My most successful campaign to this day has been set in Karameikos. However, Alfheim and Glantri also remain some of my favorites.
Havard
Glantri is my top favourite, that's easy. It's what comes after that that is a tough pick. I like Karameikos, Darokin, Minrothad, the Northern Reaches, and Ylaruam alot.
1) Karameikos, for it's where it all started
and
2) Norworld, where one of my campaign ran for years, wreaking wars and destruction,
and many others.
Second would be Karameikos.
Third... tough to say, probably Alfheim.
Alphatia is interesting, its just so big and under-developed in DotE. (And sunk, if you're campaign went through WOTI). We're just starting a Mystara campaign, so its year 1000 all over again. Yippee.
From the "regular" countries I really like Minrothad and the Northern Reaches. And some parts of Glantri.
It took me a while - but now I also enjoy Ethengar very much.
Least favourite: Rockhome, Karameikos and Ylaruam.
Originally posted by Lost Woodrake
From the "regular" countries I really like Minrothad and the Northern Reaches.
Me too, I thought these were really well done. They aren't my number one picks, but it's only because there is so much good stuff to choose from.
I kinda like Ierendi.
I do NOT like all those Disneylands. And the idea of the yearly tournaments to elect the king and queen is extremely politically foolish. Even in Ierendi standards. (I slightly moderated that by making the tournaments every five years. At least the king will have some time to do something...)
But Ierendi has some very cool places. The Crazy Druid Island -with the doves and all - is simply charming. One of my favourite Mystara spots. And the Albinos. And the Makai.
I find Ierendi as a very good place for "we're-just-here-for-vacation-and-everything-goes-wrong" campaign. And I have a feeling that it might be much fun to role-play an Ierendi character. Never tried that, though.
There are so many awesome locations. Myself, most of my focus is narrowed to the Savage Coast. There, my favorite "country" is Cimarron and the Free City of Dunwick. Dunwick I play with a "Casablanca"-like theme and flavor. Cimarron itself I so enjoy having PCs deal with a society that evolved into a magical Wild West. It is a perfect place to break out those D20 "Dead Lands" rules, or Fantasy Flight Games' "Spellslinger"... and never leave Mystara!
But picking a favorite nation is like picking a favorite relative!
Regards,
Eric Anondson
I just noticed you're from Norway. Could I get your opinion on the Northern Reaches Gazeteer? Not its historical accuracy or anything; just whether it carries a fairly accurate 'flavour' to your mind.
Havard:
just noticed you're from Norway. Could I get your opinion on the Northern Reaches Gazeteer? Not its historical accuracy or anything; just whether it carries a fairly accurate 'flavour' to your mind.
I like the Northern Reaches Gazetteer. For the most part, I think it does carry an "accurate flavour" as you put it, especially in the descriptions of society and every-day life in general.
One thing that doesn't work too well IMO is the incorporation of the Norse Gods into Mystara. This becomes more apparent in the WotI Boxed set than the gaz though. Attempting to squeeze these very complex gods into the Immortal/Spheres of Power/Planes of Existance structure leaves much to be desired IMO. Thats why I have reverted to using the Hollow World names for these immortals and insisting that in spite of similarities, these are entirely different entities. My players appreciated that aswell, since Norse Myths is something we have grown up with sort of like fairy tales.
One other issue is the portrayal of Vestland. While I like the idea of a more modern Norse Country, Vestland seems to be a strange mix of Viking (1000AD Scandinavia with European Renaissance ideas thrown in). I would have liked to see Vestland more like a 1200s Scandinavia, not unlike Eusdria.
Thanks for your interest
Havard
Originally posted by Lost Woodrake
I have a confession to make:
I kinda like Ierendi.
Me too. After not touching the thing for years, and hearing some Internet bashing of it, I read through it again. And it's really not that bad. The silliness content is really not any higher than that of Glantri or Thar, and there are some pretty intriguing adventure possibilites. I think the main bone of contention some people have is that it didn't have some of the nice rules extras that you found in Glantri, Alfhiem, Rockhome, etc.
That said, Karameikos (generically enough) is my personal favorite. My favorite non-Karameikan country would have to be the Shadow Elves followed by Rockhome and Glantri.
R.A.
As for Karameikos - I am starting to think that the reason I didn't like it was that I've read it in a rotten translation, and not in English. Maybe it lost much of its flavour.
And as for Ierendi, I must confess that the cover art had much influence on the way I enjoyed the Gaz. I think Ierendi's is one of the best cover arts in the Gazetteer series.
(and i truly LOVE the whole concept of the Gazetteer cover art)
I think Ierendi's is one of the best cover arts in the Gazetteer series.
When I read this I couldn't remember what the cover looked like so I pulled it off thr shelf and sure enough, I agree, that is a cool cover. And yes, the cover concept for the gazetteers are awesome!
It's not that I hate Ierendi; it's just not nearly one of my favourites. For me, the part about Ierendi that I just can't come to like is the "amusement park" aspect of some of the islands. And the whole yearly tourney for king thing is a bit of a stretch, even if they're mostly figureheads.
by Lost
I slightly moderated that by making the tournaments every five years. At least the king will have some time to do something
I like this idea; perhaps because it makes winning that much more significant and prestigious. There will be fewer oppurtunities to win so when you enter you have to make it count.
Curiously, I don't recall anyone mentioning Thyatis at all, for good or bad. Personally, I haven't actually had a campaign where the PCs were there (and I don't know why either). Any thoughts from your games?
Originally posted by Hugin
Curiously, I don't recall anyone mentioning Thyatis at all, for good or bad. Personally, I haven't actually had a campaign where the PCs were there (and I don't know why either). Any thoughts from your games?
I really enjoyed Dawn of the Emperors, though I'd agree that it was a little overstretched in terms of the area it had to cover. But I liked the idea of detailing and choosing between a western Thyatian style campaign or an Alphatian based one.
Having always DMed games where the majority of characters hailed from Karameikos, Alfheim, Darokin or Thyatis I always fancied trying out an Alphatia-centric game.
As far as Thyatis goes I can't say it's my favorite country but I really like the idea of a culture based more on Byzantium than Rome (whether the published materials actually reflected this enough is a matter of opinion - but easily fixed in the playing)
As for my favorite nation I've always loved elves so its been Alfheim but I've been rereading the Princess Ark recently so my favorite at the moment is Bellayne (gotta love the cat puns
)
Curiously, I don't recall anyone mentioning Thyatis at all, for good or bad. Personally, I haven't actually had a campaign where the PCs were there (and I don't know why either). Any thoughts from your games?
I played lastly into Thyatis city and that was a good game (so I think). But I don't think I can maintain my 10th lvl PC in this country. It's too much civilized, organized to let freedom of action to adventurers PCs.
That'S why I love Norworld, Karameikos, Darokin... There's so much wilderness that adventure is on the corner of the next street.
However, I would like to try a 100% city campaign, and Thyatis City would bw just great, with all its political intrigue!
Even though Karameikos is one of my favourite nations I have never as yet used the valley of the Hutaakans. I'd like to incorporate them into my current game. Anybody out there have any opinions on them from past experience?
Even though Karameikos is one of my favourite nations I have never as yet used the valley of the Hutaakans. I'd like to incorporate them into my current game. Anybody out there have any opinions on them from past experience?
History always played an important role in my old Karameikos campaign. The Hutaakans are in some way a preserved part of a place in Karameikan history, and an encounter with them could help illustrate to the PCs what Traladara once was like and how much things have changed.
The Lost Valley is detailed in B10. However, the most likely result of that scenario is that the Hutaakans are either wiped out in the war with their degenerate Traldar slaves, or destroyed later, when the Gnolls find the valley, finnishing what they started a milennia before.
Still, that is up to the individual GM. You may decide that the Hutaakans survived. Or, you could decide that the Valley now is empty, leaving the PCs to search through the ruins to discover who lived there and what happened to them. The latter might be just as interesting. Also, there is the evil dwelling deep below the valley....
Havard
I miss more "asgardian" Immortals though...like Balder, Heimdall.
And Frey/Freya seem very different than the original deities they apparently originally were based on.
Glantri is still my favorite country for adventuring, though. It has it all....werewolves, vampires, monks, "spanish" elves, magic of all sorts....and the most original of all nations in any world, I think: The humanoid principality of Kol.
I miss more "asgardian" Immortals though...like Balder, Heimdall.
Hey, another norseman
Someone on the MML posted a revised Northman Pantheon for Mystara. Once the Vaults is back, I suspect it will appear there. Basically, it included more of the classic Norse Gods as other identities of already existing Immortals.
For instance Protius as Njaal, Gorzziok as Aegir etc. Cant remember who they had for Balder and Heimdall, if anyone. Koryis might be a good candidate for Balder...
Havard
Someone on the MML posted a revised Northman Pantheon for Mystara. Once the Vaults is back, I suspect it will appear there
If memory serves correctly, I think it was put in the Vaults at last update.
http://dnd.starflung.com/nrthpant.html
(The Vaults are back!) :D
Now this one is excellent as far as Norse Flavour goes, but includes several immortals not taken directly from mythology. Kit Navarro has come up with some really cool new names though.
If you prefer more standard norse types, they can easily be made up in a similar manner. Ideas for more norse immortals and who their other identities are?
Havard
Njaal?
That should have been Njord, sorry :embarrass
Here are some more suggestions to immortals:
Balder (Chardastes) - Patron of peace, ressurection
Tyr (Karaash) - Patron of War
Heimdall (Mealiden) -Patron of Watchmen
Hermod (Asterius) -Patron of Messengers
Uller (Zirchev) -Patron of Winter, Hunting and Archery
Idunn (Ordana?) - Patroness of Rebirth, Trees.
Bragi (Faunus) - Patron of Skalds and Poetry
Mimir (Noumenna) - Patron of Knowledge
Vidar (Halav) - Patron of Justice
Skadi (Diulanna) - Patroness of Skiing, Travelling, Hunting
Fenris (Wogar) - Patron of Wolves, Foul Beasts
The Great Serpent (Ka) - Patron of continuity
Surthur (Alphaks?) Patron of Fire Giants
Thrym () Patron of Frost Giants
Utgaards Loki (Masauwu?) -Patron of Giants
Maane (Asterius) Patron of the Moon
Sol (Ixion) Patron of the Sun
Aegir (Gorzziok) Patron of the Sea
Volund (Wayland) Patron of smiths
Sif (Vanya) Patroness of Women Warriors
Hod (??) Patron of the Blind, Patron of Victims
Elde (Khoronus) -Patroness(!) of Aging
Vali (Tarastia) -Patron of Vengance
Grid (Petra) -Patroness of Mercy
Frigga (Terra) - Patroness of Women, Houswives, Matrons and Queens
Also, IMC I am considering making Freyj and Freyja identities of Ilsundal and Valerias....
Thoughts?
Havard
Or they could even be just a different type of immortal creature like the Titan from the Codex book of WotI. Humans could even call them Immortals not realizing that they were in fact not truely so, but have many legends about them. It would add a different dimension to an Immortals campaign (though I myself would never run one).
What's your opinion on this idea?
Something I've been thinking about lately in regards to all of the "extra" Immortals like the ones Havard mentioned, is that perhaps some of these are not actually Immortals, but rather some kind of powerful celestial or outsider type of being. Kind of similar to the ways Entropic Immortals affiliate themselves with devils or demons.
I dont think that is such a bad idea. I guess I was getting a bit carried away when writing the list above. I am not sure if I recommend anyone to use the whole list.
As the Entropics associate themselves with Demons and Devils, the Immortals of the other Spheres have their own variants of such creatures. Titans and Archons (Angels) being some of them, but also in the Norse case, Einherjar, Valkyries, Alfar and Giants. Giants will be the norse equivalent of Demons, but far from all are associated with Entropy.
In the Mystaran Hierarchy, I suggest that the Path of the Exalted is a new path to immortality, one which is usually not available for mortals. Most who undertake this path begin as imps or other lesser planar creatures and eventually become Demons, Devils, Titans or similar creatures. These may again become true immortals by undertaking quests or completing nefarious schemes.
What do you think?
Havard
The suggestions about Titans and Archons are just what I was thinking about and for Norse that would be perfect; the NR gaz mentions some of these already be doesn't describe them.
I like it! They would have to be sponsered just like humans going for Immortality . If it is the Immortal himself who grants the lesser planar creature his new status than that lesser creature would have to perform great services for his sponser.
I recall Alphaks going from being a Roaring Demon to becoming a true Entropic Immortal in one of the M moduldes (M1?). So that would fit with this logic aswell.
The suggestions about Titans and Archons are just what I was thinking about and for Norse that would be perfect; the NR gaz mentions some of these already be doesn't describe them.
Yep. I already created Exalted type versions of many of these Norse creatures for OD&D, which should be available in the Monster section of the Vaults under Immortal Servants. However, I did these a long time ago, and I think they need some serious revisions.
As for the named Norse entities I listed earlier, I agree that many of these creatures could just as easily be exalted creatures. It is funny that while Immortals are always listed as individuals, Celestials, Demons, Devils and the like are usually mentioned only as monsters, rather than as NPCs. I am also in favor of allowing such creatures to provide spells, or possibly have their Sponsors grant spells through these beings. This will also allow Demons and Devils having their own little cults....
Btw: I am considering having Balder be an other identity of Ixion...
What do you think?
Havard
Btw: I am considering having Balder be an other identity of Ixion...
To be honest, I think you know alot more about Norse mythology than I. I only know what I've read in the NR gaz and some things out of the Viking campaign book I've read many years ago. I'd be more inclined to adopt something that someone like you developed than to try to figure it out myself.
This is a though question, like asking me to pick a favorite cheese or flavor of ice cream! It really depends on what it is I need at a particular moment, but generally my top 4 would have to be, in no particular order, Glantri, Yavdlom, Graakhalia, and Undersea. So many wonderful things about all of them....
For anyone who's interested, the results of a similar poll conducted a few years back on the MML is posted at http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0012E&L=mystara-l&P=R372
For anyone who remembers me, hello, and sorry for my rampant lurking, if I even get around to that. With each day I become more convinced I need to win the powerball and devote far more energy to supporting Mystara. Welcome to everyone who's new since I was active--I'm glad to see so much interest, and even more glad to see someone defending Ierendi in my absence
I've noticed Graakhalia appear on a few lists. I've always liked it, but found the information to be rather sparse so I rarely used it. Anyone use it a lot in their campaigns? I let in a gnoll PC wizard once, years ago, as a Graakhalian, but the character somehow ended up disliking elves. Apparently the player didn't get the point of what they were trying to do with the country...
My favorites would probably be Glantri and Alphatia, since I've always liked the high-magic thing. I tend to use Glantri more because it has more information out on it, and as a smaller country it's more contained. For lower magic, I'd probably choose Darokin or Thyatis. And I prefer the Shadow Elves so much more to the drow that I really can't even put words to the feeling.
..........................Omote
The gnoll character was one of my favorites and I hoped my new campaigners would choose one, but they were all obsessed with elves and half-elves. I told them there were none in Alfhiem, but they decided that the half-elf was a bastard child from a raped Wendar elf maiden by a man from Norwald. (Sounds more like DragonLance than Mystara, but I went with it so they would be happy)
For anyone who remembers me, hello, and sorry for my rampant lurking, if I even get around to that. With each day I become more convinced I need to win the powerball and devote far more energy to supporting Mystara. Welcome to everyone who's new since I was active--I'm glad to see so much interest, and even more glad to see someone defending Ierendi in my absence
Hi Patrick! I never got around to using your Achelos Adventures for my Karameikos campaign, but found those very inspiring.
As for Ierendi, I never cared much for that one. Still, as others pointed out, there are good parts of the Gaz, but they just seem to be drowned by the silly ones. It has been suggested to make Ierendi more of a Haven of Pirates ala Freeport. I wouldnt mind seeing a rewrite of the entire Gazetteer in that style, yet preserving the useable elements from the old gaz.
Havard
've always used it as a pirate haven, and a place for adventurers to get away when they need a break.
It sounds like that is the general consensus about the place. Ierendi doesnt seem to have much of an official government anyways. Independent little kingdoms and Pirate Cities could fit in quite well. "Freeport City of Adventure" is an excellent sourcebook to fill in some of the gaps.
Jenni Merrifeldt did a writeup for a Mystara/Freeport Timeline on the MML. It should be available on the Vaults.
The contest for the king, tourism and Disneyworld-elements must go, but the rest can be kept IMO.
Havard
Good to read you again, and thanks for the compliment! It's kinda like how I love the Blackmoor stuff (from you and the designers), so hopefully I'll get to DM there someday ;)
As for Ierendi, I really didn't see it as terribly Disneyesque, but rather thriving on the industry of adventure tourism, more akin to safaris or mountain-climbing than to theme parks. I never actually DMed Safari Island, but I think it has some real potential. On the other hand, turning Ierendi into a pirate kingdom also has great potential.
Patrick
Hey, Havard! Good to read you again, and thanks for the compliment! It's kinda like how I love the Blackmoor stuff (from you and the designers), so hopefully I'll get to DM there someday ;)
*Blush* :embarrass Thanks for noticing!
I dont think it will be too long before we see the Blackmoor Sourcebook now, but I agree that the wait has been almost unbearable so far...As for Ierendi, I really didn't see it as terribly Disneyesque, but rather thriving on the industry of adventure tourism, more akin to safaris or mountain-climbing than to theme parks. I never actually DMed Safari Island, but I think it has some real potential. On the other hand, turning Ierendi into a pirate kingdom also has great potential.
The concept of tourism in a fantasy setting just doesnt sit right with me. In most European countries, this phenomenon didnt exist untill long after WWII..
OTOH, if we change the words a little and say that these islands are popular areas for nobles from Thyatis and other countries to visit and hunt for wild animals etc, that fits better. IMC named Safari Island to Satari Island and noone knows the better.
Also, there is no reason why some of the other islands couldn't be pirate havens. We could even include contest for kingship as a pirate way of mocking the civilized countries of the Known World...
What do you think?
Havard
Originally posted by havard
We could even include contest for kingship as a pirate way of mocking the civilized countries of the Known World...
What do you think?
Havard
Extremely clever! This makes the whole bizzare contest thing seem actually profound!
The way things are presented, even specific words can change an idea from just plain silly to good. The Pirate King idea is IMO an example of this. In the original Ierendi, the King Trial seemed like one of those early OD&D ideas where one would let the PCs try out a feature of the system, this time being the Dominion Rules, without much more thought to it. Others have suggested that the "King" of Ierendi doesnt have much power, but that the nation is ruled by nobles and powerful merchants.
In this version, the Pirates have contests to see who will be next years Pirate King, but this being mostly a mockery of mainland traditions aswell as a form of entertainment for the pirates, including the lucky individual who is allowed to live, more or less, like a king for the next year.
Havard
My favorite countries... that's easy. The Great Hule, and the Heldannic Empire. And Old Alphatia sounds so awesome.
The only real source for Old Alphatia is M1 -Into the Maelstrom. It would be an interesting place to run a campaign, perhaps Spelljammer Style. The Heldannic Empire could easily become involved here aswell, as the Voyage of the Princess Ark suggests that they have a presence in space....
Havard
As a true capitalist I am partial to Darokin, although I like many of the other countries for various reasons. Among some of the other areas of Mystara that I enjoy DMing/playing in are: Broken Lands, Alfheim, Rockhome and Karameikos. Some of the far flung areas are: All over the Sea of Dread, Serpent Peninsula and the Jungle Coast.
A true capitalist? *Yikes* Run awaaay!
Some people have suggested that Darokin as presented is too much of a happy society and that portraying the darker elements of that society would open for more interesting roleplaying oportunities. Id be interested in running a serious campaign in the Broken Lands. Might be hard though....
Havard
Originally posted by havard
Some people have suggested that Darokin as presented is too much of a happy society and that portraying the darker elements of that society would open for more interesting roleplaying oportunities
In many ways, Minrothad brings the darker side of Capitalism, don't you think? (which is indeed why I find it more interesting)
In many ways, Minrothad brings the darker side of Capitalism, don't you think? (which is indeed why I find it more interesting)
Perhaps. I think Minrothad focuses more on the lower classes of society, whereas Darokin focuses mainly on the successful Merchants. The Darokin Gaz hardly goes into any detail about Darokins underworld, which must be heaven for any Thief type character. Would love to see more of that.
Cheers!
Havard
Apart from these two, i like Darokin / Karameikos, Norwold, and i'm sure Isle of dawn worth the visit (but i never been).
As for Ierendi, i think it's a good place, but which suffer from a bad description. For those who wants a pirate haven, there's already plenty (near Landfall, on the savage coast, on NE alphatia the yanivey islands, ...). you can't seriously imagine a pirate haven on the doorstep of Minrothad / Thyatis.
As for Ierendi, i think it's a good place, but which suffer from a bad description. For those who wants a pirate haven, there's already plenty (near Landfall, on the savage coast, on NE alphatia the yanivey islands, ...). you can't seriously imagine a pirate haven on the doorstep of Minrothad / Thyatis.
You have a point here. Having a pirate haven so close to the civilized nations doesn't really make sense. OTOH, the Five Shires already is such a pirate haven, isnt it?
Still, this has bothered be enough to think about relocating my Freeport Campaign to anoyther part of Mystara (This is one of the reasons why I havent told my players exactly where Freeport is yet). I have been considering placing it somewhere near the Thanegioth Archipelago. Heavy piracy in this area could also help explain why there is so little contact between Thyatis and the Savage Coast (in addition to Hule). Perhaps Hule in secret supports the pirates?
Still this leaves us with the problem of what to do with Ierendi. Cthulhudrew's Honor Empire is a possibility I suppose, but using that I would ditch the King Contest.
Hmmm...need to think about this some more....
Havard
if you want to put a pirate heaven near thyatis, why don't you try under the sind desert, north east of serpent Peninsula.
There is not much activity (because of the great waste for instance), the neighboring countries are no naval powers, and the place is in the middle of naval roads to go to the savage coast (or to north davania).
Also, there's already 2 cities (Kladanovic and Tyjaret). So either you add a third one, either you adapt one.
n.b. : the 2nd major road is by travelling "south" of the black moutains, "north" of Sind desert
i've made a map for having an idea on how minroth / darokinian traders can see the area (cf. http://www.dnd.starflung.com/nsptrade.html)
For ierendi, i see it as a composite place where there is some old elf, a shelter for powerful magus, some various humans, ... (i do not know much of this area).
My DM use it for spicing some NPC, sometimes.
Ierendi is an archipelago. It's a holiday place, or a private garden area.
I don't understand why everyone wants to populate it like if it was a great country.
You have to remember that Mystara is before all a "special" medieval settings. In medieval times, not all areas where overpopulated with more or less mighty nations (i hope i'm not confusing anyone here)
The map is awsome!
Having Freeport close to the Serpent Peninsula makes sense. There is something about having the Serpent's Teeth close to the Serpent Peninsula that just...well fits. I'd rather have them as islands though than as mainland cities. The Serpent's Teeth are just about 5 miles wide in total though, so they are easy to fit anywhere.
As for making Ierendi a large nation or not, I see your point. I guess the reason why so many discussions concern that issue is that it was presented as such by getting its own gaz. A private place, garden area or holiday location, which I agree is what the gaz made it be, doesn't really deserve its own gaz does it? I mean more than Wendar, Sindh and Heldann, which they never had time to do?
Havard
If someone show interest, i can finish it sooner and make the south part.
I easily admit that region like wendar, Sind, Denagoth, Norwold, ..., ..., ... :D should have been covered more and that ierendi Gaz would have deserved either more appealing / attractive background ideas, or less space, to keep a part for thanegioth (for instance and to stay in the archipelago style)
vault of pandius review
The fireship, the Fire islands and some other details are for me the most interesting / original things. the fact that it provides some guidelines for naval battles, can be interesting; i should ask my DM if he ever used it.
Anyway, they try to do something original. i imagine someone at TSR take the risk. Sometimes it pays, sometimes not
A point for you. It is said that some people in Ierendi are descendants of pirates, so you can put a pirate heaven here, just a long time ago ... :D
As for Ierendi, I never cared much for that one. Still, as others pointed out, there are good parts of the Gaz, but they just seem to be drowned by the silly ones. It has been suggested to make Ierendi more of a Haven of Pirates ala Freeport. I wouldnt mind seeing a rewrite of the entire Gazetteer in that style, yet preserving the useable elements from the old gaz.
Did you read my post here about "Honor Empire"? Where I postulated fleshing out Ierendi as a front for the interests of the Honor Islanders? Hoping to develop that idea a bit further soon, but the gist would be that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than is evident from the "tourist trap" appearances of the nation, and that it is in fact (has been) a tremendously, meticulously planned out enterprise from the days of Mad Creeg's rebellion. Sort of an Illuminati kind of nation, with the Honor Islanders as the Illuminati.
Anyway, to bring things back to topic... my favorite nation? Tough call. I suppose I'd have to say Glantri, just because of the vast array of things going on there- it's almost like a macro-nation of a bunch of tiny little cultures.
Aside from that, I love the Ethengar Khanates, due to the mongol nature of the place (the mongols are my favorite RW culture, though the celts are fast catching up). I'd like to see them get a bit more of their due, though. The Gaz handled them really well, but subsequent products haven't done quite as good a job. (Theory- all those grassy northern plains west/nw of wendar- could they be populated by lost clans of the Ethengars? The Ethengars settled in the northern lands, and the 'noids from whom much of their culture derived- Akkila-Khan's horde- came from that way. Perhaps there is another Ethengarian "preserve" in that region, just waiting to be reunited with their lost cousins... hmm.)
Also, the Broken Lands and Darokin are some favorite places.
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
(Theory- all those grassy northern plains west/nw of wendar- could they be populated by lost clans of the Ethengars? The Ethengars settled in the northern lands, and the 'noids from whom much of their culture derived- Akkila-Khan's horde- came from that way. Perhaps there is another Ethengarian "preserve" in that region, just waiting to be reunited with their lost cousins... hmm.)
I like that. It might explain well their strange cultural location, that bothered me once. They are not such a minority - just an cultural "island", stranded from their cousins.
Originally posted by Arghis
i've made a map for having an idea on how minroth / darokinian traders can see the area (cf. http://www.dnd.starflung.com/nsptrade.html)
Whoa! Great map Arghis! Really neat. If you have any more merchant maps of the Savage Coast, the Known World (my own from Gaz 9 is divided as 8 .pdf pages
) or even Norwold, Alphatia and the Isle of Dawn, please send us links!!In the last 3-4 campaigns my group of players always decided along the way to invest their bloody hoards of looted gold into "civilized" enterprises such as merchant companies etc. It allowed them to have alternate identities, spy networks and generally just a lot of fun competing against other merchants. (talk about fantasy RPG meets Monopoly :D )
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by havard
The concept of tourism in a fantasy setting just doesnt sit right with me. In most European countries, this phenomenon didnt exist untill long after WWII..
OTOH, if we change the words a little and say that these islands are popular areas for nobles from Thyatis and other countries to visit and hunt for wild animals etc, that fits better. IMC named Safari Island to Satari Island and noone knows the better.
Also, there is no reason why some of the other islands couldn't be pirate havens. We could even include contest for kingship as a pirate way of mocking the civilized countries of the Known World...
Like Havard, I never really liked the tourism aspect of Ierendi, but I find this idea about nobles comming to Safari Island to hunt interesting. I remember reading many years ago about the great hunts that Marco Polo went on with the Emperor of China. They lasted weeks and hundreds of different animals were killed or put in cages and transported back to the palace.
What if Safari Island offers the ultimate hunting experience for the bored and wealthy nobles of the Known World's nations? Most of the island's population could find work as guides, clappers, trappers, monster handlers, sailors, inn-keepers, cooks etc. etc.
It could be a sign of status among nobles to have trophys on the wall or pet monsters in one's garden from Safari Island?
(It could also be yet another excuse to kill off unwanted NPC's in your campaigns? "Yes, tragically Don Ricardo de Belcadiz was eaten by a dinosaur on Safari Island last summer. Poor chap should have stuck with bullfighting").
As for the pirate debate further down in the thread:
AFAIK the Hin pirates concentrate their efforts on shipping from Thyatis and Black Eagle Barony and there aren't really that many of them. Indeed, attacking the ships from Darokin or Ierendi would in the long run ruin the long friendship with these nations.
I have always used Ierendi as a pirate heaven but not on a large and organised scale. More like individual ships that operate out of secret coves, where they hide their fabulous treasures. IMO if there ever was a large concentration of pirates in the area (not privateers mind you!) the Ierendi Navy would be among the first to root them out and destroy them...
I always liked the idea of the Tournament because it fits my idea of the attitude of the Ierendi people. They have been under the dictator's hand before (Thyatis) and now that they have their freedom they follow an old pirates' code: best (i.e. strongest) man for the job. If ya can't defend your place, ya ain't worthy to be a king! Of course, behind the scenes the wealthy families wield a lot of power to ensure some measure of stability.
On the Vault there is a file with questions that can be used as a part of the Tournament to ensure that the king has brains as well as brawn. I use them IMC.
Questions:
http://www.dnd.starflung.com/itourney.html
Answers:
http://www.dnd.starflung.com/itournan.html
:-) Jesper
Originally posted by Arghis
yes the map is not bad, thx. but it is not finished. i've put this project near the end of my to do list, as it seems it interest no one (even my DM don't need it - we play in Heldann these times and we have no merchant). Anyway, i had began this work just to test various things and finish it later (for now this map just lack some details, the essential is here)
If someone show interest, i can finish it sooner and make the south part.
I easily admit that region like wendar, Sind, Denagoth, Norwold, ..., ..., ... :D should have been covered more and that ierendi Gaz would have deserved either more appealing / attractive background ideas, or less space, to keep a part for thanegioth (for instance and to stay in the archipelago style)
Excellent map!
However I must say: Sind (and the Serpent Peninsula) has already been detailed in pretty much the same amount of depth in the Champions of Mystara set, almost as detailed as, say, Karameikos, though I'll admit it's a little light. Denagoth and Norwold certainly did deserve more, along with a number of other places (imho they tried to cram too much into DotE and quite a few of the colonies could have been turned into Gazeteers on their own, I think you could probably get two out of the Isle of Dawn alone and another out of Ochalea, not to mention all the other spots)
As far as Thanegioth, I don't like the idea of detailing it: it's a good idea to leave a few wilderness areas open for the DM to develop and Thanegioth is one of them in my mind.
Originally posted by Cthulhudrew
Did you read my post here about "Honor Empire"? Where I postulated fleshing out Ierendi as a front for the interests of the Honor Islanders? Hoping to develop that idea a bit further soon, but the gist would be that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than is evident from the "tourist trap" appearances of the nation, and that it is in fact (has been) a tremendously, meticulously planned out enterprise from the days of Mad Creeg's rebellion. Sort of an Illuminati kind of nation, with the Honor Islanders as the Illuminati.
Rereading that writeup, I think that alot of it makes sense. I like the behind the scenes part very much. Also, it makes sense to make use of the good parts of the gaz, rather that ditch the whole thing. Since I've already paid for the gaz, I might aswell use the parts I like, right?
OTOH, I think the fascade needs to be modified. I don't mind keeping the King's Contest, aslong as it is specified that this is sort of a festival ritual. Most people should probably know that this Champion King isn't the actual ruler.
Also, changing "Tourism" into "favored location for known world nobility to go wild beast hunting" helps a long way into making the Islands a place I can take more seriously.
The Honor Islanders dont neccesarily have to be all the way Illuminati Conspiracy-ish. It could be common knowledge that they rule the place, but that they prefer to do so behind a mask of rituals and festivities which are popular among locals aswell as visitors.
What do you think?
Havard
Originally posted by havard
The Honor Islanders dont neccesarily have to be all the way Illuminati Conspiracy-ish. It could be common knowledge that they rule the place, but that they prefer to do so behind a mask of rituals and festivities which are popular among locals aswell as visitors.
What do you think?
Well, I don't think the Honor Island mages would bother to run a kingdom? I mean if they and not the wealthy families on the main island are behind everything they would have to be involved in all sorts of decision-making and politics, which would drag them away from their planar exploits and magical experiments. And what would they get in return?
Wealth?
Seems to me they must have plenty of that already to build the fireships... or they can probably sell some rare items and materials gathered on the elemental planes.
Power?
Perhaps, but what would they use it for? it's not like Ierendi can invade other contries if the mages wanted to do that. Their army isn't big enough.
Political world influence?
Again, what would they use it for?
To ensure their privacy?
I think that between the fireships, the goblin and elemental slaves and servants and the mages themselves they got that covered *LOL*
IMC I use the Honor Island mages as a secret society that may-may not have a dark agenda. Perhaps they are allies with the Flaems in Glantri and seek revenge on Alphatia or to return to their old world? Perhaps they want to enlist the help of elemental armies of efreeti and then conquer the Known World? Who knows.
My point is that as long as governing Ierendi is just time away from their main interest - the planar gate research - I don't see them as behind-the-scenes rulers.
:-) Jesper
As for their motivation, they certainly need to have one. Whatever it is, power is always a means to something, so I have no problem with the mages wanting to control Ierendi for power alone. Ofcourse, they may not care to take care of all the practical things themselves, but I'd think that they would appoint someone to take care of these things rather than rely on the Contest King to do a good job...
Havard
How can you not love Glantri?
On the other hand, I found I really loved the original Darokin Gaz. I know others want a 'darker' version, but for me it was nice to see a merchant kingdom that wasn't automatically corrupt and indeed had some positive aspects.
Karemekois is certainly vibrant setting.
I am not a big fan of elves and elvish nations, but Alfheim is one of the few I liked. I really hated to see it fall to the shadowelves.
Well, I don't think the Honor Island mages would bother to run a kingdom? I mean if they and not the wealthy families on the main island are behind everything they would have to be involved in all sorts of decision-making and politics, which would drag them away from their planar exploits and magical experiments. And what would they get in return?
The main thing I see is that they get the isolation that they have always craved, so they can do the things that you mention. I don't imagine every single one of the wizards there is involved in Ierendi politics, nor are the ones that are always "actively" involved.
(I really have to sit down and do a more complete writeup as soon as I finish a couple of other things here...)
Recall that Ierendi is basically ruled by the Tribunal, with strong political lobbies in a Council of merchants, with the King and Queen basically being figureheads. The way I propose, this system has been set up by the Honor Islanders (in large part) in order to keep the government stable, but out of the hands of singular interests- the Tribunal rules the islands by themselves, but they are kept in check by the personal interests of the Councilmembers as well. The lack of a dynastic ruling regime (ie, a king, queen, and their heirs) combined with a division of authority among the various Tribunal members, keeps any sort of long term policies (particularly expansionist goals or adversarial politics) from settling into place and thus drawing unwanted attention to the Isles- and Honor Island. The Honor wizards only really need to get involved if a) they decide they need/want some sort of policy introduced into the government, or b) they feel it necessary to involve themselves into the process in order to maintain the system as it stands (ie, someone shows themselves as a threat to the "stability" of the system, say- someone who continually wins the Crown Tourney year after year, is elected "king for life" and decides he wants to be more than just a "figurehead"?)**
Now, the "tourist" angle complicates this of course (draws thousands of people to the islands each year, just what the HIs don't want). I figure, though, even this can be explained. Keeping Ierendi "tourist happy" makes people disregard the isles as any sort of threat (so expansionist eyes ignore, or largely ignore, them). By providing specific "attractions"- like Safari isle- it steers them the way the HIs want (ie, away from HI). To an extent, it might even allow the HIs (through the Ierendi government) to keep an eye on what's going on- keeping track of the tourists, where they go, how many there are, length of stay, etc.
Anyway, just some thoughts. They don't have to be complete Illuminati (like I suggested above), but could be somewhat more passive about things (like here). Depends on the flavor you want.