thoughts?
IMHO, alot could be drawn from real-world mythology regarding "elves". Now "elf" is Norse, I'm thinking here more strongly of legends from the British Isles, and they would have been referred to as the "Fey" or the "fair folk." They're not, in Tolkien fashion, particularly friendly with humans (and sometimes even malicious). It's not a good idea to travel in the forests where the Fey lurk, and they are seen as a bit random in their behaviours - always mischievous, but as often bringing good fortune as dire results. Something to be avoided, at any rate.
This is the kind of atmosphere I would present Aengmor with.
But Alfheimers might find supporters in Erewan, Karameikos, the Vyalia in Thyatis and the Minrothad Elves.
That is not published material, but I thought it sounded good.
In my own campaigns, the elves scattered everywhere and the majority traveled to Wendar.
I wrote that!
It should be on dnd.starflung.com somewhere. I'm glad you liked it. As a matter of fact we are discussing similar ideas on the MML right now.
IMC Doria was established by the homeless elves under the leadership of King Doriath and set in the Athruagin lands, although other locations are also possible.
As for Aengmor, I dont see the Shadow Elves having much success in the Surface World. They have simply adapted too much to living under ground.
IMC, they only lasted on the surface for a few years before being driven out by a large Orc Horde lead by Thar himself. Never liked how Thar was reduced to such a wimp under the Anne Dupois regime.
Havard
Originally posted by tjedge1
I think Aengmor's presence could be more imposing like the Shadow Elf presence in the Hollow World. After time they can stay in the sunlight a little longer every generation or so. They would most likely not be a threat to anyone till 1500 or later.
The Shadow Elves are different from the Schattenalfen in the Hollow World. The Schattenalfen can't go about in the sunlight without being fully covered and wearing special goggles and so on, whereas the Shadow Elves are able to walk about in the sunlight with no penalties of any kind after a couple days adjustment, as per the Shadowelf Gazeteer.
Originally posted by tjedge1
I don't have that Gazatteer so I missed thqat there was a difference. I still don't see how they couldn't eventually adapt to the sunlight since they used to be normal elves before they went underground, right?
Yes, but they don't need generations to adapt, all they need to do is wait a couple of days. In fact, Shadow Elf agents are scattered all across the Known World (even in Alfheim) posing as regular elves and walking about in the daylight with no ill effects.
As far as the Schattenalfen, they might adapt if for some reason they were forced to live in sunlight. But they wouldn't do this willingly - they don't have the same interests as the Shadow Elves - and it would take a heck of a long time ... the Schattenalfen are so sensitive they must cover their skin to venture out. Shadow Elves on the other hand, simply find the sun painfully bright until their eyes adapt, as anyone having been underground a long time will. It's debatable whether or not a Schattenalfen would become immune to the sun's effects in a lifetime or not, but I'd be disposed to say no, that it would take several generations.
There are numerous differences between the Schattenalfen and the Shadow Elves, though they do share a common ancestry.
Originally posted by Edgewaters
I'm fairly sure the Shadowelf Gazeteer is available as a text download in WOTC's free oop downloads section somewhere, it is definately worth a read. You'd get alot of wrong impressions about them if you based them off the Schattenalfen. The Schattenalfen strike me as out-and-out evil, while the Shadow Elves aren't, really, for the most part.
it is, a html version is available from the Vaults from http://dnd.starflung.com/shadow.html the players and DMs section fo the guide. The Schattenalfen section fromthe Hollow World boxed set is also available from WotC and also in glorious html on the Vaults directly at http://dnd.starflung.com/schatt.html
... looking on the WotC site this, and other D&D/ Mystaran stuff is also available from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/downloads
Looking back on our own history - it is obvious that many vicious rulers were tolerated by other (liberal? western? advanced?) countries, as long as those countires' interests were not threatened. I believe the same (cynical?) attitude will be shown towards the Shadow Elves by most Known World countries. Nobody would give a damn about the Alfheimers - except for elven minorities.
And the Shadow Elves would go to great lengthes in order to be seen as "non-threatening". I mean, they just want their old home back, right?
"The elves who had led the Blackmoor expedition were caught unawares by the Great Rain of Fire. They fled into the Broken Lands, finding caves there that promised to protect them from the scorching flames on the surface ... after centuries, the elves had started to rebuild civilization, and centuries after that, they dared to travel to the surface again ... on their first journey, a small party of elves found the land as inhospitable to them as it was when they left it: the sun burned a fiery red, and refused to set at night [note: this was the Hollow World]. The pale skin and eyes of the shadow elves were little match for the sun's brightness; many members of the group were blinded after only the first day, and all of them died shortly after ... a second expedition was sent out about a hundred years later. The shadow elves emerged in the Broken Lands ... needless to say, the expedition decided that the surface was still not habitable ... Eventually, shadow elves in some cave or other came upon a party of human adventurers ... the shadow elves learned from these humans that the devastation of the Great Rain of Fire had ended long ago, and even more astonishing, that an entire nation of elves had established themselves on the surface - Alfheim ... the shadow elves, unskilled in the arts of diplomacy (for such had never before been needed by their kind) hastily sent a group to Alfheim, on the surface, but peace was not readily to be had. The surface elves, who had somehow survived the ice age in their homeland and travelled here, were not interested in sharing their bounty with their lost cousins. A series of overtures and counter-overtures finally ended when Celedryl, then King of Alfheim, ordered that all shadow elves within his realm be immediatly killed.
The shadow elves hardened their hearts at this. This was against their code as elves: Never would they treat one of their own kind so shamefully."
This is of course history as the shadow elves know it; the reality is a bit different. But it really is perceptions that matter. This is what the shadow elves believe.
Alfheim, now under the control of the Orcs is renamed the Orkenwoods, a major headache for Darokinians, Alfheimers and Shadowelves alike. Perhaps enough of a problem for the three to unite for a restoration of Alfheim? Extremists on all three sides will be hard to persuade though...
Havard
Personally ... if I were to run a post-WotI campaign ... the Shadow Elves in Aengmor would make a pact with some Entropic Immortal to keep the Canolbarth 'alive'; there would be a split between them, and the Shadowelves of the City of Stars, the worshippers of Rafiel. That there is some movement afoot to search for a new sponsor is evident in the SE Gazeteer ... plus, on the surface, Rafiel's shamans would be absolutely powerless ... elements seeking to turn from the path of Rafiel would be emboldened
I like this idea. IMC I was going to have the forest conqured by Orcs driving the SE out. Now I am thinking about using that in combination with the scenario you suggest. The Orc Invasion could be initiated by the more nasty fraction of the SE to drive their rivals out. In any case this will leave the Canolbarth Region and "evil" country in the middle of the Known World. Excellent for stirring up action! ;)
Havard