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Noble Draconians

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
baron_the_curse
Mar 11, 2004 20:00:13 The Noble Draconians are brilliant. Nice job guys. I always played with the idea of what would happen if the ritual that created the Draconians where perform on evil dragon eggs, I think many of us Dragonlance fans have ponder that once at least, but I was never brave enough to attempt my creation. Now I’m glad I didn’t try. I love the Venom Draconian, I can barely wait for May.
#2
Dragonhelm
Mar 11, 2004 20:08:06 Aren't they just great?

I was thinking about it today, and what hit me was that the noble drac allows players to play a type of draconian that is both rare and is naturally good-aligned. Both are great bonuses for character generation.
#3
zombiegleemax
Mar 11, 2004 20:08:36
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
The Noble Draconians are brilliant. Nice job guys. I always played with the idea of what would happen if the ritual that created the Draconians where perform on evil dragon eggs, I think many of us Dragonlance fans have ponder that once at least, but I was never brave enough to attempt my creation. Now I’m glad I didn’t try. I love the Venom Draconian, I can barely wait for May.

Glad you like the Vencom Draconian. Keep visiting Dragonlance.com every Wednesday for more previews!

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 12, 2004 7:50:02 I really enjoy the idea of the Noble Draconians as well but it seemed to me that some player info was missing from the Venom Draconian and I hope it just wasnt presented in the teaser.

I thought that more info for playing the Venom Drac should have been included such as modifiers to stats, full racial traits (such as the spell resistance) and the such. I think it is very important that if PC info is presented for a extra race such as this that it be complete. No gray areas just makes things go easier for all concerned.

I must say "YEAH BABY" to this book so far. I wasn't sure if I was going to buy this book but I guess I must do what I must.
#5
cam_banks
Mar 12, 2004 8:41:41
Originally posted by Hammerhand

I thought that more info for playing the Venom Drac should have been included such as modifiers to stats, full racial traits (such as the spell resistance) and the such. I think it is very important that if PC info is presented for a extra race such as this that it be complete. No gray areas just makes things go easier for all concerned.

The entry follows the same format as those in the 3.5 Monster Manual, which provides information on the creature as a character but not necessarily as a fully-detailed PC race. Thus, it says what the favored character is, possibly the domains chosen by clerics of that race, what the majority of the higher-level members of that race have as a class, etc. but not always the complete write-up on racial modifiers, etc.

That information is easily extracted from the creature write-up itself, which is in many ways the information you're asking for. For example, the venom draconian's racial ability score modifiers are +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha and it begins with 2 racial HD that provide base attack bonus of +2, base saves of +3, Run as a bonus feat and one other feat, +2 natural armor, base speed of 30 ft, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search and Spot as class skills (although it should have one more, since it should have 30 skill points - I recommend Disguise) etc etc. All of that with a LA of +2 means that a 1st level venom draconian character will have an effective character level of 5 (2 HD + 2 LA + 1 class level = 5 ECL).

Cheers,
Cam
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 12, 2004 16:57:42 Thanks for your comments Cam.

I just wish the +2 dex,cha and -2 wis and other info had been printed in the description and not expecting us to assume that a creature with a 13 in dex must have a +2 modifier in it.

Thanks again
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 12, 2004 17:14:46
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Thanks for your comments Cam.

I just wish the +2 dex,cha and -2 wis and other info had been printed in the description and not expecting us to assume that a creature with a 13 in dex must have a +2 modifier in it.

Its spelled out in the DMG.
#8
zombiegleemax
Mar 12, 2004 17:19:51
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Thanks for your comments Cam.

I just wish the +2 dex,cha and -2 wis and other info had been printed in the description and not expecting us to assume that a creature with a 13 in dex must have a +2 modifier in it.

Thanks again

We followed the standards and guidelines for monsters set by Wizards with the 3.5 Monster Manual. It's really not difficult to reverse-engineer the information once you become accustomed to re-tooling monsters.

Full race descriptions are reserved for books such as the proposed RACES OF ANSALON book for next year!

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
#9
zombiegleemax
Mar 12, 2004 17:22:01 Cool, thats great to hear Jamie.

kai Lord, Im glad you let me know as i wasn't aware that the info was in the DMG.

Thanks all and I can't wait for this book but especially the Book of Races.
#10
zombiegleemax
Mar 13, 2004 0:55:24 Awesome work. Love them. I wish I could read about these in a novel. Would be an interesting situation to throw these into conflict with Kang and his companions.
#11
fiendish_dire_weasel
Mar 13, 2004 1:26:57 I think what Hammerhand (and myself) was reffering to/hoping for is a stat block like this that you see in a lot of the more player-friendly races in the 3.5 MM (quoted from the SRD):

BUGBEARS AS CHARACTERS
Bugbear characters possess the following racial traits.
— +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma.
—Medium size.
—A bugbear’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Racial Hit Dice: A bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2,
and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1.
—Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 x (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb,
Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot.
—Racial Feats: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it two feats.
— +3 natural armor bonus.
— +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc.
—Favored Class: Rogue.
—Level adjustment +1.

It's kinda nice having it spelled out to help avoid errors of conversion. At the same time though, it probably eats a fair amount of space up. It's not like reverse-engineering the stats are that big of a deal, it's a convinience more than anything.
#12
zombiegleemax
Mar 13, 2004 6:16:12 That is exactly what I was talking about Fiendish.
#13
cam_banks
Mar 13, 2004 7:13:45
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
I think what Hammerhand (and myself) was reffering to/hoping for is a stat block like this that you see in a lot of the more player-friendly races in the 3.5 MM (quoted from the SRD):

Yes, I'm aware that's what he was asking for. Again, not all creatures get those entries, as in the case of the noble draconians. As Jamie says, this may end up being addressed in a Races of Ansalon supplement in the future.

Cheers,
Cam
#14
zombiegleemax
Mar 13, 2004 9:40:24 The "Races of Ansalon" book is lookig better and better all the time.
#15
brimstone
Mar 15, 2004 9:33:11
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
I think what Hammerhand (and myself) was reffering to/hoping for is a stat block like this that you see in a lot of the more player-friendly races in the 3.5 MM (quoted from the SRD):

The thing is...I think, is that if you put that "more PC friendly" stat block in on the Noble Drac...that's sending a clear message that it's okay to play a Noble drac...which I think it isn't...or it should be considered greatly before it is done.

If the NDs are as rare as the write up says...then they should only be used as NPCs...for the time being...and very sparingly used, at that. If they put that other stat block up there, I think it'd be sending the wrong message to the DMs.

But that's just my 2cp.

EDIT:Changed spelling. I think they will just be NDs for me from now on. heh heh
#16
cam_banks
Mar 15, 2004 9:40:41
Originally posted by Brimstone
The thing is...I think, is that if you put that "more PC friendly" stat block in on the Nobel Drac...that's sending a clear message that it's okay to play a Nobel drac...which I think it isn't...or it should be considered greatly before it is done.

Brim? These chromatic draconians are known as noble draconians, because of their nobler spirit and good alignment. A nobel draconian would be a draconian who wins international awards for science or peace efforts.

Cheers,
Cam
#17
brimstone
Mar 15, 2004 10:11:54 So...here's a question for you...

If the Draconians' children are now becoming more neutral...or moving more towards their patronage in alignment...wouldn't the same thing happen to the Noble Dracs? The children would become increasingly more evil (or would it all stop at neutral?)

More interestingly...how would the older Nobel dracs deal with this?
#18
brimstone
Mar 15, 2004 10:13:37
Originally posted by Cam Banks
A nobel draconian would be a draconian who wins international awards for science or peace efforts.

Har-dee-har-har.

I never claimed to be an excellent speller.
#19
cam_banks
Mar 15, 2004 10:45:56
Originally posted by Brimstone
Har-dee-har-har.

I never claimed to be an excellent speller.

That's OK, but in this case you had a lot of examples.

Cheers,
Cam
#20
Dragonhelm
Mar 15, 2004 10:50:30 As for an interesting race/class combo...

Noble draconian noble. :D
#21
iltharanos
Mar 15, 2004 12:24:13
Originally posted by Brimstone
The thing is...I think, is that if you put that "more PC friendly" stat block in on the Noble Drac...that's sending a clear message that it's okay to play a Noble drac...which I think it isn't...or it should be considered greatly before it is done.

If the NDs are as rare as the write up says...then they should only be used as NPCs...for the time being...and very sparingly used, at that. If they put that other stat block up there, I think it'd be sending the wrong message to the DMs.

But that's just my 2cp.

EDIT:Changed spelling. I think they will just be NDs for me from now on. heh heh

The Monster Manual states level adjustments are given for monsters that are suitable for use as PC races. The fact that the noble draconian has a listed level adjustment in its stat block supports the view that they are okay to play as a PC race.
#22
brimstone
Mar 15, 2004 13:24:57
Originally posted by iltharanos
The Monster Manual states level adjustments are given for monsters that are suitable for use as PC races. The fact that the noble draconian has a listed level adjustment in its stat block supports the view that they are okay to play as a PC race.

Yes...but it doesn't go so far as to add the larger Stat-block that apparently is in the 3.5MM (I don't actually remember seeing it in the 3eMM).

See Fiendish Dire Weasel's post above.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 baron_the_curse Mar 11, 2004 20:00:13	The Noble Draconians are brilliant. Nice job guys. I always played with the idea of what would happen if the ritual that created the Draconians where perform on evil dragon eggs, I think many of us Dragonlance fans have ponder that once at least, but I was never brave enough to attempt my creation. Now I’m glad I didn’t try. I love the Venom Draconian, I can barely wait for May.
#2 Dragonhelm Mar 11, 2004 20:08:06	Aren't they just great? I was thinking about it today, and what hit me was that the noble drac allows players to play a type of draconian that is both rare and is naturally good-aligned. Both are great bonuses for character generation.
#3 zombiegleemax Mar 11, 2004 20:08:36	Originally posted by Baron the Curse The Noble Draconians are brilliant. Nice job guys. I always played with the idea of what would happen if the ritual that created the Draconians where perform on evil dragon eggs, I think many of us Dragonlance fans have ponder that once at least, but I was never brave enough to attempt my creation. Now I’m glad I didn’t try. I love the Venom Draconian, I can barely wait for May. Glad you like the Vencom Draconian. Keep visiting Dragonlance.com every Wednesday for more previews! Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 7:50:02	I really enjoy the idea of the Noble Draconians as well but it seemed to me that some player info was missing from the Venom Draconian and I hope it just wasnt presented in the teaser. I thought that more info for playing the Venom Drac should have been included such as modifiers to stats, full racial traits (such as the spell resistance) and the such. I think it is very important that if PC info is presented for a extra race such as this that it be complete. No gray areas just makes things go easier for all concerned. I must say "YEAH BABY" to this book so far. I wasn't sure if I was going to buy this book but I guess I must do what I must.
#5 cam_banks Mar 12, 2004 8:41:41	Originally posted by Hammerhand I thought that more info for playing the Venom Drac should have been included such as modifiers to stats, full racial traits (such as the spell resistance) and the such. I think it is very important that if PC info is presented for a extra race such as this that it be complete. No gray areas just makes things go easier for all concerned. The entry follows the same format as those in the 3.5 Monster Manual, which provides information on the creature as a character but not necessarily as a fully-detailed PC race. Thus, it says what the favored character is, possibly the domains chosen by clerics of that race, what the majority of the higher-level members of that race have as a class, etc. but not always the complete write-up on racial modifiers, etc. That information is easily extracted from the creature write-up itself, which is in many ways the information you're asking for. For example, the venom draconian's racial ability score modifiers are +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha and it begins with 2 racial HD that provide base attack bonus of +2, base saves of +3, Run as a bonus feat and one other feat, +2 natural armor, base speed of 30 ft, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search and Spot as class skills (although it should have one more, since it should have 30 skill points - I recommend Disguise) etc etc. All of that with a LA of +2 means that a 1st level venom draconian character will have an effective character level of 5 (2 HD + 2 LA + 1 class level = 5 ECL). Cheers, Cam
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 16:57:42	Thanks for your comments Cam. I just wish the +2 dex,cha and -2 wis and other info had been printed in the description and not expecting us to assume that a creature with a 13 in dex must have a +2 modifier in it. Thanks again
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 17:14:46	Originally posted by Hammerhand Thanks for your comments Cam. I just wish the +2 dex,cha and -2 wis and other info had been printed in the description and not expecting us to assume that a creature with a 13 in dex must have a +2 modifier in it. Its spelled out in the DMG.
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 17:19:51	Originally posted by Hammerhand Thanks for your comments Cam. I just wish the +2 dex,cha and -2 wis and other info had been printed in the description and not expecting us to assume that a creature with a 13 in dex must have a +2 modifier in it. Thanks again We followed the standards and guidelines for monsters set by Wizards with the 3.5 Monster Manual. It's really not difficult to reverse-engineer the information once you become accustomed to re-tooling monsters. Full race descriptions are reserved for books such as the proposed RACES OF ANSALON book for next year! Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#9 zombiegleemax Mar 12, 2004 17:22:01	Cool, thats great to hear Jamie. kai Lord, Im glad you let me know as i wasn't aware that the info was in the DMG. Thanks all and I can't wait for this book but especially the Book of Races.
#10 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2004 0:55:24	Awesome work. Love them. I wish I could read about these in a novel. Would be an interesting situation to throw these into conflict with Kang and his companions.
#11 fiendish_dire_weasel Mar 13, 2004 1:26:57	I think what Hammerhand (and myself) was reffering to/hoping for is a stat block like this that you see in a lot of the more player-friendly races in the 3.5 MM (quoted from the SRD): BUGBEARS AS CHARACTERS Bugbear characters possess the following racial traits. — +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma. —Medium size. —A bugbear’s base land speed is 30 feet. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Racial Hit Dice: A bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1. —Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 x (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot. —Racial Feats: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it two feats. — +3 natural armor bonus. — +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. —Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc. —Favored Class: Rogue. —Level adjustment +1. It's kinda nice having it spelled out to help avoid errors of conversion. At the same time though, it probably eats a fair amount of space up. It's not like reverse-engineering the stats are that big of a deal, it's a convinience more than anything.
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2004 6:16:12	That is exactly what I was talking about Fiendish.
#13 cam_banks Mar 13, 2004 7:13:45	Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel I think what Hammerhand (and myself) was reffering to/hoping for is a stat block like this that you see in a lot of the more player-friendly races in the 3.5 MM (quoted from the SRD): Yes, I'm aware that's what he was asking for. Again, not all creatures get those entries, as in the case of the noble draconians. As Jamie says, this may end up being addressed in a Races of Ansalon supplement in the future. Cheers, Cam
#14 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2004 9:40:24	The "Races of Ansalon" book is lookig better and better all the time.
#15 brimstone Mar 15, 2004 9:33:11	Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel I think what Hammerhand (and myself) was reffering to/hoping for is a stat block like this that you see in a lot of the more player-friendly races in the 3.5 MM (quoted from the SRD): The thing is...I think, is that if you put that "more PC friendly" stat block in on the Noble Drac...that's sending a clear message that it's okay to play a Noble drac...which I think it isn't...or it should be considered greatly before it is done. If the NDs are as rare as the write up says...then they should only be used as NPCs...for the time being...and very sparingly used, at that. If they put that other stat block up there, I think it'd be sending the wrong message to the DMs. But that's just my 2cp. EDIT:Changed spelling. I think they will just be NDs for me from now on. heh heh
#16 cam_banks Mar 15, 2004 9:40:41	Originally posted by Brimstone The thing is...I think, is that if you put that "more PC friendly" stat block in on the Nobel Drac...that's sending a clear message that it's okay to play a Nobel drac...which I think it isn't...or it should be considered greatly before it is done. Brim? These chromatic draconians are known as noble draconians, because of their nobler spirit and good alignment. A nobel draconian would be a draconian who wins international awards for science or peace efforts. Cheers, Cam
#17 brimstone Mar 15, 2004 10:11:54	So...here's a question for you... If the Draconians' children are now becoming more neutral...or moving more towards their patronage in alignment...wouldn't the same thing happen to the Noble Dracs? The children would become increasingly more evil (or would it all stop at neutral?) More interestingly...how would the older Nobel dracs deal with this?
#18 brimstone Mar 15, 2004 10:13:37	Originally posted by Cam Banks A nobel draconian would be a draconian who wins international awards for science or peace efforts. Har-dee-har-har. I never claimed to be an excellent speller.
#19 cam_banks Mar 15, 2004 10:45:56	Originally posted by Brimstone Har-dee-har-har. I never claimed to be an excellent speller. That's OK, but in this case you had a lot of examples. Cheers, Cam
#20 Dragonhelm Mar 15, 2004 10:50:30	As for an interesting race/class combo... Noble draconian noble. :D
#21 iltharanos Mar 15, 2004 12:24:13	Originally posted by Brimstone The thing is...I think, is that if you put that "more PC friendly" stat block in on the Noble Drac...that's sending a clear message that it's okay to play a Noble drac...which I think it isn't...or it should be considered greatly before it is done. If the NDs are as rare as the write up says...then they should only be used as NPCs...for the time being...and very sparingly used, at that. If they put that other stat block up there, I think it'd be sending the wrong message to the DMs. But that's just my 2cp. EDIT:Changed spelling. I think they will just be NDs for me from now on. heh heh The Monster Manual states level adjustments are given for monsters that are suitable for use as PC races. The fact that the noble draconian has a listed level adjustment in its stat block supports the view that they are okay to play as a PC race.
#22 brimstone Mar 15, 2004 13:24:57	Originally posted by iltharanos The Monster Manual states level adjustments are given for monsters that are suitable for use as PC races. The fact that the noble draconian has a listed level adjustment in its stat block supports the view that they are okay to play as a PC race. Yes...but it doesn't go so far as to add the larger Stat-block that apparently is in the 3.5MM (I don't actually remember seeing it in the 3eMM). See Fiendish Dire Weasel's post above.