I definitely plan on using X4 and X5 well before X10 during Wrath of the Immortals. I have a few ways to foreshadow the events of X4 and X5.
The players will be in Specularum, and privy to some of the maneuverings at the court. Right before X4, the Darokin ambassador will be negotiating military assistance from Karameikos for the threat on its borders (and in fact, my mechanism for getting the players involved is that they'll be part of the Karameikan reserve force that goes west to help Darokin).
Even before that, I want to have prophets of The Master in many of the eastern cities, proclaiming the coming of The Master and giving non-believers the chance to 'join the winning team'. It'll improve the world's synergy to have them encounter street preachers of the Master, then a few adventures later learn about Darokin being threatened, negotiations for military aid, and finally be part of the Karameikan expeditionary force...
Anyone have ideas regarding building a philosophical platform for 'The Master' that would be appealing? The thing I like about Mystara is that good-evil isn't necessarily clearly defined, and despite Hule being a rigid Theocracy, an awful lot of people are behind The Master - he's been able to motivate a huge empire to war. His ideas must be compelling.
thanks for any suggestions~
A Baldander would make a lot of sense with his illusionary abilities, he could be quite influential to those who see him when he is in his illusionary forms. He could use his illusions to amke it appear that he can perform miracles. If you need any information on Baldanders just post and I'll post an entire description from the Challenger series Creature Crucible. Their illusions are stronger than any other as they can affect sounds, smells, tastes, and touch as well as vision. They also have a range of up to 240' or so if I remember correctly. Maybe some of his discpiles could be Baldanders also and "perform miracles" to influence the common people that the Master is divine in some way.
Originally posted by crash_beedo
So - one of the big advantages of having like 20 years of published material BEFORE you start your campaign is being able to plan all the campaign arcs well ahead of time...
I definitely plan on using X4 and X5 well before X10 during Wrath of the Immortals. I have a few ways to foreshadow the events of X4 and X5.
The players will be in Specularum, and privy to some of the maneuverings at the court. Right before X4, the Darokin ambassador will be negotiating military assistance from Karameikos for the threat on its borders (and in fact, my mechanism for getting the players involved is that they'll be part of the Karameikan reserve force that goes west to help Darokin).
Even before that, I want to have prophets of The Master in many of the eastern cities, proclaiming the coming of The Master and giving non-believers the chance to 'join the winning team'. It'll improve the world's synergy to have them encounter street preachers of the Master, then a few adventures later learn about Darokin being threatened, negotiations for military aid, and finally be part of the Karameikan expeditionary force...
Anyone have ideas regarding building a philosophical platform for 'The Master' that would be appealing? The thing I like about Mystara is that good-evil isn't necessarily clearly defined, and despite Hule being a rigid Theocracy, an awful lot of people are behind The Master - he's been able to motivate a huge empire to war. His ideas must be compelling.
thanks for any suggestions~
Judging from the material presented in X5, I'd say the religion of the master holds appeal in welcoming many different kinds of people and races ... humanoids are supposedly common in Hule, and form a large part of the Master's armies. So the religion itself must have appeal that goes beyond a single culture, it must be very proselytizing as well. Another feature you get from it is that it might have messianic features too, with the great reverence paid to the Master. Lastly I would say many of its edicts are quite rigid, after all, the Diviners aren't there for nothing. Finally it seems to be a religion which demands the submission of secular authority and the formation of a religious state.
In alot of ways it seems to contain features of bits and pieces of the different "major religions" of the real world, as opposed to the other clerical orders of Mystara which more strongly resemble the pantheons of the Greeks or Norse, and aren't messianic or proselytizing to quite the same degree.
The Master is such an influential figure and is capable of building such huge forces - he'd need to have a philosophy that was inclusive of humanoids and monsters.
Hey you other guys - they do stat out the master, in X5 and then again in X10 - he starts as like 14th lvl Cleric with uber-gear, and then jumps up quite a bit higher for X10 (maybe 18th lvl?)
I don't know enough about these adventures or the Master to really comment more on this thread though, but I'll be reading with interest. I wasn't planning on using them as I didn't own copies at the time I started my Wrath of the Immortals campaign, but I've got hold of the pdf of X10 now and plan to incorperate elements into my PCs experiences of the war.
It's good stuff and I'm kicking myself that I never bought these modules when they were in print.
Wrath does supersced X10 module in the fact that the master is not killed during the darokin invasion as can happen in the module (by the pc's of course).
Has anyone heard of his 2IC Athrelius? in any other supplement or material. It feels like he makes a one time appearance in X10 (Although I haven't seen X4&5).
personally I think the hulean religion/s are somewhat seperate from the sindhi religions although I'm not versed enough to comment further.
Likewise, the Master is old but is using an 'avatar' of a perfect body.
I think X10 assumes the Master was killed in X5 and has been resurrected (and made somewhat indestructible) by his patron Loki. If he is Lvl 30, I think that's about where master level characters do begin their quests for immortality.
For what I was looking for, Edge's ideas will work fine - I want to have street preachers from the desert in some of the eastern cities, talking about the Master and his legions, and the upcoming judgement. They can denounce secular governments, and cultures that oppress humanoids, and rail against the impurity of the eastern lands...
It'll build verisimilitude for when I introduce the events of X4.
Of course this could be elaborated on and fine tuned but I think it would make sense and would be very effective.
All this brainstorming and cool ideas are making me want to run through those modules!
Originally posted by Hugin
As a small tidbit to consider, the philosophy of Hule and of the Immortal Bozdogan (Loki) is interlaced with deceit. So maybe the way the Master gains so varied a following is through lies and trickery; tell them what they want to hear, create hope where there is none (even if it is false), and stir up fanatisism.
Of course this could be elaborated on and fine tuned but I think it would make sense and would be very effective.
All this brainstorming and cool ideas are making me want to run through those modules!
Well, there aren't any gods in Mystara, so anyone preaching a religion of salvation that includes a messiah is being a bit deceptive in Mystara. I get a sense this is the flavour of the Master's religion. That for me is the essential difference between the Master's faith and that of other clerics ... the Master's movement is really constructed as a "religion", even if it is false, while the followings of other Immortals are just that - followings. In this sense it's interesting to me Crash's idea that the Master's invasions would be preceded by preachers and proselytizers. It makes perfect sense and is fully in keeping with everything else we know about him, it seems so natural and right.
It's also interesting to note that this would likely work quite well, as the nature of the Master's religion is likely more appealing to many than the followings of the usual immortals. It might be foreign but the Master has obviously crafted the religion such that this is no barrier.
The really good question in all of this, is, where does the Master and his clerics get their spells from? Is the Master perhaps a Mortal Form of some Immortal?
As for the messiah issue, I disagree a little. I mean, it's generally not a prominate thing but look at the Traladarans. Although the Church of Traladara doesn't really come out and say that their "messiah" will return, they do say that a "golden age" will return. And well the Cult of Halav boldly claims that Halav will indeed return (although again there is trickery going on here).
I do see what you're saying though and agree that whatever the Master is doing, he's doing it right!
Another thought just came to me (make that two); speaking of the preachers and proselytizers that precede the invasion, it sounds that the Master is trying to utilize fear in his targets. The other is, seeing as how lies are holy in Hule, alot of what they are saying could be false to give misinformation to his opponents.
Originally posted by Hugin
AFAIK, they get their spells from Loki. Yep, found it. In PWA for 1011, it states that "they honor many Immortals, though Bozdogan (Loki, Prince of Deceit) is foremost among them. In Hule, lies are holy things...".
As for the messiah issue, I disagree a little. I mean, it's generally not a prominate thing but look at the Traladarans. Although the Church of Traladara doesn't really come out and say that their "messiah" will return, they do say that a "golden age" will return. And well the Cult of Halav boldly claims that Halav will indeed return (although again there is trickery going on here).
I do see what you're saying though and agree that whatever the Master is doing, he's doing it right!
Another thought just came to me (make that two); speaking of the preachers and proselytizers that precede the invasion, it sounds that the Master is trying to utilize fear in his targets. The other is, seeing as how lies are holy in Hule, alot of what they are saying could be false to give misinformation to his opponents.
Well ... there is a slight trace of the messianic in the Church of Traladara and the Cult of Halav, but, it is more of a King Arthur type of feeling to me ... whereas I envision that the Master promises something completely different, I get more of a feeling that he claims to be a representation of a god on earth kind of thing, and promises a different kind of salvation altogether.
Misinformation and 'psychological warfare' would certainly be a big part of the Master's efforts at proselytization, but it would be very sophisticated and convincing ... you'd have to write it out in such a way that the players even would have to shake their heads a moment to come to their senses ... I imagine one of the primary features of the campaign would be to challenge the legitimacy of the easterners Immortals followings, to question the motives of these Immortals and to say they treat their followers as pawns and they are not worthy of worship.
Way back when I first ran X10, I had trouble coming up with Hosadus' true motive for the war itself.
Think about it. What was he after? If we follow the plan of conquest outlined in the module the Master winds up overextending his reach. His forces are spread far too thin for him to hold the territory that he is able to capture.
I decided that one of the tasks Hosadus was required to accomplish in order to become an Immortal was that he had to trick a few thousand people into willingly sacrificing themselves for his own glory and honor. This meant that the war was no longer about just taking land. This was a war waged solely to generate death in the name of Hosadus.
Regards and Best Wishes,
Donald Eric Kesler
I'm glad you like it. In my old game, it added a whole new dimension to the tragedy of the war.
I even had the Master explain the situation to the players prior to the final battle. Basically, he told the player characters that they did not need to fight. The war that they had worked so hard to stop was for all intents and purposes all over. Enough people had died in his name. He was done. He had satisfied the requirement placed upon him by his immortal sponsor. There was no need for the players to risk their lives in a fight. They could go home as heros, safe in the knowledge that their beloved countries would be safe and secure.
It was a great role playing moment. Naturally, the players decided that the realm of the immortals would be a far better place without another enthropic immortal, but it was not something they decided all at once.
Regards and Best Wishes,
Donald Eric Kesler
I decided that one of the tasks Hosadus was required to accomplish in order to become an Immortal was that he had to trick a few thousand people into willingly sacrificing themselves for his own glory and honor. This meant that the war was no longer about just taking land. This was a war waged solely to generate death in the name of Hosadus.
The Orcs of Thar Gazetteer presents the "Path of the Conqureror" as a way to become Immortal in the Sphere of Entropy. It fits quite well with what you describe.
If you want to keep the Master around for a longer time in the campaign as a super villain and avoid the players getting sick of him getting away every single time, a good idea might be to present a powerful henchman of the Master's, sort of a Darth Vader type to attract their attention. That way you may actually allow the PCs to make a difference by killing this super-henchman, yet leaving the Master in the background to train a new henchman for the PCs to kill at a later time...
Ideas for what such a henchman might be like?
Havard
The idea about Baldanders comes to mind again. Maybe some Gnoll with a character class. Or even an elf that has fallen under the Masters teachings and now worships him in hopes of him being his patron to Immortality once the Master becomes one.
Another idea I had about the Desert Master's Second in command, is a human. Darth Vader-esque presence is required ofcourse. I was thinking something along the lines of a dark version of Laurence of Arabia. Throw in a little of Lord Kael from "Willow" and we are close.
My Hule is leaning towards Mordor in flavour, being mostly populated by Orcs and Ogres and turning the occupied lands into Orc havens aswell. I never liked CoM's portrayal of the Serpent Peninsula, so I am going to make that more dark and Orcish aswell, perhaps picking up the old modules that covered the region (Quagmire?) and using some of that information to detail it further. IMC, Hules dominance of the Serpent Peninsula and the area surrounding it is the reason for the lack of communication between the Known World and the Savage Coast. Take that away and a new era of contact bewteen the two regions will begin.
Havard
The Master's second in command is Alrethus, a 19th level Magic-User.
In his description in X10, it describes how he has made use of Majic Jar over the years. The opportunity did not present itself, but I had always thought that it would be neat to have him return to haunt the players in the body of a loyal NPC. The party would have to sort out some way to defeat Alrethus without actually killing their friend.
In any event, he might do for a nasty second in command that the players could defeat.
Regards and Best Wishes,
Donald Eric Kesler
The Master's second in command is Alrethus, 19th level Magic-User.
Ah, thanks for that information! I havent read through the module in years. The guy I was suggesting could be as you suggest Alrethus's Lietenant, or alternately, Althrethus' replacement should the PCs manage to kill the wizard.
In any case, both of these characters help keeping Hosadus in the background, which means he won't have to be the bad guy who gets away from the players every single time. OTOH, should the master eventually be killed and one of these powerful henchmen survive, one of these may replace the Master. Remeber, Sauron was once Morgoth's second in command and he did pretty well as Evil Overlords go...wouldnt you say? ;)
Havard
_Lord Kaylor, the Master's Executor_
Human Fighter10, Cleric 5
Description:
Lord Kaylor is a tall menacing figure with a closely trimmed black beard. His skin has a deep tan and his eyes are pitch black. He is usually dressed in dark desert garb and a black leather armor, wielding a nasty-looking scimitar.
Background:
Kaylor was the leader of a Thyatian expeditionary force whose mission was to learn more of the Desert Master. Unfortunately they were lost in the Sindh Desert and while his men wanted to try and find a way back, Kaylor insisted that they would press on, continuing their mission. However, his fellow soldiers betrayed him and abandoned their leader in the desert. There he had to learn how to survive the hard way. He gradually became accepted by a group of desert orcs and eventually became their leader. He still bears a grudge against the soldiers who betrayed him and believes that such weakness is part of all civilized weaklings. Eventually, Kaylor was discovered by Alrethus among the ranks of the orcs serving the master. The Master's second in command brought the young warrior before Hosadus who made him one of his top men.
Personality:
Lord Kaylor is harsh and cruel. However, he has some twisted sense of honor within him. He despises all forms of treason and prefers honest battles to ambushes. He sees it as his personal goal to lead the Masters forces across the Known World, punnishing the civilized peoples for their weakness.
Using Kaylor:
Kaylor may be used as a major character in a campaign featuring the Master's Forces, and may be presented as the main villain before the heroes learn of Hosadus and Alrethus working in the background. Alternately, Kaylor may replace Alrethus or even Hosadus should the PCs kill either of the above.
GMing hints:
Lord Kaylor should be played like a dark version of Laurence of Arabia. He has the looming presence of Lord Kael from Willow and may be compared to what Aragorn would have been like, had he chosen to serve Sauron instead of the people of the West.
Havard
Right now I am planning for the characters to be level 10-11 3E D&D and then start the war with them taking some of the diplomatic missions in X10 (I don't like all of them - too simple) and then gathering an army to halt the advance of the Master's forces.
After fighting him to a stalemate, the characters will have to sneak across the deserts into Hule and slay the Master himself. This will be an upgraded (slightly altered) version of X4 and X5.
I would like to comment on a few of the many great posts in this thread:
1) If you find it problematic that the Master conquers more territory than he has troops to hold - give him allies (Ethengar, Ylaruam, Atruaghin, Black Eagle comes to mind) or simply more divisions.
2) I really enjoyed the idea of pre-war preachers in the Known World. If some of these deceptive missionaries could convert key military personnel in Darokin that would explain the Master's early "Blitz" from the border to Darokin City. ("What do you mean, soldier, the gate is open??")
3) As I see it, the philosophy of the preachers, being based on lies and deceit, would run somewhat along these lines:
"The Immortals you worship do not care about you. They do not save you from famine or disease or war".
"The Master is an Immortal who walkes this earth among his devout followers".
"He brings prosperity to his loyal followers and destruction to his enemies. He is strong and nothing can stand against his armies".
"Cast away your old beliefs and take part in the glory and prosperity that is found in the Master's following".
4) The preachers would also act as spies, estimating Darokin's military strengths and weaknesses and trying to corrupt dissatisfied officers ("The Master promises you the title and honour that you have been cheated of so far").
:-) Jesper