Dark Elves in Mystara - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dark Elves in Mystara

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Mar 16, 2004 10:39:05 Recently, I noticed a passage in one of the Gazeteers that escaped my attention for many, many years.

In the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, a subrace of Dwarves, the Modrigswerg, is mentioned. It is mentioned the Modrigswerg are products of influence from a human cult of demonic worshippers and an evil race of "dark elves", all three part of a conspiracy to "bind the powers of life and magic into devices which might be used to conquer and rule the world."

It doesn't say anything else about these "dark elves" except "the fates of the dark elves ... do not concern us here."

So who were these dark elves? I have a hard time imagining they could be referring to the Shadowelves ... who are white-haired and "even paler than their surface cousins". Are they mentioned anywhere else?
#2
zombiegleemax
Mar 16, 2004 12:09:20 When reading the individual Gazetteers, I always chalk inconsistencies between them as "local prejudice." In the case of the "Dark Elves", hundreds, maybe thousands of years have past. The stories of the Northmen and even the long-lived Rockholm dwarves have passed from truth, to legend, to fable and allegory.

The "dark" might not be referring to skin color, but to mood or behavior. It might be a mistranslation from dwarvish or an older dialect of the language.

Anyway, I've also thought the Dark Elves were Shadow Elves (it's pretty easy to see how "dark" could be mistranslated as "shadow"). I've always thought that "bind[ing] the powers of life and magic into devices which might be used to conquer and rule the world" was a pretty accurate, if somewhat slanted, view of what the Shadow Elves are attempting to do in the City of the Stars. I assume that at some point of their history, the Shadow Elves secretly contacted the Modrigswergen for help building their Nucleus.

The "demon worshippers" may be a slander on the worship of Raphael, or more likely, a reference to Atzanteotl, who had some hand in corrupting the relationship between the Shadow Elves and Modrigswergen, and corrupting the Modrigswergen themselves. Maybe there was some mishap with radiation, causing the mutation of the Modrigswergen...

R.A.
#3
zombiegleemax
Mar 16, 2004 12:30:45 It could be taken that way, indeed.

But that raises another question.

Who are the humans in this tale, the cultists worshipping "the Father of All Demons?"

Supposedly they were masters of summoning, and binding. Nithians? Taymorans?
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 16, 2004 14:03:09
Originally posted by Edgewaters
It could be taken that way, indeed.

But that raises another question.

Who are the humans in this tale, the cultists worshipping "the Father of All Demons?"

Supposedly they were masters of summoning, and binding. Nithians? Taymorans?

I'm not as versed in the timelines as many here, but the humans could be the Atzanteotl worshipping proto-Azcans living in the underground city Aenkmar prior to the humanoid invasion. Would this work out historically?

R.A.
#5
zombiegleemax
Mar 16, 2004 16:04:18
Originally posted by rogueattorney
I'm not as versed in the timelines as many here, but the humans could be the Atzanteotl worshipping proto-Azcans living in the underground city Aenkmar prior to the humanoid invasion. Would this work out historically?

R.A.

Sort of. The first inhabitants of Aengmor/Oenkmar were Azcans, worshipping Atzanteotl. The Shadow Elves attacked and drove them out, later the city was destroyed in a disaster and abandoned, discovered a long time later by humanoids. So at one point you do have Shadow Elves and Azcans in the vicinity of Aengmor/Oenkmar. They are enemies; however the SE do subsequently adopt the religion of the Azcans and keep the temple to Atzanteotl that was there. So it's possible that a cult of human Azcan followers might have been around after the SE conquest ... or were invited to return to teach them the ways of Atzanteotl ...
Having a clan of dwarves somehow get involved too, wow. The history of Aengmar/Oenkmar presented in the Gazeteers dealing with it may have left alot unsaid ...

Also this is before the time of Rafiel's worship among the SE ... and so it is before the time of Soul Crystals, and the Chamber of Spheres, and all that, so whatever the "devices" were, they weren't that, unless Atzanteotl was doing something along the same lines earlier than Rafiel. This, too, would be pretty interesting if it occurred.
#6
Hugin
Mar 16, 2004 22:44:47 I read the history of the Modrigswerg Dwarves in the gazetteer and when I read "Father of Demons" the thought that came to me was Thanatos, or possibly Alphaks; Immortals of the sphere of Entropy. As for the cult, maybe Alphatians who couldn't cast spells and so turned to the Immortals for power. Nobody offers power like an evil Immortal! Could easily be both Immortals or more as it does say they were "a obscure cult worshipping Immortals...".

They could easily be interested as the Gaz says "this conspiracy sought to bind the powers of life and magic into devices which might be used to conquer and rule the world". Alphaks wants Alphatia destroyed and Thanatos everything else.

Unless I'm missing something, this sounds as though it happened only a matter of centuries ago. Anyhow, that's what I thought. Possible AFAIK, but is it plausable?
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 16, 2004 22:48:26 It's sort of a mystery, isn't it?

I kind of loved finding this. Nothing like a few loose ends to keep you guessing, and give you something to write about.
#8
zombiegleemax
Mar 18, 2004 15:08:06 Back to the dark elves:

How do you understand the dark elf on the cover of the Alfheim Gazetteer? As simply an Alfheim stereotype of Shadow Elves?

I think it is one of the only instances that the cover art contradicts the canon material itself. The only other example I can think of is the picture of that Shadow Elf Shaman, wearing a bikini on the cover of GAZ13. Aren't the Shadow Elves supposed to be ultra-conservative and sexually naive?
#9
zombiegleemax
Mar 18, 2004 15:19:03
Originally posted by Lost Woodrake
Back to the dark elves:

How do you understand the dark elf on the cover of the Alfheim Gazetteer? As simply an Alfheim stereotype of Shadow Elves?

I think it is one of the only instances that the cover art contradicts the canon material itself. The only other example I can think of is the picture of that Shadow Elf Shaman, wearing a bikini on the cover of GAZ13. Aren't the Shadow Elves supposed to be ultra-conservative and sexually naive?

I think it's a case of Clyde Caldwell taking some liberties with the source material.

http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gz/gaz13.htm

http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gz/gaz5.htm

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 10:39:05	Recently, I noticed a passage in one of the Gazeteers that escaped my attention for many, many years. In the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, a subrace of Dwarves, the Modrigswerg, is mentioned. It is mentioned the Modrigswerg are products of influence from a human cult of demonic worshippers and an evil race of "dark elves", all three part of a conspiracy to "bind the powers of life and magic into devices which might be used to conquer and rule the world." It doesn't say anything else about these "dark elves" except "the fates of the dark elves ... do not concern us here." So who were these dark elves? I have a hard time imagining they could be referring to the Shadowelves ... who are white-haired and "even paler than their surface cousins". Are they mentioned anywhere else?
#2 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 12:09:20	When reading the individual Gazetteers, I always chalk inconsistencies between them as "local prejudice." In the case of the "Dark Elves", hundreds, maybe thousands of years have past. The stories of the Northmen and even the long-lived Rockholm dwarves have passed from truth, to legend, to fable and allegory. The "dark" might not be referring to skin color, but to mood or behavior. It might be a mistranslation from dwarvish or an older dialect of the language. Anyway, I've also thought the Dark Elves were Shadow Elves (it's pretty easy to see how "dark" could be mistranslated as "shadow"). I've always thought that "bind[ing] the powers of life and magic into devices which might be used to conquer and rule the world" was a pretty accurate, if somewhat slanted, view of what the Shadow Elves are attempting to do in the City of the Stars. I assume that at some point of their history, the Shadow Elves secretly contacted the Modrigswergen for help building their Nucleus. The "demon worshippers" may be a slander on the worship of Raphael, or more likely, a reference to Atzanteotl, who had some hand in corrupting the relationship between the Shadow Elves and Modrigswergen, and corrupting the Modrigswergen themselves. Maybe there was some mishap with radiation, causing the mutation of the Modrigswergen... R.A.
#3 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 12:30:45	It could be taken that way, indeed. But that raises another question. Who are the humans in this tale, the cultists worshipping "the Father of All Demons?" Supposedly they were masters of summoning, and binding. Nithians? Taymorans?
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 14:03:09	Originally posted by Edgewaters It could be taken that way, indeed. But that raises another question. Who are the humans in this tale, the cultists worshipping "the Father of All Demons?" Supposedly they were masters of summoning, and binding. Nithians? Taymorans? I'm not as versed in the timelines as many here, but the humans could be the Atzanteotl worshipping proto-Azcans living in the underground city Aenkmar prior to the humanoid invasion. Would this work out historically? R.A.
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 16:04:18	Originally posted by rogueattorney I'm not as versed in the timelines as many here, but the humans could be the Atzanteotl worshipping proto-Azcans living in the underground city Aenkmar prior to the humanoid invasion. Would this work out historically? R.A. Sort of. The first inhabitants of Aengmor/Oenkmar were Azcans, worshipping Atzanteotl. The Shadow Elves attacked and drove them out, later the city was destroyed in a disaster and abandoned, discovered a long time later by humanoids. So at one point you do have Shadow Elves and Azcans in the vicinity of Aengmor/Oenkmar. They are enemies; however the SE do subsequently adopt the religion of the Azcans and keep the temple to Atzanteotl that was there. So it's possible that a cult of human Azcan followers might have been around after the SE conquest ... or were invited to return to teach them the ways of Atzanteotl ... Having a clan of dwarves somehow get involved too, wow. The history of Aengmar/Oenkmar presented in the Gazeteers dealing with it may have left alot unsaid ... Also this is before the time of Rafiel's worship among the SE ... and so it is before the time of Soul Crystals, and the Chamber of Spheres, and all that, so whatever the "devices" were, they weren't that, unless Atzanteotl was doing something along the same lines earlier than Rafiel. This, too, would be pretty interesting if it occurred.
#6 Hugin Mar 16, 2004 22:44:47	I read the history of the Modrigswerg Dwarves in the gazetteer and when I read "Father of Demons" the thought that came to me was Thanatos, or possibly Alphaks; Immortals of the sphere of Entropy. As for the cult, maybe Alphatians who couldn't cast spells and so turned to the Immortals for power. Nobody offers power like an evil Immortal! Could easily be both Immortals or more as it does say they were "a obscure cult worshipping Immortals...". They could easily be interested as the Gaz says "this conspiracy sought to bind the powers of life and magic into devices which might be used to conquer and rule the world". Alphaks wants Alphatia destroyed and Thanatos everything else. Unless I'm missing something, this sounds as though it happened only a matter of centuries ago. Anyhow, that's what I thought. Possible AFAIK, but is it plausable?
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2004 22:48:26	It's sort of a mystery, isn't it? I kind of loved finding this. Nothing like a few loose ends to keep you guessing, and give you something to write about.
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 18, 2004 15:08:06	Back to the dark elves: How do you understand the dark elf on the cover of the Alfheim Gazetteer? As simply an Alfheim stereotype of Shadow Elves? I think it is one of the only instances that the cover art contradicts the canon material itself. The only other example I can think of is the picture of that Shadow Elf Shaman, wearing a bikini on the cover of GAZ13. Aren't the Shadow Elves supposed to be ultra-conservative and sexually naive?
#9 zombiegleemax Mar 18, 2004 15:19:03	Originally posted by Lost Woodrake Back to the dark elves: How do you understand the dark elf on the cover of the Alfheim Gazetteer? As simply an Alfheim stereotype of Shadow Elves? I think it is one of the only instances that the cover art contradicts the canon material itself. The only other example I can think of is the picture of that Shadow Elf Shaman, wearing a bikini on the cover of GAZ13. Aren't the Shadow Elves supposed to be ultra-conservative and sexually naive? I think it's a case of Clyde Caldwell taking some liberties with the source material. http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gz/gaz13.htm http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/gz/gaz5.htm