look at Rokugan (the oriental setting) or Dragonlance.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
Personally, I really like the Athasian history,
really big snip
.
Shei,
Would you not say that this was just the area in the timeline that the designers chose to place a magnifying glass on ???
Although we have a complete time line going back thousands of years the recent events are the one that have the greatest depth to them due to the fact that this was the area the all the books and modules were set in.
There have been some recent theads about peoples Blue Age or Green Age pojects which will flesh out the other parts of the timeline.
Who know what might battles the pixies had against the SKs in that 800 years :D
flindbar
----------------------------------------------------
Piece's of eight
Piece's of eight
Piece's of ....... squawk
Parroty error !
Even so, many events happen frequently in game worlds at the "present" simply because of the nature of games - to keep people interested, many designers advance their games' timeline with major events. Dark Sun had it kind of pre-emptively happen. Dragonlance.... well.... Actually, IIRC, The Dragons of Summer Flame was supposed to be the last book for Dragonlance, then it was continued by TSR, who chose authors who had no previous contact with DL (like Jean Rabe), who ended up getting about as much information from TSR as Lynn Abbey did for Dark Sun, and as such, had many inaccuracies in her books. Then TSR was trying to release Dragonlance in a system that was supposed to draw customers from the increasing numbers of players who liked the World of Darkness free-flowing storytelling design to them, but resulted in a rather.... infuriating system. TSR gets bought by WotC, and then WotC stops the "Fifth Age" system all together. They re-release D&D, and originally promise to include Dragonlance as a campaign world they will publish, meanwhile, the designs to change the world of Dragonlance again begin to appear in the novels (renaming the Knights of Takhisis, etc.). WotC decides not to release DL as a campaign world for D&D, but rather just stick to the novels, and hands the world over to a fansite much like how Dark Sun was handed. That fansite develops DL a bit for d20, then Margaret Weis gets permission to publish Dragonlance through her company, and The War of Souls Trilogy changes the world once more, bringing it to a point that incorperates many different elements through the series, and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting for d20 is released... Many of the massive, sweeping changes that happened to Dragonlance were a pretty direct result of how it was being handled between the different companies who worked on it. As such, it had many.... really drastic events happen all at once. (I could be slightly inaccurate with my description there, but I think I got the overall gist of it).
The prism pentad events, the return of dregoth, the use of the psionatrix, the great earthquake, the failed githyanki invasion, the missing mesenger, all of these happened within the last 10 years, and they have little or no link with each other. (the great earthquake might be liked with Rajaat's defeat, but from what I understand, the point of origin is western, not eastern.) Of course, you would zoom in, as you say, on the last 10 years, but the events described above would certainly have appeared on the timeline anywhere (except prehaps the failed githyanki invasion, since it never actually occured).
Its simply more likely the writers wanted ongoing action fro their setting. While not really a bad thing, it can be somewhat unrealistic.
Its the same thing with other settings too. I just started immersing myself in Rokugan, and in the last years, all hell breaks loose, litterally, a few times over.
Anyways, I don't see world shattering events as a necessity in a gaming world. I think the fall of Kalak is a great starting point for a campaign and adventurers, though I live really easy with the rest of the story (except the space halflings, though I could manage with even that). However, were I an athasian, I'd really be asking myself: what's gonna happen next???
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
........
However, were I an athasian, I'd really be asking myself: what's gonna happen next???
That would really depend what sort of athasian you were ;)
IMHO this is a good thing, a world left wide open, a world in flux.
The politics in the whole region have take a sudden lurch sideways with some SKs and Borys's departure, the messenger is missing and the Tyr slaves are free.
Excitement and adventure await the bold. :D
There are still plenty of other SKs to provide the necessary and even greater threats emerging - dregoth and the drey, the Kreen invasion ..............
..... and my personal favourites - the ilithids.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
The prism pentad events, the return of dregoth, the use of the psionatrix, the great earthquake, the failed githyanki invasion, the missing mesenger, all of these happened within the last 10 years, and they have little or no link with each other. (the great earthquake might be liked with Rajaat's defeat, but from what I understand, the point of origin is western, not eastern.) Of course, you would zoom in, as you say, on the last 10 years, but the events described above would certainly have appeared on the timeline anywhere (except prehaps the failed githyanki invasion, since it never actually occured).
Its simply more likely the writers wanted ongoing action fro their setting. While not really a bad thing, it can be somewhat unrealistic.
Dont forget the Curelean storm which is slowly, but surely, nearing the Tyr region within a few years or so.(Rajaat will have its way if he's not stop.... eventually: what is time to an immortal elemental of.... storm!!!)
I like to think that the events mentionned above are canon ideas for DMs. Keep in mind that they dont have to happen all in the next year.
1-- The Messenger could be lost for an other *X* years without bothering any event on Athas.
2--The Kreen invasion could be preceeded by scouts for some 2-3 years before atempting a massive assault.( they could come-up with the information that an army of Humanoid Dragons(Drays) are at war in all the tableland. When they return to the crimson savanha to report, the kreen leaders decide to wait an see what 's to come.)
4-- Dregoth's revenge is (to me) the most logical event to happen soon.
5-- As for the Space halflings. Although I do like the race very much, I dont think it would go very far.(unless you want Athas to return to a new Blue Age wich could coincide with the *new* world Rajaat's storm is atcually(as in now) and activelly attempting(to my logical brain) as we speak. Wich I wouldn't mind
)Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
5-- As for the Space halflings. Although I do like the race very much, I dont think it would go very far.(unless you want Athas to return to a new Blue Age wich could coincide with the *new* world Rajaat's storm is atcually(as in now) and activelly attempting(to my logical brain) as we speak. Wich I wouldn't mind
The space halfling invasion, judging by what I got from Lynn Abbey, is going to be a long, long, long, drug out thing, and will be probably be soon, very soon.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions once I post the information, if I can post the information, still working on that.
However, it's not something as silly as I, or others, thought it would be either, and I wouldn't mind cleaning it up some and adapting it to my own campaigns.
As far as I am concerned, the Dark Sun history is just an optional guildeline. You don't have to DM Dark Sun using it.
Dark Sun the movie???
I have a few good ideas for some short Dark Sun films or videos. Just wait until I get my hands on flash or some other animation program. I will, "Wow" you all!!!1!
However, it's not something as silly as I, or others, thought it would be either, and I wouldn't mind cleaning it up some and adapting it to my own campaigns.
Ooooo . . . that's almost blasphemy. I'd have to see it to believe it. Hurry up and get something posted about it. I'm now dying inside with curiosity.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
The space halfling invasion, judging by what I got from Lynn Abbey, is going to be a long, long, long, drug out thing, and will be probably be soon, very soon.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions once I post the information, if I can post the information, still working on that.
However, it's not something as silly as I, or others, thought it would be either, and I wouldn't mind cleaning it up some and adapting it to my own campaigns.
I know, I know!! It seems as I'm babbling about writing a story since a few months already, but doing nothing. But I'm not
Althought the Jihun-Nish's story is several ideas an plots written here and there at the moment, it is still my main project for DS.That said, the up-coming elaboration from Lynn Abbey's communication with you could jeopardize a big part of my story in the atempt for *it* to become an official story( cant stop me from hopping, cant ya!!
) Hmmm let me see here :whatsthis , Ok cool I got it: found a way to end my story without intefering into the space halfling's affairs. Until we get more information on this new space halfling mystery.( I must agree though that we will probably hear the end of Lynn abbay's claim on the subject before the end of my story as it is quite slow going........ sorry.)Speaking of SHI, I'm not sure where this will bring Athas's feel as we know it but I do beleive it wont tear it appart. (maybe It'll bring more knowledge and power to the rhul-Thaun but not at the expanse of destroying the tyr region as we know it.
My 2cents
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
I'll let you draw your own conclusions once I post the information, if I can post the information, still working on that.
Could you please tell me(us) other then the fact that you probably wrote her an e-mail, why is she telling you this(SHI) if you may not even be permitted to tell us?? Why tell you in the first place if not to share it?
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
Speaking of SHI, I'm not sure where this will bring Athas's feel as we know it but I do beleive it wont tear it appart. (maybe It'll bring more knowledge and power to the rhul-Thaun but not at the expanse of destroying the tyr region as we know it.
If anything, and done correctly, it will bring the Tyr region together. ;)
At least in my campaigns it will.
Why would you say that, nyt?! Now my head will hurt for days as I try to figure out how sinister invading smurfs could possibly be scary.
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
Could you please tell me(us) other then the fact that you probably wrote her an e-mail, why is she telling you this(SHI) if you may not even be permitted to tell us?? Why tell you in the first place if not to share it?
Because I want to post it to my website, along with the outline to RaFoaSK and some other tidbits.
We are both still unsure of the legal rammifications and I would rather have asked and stayed in her good graces then just do it and tick her off.
...maybe I shouldn't have typed that out loud...
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Ah, just go ahead an do it. When they try to track you down, just say you're Xlor. That's what I did, at least.
...maybe I shouldn't have typed that out loud...
That poor Darkhelm guy, he's always taking the blame for everything.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Ah, just go ahead an do it. When they try to track you down, just say you're Xlor. That's what I did, at least.
...maybe I shouldn't have typed that out loud...
That's ok. If they dig back far wnough, they'd see my past is rife with copyright infringements....
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Because I want to post it to my website, along with the outline to RaFoaSK and some other tidbits.
We are both still unsure of the legal rammifications and I would rather have asked and stayed in her good graces then just do it and tick her off.
good point !! :D
Because I want to post it to my website, along with the outline to RaFoaSK and some other tidbits.
We are both still unsure of the legal rammifications and I would rather have asked and stayed in her good graces then just do it and tick her off.
did this ever get to happen?
the piece about the space halflings that is....
sorry for so ungraciously bumping an old thread, i might have missed it
So, you have all that, and then...the "official" stuff comes in kills off Sorceror Kings and has a background story I LOATHE with a passion...gah!
Oh, yes! I HATE this -- utterly.
I might have been able to stomach the unfolding history a little better, even liked it, perhaps, had the literature been...well, better. AIR, I didn't mind the first couple books...but the last couple started feeling very forced and implausible, and the ending was over-the-top, bizzare, stupid, mindless, idiotic...whatever Denning was going for, what he ended up with was "anti-climatic".
At least the PP novels were not nearly as bad as the Tribe of One series! (Oh, man, don't even get me started!)
Regarding the idea of major world-scale plot-events and their inclusion by way of fiction or "world updates": keep in mind that DarkSun was being developed during the heyday of the company metaplot -- the "we're telling you a story, here, sit back and enjoy it" gaming, which you might recognize as having been prevalent within the various White Wolf lines (until quite recently, in fact).
Those of you around on the mailing list during that time might even recall my rants about the subject then, too! Thankfully the hobby is moving away from that horrid, insipid trend, and it appears that the big designers have finally figured out that if you want to write a novel, write a novel, don't write a game, and don't mix the two.
You'll note this is exactly what WotC did with FR, because they realized that unlike fiction, the players in each group have to be the heroes of the story, have to be the ones to do all the heroic stuff in the world, not the writer's NPCs.
but i agree with you. I will never 'just' play the Freedom adventure again, did that once and let the players stand with empty hands at the sideline while all the fun happened with the NPCs....
thats a definite no-no in my campaigns now, or should i say, my soon to start NEW one.
Its up to the DM to create and develop them however. Be it material hinted at in a supplement or novel, or a completely original concept.
A DM isn't or shouldn't be bound to what is considered canon if an idea they have is contrary to what the books detail.
Because I want to post it to my website, along with the outline to RaFoaSK and some other tidbits.
We are both still unsure of the legal rammifications and I would rather have asked and stayed in her good graces then just do it and tick her off.
I have grappled with Nyt over this before. He will not budge. He owns the halfling invasion as far as athas.org is concerned.
Anyway, this is a matter of taste, you don't like it then change it. I would give my Players the chance to fight and kill Kalak, with the help of the PP Heroes.
I have grappled with Nyt over this before. He will not budge. He owns the halfling invasion as far as athas.org is concerned.
we'll wait on our good ole Nyt then to give comment on that one :D
I have grappled with Nyt over this before. He will not budge. He owns the halfling invasion as far as athas.org is concerned.
/me smites Justin Timberlake
A) I've already stated the reasons why I can't do this yet.
B) Most of the pertient info has already been posted to the mailing list.
C) If you want this to happen sooner, then feel free to send me a $50 check every month so I can pay for a broadband connection at home. I'll be more than happy to send the neccessary info needed to send said check.
However, let me see if I can post a short version, just so I can be left alone in peace since I'm going to be very busy this week (gotta love the first week of the year while working at an ISP, bleah).
Basically Lynn Abbey had mentioned on the mailing list back in the day that Athas was going to be underattack by a "space halfling invasion" which would consist of the returning rhulisti.
Further chats with Bill Slavicsek at GenCon has proven that this was in fact "in the plans" and not only that but it was mostly his idea.
The messenger was also part of this and is supposed to be a life shaped space ship with comatose rhulisti onboard that will wake up once it lands, crashes, or whatever.
That's about all I have time for right now, but that should satisfy your appetities.
I hope. :P
P.S. I'll try to find the other posts while I'm on lunch too.
P.S.S. Regardless, what is stated here WILL NOT be part of the official lifeshaped conversion for DS 3.5, it's way too extreme.
thats some cool ideas!
But to inspire creativity: we now have a lot of setting material from the Age of Heroes: city maps and descriptions , etc. It can be an interesting project to make Age of the SKs versions of the major cities. Based on how they are looking in the AoH, it could be possible to retro-change them into their AoSK selves. Than it could be continued with other major points of interests, but I think they didn't changed as much as the cities. E.g. Silver Spring operates the same way now than ten years before.
Anybody up to the challange?
It can be an interesting project to make Age of the SKs versions of the major cities.
that is not worth the effort in my opinion, as any dm that has a bit of creativity can make something out of the already existing versions.
what i would be interested in more, and what im gonna put some time into myself is detailing a lot of the places that didnt get more than just a paragraph in the Revised campaign settings from Dark Sun.
places like Bodach are on the top of my list.....
that is not worth the effort in my opinion, as any dm that has a bit of creativity can make something out of the already existing versions.
A lot of people playing in that age, we can see in this very thread. And it's a big help for any DM, who has a normal life to care for as well to have something ready. If she doesn't like something, she can change it ever. But it's a much less effort and time than to make a conversion back from the AoH cities (most of them without the SK now) to an AoSKs version.