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Draconian Paragons?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
fiendish_dire_weasel
Mar 03, 2004 4:13:45 Unearthed Arcana introduced racial "paragons", basicly a 3 level class that enhances your racial abilities.

I'm curious if anyone has done up any for Draconians, specificly Baaz. My GM and I will probably be working out one soon, just curious to see other peoples opinions and ideas on the matter.
#2
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 6:57:15 The only "paragon" template I have seen, is from the "D&D 3.x monster manual II".
It is a template the discribes the perfect speciment of a species, but I don't think that would work well with draconians.

For touch speciment I would simply use ability boosts, and increased racial hit dice.
#3
iltharanos
Mar 03, 2004 9:53:12
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
Unearthed Arcana introduced racial "paragons", basicly a 3 level class that enhances your racial abilities.

I'm curious if anyone has done up any for Draconians, specificly Baaz. My GM and I will probably be working out one soon, just curious to see other peoples opinions and ideas on the matter.

Since draconians are of the dragon type, a simple solution may be to allow "paragon" draconians (of whatever variety) to take 3 more hit dice of the dragon type, along perhaps with an increase in natural armor, caster level (for bozaks and auraks), darkvision +30 feet, and a +2 stat increase relevant to each draconian variety (e.g. +2 Cha for bozaks).
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 14:57:33 Actually the Racial Paragon template was in the Epic Level Handbook....and as far as applying that to a draonian? Hmmm....well....It might be cool to apply it to Fistborn Draconians....like were mentioned in Draconian Measures.....that would emphasize the power and maginificence of those first dracos...and it would make a viable DL enemy for an epic party
#5
fiendish_dire_weasel
Mar 04, 2004 1:14:21 No, not those Paragons

In Unearthed Arcana there are 3-level "meta-classes" that emphasize the inherent traits of that race. I was just curious of anyone who has checked them out if they came up with ones for Dragonlance. I know Dragonhelm came up with two, one for Kender and one for Minotaurs on the DL site, was just looking to see if there was Baaz ones or even generic Draconian ones out there yet.
#6
kipper_snifferdoo_02
Mar 04, 2004 6:28:22 Do you mean like in this post?

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190592
#7
iltharanos
Mar 04, 2004 6:41:29
Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo
Do you mean like in this post?

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190592

Those aren't racial paragon class levels. That post attempts to follow the Savage Species style format that allows creatures with a relatively high ECL to be played as low as 1st level characters.

e.g. A centaur has 4 racial HD and a +2 level adjustment. Thus a centaur has a starting ECL of +6 and would be suitable as a PC in a party composed of 6th level characters.

Following the Savage Species model, one can make a Centaur class (total of its racial HD plus level adjustment) that has 6 class levels. Thus, if one has a party of 1st level characters, a PC can still play a Centaur, but he would only have 1 level of the 6 listed levels of the Centaur class.

In contrast, racial paragon levels involve a small 3-level progression that enhances the abilities of a standard PC race. This leads me to believe racial paragon class levels for draconians are unnecessary, as they are already quite buff just from their racial HD alone.
#8
ferratus
Mar 04, 2004 12:56:29 I was thinking of something similar to paragon classes myself, though the explanation I had was of draconians gaining back their dragon heritage through magical ritual and meditation.

The three things I would add to a racial paragon prestige class for draconians are wings capable of flight, dragonfear, and elemental immunity.
#9
Dragonhelm
Mar 04, 2004 13:08:43
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
Unearthed Arcana introduced racial "paragons", basicly a 3 level class that enhances your racial abilities.

Actually, Arcana Unearthed did. Unearthed Arcana is the first to use the phrase "paragon" in relation to the 3-level racial classes.

I have a few DL versions on the Nexus and some in a recent issue of the Tobril e-zine. I haven't done draconians yet, though.
#10
fiendish_dire_weasel
Mar 05, 2004 2:26:08
Actually, Arcana Unearthed did. Unearthed Arcana is the first to use the phrase "paragon" in relation to the 3-level racial classes.

Yeah, this being a D&D board I try to avoid too much talk of 3rd party stuff. Maybe it's just hold-over from the Opt Board.

Besides, I try to forget I bought AU :D
#11
Charles_Phipps
Mar 05, 2004 2:31:03 But pardon me if I'm wrong but isn't dragonlance published by a third party now?

:-)
#12
tiornys
Mar 05, 2004 2:31:19 I've personally chosen to reserve the use of the UA-style racial paragon classes to creatures who have purely class hit dice rather than racial hit dice. Therefore, in my campaign, there are no draconian paragons, just as there are no centaur paragons and no ogre paragons.

For those who feel differently, I think it would be relatively easy to design appropriate classes. However, I definitely think each subrace should have its own paragon class; there's too much diversity to try to fit one class to all five subraces.

Speaking of paragon classes, does anyone else think that many of the "standard" paragon classes need massive retooling to fit the flavor of Krynn (gnomes a prime example)?

t~
#13
fiendish_dire_weasel
Mar 05, 2004 3:03:05
But pardon me if I'm wrong but isn't dragonlance published by a third party now?

It's still a WotC IP I believe, which is why Soverign they need to pass everything through WotC still. Could be wrong though. Either way, there is the DL specific board here so :P
:D

I've personally chosen to reserve the use of the UA-style racial paragon classes to creatures who have purely class hit dice rather than racial hit dice. Therefore, in my campaign, there are no draconian paragons, just as there are no centaur paragons and no ogre paragons.

Very interesting, I never considered that before. Personally, I think the UA paragon classes bring a lot of bad things to the table myself, mechanicly speaking. From a flavor point of view I'm only a fan of them for half-races, especially magical ones like Half-Dragons, Gensai, Tieflings and even maybe Half-Elves & Half-Orcs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 fiendish_dire_weasel Mar 03, 2004 4:13:45	Unearthed Arcana introduced racial "paragons", basicly a 3 level class that enhances your racial abilities. I'm curious if anyone has done up any for Draconians, specificly Baaz. My GM and I will probably be working out one soon, just curious to see other peoples opinions and ideas on the matter.
#2 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 6:57:15	The only "paragon" template I have seen, is from the "D&D 3.x monster manual II". It is a template the discribes the perfect speciment of a species, but I don't think that would work well with draconians. For touch speciment I would simply use ability boosts, and increased racial hit dice.
#3 iltharanos Mar 03, 2004 9:53:12	Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel Unearthed Arcana introduced racial "paragons", basicly a 3 level class that enhances your racial abilities. I'm curious if anyone has done up any for Draconians, specificly Baaz. My GM and I will probably be working out one soon, just curious to see other peoples opinions and ideas on the matter. Since draconians are of the dragon type, a simple solution may be to allow "paragon" draconians (of whatever variety) to take 3 more hit dice of the dragon type, along perhaps with an increase in natural armor, caster level (for bozaks and auraks), darkvision +30 feet, and a +2 stat increase relevant to each draconian variety (e.g. +2 Cha for bozaks).
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 14:57:33	Actually the Racial Paragon template was in the Epic Level Handbook....and as far as applying that to a draonian? Hmmm....well....It might be cool to apply it to Fistborn Draconians....like were mentioned in Draconian Measures.....that would emphasize the power and maginificence of those first dracos...and it would make a viable DL enemy for an epic party
#5 fiendish_dire_weasel Mar 04, 2004 1:14:21	No, not those Paragons In Unearthed Arcana there are 3-level "meta-classes" that emphasize the inherent traits of that race. I was just curious of anyone who has checked them out if they came up with ones for Dragonlance. I know Dragonhelm came up with two, one for Kender and one for Minotaurs on the DL site, was just looking to see if there was Baaz ones or even generic Draconian ones out there yet.
#6 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Mar 04, 2004 6:28:22	Do you mean like in this post? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190592
#7 iltharanos Mar 04, 2004 6:41:29	Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo Do you mean like in this post? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190592 Those aren't racial paragon class levels. That post attempts to follow the Savage Species style format that allows creatures with a relatively high ECL to be played as low as 1st level characters. e.g. A centaur has 4 racial HD and a +2 level adjustment. Thus a centaur has a starting ECL of +6 and would be suitable as a PC in a party composed of 6th level characters. Following the Savage Species model, one can make a Centaur class (total of its racial HD plus level adjustment) that has 6 class levels. Thus, if one has a party of 1st level characters, a PC can still play a Centaur, but he would only have 1 level of the 6 listed levels of the Centaur class. In contrast, racial paragon levels involve a small 3-level progression that enhances the abilities of a standard PC race. This leads me to believe racial paragon class levels for draconians are unnecessary, as they are already quite buff just from their racial HD alone.
#8 ferratus Mar 04, 2004 12:56:29	I was thinking of something similar to paragon classes myself, though the explanation I had was of draconians gaining back their dragon heritage through magical ritual and meditation. The three things I would add to a racial paragon prestige class for draconians are wings capable of flight, dragonfear, and elemental immunity.
#9 Dragonhelm Mar 04, 2004 13:08:43	Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel Unearthed Arcana introduced racial "paragons", basicly a 3 level class that enhances your racial abilities. Actually, Arcana Unearthed did. Unearthed Arcana is the first to use the phrase "paragon" in relation to the 3-level racial classes. I have a few DL versions on the Nexus and some in a recent issue of the Tobril e-zine. I haven't done draconians yet, though.
#10 fiendish_dire_weasel Mar 05, 2004 2:26:08	Actually, Arcana Unearthed did. Unearthed Arcana is the first to use the phrase "paragon" in relation to the 3-level racial classes. Yeah, this being a D&D board I try to avoid too much talk of 3rd party stuff. Maybe it's just hold-over from the Opt Board. Besides, I try to forget I bought AU :D
#11 Charles_Phipps Mar 05, 2004 2:31:03	But pardon me if I'm wrong but isn't dragonlance published by a third party now? :-)
#12 tiornys Mar 05, 2004 2:31:19	I've personally chosen to reserve the use of the UA-style racial paragon classes to creatures who have purely class hit dice rather than racial hit dice. Therefore, in my campaign, there are no draconian paragons, just as there are no centaur paragons and no ogre paragons. For those who feel differently, I think it would be relatively easy to design appropriate classes. However, I definitely think each subrace should have its own paragon class; there's too much diversity to try to fit one class to all five subraces. Speaking of paragon classes, does anyone else think that many of the "standard" paragon classes need massive retooling to fit the flavor of Krynn (gnomes a prime example)? t~
#13 fiendish_dire_weasel Mar 05, 2004 3:03:05	But pardon me if I'm wrong but isn't dragonlance published by a third party now? It's still a WotC IP I believe, which is why Soverign they need to pass everything through WotC still. Could be wrong though. Either way, there is the DL specific board here so :P :D I've personally chosen to reserve the use of the UA-style racial paragon classes to creatures who have purely class hit dice rather than racial hit dice. Therefore, in my campaign, there are no draconian paragons, just as there are no centaur paragons and no ogre paragons. Very interesting, I never considered that before. Personally, I think the UA paragon classes bring a lot of bad things to the table myself, mechanicly speaking. From a flavor point of view I'm only a fan of them for half-races, especially magical ones like Half-Dragons, Gensai, Tieflings and even maybe Half-Elves & Half-Orcs.