If some one could explain this to me on how it is supose to work I would appericate it greatly. Thank you
well you ADD the level adjustment, to find out their Effective Character LEvel..goes like this...
Say you wish to play a Hobgoblin, it has Level Adjustment +1, so a 1st level Hobgoblin is: level 1, plus Level Adjustment +1 = effectively a lvl 2 character. Thus for gaining xp, what level it's suitable to bring such characters into your game etc, it counts as being equal to a 2nd level character.
So, imagine you have a D&D campaign, everyone is lvl 2 currenlty, it would be fine to bring a lvl 1 hobgoblin into it, because his abilities balance him up to about the equal power of a level 2 character. He has only 1 level though, and to reach 2nd lvl he needs xp to got to lvl 3 for a normal race.
That kind of make sense?
Well, it goes like this (I think, it all gives me a migraine)
Effective Character Level (ELC) = Racial Hit Dice + Level Adjustment (LA)
What's that supposed to mean? Okay, first, the entire equations assumes that a race that starts off with X number of hit dice is equal to a normal character of X level. Let's take the thri-kreen. It starts off with 2 HD. These 2 HD are treated a little like having 2 levels in the race in quesiton already, since it gives the kreen +2 base attack bonus, +3 will and fort saves, a starting feat, and some skill points. Not really equal is you ask me since a normal character has some class abilities while so far we haven't even gotten into those (its not perfect, but rules are rules), but lets go on. Now, we look at the kreen's abilities. Overpowered stat bonuses, high movement race, natual weaponry, multiple attacks (and lots of 'em, too), poison, leaping . . . the list goes on. So, we need to determine then, is the 2 HD kreen the same as a lvl 2 human? Heck no! He's way tougher. If he were equal, we wouldn't do anything, but all those extra abilities add up and he comes up with a Level Adjustment of +1 (IMO it should be +2, but I'm not in charge . . . yet). Adding it all up we have 2 HD and a LA +1 for a net Effective Character Level of 3. That means that when a kreen starts adventuring, before he has even chosen a class at all, he's the same as a 3rd level character with 3,000 xp. Now, if he wants to have a class, say fighter, he has to earn the next 3,000 xp and when he 'levels up', he can add 1 level of fighter. Still with me? Hope so. So, if someone wants to play a thri-kreen fighter, even a level 1 fighter, the kreen has to start with 6,000 xp. Its rather as if the kreen were a multi-class fighter 1/kreen 3. The system assumes (mostly correctly) that a 1st lvl kreen fighter is equal to a 4th lvl human fighter.
Oh yeah, as for half-giants, they also hae 2 HD and a level adjustment of +1. That means that they start without any class at 3,000 xp (3rd character level) or a 1st lvl fighter (or whatever) at 6,000 xp (4th character level).
Aarakocra and Muls start off without hit dice, but they do have an LA of +1. That means that they begin with 1,000 xp and are considered a 2nd level character, before adding any actual class levels. Since they have no racial hit dice, they need to actually take a level in a class first though (or they get no base attack bonus, save bonuses, class skills, ect, etc). Add a class level at 3,000 xp and blam-o, 3rd level mul or aarakocra, but only 1 level actually taken in a class.
Well, hope that helps. Took me a little while to wrap my brain around it all too. Hopefully I haven't made it worse
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Aarakocra and Muls start off without hit dice, but they do have an LA of +1. That means that they begin with 1,000 xp and are considered a 2nd level character, before adding any actual class levels. Since they have no racial hit dice, they need to actually take a level in a class first though (or they get no base attack bonus, save bonuses, class skills, ect, etc). Add a class level at 3,000 xp and blam-o, 3rd level mul or aarakocra, but only 1 level actually taken in a class.
Not sure this bit is right. All creatures have Hit Dice, (classless aarakocra and muls get 1d8 because they're humanoids) but if a 1HD creature takes a class, that class HD replaces the racial HD. So a mul/aarakocra who is a 1st level wizard is HD 1d4, but one who is a 1st level fighter is HD 1d10. LA+1 still applies, so a 1st level mul or aarakocra is a 2nd level character with 1000xp.
Each creature has a type (humanoid, monstrous humanoid, dragon, ooze, outsider etc) and it helps to think of these as classes. The glossary at the back of the MM3.5 has little entries for these "classes" much like the info in the PHB. Like Mach says, treat these like character classes when figuring out a creature's ECL. Just remember that 1 HD creature's racial hit die is replaced by its first class hit die, if it take a class
Originally posted by Kamelion
Each creature has a type (humanoid, monstrous humanoid, dragon, ooze, outsider etc) and it helps to think of these as classes. The glossary at the back of the MM3.5 has little entries for these "classes" much like the info in the PHB. Like Mach says, treat these like character classes when figuring out a creature's ECL. Just remember that 1 HD creature's racial hit die is replaced by its first class hit die, if it take a class
Could you make an example with a Half-Giant or a Thri-kreen?
What would the HD be if a one of these races would take a Level as Rouge at the beginning...what would be the saves, the skill-points, BA....?
Ex: Half-giant rogue (chuckling inside picturing a twelve foot tall masked bandit in black swinging from a rooftop rope into a noble's open window . . . quietly).
Starting: 2d8 hit dice, Base Attack Bonus +1, Fort save +3, (no Ref or Wil save bonuses), and a starting feat (and something like 2 + int mod x 5 skills points. Starting 'class' skills are I think jump, listen, spot, and climb (no such thing as cross-class skills for a race's skill list). Now, add rogue level to all that for +2 Ref save (no extra base att bonus, no fort or will save bonus), sneak attack +1d6, and trapfinding. Skill points are figured now not as a starting rogue, but as a 3rd lvl character that just multi-classed into rogue would get: 8+int modifier. Not sure if its an actual rule, but I count ECL towards bonus feats and bonus stats (so in my game, the above half-giant gets his next feat when he picks up his first actual 'class' level and is allowed his first stat boost at his second 'class' level, since he's effectively a 4th lvl character then).
The starting abilities and bonuses are right there in the racial description in the doc.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
...(so in my game, the above half-giant gets his next feat when he picks up his first actual 'class' level and is allowed his first stat boost at his second 'class' level, since he's effectively a 4th lvl character then).
That means the half-giant would have 3HD (2d8+1d6), right?
I was a little confused about the replace-1HD-thing ....
Originally posted by Kamelion
Not sure this bit is right. All creatures have Hit Dice, (classless aarakocra and muls get 1d8 because they're humanoids) but if a 1HD creature takes a class, that class HD replaces the racial HD. So a mul/aarakocra who is a 1st level wizard is HD 1d4, but one who is a 1st level fighter is HD 1d10. LA+1 still applies, so a 1st level mul or aarakocra is a 2nd level character with 1000xp.
IIRC, without being able to look up in books currently, actually, each creature that has the "advancement by character class" line in their listing basically is broken down with a level of an NPC class (usually warrior, e.g. Goblin Warrior, etc.), and then their racial features applied. The difference is thaty they use their type's HD (d6, d8, d10, etc.) in place of the NPC class HD, and they use the "standard array" of abilkity scores (with racial mods applied to them). Technically, those races don't have racial HD's, they have a NPC class level. so, when you make a character like that, they drop the NPC class level, as that becomes the character's class level instead. I could be mistaken, as I don't have my books with me.
Could you make an example with a Half-Giant or a Thri-kreen?
What would the HD be if a one of these races would take a Level as Rouge at the beginning...what would be the saves, the skill-points, BA....?
Mach's example is pretty much correct. The hg would have 3HD (2 giant and 1 rogue) but would be a 4th level character (hg LA+1).
Not sure if its an actual rule, but I count ECL towards bonus feats and bonus stats (so in my game, the above half-giant gets his next feat when he picks up his first actual 'class' level and is allowed his first stat boost at his second 'class' level, since he's effectively a 4th lvl character then).
The official rule is that ecl doesn't affect when you get your feats, only your needed xp (and wealth level, iirc). Feats and skills are linked to hit dice only. So the example hg rogue 1 would have 2 feats as he has 3HD (one for his 1st hg hit die and one for his rogue hit die) but is ECL 4. When he takes another class level he gets an ability boost, but he is ECL 5 by then.
Technically, those races don't have racial HD's, they have a NPC class level. so, when you make a character like that, they drop the NPC class level, as that becomes the character's class level instead. I could be mistaken, as I don't have my books with me.
They do have racial hit dice - all creatues have racial hit dice, determined by their type. It's d8 for humanoids.
The rule that seems to be causing the confusion only applies to humanoids (I don't think I was clear on this - sorry) and relates to the replacement of this racial HD for 1HD creatures:
Although a 1HD humanoid has a racial HD, this is always replaced by a class HD. The humanoid must take a class. This only applies to humanoids with 1 HD. Instead of using the stats for a 1HD humanoid, it now uses the stats for a 1st level character of whatever class it took. So a 1HD goblin could be a warrior (d8) a fighter (d10) a wizard (d4) etc etc.
This doesn't apply to humanoids with more than 1 hit dice or creatures other than humanoids.
The full rule is covered in MM3.5, p310
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