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Dark elves in Dl?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Mar 06, 2004 15:41:59 I know in the books it references dark elves lots of times. But are they the same as drow? I heard that dalamar is a dark elf but every picture I have seen of him he has light skin like normal elves. Whats the deal?
#2
iltharanos
Mar 06, 2004 15:46:41 The term "dark elf" on Krynn refers to a normal (Qualinesti, Silvanesti, etc.) elf that has been cast out of elven society for evil deeds, or something similar. Dark elves, such as the ebony-skinned, white-haired, underdark dwelling Drizzt Do'Urden, do not officially exist in Dragonlance.
#3
zombiegleemax
Mar 06, 2004 20:48:14 As iltharanos explain, drows do NOT exists on krynn.
There are severel examples of outcast "dark elves". Some of cast out because of evil deeds, like Dalamar (Being a black robe at heart) and some are thrown out because of politics (like Porthios). In any event they are not permitted to enter the elven lands again, and will be shot on sight.
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 06, 2004 21:44:38 The term "Drow Elf" does however exist in DragonLance. It was used specifically to describe what Raistlin went up against during his Test, I believe in the TWINS trilogy. That is what the Drow Elf was refered to as.

My take: That while Raistlin was taking his Test, that a trio of Drow Elfs in the FOrgotten Realms were preparing to take their own test that if you fail, you become a drider. During the test, somehow the power of magic (or perhaps Fistandantilus) caused them to end up against each other.

It was said often that Fistandantillus often journeyed to other planes during his travels. Perhaps Fistandantilus planned this as part of his return should he fail in his quest to open the Gate to the Abyss.

In any case, probably all of them, The Drow and Raistlin were totally suprised by what they were up against. While the approphy states that Raistlin was up against 3 Drow Elfs, and killed two of them with his magic on his own, but the third critically wounded him, and that is when Fistandantilus entered into the fray.

I imagine if any of the Drow did survive, they probably failed whatever test they were doing and ended up becoming Driders.
#5
iltharanos
Mar 06, 2004 22:31:55 The term "drow" has also been commonly indicated to refer to "dark elves", which as previously stated indicates not dark-skinned underdark elves, but outcast "normal" elves.
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 06, 2004 23:11:16
Originally posted by iltharanos
The term "drow" has also been commonly indicated to refer to "dark elves", which as previously stated indicates not dark-skinned underdark elves, but outcast "normal" elves.

I guess that is one definition. I personally like my definition, as it opens up to a lot more things.

It was that definition, the idea that there was some sort of rift between Forgotten Realms and DragonLance gave me the idea when I was playing the MARVEL SUPER HERO RPG of the late 1980s, that I got the idea to adapt the 1st Edition Players handbook spell list to the Marvel SuperHero rpg system, so I could create my own order of high sorcery on the planet earth.
#7
iltharanos
Mar 06, 2004 23:43:55
Originally posted by DmJoeSolarte
I guess that is one definition. I personally like my definition, as it opens up to a lot more things.

It was that definition, the idea that there was some sort of rift between Forgotten Realms and DragonLance gave me the idea when I was playing the MARVEL SUPER HERO RPG of the late 1980s, that I got the idea to adapt the 1st Edition Players handbook spell list to the Marvel SuperHero rpg system, so I could create my own order of high sorcery on the planet earth.

The latest incarnation of Dragonlance (like other settings), assumes Dragonlance is a closed setting. This means no Spelljammer, no Ravenloft, and especially no Forgotten Realms. This is why discussions of whether Takhisis of Dragonlance is the same as Tiamat of the Realms is moot, since each setting presupposes the nonexistance of the other setting/similar deity.
Similarly, the Dragonlance Campaign Setting flat out states the non-existence of Drow on Krynn, hence leading to the conclusion that any reference to Drow on Krynn refers to the Krynnish definiton of Dark Elves, the aforementioned outcast "normal" elves.

All of this is the official stance. In your (as in all the other DMs out there) version of Dragonlance, it's perfectly fine to say Drow (as in Drizzt) exist, or that orcs roam the wilds, it just won't match the official setting description.
#8
zombiegleemax
Mar 07, 2004 3:48:40 Yes...that one is stated officially and quite plainly....no drow elves on krynn......Although I do like the term usage for cast out elves....it's like the n-word in real life....it actually lends a little realism
#9
zombiegleemax
Mar 07, 2004 6:44:48
Originally posted by DmJoeSolarte
The term "Drow Elf" does however exist in DragonLance. It was used specifically to describe what Raistlin went up against during his Test, I believe in the TWINS trilogy. That is what the Drow Elf was refered to as.

My take: That while Raistlin was taking his Test, that a trio of Drow Elfs in the FOrgotten Realms were preparing to take their own test that if you fail, you become a drider. During the test, somehow the power of magic (or perhaps Fistandantilus) caused them to end up against each other.

As far as I remember it weren't a drow Raistlin fought. It was a "svart-elf", a undead spirit of a evil dark elf. (not a banshee). The companions also encountered one of them in Pax Tharkas.
#10
zombiegleemax
Mar 07, 2004 9:56:38 In the novel Soulforge, it shows the three drow elves which raistlin fought. They were regular old exiled elves.
#11
zombiegleemax
Mar 07, 2004 11:36:38
Originally posted by Nox11
In the novel Soulforge, it shows the three drow elves which raistlin fought. They were regular old exiled elves.

Are you sure they weren't undead, or witchlin's ?
I could have sworn it was something like that...
#12
zombiegleemax
Mar 07, 2004 12:45:37 Spoiler warning for Soulforge.............................

.................................

they were three powerful elven magic users who were masquerading as normal rogues to convince Raistlin to steal a powerful spellbook form his friend Lemuel. It all turned out to be a trick by Fisti to lure Raistlin to a cellar. When Raist found out there was no spellbook, he knew that the Dark Elves would not belienve him and would kill him. He then enlisted Fisti help with well known results.
#13
zombiegleemax
Mar 07, 2004 19:04:56
Originally posted by iltharanos
The latest incarnation of Dragonlance (like other settings), assumes Dragonlance is a closed setting. This means no Spelljammer, no Ravenloft, and especially no Forgotten Realms. This is why discussions of whether Takhisis of Dragonlance is the same as Tiamat of the Realms is moot, since each setting presupposes the nonexistance of the other setting/similar deity.
Similarly, the Dragonlance Campaign Setting flat out states the non-existence of Drow on Krynn, hence leading to the conclusion that any reference to Drow on Krynn refers to the Krynnish definiton of Dark Elves, the aforementioned outcast "normal" elves.

All of this is the official stance. In your (as in all the other DMs out there) version of Dragonlance, it's perfectly fine to say Drow (as in Drizzt) exist, or that orcs roam the wilds, it just won't match the official setting description.

I understand where you are coming from. Of course, if we go by 'official' stuff, they did allow Lord Soth to have that cross over novel with Ravenloft. Granted, I think that was more a matter of people at TSR back then, seeing the opportunity to put a popular DragonLance villain in the RavenLoft setting, jumped at the chance to do that.

And yes, when it all comes down to it, as DM, we are always authorized to do what we think is right for our campaigns, even if it crosses what is supposed to be 'official'. Just as long as we make it clear what is going down should be fine.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 06, 2004 15:41:59	I know in the books it references dark elves lots of times. But are they the same as drow? I heard that dalamar is a dark elf but every picture I have seen of him he has light skin like normal elves. Whats the deal?
#2 iltharanos Mar 06, 2004 15:46:41	The term "dark elf" on Krynn refers to a normal (Qualinesti, Silvanesti, etc.) elf that has been cast out of elven society for evil deeds, or something similar. Dark elves, such as the ebony-skinned, white-haired, underdark dwelling Drizzt Do'Urden, do not officially exist in Dragonlance.
#3 zombiegleemax Mar 06, 2004 20:48:14	As iltharanos explain, drows do NOT exists on krynn. There are severel examples of outcast "dark elves". Some of cast out because of evil deeds, like Dalamar (Being a black robe at heart) and some are thrown out because of politics (like Porthios). In any event they are not permitted to enter the elven lands again, and will be shot on sight.
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 06, 2004 21:44:38	The term "Drow Elf" does however exist in DragonLance. It was used specifically to describe what Raistlin went up against during his Test, I believe in the TWINS trilogy. That is what the Drow Elf was refered to as. My take: That while Raistlin was taking his Test, that a trio of Drow Elfs in the FOrgotten Realms were preparing to take their own test that if you fail, you become a drider. During the test, somehow the power of magic (or perhaps Fistandantilus) caused them to end up against each other. It was said often that Fistandantillus often journeyed to other planes during his travels. Perhaps Fistandantilus planned this as part of his return should he fail in his quest to open the Gate to the Abyss. In any case, probably all of them, The Drow and Raistlin were totally suprised by what they were up against. While the approphy states that Raistlin was up against 3 Drow Elfs, and killed two of them with his magic on his own, but the third critically wounded him, and that is when Fistandantilus entered into the fray. I imagine if any of the Drow did survive, they probably failed whatever test they were doing and ended up becoming Driders.
#5 iltharanos Mar 06, 2004 22:31:55	The term "drow" has also been commonly indicated to refer to "dark elves", which as previously stated indicates not dark-skinned underdark elves, but outcast "normal" elves.
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 06, 2004 23:11:16	Originally posted by iltharanos The term "drow" has also been commonly indicated to refer to "dark elves", which as previously stated indicates not dark-skinned underdark elves, but outcast "normal" elves. I guess that is one definition. I personally like my definition, as it opens up to a lot more things. It was that definition, the idea that there was some sort of rift between Forgotten Realms and DragonLance gave me the idea when I was playing the MARVEL SUPER HERO RPG of the late 1980s, that I got the idea to adapt the 1st Edition Players handbook spell list to the Marvel SuperHero rpg system, so I could create my own order of high sorcery on the planet earth.
#7 iltharanos Mar 06, 2004 23:43:55	Originally posted by DmJoeSolarte I guess that is one definition. I personally like my definition, as it opens up to a lot more things. It was that definition, the idea that there was some sort of rift between Forgotten Realms and DragonLance gave me the idea when I was playing the MARVEL SUPER HERO RPG of the late 1980s, that I got the idea to adapt the 1st Edition Players handbook spell list to the Marvel SuperHero rpg system, so I could create my own order of high sorcery on the planet earth. The latest incarnation of Dragonlance (like other settings), assumes Dragonlance is a closed setting. This means no Spelljammer, no Ravenloft, and especially no Forgotten Realms. This is why discussions of whether Takhisis of Dragonlance is the same as Tiamat of the Realms is moot, since each setting presupposes the nonexistance of the other setting/similar deity. Similarly, the Dragonlance Campaign Setting flat out states the non-existence of Drow on Krynn, hence leading to the conclusion that any reference to Drow on Krynn refers to the Krynnish definiton of Dark Elves, the aforementioned outcast "normal" elves. All of this is the official stance. In your (as in all the other DMs out there) version of Dragonlance, it's perfectly fine to say Drow (as in Drizzt) exist, or that orcs roam the wilds, it just won't match the official setting description.
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 07, 2004 3:48:40	Yes...that one is stated officially and quite plainly....no drow elves on krynn......Although I do like the term usage for cast out elves....it's like the n-word in real life....it actually lends a little realism
#9 zombiegleemax Mar 07, 2004 6:44:48	Originally posted by DmJoeSolarte The term "Drow Elf" does however exist in DragonLance. It was used specifically to describe what Raistlin went up against during his Test, I believe in the TWINS trilogy. That is what the Drow Elf was refered to as. My take: That while Raistlin was taking his Test, that a trio of Drow Elfs in the FOrgotten Realms were preparing to take their own test that if you fail, you become a drider. During the test, somehow the power of magic (or perhaps Fistandantilus) caused them to end up against each other. As far as I remember it weren't a drow Raistlin fought. It was a "svart-elf", a undead spirit of a evil dark elf. (not a banshee). The companions also encountered one of them in Pax Tharkas.
#10 zombiegleemax Mar 07, 2004 9:56:38	In the novel Soulforge, it shows the three drow elves which raistlin fought. They were regular old exiled elves.
#11 zombiegleemax Mar 07, 2004 11:36:38	Originally posted by Nox11 In the novel Soulforge, it shows the three drow elves which raistlin fought. They were regular old exiled elves. Are you sure they weren't undead, or witchlin's ? I could have sworn it was something like that...
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 07, 2004 12:45:37	Spoiler warning for Soulforge............................. ................................. they were three powerful elven magic users who were masquerading as normal rogues to convince Raistlin to steal a powerful spellbook form his friend Lemuel. It all turned out to be a trick by Fisti to lure Raistlin to a cellar. When Raist found out there was no spellbook, he knew that the Dark Elves would not belienve him and would kill him. He then enlisted Fisti help with well known results.
#13 zombiegleemax Mar 07, 2004 19:04:56	Originally posted by iltharanos The latest incarnation of Dragonlance (like other settings), assumes Dragonlance is a closed setting. This means no Spelljammer, no Ravenloft, and especially no Forgotten Realms. This is why discussions of whether Takhisis of Dragonlance is the same as Tiamat of the Realms is moot, since each setting presupposes the nonexistance of the other setting/similar deity. Similarly, the Dragonlance Campaign Setting flat out states the non-existence of Drow on Krynn, hence leading to the conclusion that any reference to Drow on Krynn refers to the Krynnish definiton of Dark Elves, the aforementioned outcast "normal" elves. All of this is the official stance. In your (as in all the other DMs out there) version of Dragonlance, it's perfectly fine to say Drow (as in Drizzt) exist, or that orcs roam the wilds, it just won't match the official setting description. I understand where you are coming from. Of course, if we go by 'official' stuff, they did allow Lord Soth to have that cross over novel with Ravenloft. Granted, I think that was more a matter of people at TSR back then, seeing the opportunity to put a popular DragonLance villain in the RavenLoft setting, jumped at the chance to do that. And yes, when it all comes down to it, as DM, we are always authorized to do what we think is right for our campaigns, even if it crosses what is supposed to be 'official'. Just as long as we make it clear what is going down should be fine.