Gamma World was a campaign setting for Alternity; the rules were included, so you could play sans core books.
Hope this helps.
Later.
The Alternity edition was somewhat darker and less whimsical from other editions. It being an Alternity setting, the ruleset was horrid. Of course, when haven't the GW rules been horrid? Oh! When GWD20 was released! GW4 was almost a decent ruleset...
Anyways, get GWD20! It's an excellent successor to the legacy of GW. And It's even playable!
Alternity is Dead! Long live Gamma World!...
With all due respect, I beg to differ! Alternity lives as long as someone, somewhere is playing it. Judging by the hundreds of registered users on Alternity.net and tequilastarrise.net, GW5e (Alternity) is alive and well.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion re: D20, and I will reserve mine, as I've made it abundantly clear over on A.net (search the forums there, I use the same handle) my feelings about D20. Alternity dead? No, just thrown aside by its parent. Alternity fans are a very passionate bunch, and as such, the game system lives on, and will continue to do so until someone prys our beloved Alternity books from our cold, dead hands.
Unfortunately, the sci-fi community doesn't play these games in the numbers needed to support the product.
I don't understand it.
I suppose that begs the question, "Why is there such a loyal following?"
Thats simple enough, Alternity is one of the best systems WotC published, and frankly, its one of the best I've seen. I can see how power gamers are turned off by Alt as there aren't a whole lot of glitches for them to exploit, but the rest of us happen to enjoy the system cohesion.
And one more thing ... WotC cancelled Alt because they didn't want it to compete with their new D20 line. Pure economics, why put out a good game with a loyal following when you can put out a crap game with thousands of suppliments and turn over a bundle.
I suggest you take a moment to visit alternity.net, or http://tequilastarrise.net and see how wrong you are about Alt being dead.
Originally posted by Haggis Hagarsson
Alternity is Dead! Long live Gamma World!
The Alternity edition was somewhat darker and less whimsical from other editions. It being an Alternity setting, the ruleset was horrid.
Anyways, get GWD20! It's an excellent successor to the legacy of GW. And It's even playable!
I'm piling on and refuting this statement. Alternity is the best system I have ever played while the D20 rules have left me less than satisfied.
The way I see it Alternity is a cinematic RPG that gives a nod towards realism in its game mechanics. Even my superhero campaign feels more "real" with the Alternity rules.
D20 and its various incarnations are more like video games.
It's unfortunate that some people find Alternity unplayable. Perhaps they had a bad experience. I actually had one player who had tried it and didn't like it at first. He then played in my campaign and became a believer. Now he is running a Alternity campaign with new players of his own. Let the conversions begin!
Daryl B.
I have played every incarnation of Gamma World, from its humble beginnings with Metamorphosis Alpha to its brilliant and elegant cinematic portrayal of the post-apocalyptic genre as a setting for the Alternity Role Playing Game System. Never before has GW enjoyed such a superb and stunningly ingenious game mechanic, in spite of the abbreviated form included in the book.
Although Wizards of the Coast cannot be faulted for cancelling support for Alternity to protect their own interests, those players who continue to ignore the gross inconsistencies, faults and restrictive nature of the d20 system are helping to seal the fate of thousands of gamers everywhere. D20 is the viral communism of role playing games, the malevolent, vampiric exploitation of those who play them and the crushing, hopeless dread that is consuming the individuality and creativity of hard-working gamemasters everywhere.
In a world where ignorance has become chic and stupidity is celebrated, Wizards had no choice but to pull Alternity from the shelves and resort to force-feeding a brain-dead generation an endless parade of imagination in print. The message is clear: "You are incapable of creative thought, so we will do it for you." And charge you a premium price for it, of course.
Well, not this gamer. I've found my Nirvana, no-one is going to deprive me of it. Good day.
For all the intelligent games, sci-fi gamers and the sci-fi community, does not support the genre of games. Why that is, I don't know.
Alternity will come back in some form, promised to be supported, and the following month when sales dry up, it will be dropped again.
Despite the overall status of the RPG industry, the d20 market grows larger, with more outside publishers thinking of creative use for that ruleset.
But I've had hope that other publishers of other rules system would look at this as a threat to their survival, get off their ... um ... Sixes, and begin to think more like businessmen rather than a bunch of giggling game geeks who are set in their economic "comfort level." They have to aggressively pitch their products to distributors and retailers. They have to look hard as to why their game are not as exciting as it once was, and fix that as well, even if it means they have to use aggressive advertising.
A post from an attendee at the GAMA Trade Show wrote the experience there, which should have been a trade show to pitch retailers about their product, become more of a game convention where the retailers are only showing up to grab goodies and go home.
Wizards did a fine job at their Dinner seminar by pitching their presentation of their new products in a business-like manner (showing their research data), while other Dinner seminars are basically about answering current game questions and how to play current games, with a footnote of their new products coming out, as well as offering goodies like that Galactus figure.
RPG is no longer a niche marketing, especially not for the major RPG publishers. But if they're comfortable dropping far below the sales of TCG and CMG, then they're pretty much resigned to their fates.
d20 did all they can to save the RPG industry, but it's up to the others.
Sci-fi has always been a hard sell, in any medium. However, the blame cannot be laid solely on the shoulders of its small fan club. I never even knew Alternity existed until I happened apon it at a game shop. I suffered an endless parade of advertisements for D&D, Warhammer, Pokemon and other games, but not once did I hear about a new sci-fi game from Wizards. A great deal of effort wasted by a lack of promotion. Again, I'd like to emphasize that I do not blame Wizards or d20 for this. So they shot themselves in the foot with a very nice pistol, it happens. It's unfortunate, but it happens.
While I agree that "giggling game geeks" need to get serious if they intend to take their share of an incredibly difficult market, there are many serious gamers and designers who have been shut out by the d20 monster simply because they don't like the system. I seriously doubt any argument will convince me that d20 represents the ellusive "holy grail" of role playing. It is being touted as the system that can do it all, but that is foolishly optomistic at best and at worst, an unbelieveable lie. When exaggeration becomes a necessary tactic of promotion, it's time to re-think the product.
Alternity never claimed to be anything more than the best science fiction role playing system they (Wizard's A-team) could make. In that role, I believe they succeeded brilliantly. Don't take my word for it, search the internet for critiques on the game. Quotes like "smooth flowing", "realistic", "excellent" and "elegant" keep appearing. Until I read the "horrid" comment expressed here, the worst I'd heard was "merely competent".
In spite of this, I don't want Alternity to replace d20. I don't even want Wizards to bring it back into print. The creative fervour that revolves around it today is breathtaking, honest and full of individuality. One system to rule them all? No thanks.
my experience has been 10 years as a AD&D2nd Ed DM
8 years as a Rifts GM
ran a few games of Wraith, Palladium, Stormbringer 4th ed, Basic D&D red box!,
player in systems such as AD&D2nd ed, Rifts, dark conspiracy, twilight 2000, cyberpunk, vampire/wraith/mage/werewolf, Tales from the Floating Vagabond, traveller, Aliens rpg, Paranoia, Warhammer Fantasy, AD&D 1st Ed and others.
I got the Alternity free PDF booklets and thought the dice mechanic was very unique and flexible. I liked the idea.
The Game masters guide has some of the best advice any GM will ever need on running games and building campaigns - awesome guide. The D&D DM guide is pretty good too in comparison, but it has far too much useless info and I dont think any "fantasy" game needs that many tables/lists.
http://alternity.net/ - make it your new home, rent is cheap and the community is fun.
Alternity is Dead! Long live Gamma World!
Ok, Mr. Sheeps belly filled with all kinds of undescribable and inedible things, I see your point and would make this observation.......Jealousy breed contempt. I have never seen your moniker on any Alternity website so you have not really given the game a shot. All the above criticisms of you are accurate and should you decide to attack the beloved hobbies of fellow gamers on an open forum again I would suggest that a little decorum would be in order, you will note that none of the rebuttals has attacked your gaming system preferance. Irregardless of the fact I would not waste my money on a Gamma World Product, I would not deign to assault your love of that game.
Vladimir
Dragon supported it a while, and advertised it. A few months or a year later, it was dumped.
By my problem is this, "why doesn't this sell????"
The biggest reason games other than D&D doesn't attract players is advertising. But these games other than D20 Future will never advertise in print, video, or radio as the returns are so small.
The sci-fi community doesn't support these games long enough. After the initial push, it goes by the way side.
I'll second that about ad's for Alternity. In spite of being such an avid fan, I never once saw a single ad for it. Part of that could be my fault, for largely not subscribing to Dragon or Dungeon mag's, but I see product placement for D&D3e in a Kenmore wahser commercial (that was a hoot, let me tell you! very clever ad), T.V. commercials for D&D3e, Pokemon, etc. Whatever means of getting the word out about Alternity that was done clearly was nowhere near enough.
On the matter of attacking one's preference of gaming system, to attack a game system (and not provide evidence that you actually TRIED it) is the ultimate in immature and juvenile. It's like saying you hate this kind of food, when you've never had a single morsel pass your lips. Five-year-olds do that.
As to whether or not D20 is the gaming industry's saviour, I can't speak to that. I'm just a consumer, much like everyone else. I know what I'll shell out for, and what I won't. D20 simply didn't do it for me. (Ok, I have much more to extrapolate on that, but again, if you want to know whare I'm coming from, go do a search on A.net's forums for my posts on the matter. I would rather not repeat myself, thank you very much.)
In my own opinion, D20's a lot like Microsoft's Windows O/S, it's an attempt to monopolize an industry. Sure there is some plusses involved, frankly, I'd rather not. I'm perfectly content with the game systems I do play.
Originally posted by beavis123
By my problem is this, "why doesn't this sell????"
The biggest reason games other than D&D doesn't attract players is advertising. But these games other than D20 Future will never advertise in print, video, or radio as the returns are so small.
That's why they have to treat this like a business, IF they want to stay in business making RPG products. They gotta do whatever it takes to expose their product more. They gotta give profitable reason why distributors and retailers should order their products.
P.S. the SRD is more like Linux. d20 logo is more like the IBM logo (I hear they're promoting Linux).
I saw the Alternity site, very nice.
They need to advertise a site to also support the product.
The real problem is WoTC gets free advertising from Star Wars to support the Star Wars RPG.
Originally posted by TerroX
they advertise rpgs on the radio? man that really is going too far.
No. It was a T.V. ad. For a washer & dryer set, of all things...
Dreampod 9 of Heavy Gear fame is continuing to push its Silhouette rules system for all its current RPGs. Although it is also giving D20 stats alongside it in some products. I guess they are thinking like businessmen when they do that. Thatway their product is compatible with their core customers, along with outside groups who are learning the D20 rules (avg. Joe players).
I also read this in another post:
FJ in d20 Future should not be a supplement Thread
"I just found out that West End Games are bring out their classis d6 system and they are doing it by have standalone core books for each of the major genres: fantasy, modern and science fiction. This seems the right way to go and has now got me seriously thinking on where to take my roleplaying as I do enjoy the d20 System mechanics ."
On another note, I too am disappointed with TSR's support for it's Sci-fi games. Back when it first came out I agonized over what Sci-fi game I should buy. The 2 main contendors back then were Alternity and Aeon Trinity. Both of which had just came out. Both seemed pretty cool. AT already had an established game system in White Wolf's Storyteller, and it had a interesting setting with integrated psionic powers. But Alternity seemed more generic, which is a good thing cause it made it versatile. And I especially liked how everything was skill based. Instead of having a different table or mechanic for anything you wanted to do (Like AD&D 2ed at the time)
It was great..... and then it died. That I blame on the company. I don't know it WoTC bought out TSR by then or before. I can understand it if it was because Alternity caused all these changes that resulted in D20. I see it as an evolution. Good or bad is up to debate (of course). I would have preffered Alternity style skill base system. But I guess D&D needed to keep that heroic fantasy flavor, so that's why they introduced Feats and Prestige classes. I liked the skill roles in Alt, just got a bit confused with how to use the step modifiers and Ordinary to Amazing results when it came penetrating armor of a different quality. I'll have to go over both systems again to see which I like better now. (although I am more of a storyteller than a systems guy
)RE: DP9.
I checked out their Heavy Gear Third Edition Player's Handbookwith the OGL-based stats, but I find it to be unimpressive. So, you may be correct. By being half-"sixed" with OGL/SRD-based material, they care more about promoting SiliCORE (a successor to their old Silhouette System.
IMHO, I can't recommend that book to other d20 gamers. IMNSHO, you're paying a $40 book for $30 worth of material, whether you're a Silhouette or SiliCORE gamer.
HOWEVER, their Mecha Compendium (followed by Deluxe Mecha Compendium, which includes Guardians of Orders' Mecha d20 SRD) is about halfway decent.
RE: WEG D6.
I hope their marketing strategy (offering three time genre core rulebooks) will work. I'm not a fan of their old d6 System, but if they offer some improvements, then maybe I'll have a look-see.
Players from Alternity can visit a Gamma world planet, but players from Gamma World can't visit all of Alternity.
The current D20 system is much more flexible than Alternity ever was and allows for more varied games.
Alternity is fine for people who love to do lots of math but most people aren't like that.
P.S. I'm really good at math but it detracts from the game if every roll requires calculating to determine if you succeeded or not.
I agree with you.
I like the realism of the Alternity version of Gamma World regarding injury and hitpoints. But that requires much more time and effort for most of us. I think it just slows things down. It reminds me of assigning hitpoints to the various body parts. Very realistic, but time consuming and it does have other issues to deal with.
I was nearly as disappointed with Alternity as I am with D20 mutations, or lack thereof. I don't like anything to do with aliens regarding the fall of man. At all.
Personally, I don't really encourage defects for players. I usually permit a reroll or the sacrifice of one mutation. I feel that is enough of a penalty. In cases where there would be no mutations, I consider the person to be a latent mutant and able to mutate as others under certain circumstances. I view players as 'heros'. The best of the best, that is why they are chosen for quests. I don't really have a problem with defects for NPC characters and villians (just one more reason for them to be bitter). I do like the extensive lists of mutations in the first three versions of the game and others I have found in various places.
I like the realism and the balance of the Alternity system, but when we get together at the end of the week, we're just in the mood to unhinge a bit. Alternity is a sytem where you need to think to survive, and our sessions tend to get loopy and slap-happy pretty fast. I lose my gamers unless it's been an unusually good week.
For Dark*Matter, Alternity is awesome. For good solid SF, I can't think of anything better. But for dangerous, watch-every-step-or-you're-slagged Gamma World, it's just way too much effort.
For those of you who think Alternity is the gaming system: I agree.
For those of you who think d20 Gamma World is better than the Alternity version . . . well, it's more playable anyway. It's kind of hack-and-slash with guns. More fun, but less satisfying.
Question is: what do you want out of your session?
(Though I feel a need to confess -- I haven't played either of the modern incarnations of Gamma World. The last time I played it was about 16 years ago. Out of nostalgia, I've taken a good look at the new books, but so far I haven't found any takers for a game. Too many going on already.)