I also like the idea of getting a little more of a sneak peek each week.:D
So I guess this means we're going back to the larger border in the BoK? (after having the smaller 1" ones in the DM Screen and KoD)
I'd comment on the idea of "Noble Draconians"...but the idea is still digesting. You'll have to give me some time with that. On one hand it seems like it could be construed as over-saturation (especially for those that thought Dragonspawn were as such). On the other hand...Dragonlance is about...well...dragons. And so it's a perfect fit.
Like I said...you'll have to give me some time on this one.
Originally posted by vivisect
Very cool. Would I be correct in assuming that there will be four more of these noble draconians?
I also like the idea of getting a little more of a sneak peek each week.:D
Correct indeed! I will shamelessly admit to being the creator of the Noble Draconians (originated roughly ten years ago!). After taking the Wayback machine two years to Weldon Chen's website, one can still see two of the draconians in 2nd Edition format. The five noble draconian types are frost, venom, vapor, lightning, and flame.
http://web.archive.org/web/20020327065838/www.mindspring.com/~granakrs/mcnoble.html
The following weeks will let the REAL authors of the Bestiary shine, with material from the other five chapters of the book (the first being Dragons).
I hope everyone likes what they see!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Well, as written they seem to fit, I mean it makes sense. Though considering their small numbers it would indeed be rare for anyone to ever encounter them.
Although... according to the DLCS for lack of a better term 'True Draconians' have shifted to a more neutral outlook, with some actually becoming throwbacks to their real parents blood and becoming good. One naturally wonders if similar would have happened in the opposite direction with these 'Noble Draconians' largely forgotten about and probably loathed by any that do know about them.
Still as I sit here not 10 minutes after reading that preview... ideas are brewing for a rather interesting adventure.
I like the idea of anti-draconians, though not very original, it is a cool idea, nonetheless.
I can't wait to see more of this book! Congrats Andre and Cam!
Originally posted by Brimstone
Shucks...
So I guess this means we're going back to the larger border in the BoK? (after having the smaller 1" ones in the DM Screen and KoD)]
We have heard those who don't like the large borders and there will be change! Unfortunately it will be August before you see the smaller borders in a color product. Most of our products are written to a specific word count, and were we to reduce the borders the overall length of the book would decrease the page count.
The War of the Lance book will be the first to feature trimmed-down borders and a 1,000 word per page average.
I'd comment on the idea of "Nobel Draconians"...but the idea is still digesting. You'll have to give me some time with that. On one hand it seems like it could be construed as over-saturation (especially for those that thought Dragonspawn were as such). On the other hand...Dragonlance is about...well...dragons. And so it's a perfect fit.
Like I said...you'll have to give me some time on this one.
Dragonspawn were published first, but the Noble Draconians were originally created just before Christmas 1993 for a home-spun Dragonlance short story I wrote called "Swing of the Pendulum." I was worried about including them. In fact, our original plans was not to put them in the Bestiary at all--but I went ahead with the encouragement of others. I hope gamers out there can find some good use for them. My father actually played a lightning draconian in my Second Generation Dragonlance campaign several years ago.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by Andre La Roche
Well, then might I suggest taking a gander on over here: http://www.dragonlance.com/d20/enhancements/bestiary.asp
Man, that really sucks that the Bestiary isn't coming out 'till May. Of course, I was half expecting this with Mr. Chambers' comments about web enhancements for all upcoming products and an announcement concerning the Bestiary ... oh well, at least my appetite has been somewhat whetted by the free pdf and the promise of more free pdfs.
Originally posted by vivisect
Very cool. Would I be correct in assuming that there will be four more of these noble draconians?
Maaaaaaaybe. ;)
I'd comment on the idea of "Nobel Draconians"...but the idea is still digesting. You'll have to give me some time with that. On one hand it seems like it could be construed as over-saturation (especially for those that thought Dragonspawn were as such). On the other hand...Dragonlance is about...well...dragons. And so it's a perfect fit.
I'm sure there will be those who will think that noble dracs were inspired by dragonspawn, but as Jamie said, the idea is 10 years old (meaning that it actually predates SAGA). This is the first time it will be seen in print.
Personally, I'm itching to play a lightning draconian with the honor-bound feat. For some reason, when I think of dracs lately, I think of Gargoyles. It would be neat to play the DL version of Goliath. ;)
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
For some reason, when I think of dracs lately, I think of Gargoyles. It would be neat to play the DL version of Goliath. ;)
I had that same feeling the first moment I read about a Draco. What with the gliding instead of flying and the turning to stone for some of them. Seeing as I was a big fan of Gargoyles in Junior High(when I started reading DL) that isn't that abnormal.
Dragonspawn were published first, but the Noble Draconians were originally created just before Christmas 1993 for a home-spun Dragonlance short story I wrote called "Swing of the Pendulum."
Alright, I'll be the first to ask... Can we ever get a gander at this short story (or module or whatever it was)? Although I'm sure your writing had improved over the last 11 years it might be cool to see the origin of these Noble Draconians. You could post it in the fan fiction section over on Dragonlance.com....
I was worried about including them. In fact, our original plans was not to put them in the Bestiary at all--but I went ahead with the encouragement of others.
I don’t think we were encouraging you so much as we were threatening you if you didn’t put them in. ;)
It certianly seems in character for such a species, perhpas they had an Influence?
Anyway, Just a random thought.
Originally posted by Teclis of House Magi
Was I the only one that, upon reading about this, imeedate thoguht about the Draconian Army that appeared at the end of the War of Souls?
It certianly seems in character for such a species, perhpas they had an Influence?
Anyway, Just a random thought.
Actually, this brings up a VERY good question. How will regular draconians view noble draconians?
I imagine there would be quite a bit of animosity, as their respective dragon parents are enemies, but with the building of Teyr, things may be different.
Also, how would a noble drac and a dragonspawn interact? And what if a noble drac were to be sacrificed in creating a dragonspawn?
Thoughts?
I'm fairly sure that army in WoS was from Teyr. They mentioned a Bozak that fit the description of Kang and a Sivak that fit the description on Silth if I'm not mistaken... but I'm getting off topic.
Considering just how similar Venom Draconians are to Kapak... the question of cross breeding may come up, I assume the same for other Draconian races... Lightning and Bozak, Flame and Aurak, Frost and Sivak, and well Vapor and Baaz... though they seem the odd men out... Though I'm just going on conjecture.
I would like to see Kang accept Noble Draconians into his city... but considering how they're keeping their heads low and most of Kyrnn, including a lot of Draconians still don't know about it, the Nobles probably don't know about it either.
However, I was a little leery of my own idea because it seemed like the draconians were gradually reclaiming their good heritage, while the dragonspawn seemed to be filling in as the draconic evil minions.
However, with good dragonians that are chromatic, then it almost necessitates good dragonspawn. That way you have one branch of good draconians and one branch of evil draconians, and one branch of good dragonspawn and one branch of evil dragonspawn. It all balances out.
Though, the inhabitants of Krynn must get awfully confused sometimes. Can you mistake a dragonspawn for a draconian, or are dragonspawn more human looking? For example, do dragonspawn retain a human face, like the gold champion miniature in the dragoneye set?
I see you've also reclaimed the more visually interesting Lockwood dragons. Good call. Hopefully we get more words per page soon, though I assume that the ToHS will have the absurdly large font and borders too. Save a tree guys. ;)
As for gargoyles, I began obsessing over that show at a far older age than I should have been. However, the mythology and shakespeare laden plots in the second season were too interesting to ignore. I especially love Demona, whose descent into evil is due to her own pride and her own inability to accept responsibility for her own actions. It's Goliath's fault. It's Macbeth's fault. It's the human's fault. The "City of Stone" miniseries is probably among the best animated movies ever.
curse the aging process! lol
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Heh....This is just me, and only one persons opinion, but I tend to like the large font. Only reason being is that at the ripe old age of 25 I have an easier time reading it...lol....seriously though.....I dont have to pull out my reading glasses to read the text of my DL d20 supplements.
curse the aging process! lol
Serena,
The actual size of the font won't change, but with smaller borders there will be more words on each page. So even though the War of the Lance book will be 224 pages (the size of Age of Mortals), it will actually be a book with more information.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Heh....This is just me, and only one persons opinion, but I tend to like the large font. Only reason being is that at the ripe old age of 25 I have an easier time reading it...lol....seriously though.....I dont have to pull out my reading glasses to read the text of my DL d20 supplements.
curse the aging process! lol
Serena your going blind at the age of 25 ?
***
I'm sure there will be those who will think that noble dracs were inspired by dragonspawn, but as Jamie said, the idea is 10 years old (meaning that it actually predates SAGA). This is the first time it will be seen in print.
Oh fer cryin' out --
Okay, guys, let's not turn this into a urinating contest (would have used the normal word...but it got censored).
I wasn't trying to say "We already have Dragonspawn...what do we need these for." What I was saying was that people who already didn't like the idea of Dragonspawn because of over-saturation of dragon men are not going to like nobel draconians because that adds 5 more to the pot.
I said nothing about which came first...nor does it even friggin' matter. Ten is ten...and fifteen is more than ten. Numbers...I was just talking about numbers. And I of course didn't even think ten was "over-saturation" anyway.
Whatever.
Originally posted by wolffenjugend
Is that the finished artwork?
I hope so. It looks great.
Zoom into 200% (it gets fuzzy after that). The detail is quite good.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Oh fer cryin' out --
Okay, guys, let's not turn this into a urinating contest (would have used the normal word...but it got censored).
I wasn't trying to say "We already have Dragonspawn...what do we need these for." What I was saying was that people who already didn't like the idea of Dragonspawn because of over-saturation of dragon men are not going to like nobel draconians because that adds 5 more to the pot.
I said nothing about which came first...nor does it even friggin' matter. Ten is ten...and fifteen is more than ten. Numbers...I was just talking about numbers. And I of course didn't even think ten was "over-saturation" anyway.
Whatever.
Tobin,
I had the same concern as you. When dragonspawn appeared in the Fifth Age, I pretty much decided to shelve the idea. However, I received encouragement from Chris Coyle and the others, and Jason Engle's wicked-cool artwork sealed the deal.
Forgive anyone who tried to jump to my defense. They all mean well!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Are there male and female Noble draconians or only male?
Originally posted by iltharanos
Hmm.
Are there male and female Noble draconians or only male?
Initially it seems that there are only male, but we've left things open. Let's wait and see!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by jechambers
Forgive anyone who tried to jump to my defense. They all mean well!
I know...I'm sorry. I just didn't want this to turn into another 4th Age vs. 5th Age argument, or about which came first, etc. etc.
I'm of the opinion the more the marrier of these dragon-men. (chromatic draconians and dragonspawn...metallic draconians and dragonspawn...although I can't imagine metallic dragons forcing humans to do that...but if they willingly wanted to make the transformation....) Though oddly, I am opposed to half-dragons...
Anyway...I kinda felt like words were being put in my "mouth" (or would it be fingers?) And I think I was already touchy 'cause of a stupid close minded e-mail I got from a friend this morning...then people already complaining about the art on both the DLAG and the "Venom Draconian," not to mention the chastizing of someone because they're going blind at an early age.
I just think this was the proverbial straw, so to speak.
Again...I apologize.
Originally posted by iltharanos
Hmm.
Are there male and female Noble draconians or only male?
There should be both, otherwise they weren't worth including given their extremely low population.
-Drachasor
Originally posted by jechambers
We have heard those who don't like the large borders and there will be change! Unfortunately it will be August before you see the smaller borders in a color product. Most of our products are written to a specific word count, and were we to reduce the borders the overall length of the book would decrease the page count.
Cool! I'm just glad you're not getting rid of the border altogether (like some people suggested). The border is just too Dragonlance, imo. But smaller I think is okay...I thought they looked fine in the DM Screen booklet.
Is it still going to have the "torn parchment resting on marble slab" look that it has now? Or is it going to go completely to the original design from past DL books (like it looked in the DM Screen booklet)?
Originally posted by Brimstone
Oh fer cryin' out --
Okay, guys, let's not turn this into a urinating contest (would have used the normal word...but it got censored).
I wasn't trying to say "We already have Dragonspawn...what do we need these for." What I was saying was that people who already didn't like the idea of Dragonspawn because of over-saturation of dragon men are not going to like nobel draconians because that adds 5 more to the pot.
I said nothing about which came first...nor does it even friggin' matter. Ten is ten...and fifteen is more than ten. Numbers...I was just talking about numbers. And I of course didn't even think ten was "over-saturation" anyway.
Whatever.
Sorry, Tobin. Didn't mean to open a can of worms with that comment. :embarrass
Originally posted by SweetMeats
I think its a great idea. For a while people have discussed what would happen if the ritual was used on good dragon eggs, and now we know. These will really come as a surprise to my players. In fact I may just use this preview in an upcoming DL scenario.
I agree.
I have also discussed this with people for ages, and nobody has ever really agreed.
I think it is a good solution.
Originally posted by SweetMeats
I think its a great idea. For a while people have discussed what would happen if the ritual was used on good dragon eggs, and now we know. These will really come as a surprise to my players. In fact I may just use this preview in an upcoming DL scenario.
Don't you mean evil dragon eggs? We already know what happens when you use the ritual on good dragon eggs, you get the baaz, kapak, bozak, sivak, aurak draconians.
Originally posted by jechambers
The actual size of the font won't change, but with smaller borders there will be more words on each page. So even though the War of the Lance book will be 224 pages (the size of Age of Mortals), it will actually be a book with more information.
I was hoping for a smaller font myself. One of the reasons the FRCS is so pleasant is that it is bursting at the seams with information. This may be the farm boy in me, but it just seems so wasteful to use more paper to convey the same amount of information. I'd rather have a 150 page book rather than a 220 page book if they both had the same info. It would probably be cheaper, but even if it wasn't I'd rather pay for the author than the paper.
Why are we using the larger font, if you don't mind me asking? Were people complaining that the FRCS was too hard to read? Is it dragonlance's younger demographic?
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Actually, this brings up a VERY good question. How will regular draconians view noble draconians?
I imagine there would be quite a bit of animosity, as their respective dragon parents are enemies, but with the building of Teyr, things may be different.
Thoughts?
I would love for Kang and his dragonmen to meet a Noble Draconian. There might be some resentment. After all, Kang and company had to work very hard to brake away from being evil. These guys are just born Good… how convenient. I can just picture plenty of humorous encounters.
Didn't mean to open a can of worms with that comment
It's more like a can of wyrms. :D
My 2ct's: Noble Draconians look very cool!
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Sorry, Tobin. Didn't mean to open a can of worms with that comment. :embarrass
It's okay...it was my fault...I think I was just oversensitive last week.
I apologize.
And for Cam...I fixed my ND spelling. :D
(you know...I have the same problem with angle/angel...I just can't wrap my brain around those endings...it's frustrating)
Originally posted by ferratus
Why are we using the larger font, if you don't mind me asking? Were people complaining that the FRCS was too hard to read? Is it dragonlance's younger demographic?
While I'd personally go with a tad smaller font I find the current DL font sizes workable. I am glad for the new, slender, border though.
As for FRCS I thought the font size was too darn small. AFAIK they're using 8pt size. To complicate matters, the background with its irregularities and artefacts (cool as they may be) makes it harder to read. To top it all, its font colour scheme is virtually non existant. It becomes hard to see where one section ends and another begins, when something is new section or a sub section of the current one.
Font wise, I definitely prefer DL's.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I would love for Kang and his dragonmen to meet a Noble Draconian. There might be some resentment. After all, Kang and company had to work very hard to brake away from being evil. These guys are just born Good… how convenient. I can just picture plenty of humorous encounters.
I think Kang would be kinda okay with the noble draconians, and would be willing to accept them into Teyr. He does want the draconian race to prosper, after all.