Interesting statement about Kalak... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Interesting statement about Kalak...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Shei-Nad
Mar 03, 2004 10:21:33 Hey. I'm working on my traders right now, so I've of course re-read the Dune Trader supplement, and something caught my eye.

You know about the whole Kalak ''controversy''? Well, here's something else:

House Vordon (the major trading house of Tyr) was first established in Kalidnay, but had some warning of the catastrophe that fell upon that city and fled to Tyr right before it. They then went to Tyr, where they slowly brebuilt their empire, and got a great boon when iron was discovered in the mountains. They get really better, to the point of the author making this statement:

''By the time Sorcerer-king Kalak ascended to the throne, House Vodron was the richest and most influencial merchant dynasty in the region''

So, according to that book, Kalak became sorcerer-king after the other champions. And the rest of the text is pretty clear on it too, talking about the first years of his reign then, etc.

So? What of it? Discard it? Weave it into the non-champion theory?

Let the controversy begin anew! :D
#2
dawnstealer
Mar 03, 2004 10:40:51 Absolutely discard. Dune traders is a great flavor piece and has some good ideas, but the folks who wrote it must have been smoking copious amounts of pot. Read the Gulg description. Yep, that's right: the current Oba took over when the old Oba died! Uh-huh. Nah, the history in Dune Trader is absolutely bunk.
#3
Shei-Nad
Mar 03, 2004 11:27:53 hmm... being going through it but can't find that part. You sure its there?
#4
dawnstealer
Mar 03, 2004 12:07:32 Yup. I'll have to wait until I get home to look it up, but, sadly, it's in there.
#5
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 13:24:10 why exactly is it such drivel to say that lalali-puy wasn't the first oba?
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 14:06:20
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Absolutely discard. Dune traders is a great flavor piece and has some good ideas, but the folks who wrote it must have been smoking copious amounts of pot. Read the Gulg description. Yep, that's right: the current Oba took over when the old Oba died! Uh-huh. Nah, the history in Dune Trader is absolutely bunk.

Dawnstealer is Right, it does say that. Who was the first Oba?
Hillary?
#7
dawnstealer
Mar 03, 2004 14:10:02 I go with "Chunk" from the goonies. As good as any, I suppose.
#8
nytcrawlr
Mar 03, 2004 14:29:38
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
I go with "Chunk" from the goonies. As good as any, I suppose.

Baby.....roooth!
#9
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 14:35:17 On page 45 of Dune Trader under the Clearwater tribe it states, "The Clearwaters did not visit Gulg for many years, until the old oba had been replaced by the current ruler."

Now it says the Clearwaters only arrived in the Tyr region 800 years ago, so it is not possible for there to be any other ruler of Gulg but Lalai-puy.

I have disregarded the history info in Dune Trader that contradicts the mainstream history of Athas, but the sourcebook does have great flavor and very cool individual history for the merchant houses and tribes.
#10
dawnstealer
Mar 03, 2004 14:42:50 Absolutely: I have used a great number of ideas presented in Dune Traders in my campaigns, I just don't trust the history put forth by it. Great resource, if you don't have it, just digest it with a big grain of salt.
#11
Grummore
Mar 03, 2004 15:11:49 This doesnt need to contradict. Just bend the reality as you wish:

Why wouldnt such a powerful king (SK oba), wouldnt have change of appearance or any of the others SK over all these year of ruling and just made thing the peoples that someone else as been elected or been a replacement, etc...
#12
zombiegleemax
Mar 03, 2004 15:52:36 Actually, I wouldn't mind a little thought project on the idea, if it weren't for the fact that Lalali is treated as a god amongst her peoples. Kinda hard to foster that kind of belief when the people think you can die, or pass on, or whatever the claim is of the where-abouts of the previous Oba.

Although, if I were to brainstorm it, I'd say that perhaps Lalali, previously, always ruled by proxy, until 800 years ago. Perhaps she took many forms, but was always an advisor to the ruler of Gulg. The people chose their leader in some weirdo hunting/voting method (such a system should be instated here in the U.S.), then Lalali dominates them and uses them as a puppet to rule the city. Perhaps one of the Oba got out of hand, somehow gaining the power to throw off the mental enslavement. Lalali steps into the limelight as a god-like being and casts down the Oba (using propaganda later to say that she did it for the good of the people), and assumes the position of Oba herself for once.
#13
dawnstealer
Mar 03, 2004 15:56:31 Or perhaps Lala sat out for most of the time (ala Nibenay) and allowed the Oba to run things, the Oba overstepped her boundries and Lala cast her down, claiming to be both the forest goddess and Oba.
#14
Sysane
Mar 04, 2004 7:53:49 Could it be posible that there was just an Oba before Lala and that it just faded from public memory. It was over 800 years ago and most DS races aren't long lived like they are in other worlds. So as far as most people are concerned Lala was the only Oba to ever rule in Gulg.

Sysane- The Terror of Urik
#15
zombiegleemax
Mar 04, 2004 13:31:54 Well, in the Ivory Triangle, it says Lalai-puy was worshipped as a goddess, and the people voluntarily sacrificed 1000 of their number to the dragon in order for her to remain as Oba of the city.

I prefer to think that after the Cleansing Wars, each Sorcerer-King staked their claim to a city and always was the ruler since. Now they could rule like Nibenay and never be around, or have an active role, but they were always there, always a part of the city. They are so powerful they do not need to concoct any such plans as taking different guises and replacing this personas periodically.

Alemander
#16
zombiegleemax
Mar 04, 2004 15:31:01
They are so powerful they do not need to concoct any such plans as taking different guises and replacing this personas periodically.

Actually, Abalach-Re did just that, even though she was no less powerful in general than any other SK. She claimed to rule in the name of the god Badna, deriving her power from this being. Why wouldn't another SK take a slightly off kilter approach to rulership? Is the simple assumption that things have always been as unchanging as a snapshot in time? Maybe some of the SKs toyed with the concept of social manipulation or effecient rulership before settling for simple lordship over the city. It surely wouldn't be something so absurd sounding.

As for the idea of of other Oba's before Lalali took over completely, perhaps, whatever method you chose, she was in control the entire time slowly shaping the people's mindset so that when she did come to reign supreme, the people would believe her to be a goddess and voluntarily sacrifice themselves for the lev, rather than raid other villages and such for the levy as the other SKs did.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Shei-Nad Mar 03, 2004 10:21:33	Hey. I'm working on my traders right now, so I've of course re-read the Dune Trader supplement, and something caught my eye. You know about the whole Kalak ''controversy''? Well, here's something else: House Vordon (the major trading house of Tyr) was first established in Kalidnay, but had some warning of the catastrophe that fell upon that city and fled to Tyr right before it. They then went to Tyr, where they slowly brebuilt their empire, and got a great boon when iron was discovered in the mountains. They get really better, to the point of the author making this statement: ''By the time Sorcerer-king Kalak ascended to the throne, House Vodron was the richest and most influencial merchant dynasty in the region'' So, according to that book, Kalak became sorcerer-king after the other champions. And the rest of the text is pretty clear on it too, talking about the first years of his reign then, etc. So? What of it? Discard it? Weave it into the non-champion theory? Let the controversy begin anew! :D
#2 dawnstealer Mar 03, 2004 10:40:51	Absolutely discard. Dune traders is a great flavor piece and has some good ideas, but the folks who wrote it must have been smoking copious amounts of pot. Read the Gulg description. Yep, that's right: the current Oba took over when the old Oba died! Uh-huh. Nah, the history in Dune Trader is absolutely bunk.
#3 Shei-Nad Mar 03, 2004 11:27:53	hmm... being going through it but can't find that part. You sure its there?
#4 dawnstealer Mar 03, 2004 12:07:32	Yup. I'll have to wait until I get home to look it up, but, sadly, it's in there.
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 13:24:10	why exactly is it such drivel to say that lalali-puy wasn't the first oba?
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 14:06:20	Originally posted by Dawnstealer Absolutely discard. Dune traders is a great flavor piece and has some good ideas, but the folks who wrote it must have been smoking copious amounts of pot. Read the Gulg description. Yep, that's right: the current Oba took over when the old Oba died! Uh-huh. Nah, the history in Dune Trader is absolutely bunk. Dawnstealer is Right, it does say that. Who was the first Oba? Hillary?
#7 dawnstealer Mar 03, 2004 14:10:02	I go with "Chunk" from the goonies. As good as any, I suppose.
#8 nytcrawlr Mar 03, 2004 14:29:38	Originally posted by Dawnstealer I go with "Chunk" from the goonies. As good as any, I suppose. Baby.....roooth!
#9 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 14:35:17	On page 45 of Dune Trader under the Clearwater tribe it states, "The Clearwaters did not visit Gulg for many years, until the old oba had been replaced by the current ruler." Now it says the Clearwaters only arrived in the Tyr region 800 years ago, so it is not possible for there to be any other ruler of Gulg but Lalai-puy. I have disregarded the history info in Dune Trader that contradicts the mainstream history of Athas, but the sourcebook does have great flavor and very cool individual history for the merchant houses and tribes.
#10 dawnstealer Mar 03, 2004 14:42:50	Absolutely: I have used a great number of ideas presented in Dune Traders in my campaigns, I just don't trust the history put forth by it. Great resource, if you don't have it, just digest it with a big grain of salt.
#11 Grummore Mar 03, 2004 15:11:49	This doesnt need to contradict. Just bend the reality as you wish: Why wouldnt such a powerful king (SK oba), wouldnt have change of appearance or any of the others SK over all these year of ruling and just made thing the peoples that someone else as been elected or been a replacement, etc...
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 03, 2004 15:52:36	Actually, I wouldn't mind a little thought project on the idea, if it weren't for the fact that Lalali is treated as a god amongst her peoples. Kinda hard to foster that kind of belief when the people think you can die, or pass on, or whatever the claim is of the where-abouts of the previous Oba. Although, if I were to brainstorm it, I'd say that perhaps Lalali, previously, always ruled by proxy, until 800 years ago. Perhaps she took many forms, but was always an advisor to the ruler of Gulg. The people chose their leader in some weirdo hunting/voting method (such a system should be instated here in the U.S.), then Lalali dominates them and uses them as a puppet to rule the city. Perhaps one of the Oba got out of hand, somehow gaining the power to throw off the mental enslavement. Lalali steps into the limelight as a god-like being and casts down the Oba (using propaganda later to say that she did it for the good of the people), and assumes the position of Oba herself for once.
#13 dawnstealer Mar 03, 2004 15:56:31	Or perhaps Lala sat out for most of the time (ala Nibenay) and allowed the Oba to run things, the Oba overstepped her boundries and Lala cast her down, claiming to be both the forest goddess and Oba.
#14 Sysane Mar 04, 2004 7:53:49	Could it be posible that there was just an Oba before Lala and that it just faded from public memory. It was over 800 years ago and most DS races aren't long lived like they are in other worlds. So as far as most people are concerned Lala was the only Oba to ever rule in Gulg. Sysane- The Terror of Urik
#15 zombiegleemax Mar 04, 2004 13:31:54	Well, in the Ivory Triangle, it says Lalai-puy was worshipped as a goddess, and the people voluntarily sacrificed 1000 of their number to the dragon in order for her to remain as Oba of the city. I prefer to think that after the Cleansing Wars, each Sorcerer-King staked their claim to a city and always was the ruler since. Now they could rule like Nibenay and never be around, or have an active role, but they were always there, always a part of the city. They are so powerful they do not need to concoct any such plans as taking different guises and replacing this personas periodically. Alemander
#16 zombiegleemax Mar 04, 2004 15:31:01	They are so powerful they do not need to concoct any such plans as taking different guises and replacing this personas periodically. Actually, Abalach-Re did just that, even though she was no less powerful in general than any other SK. She claimed to rule in the name of the god Badna, deriving her power from this being. Why wouldn't another SK take a slightly off kilter approach to rulership? Is the simple assumption that things have always been as unchanging as a snapshot in time? Maybe some of the SKs toyed with the concept of social manipulation or effecient rulership before settling for simple lordship over the city. It surely wouldn't be something so absurd sounding. As for the idea of of other Oba's before Lalali took over completely, perhaps, whatever method you chose, she was in control the entire time slowly shaping the people's mindset so that when she did come to reign supreme, the people would believe her to be a goddess and voluntarily sacrifice themselves for the lev, rather than raid other villages and such for the levy as the other SKs did.