Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 brimstone Mar 10, 2004 17:13:59	Wow...look at this!!! Must be the new Boxed Set we've heard rumor of.
#2 talinthas Mar 10, 2004 18:49:10	HOLY CRAP.
#3 Nived Mar 10, 2004 18:56:30	I concur with talinthas. Holy Crap indeed. Awesome art... even if I always envisioned the Black Dragon... bigger.
#4 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 10, 2004 19:00:18	[complaining] I agree. Crap indeed. The dragon is too small/ugly. The staff of Magius doesn't look right. Is that supposed to be a two-handed sword? [/complaining]
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2004 19:03:07	Just read the entry on the DL.com site......Full color character sheets? Are these actual Dragonlance sheets? I mean...ones made specifically for DL games....ooooh cant wait....and dice....would this include a d20 like the one in the DLCS advertisement? Imagines that die in personal collection
#6 daedavias_dup Mar 10, 2004 19:12:56	*has seizure* ...Must...have...DL...Adventure...Game... Oh, and to go with what has been said...HOLY CRAP!
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2004 20:13:36	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer [complaining] I agree. Crap indeed. The dragon is too small/ugly. The staff of Magius doesn't look right. Is that supposed to be a two-handed sword? [/complaining] Larry studied Clyde Caldwell's original cover for Dragons of Despair to get the size and basic features of the dragon to match. Though Sturm's sword (the Brightblade) has often been described as a two-handed sword, Larry's original full-body ink illustration of Sturm (20 years old) shows him holding the sword in one hand. The Staff of Magius looks similar to the Dragonlance Legends version. So... matter of taste, truly, but there is some basis! Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2004 20:20:58	Originally posted by jechambers Larry studied Clyde Caldwell's original cover for Dragons of Despair to get the size and basic features of the dragon to match. Though Sturm's sword (the Brightblade) has often been described as a two-handed sword, Larry's original full-body ink illustration of Sturm (20 years old) shows him holding the sword in one hand. The Staff of Magius looks similar to the Dragonlance Legends version. So... matter of taste, truly, but there is some basis! Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc. HOLY ----! That looks freaking awesome! Kudos to Larry, I didn't know the old chap still had it in him... :D
#9 zombiegleemax Mar 10, 2004 21:03:48	Especially the way the Khishanth was described in DRAGONS OF AUTUMN TWILIGHT. She sounded much more magestic then she is being shown there.
#10 cam_banks Mar 10, 2004 21:12:36	Originally posted by jechambers Though Sturm's sword (the Brightblade) has often been described as a two-handed sword, Larry's original full-body ink illustration of Sturm (20 years old) shows him holding the sword in one hand. The Staff of Magius looks similar to the Dragonlance Legends version. Right - since as we must all have come to understand by now, the Brightblade is a bastard sword and Sturm has Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword). Cheers, Cam
#11 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 11, 2004 5:09:54	But that ain't a bastard sword. Just look at the hilt. It's too small to be held with two hands.
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 11, 2004 8:10:10	If Khisanth was a wrymling when she went into the Sleep, which started at about the time of Huma defeating the Dark Queen, and she awoke some few years before the War of the Lance... even taking into account the fact that the Sleep should have slowed the aging process for the dragons, I would estimate Khisanth at being about 300-400 years old (physically). This would make her Huge size, approximately 16-32 ft in length. Even if she were an age category smaller, she would be on the huge end of Large, which would still be between 8-16 ft. This Khisanth is barely Large at all, and if so, only because of her tail's length. Incidentally, what's supposed to be in the box?
#13 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Mar 11, 2004 8:56:06	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Just read the entry on the DL.com site......Full color character sheets? Yeah I'm jazzed about the charcater sheets. Full color by Larry Elmore! Whoo hoo! I wonder how much of a fanboy gamer geek i would look like for putting those on my wall. Heh
#14 brimstone Mar 11, 2004 10:41:37	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer [complaining] I agree. Crap indeed. The dragon is too small/ugly. The staff of Magius doesn't look right. Is that supposed to be a two-handed sword? [/complaining] Oh good...that's what we need... First...that's a Dragonlance dragon...always has been...and will always be recognized as such. If you want to talk about stupid sizes...let's talk about your favorite DL artist, Stawicki. Not only is the Brightblade in his paintings one-handed...but it's small enough to be a short sword. His Staff of Magius...four feet long at the most. Caramon's sword on DoSD...2 foot blade, at the most. Tas has no legs on the cover of War of the Twins. Gerard's sword on DoaVM...the blade looks like it's 4 feet in lenghth...where as Odilla's looks like a glorified dagger. And you know what...I like all those paintings, too. Basically what I'm getting at...who the hell cares how large a weapon is or if the dragon doesn't match exactly the size of the new 3e MM. It's art...and high quality at that. Why nit-pick at things that artists rarely even care about anyway? "Damnit, it says here in the PHB that a bastard-sword blade is three-and-a-half feet long...in this painting it's clearly only 3 feet long. He's ruining my Dragonlance!!" Lordy am I in a bad mood today...
#15 Dragonhelm Mar 11, 2004 11:33:51	Cheer up, Tobin. This isn't worth getting upset over. While dealing with the DL comic, the look of the Staff of Magius came up. I really started exploring the various looks of it, and couldn't find one concrete standard. Seems that there are 3-4 variants at least. Point is, there are some discreps like that here and there in DL. But these are minor discreps, and should not get in the way of enjoying a good book or a gaming product.
#16 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 11, 2004 11:44:10	Originally posted by Brimstone Not only is the Brightblade in his paintings one-handed...but it's small enough to be a short sword. His Staff of Magius...four feet long at the most. The thing is, no artist has done those weapons correctly (except for Stawicki with the staff of Magius). So it's not a gripe I have purely with Elmore's art. Plus I don't see that staff as being four feet long. It's at least five in DoSD, maybe six in TotT. As for the other stuff... Caramon's blade... Looks more like 3 feet. I admit I have no idea how long a longsword is supposed to be. Tas's legs... I have no idea what you're talking about. Gerard's sword... What kind of a sword is it supposed to be? A longsword, greatsword? Odila's sword... Looks like a longsword to me. A dagger? Gimme a break. As for artists not caring about stuff like that... They should.
#17 Dragonhelm Mar 11, 2004 11:57:25	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer The thing is, no artist has done those weapons correctly (except for Stawicki with the staff of Magius). From what I've seen, Stawicki doesn't have the dragon claw on his. I think he just has an orb. *shrugs*
#18 zombiegleemax Mar 11, 2004 12:01:41	Um, just to reiterate the main point of my post (even if I really spent much longer paging though the Black Wing, but then, what'd be the point in getting all the DL books if I didn't ever use them?), what is supposed to be in this box? Cool box though it may be, I'd much rather discuss the contents. Edit - Just found that near the beginning of Black Wing, Khisanth was 30' long. She had a number of decades to grow after that. The dragon, styles aside, *is* too small.
#19 talinthas Mar 11, 2004 12:16:42	well, when you look at DL1, she has a pathetically small amount of hit points, and 1st ed dragons were pretty damned small by themselves... and in 3.5, adult blacks arent all that big either.
#20 brimstone Mar 11, 2004 12:32:08	Just for reference a Longsword should have a blade of ~36", Bastard sword is usually around 42" and a two handed sword is usually a four foot blade. Now this is not including the pommel, grip, and cross piece...just the blade. On DoSD, Stawicki's Raistlin is sitting down...and the Staff is just a little over his head...so there's no way that is 5 feet. And yes, Time of the Twins...it is longer (probably around 6 feet)...but then Test of the Twins goes back to being small. Caramon's blade is only as long as his shin and knee on Spring Dawning...you're telling me you think his shin from foot to knee is 3 feet long? Tas's legs (which is the only real gripe I've ever had about Stawicki's art) on the cover of War of the Twins look way to small for his body...or something. Maybe it's the pose that makes them look small and I can't extrapolate the implied three dimentional aspect. I don't know, they just look weird. I'm not sure what kind of sword Gerard is supposed to have...but that sword just looks ginormous...especially with Odilla standing in front of it...it makes her either look incredibly tiny, or the sword big. Either way...it looks way to big to be hanging from the hip...he could never draw that quickly, and it's a helluva lost smaller than it is on the cover of Lost Star. A dagger is not a knife...it has anywhere from a 6" to a 14" blade...usually around a foot in length...plus whatever the handle is. A short sword is around 18" to 24" in length (blade-wise). Her sword there is very small. Look at the length of the scabbard. That can't be more than 2' in length. (I did say "glorified dagger" implying an exageration for effect) ;) I personally would like to see more standardization in Dragonlance art (and according to Art of the Dragonlance there was at the beginning). But...it's not going to happen. I mean...you can't even get artists to correctly depict if someone (like Caramon) is left-handed or not. They go with what looks good for the pose. Art is interpretation in it's purest form, I think. Which is why it doesn't actually bother me when things like this don't exactly match up to what they should be. (so long as the living "recognizeable" beings are anatomically correct) :D
#21 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 11, 2004 12:36:10	Originally posted by Dragonhelm From what I've seen, Stawicki doesn't have the dragon claw on his. I think he just has an orb. On the cover of DoSD, there's clearly a claw. On the cover of the Legends books 1 and 3 it seems to be missing.
#22 brimstone Mar 11, 2004 12:39:12	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer On the cover of DoSD, there's clearly a claw. On the cover of the Legends books 1 and 3 it seems to be missing. That's alright...I don't think any artist has ever painted it the same way twice.
#23 zombiegleemax Mar 11, 2004 12:39:47	Originally posted by pddisc Incidentally, what's supposed to be in the box? From dragonlance.com Introduction to Adventure! DRAGONLANCE novels have been in various bestseller lists for nearly twenty years, with the original books still in print and selling well. Now a series of original Young Adult novels (as well as young adult versions of the original DRAGONLANCE Chronicles) are being released to introduce younger readers (ages 9-12) to the DRAGONLANCE saga. This is the perfect opportunity to introduce both the young adult and family audiences to adventure gaming in the world of Krynn! The DRAGONLANCE Adventure Game includes all the rules and components needed to play right out of the box—including full-color character sheets, rules, maps, counters, and dice! For those wishing to continue the adventure, an enclosed sheet will tell them what products they will need. It is a nice cover, although I'll have to say that I also imagined Onyx differently. But It works fine the way we see it here.
#24 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 11, 2004 12:42:00	Originally posted by Brimstone lotsa stuff about sword sizes Well, I admit I suck at estimating lengths when feet and inches are used, since we use the metric system in Finland. So, uh, let's just stop the argument about swords and stuff, okay? We aren't getting anywhere, and we're never going to agree on the quality of Elmore's art. Plus it's off topic.
#25 brimstone Mar 11, 2004 13:16:31	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer So, uh, let's just stop the argument about swords and stuff, okay? We aren't getting anywhere, and we're never going to agree on the quality of Elmore's art. Plus it's off topic. Actually...it's on topic. (I created this thread to talk about this painting) Heh heh And sorry...I didn't mean to go off defending Elmore's art (cause I know it's super subjective)...it was supposed to just be about the specifics you mentioned not being an Elmore issue...but an issue with just about any artist I've seen for Dragonlance. Anyway...yeah, it's probably best to drop it. Sorry for goin' off the deep-end there...this has not been a good day.
#26 sweetmeats Mar 12, 2004 2:44:48	Is this an introductory product, like the D&D Adventure game box was? Or is this worth picking up by an established group?
#27 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 2:49:12	This seems to be more an introductory product...but if it does include full color character sheets I will be more than happy to pick it up and use the sheets for my own game.....wait....are these sheets already filled with pregenerated character stats? Awww.....that problem just ruined it for me...I hope that at least one is empty so that I can copy it for my players use....there really is no need for a specialized DL character sheet.....but it would be very cool
#28 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 6:54:27	Sorry to disappoint, Serena, but these full-color character sheets are going to be the pre-generated characters for use with the overall boxed set. Since there are no character generation rules inside the product, there really is no need for a blank character sheet. The characters in the adventure will be (to no one's surprise): Flint, Tanis, Tasslehoff, Caramon, Raistlin, Sturm, Goldmoon, and Riverwind. Each sheet will have a full-color Larry Elmore illustration on each side, with game material on one side of the sheet with description and roleplaying notes on the other. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#29 rath_the_ranger Mar 12, 2004 9:00:43	Originally posted by jechambers Sorry to disappoint, Serena, but these full-color character sheets are going to be the pre-generated characters for use with the overall boxed set. Since there are no character generation rules inside the product, there really is no need for a blank character sheet. The characters in the adventure will be (to no one's surprise): Flint, Tanis, Tasslehoff, Caramon, Raistlin, Sturm, Goldmoon, and Riverwind. Each sheet will have a full-color Larry Elmore illustration on each side, with game material on one side of the sheet with description and roleplaying notes on the other. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc. OK, I have to say that this is AWESOME, I have always been an Elmore fan and do enjoy his interpretations more than any other artist's, so this set will be nice to have just for the artwork (especially on the character sheets) IMO. As to the complaints about about sizes and whatnot, I must say that the first thing I thought when I saw the box was "Dang, Onyx sure does look way too small". But, as Brim said, it's all about interpretation and visualization in one's own mind, and keeping that in mind and just looking at the art, it's awesome
#30 brimstone Mar 12, 2004 9:53:55	I agree that she seemed some what smaller. But she does match the only other two previous depictions of Onyx as far as size and look goes, "Dragons of Triumph" and "In the Hoard," mostly (unless of course that's supposed to be Onyx on the cover of Black Wing which to keep me sane, I think it's not, heh heh) Although Elmore made the forward facing spikes of Caldwell's paintings just forward jutting teeth...and she is probably slightly smaller than the other two pictures. But...personally, I prefer the continuity of the painting as opposed to turning Onyx into one of the "monstrous" black dragons of 3e. (don't get me wrong though...I LOVE the design of the 3e Black draogn...it is my favorite...but that's just not Onyx to me).
#31 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 11:34:57	I have to say that I love the picture as whole, it gives me fond memories of when I first read Dragons of Autumn Twilight. The only problem I have, aside from size, is that Onyx's hind legs look like the legs of a bipedal creature. They are so long, and human shaped, that it looks like it would be awkward for her to walk on four legs.
#32 brimstone Mar 12, 2004 12:51:10	Originally posted by Shadowalk Nimblefeet The only problem I have, aside from size, is that Onyx's hind legs look like the legs of a bipedal creature. They are so long, and human shaped, that it looks like it would be awkward for her to walk on four legs. That too, I bet, comes from Caldwell's original designs for Onyx. You know...in searching for these pics I've come to a realization. Clyde Caldwell is a big fan of boobs.
#33 elf_nfb Mar 13, 2004 8:35:14	Originally posted by Brimstone You know...in searching for these pics I've come to a realization. Clyde Caldwell is a big fan of boobs. No more than Larry Elmore. Check out his picture of the female centaur in the DLCS. ;)
#34 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2004 12:13:12	For that matter check out his painting of Laurana in AoM.....massive boobs.......massive. I imagine she would have to make a fortitude save simply to keep from falling over from the front loaded weight.
#35 cam_banks Mar 13, 2004 12:38:04	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst For that matter check out his painting of Laurana in AoM.....massive boobs.......massive. I imagine she would have to make a fortitude save simply to keep from falling over from the front loaded weight. Are you looking at the same picture of Laurana as I am? Cheers, Cam
#36 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2004 12:40:13	Originally posted by Cam Banks Are you looking at the same picture of Laurana as I am? What I don't like about that picture is that Elmore gave her the exact same features as all the original dragons. ;)
#37 talinthas Mar 13, 2004 12:56:17	dude, laurana is one of the least endowed women i've ever seen elmore do! i swear, if there's ever been a 'normal' body shape in his art, this is the one =)
#38 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2004 14:47:39	I took a second look at the painting...and you are right...she isnt massively endowed...it's just that the amount of cleavage he has given her makes them appear really big.....imagine that....Larry Elmore invented Krynn's first push up bra...;)
#39 Los_Grak Mar 13, 2004 20:07:04	As far as the character sheets go: If they're not too specialized for each character, I may just scan them and use Photoshop to remove the type. That is, if it wouldn't cause any trouble.;)
#40 zombiegleemax Mar 15, 2004 21:11:28	Hey, I have a question: Will the stats for the Heroes of the Lance also be in the War of the Lance book, just as they are ni this one(except, of course, more fleshed out)? Because if not, I'll probably buy it, but if they are, I'll just skip it.
#41 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 9:51:25	Originally posted by Wraith 5 Hey, I have a question: Will the stats for the Heroes of the Lance also be in the War of the Lance book, just as they are ni this one(except, of course, more fleshed out)? Because if not, I'll probably buy it, but if they are, I'll just skip it. The stats for the Heroes of the Lance will most certainly be in the War of the Lance book this summer. Thanks! Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#42 rath_the_ranger Mar 16, 2004 12:54:07	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst I imagine she would have to make a fortitude save simply to keep from falling over from the front loaded weight. AND imagine that....Larry Elmore invented Krynn's first push up bra... HAHAHAHA Dude, you crack me up sometimes, that was great. In regards to that, I've always wondered why some artists depict elven females as well-endowed; I've always read them as slight of frame with small, supple...err...endowments (don't want to anger the morality gods HAHAHA). Of course, as was said, it's all about personal interpretation.
#43 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 16:04:46	Well with that in mind maybe we could get Soveriegn Press to publish a new Dragonlance Calendar...lol 12 months of the Ladies of the Lance;)