Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 17, 2004 23:11:43	I have always been under the impression that resurrection as a basic priestly spell really undermines one of the basic principles of Darksun: Life is cheap. Resurrection has always made me cringe and think "Respawn in town". Does anyone know of a way to fit this in or is it better left out and the dead stay dead short of a wish spell. Secondly, a point that is only touched on for one sentance in the campaign setting. What about templars and summoning demons/celestials. It would seem that the sorceror kings know of the powers, at least dregoth does, and would not want their followers interacting with beings that would threaten their power. On the other hand, gods have no power on Athas, and its seclusion makes it unsuitable for the blood war. That, and celestials on athas just doesn't seem right. Tanar'ris though, add much to a campaign. Vrocks are in the form of a carrion bird, ready to despoil what is left of the barren wastelands:D In short, can templars summon outsiders that aren't elementals?
#2 Kamelion Mar 18, 2004 3:00:02	In Dark Sun 2e, as you may recall, only druids (or priests of level 21+) could cast raise dead or resurrection as these spells were part of major Cosmos. You could simply remove these spells from the 3e cleric list for DS clerics and limit the number of high-level druids in the game, for example. Iirc, in the old setting there were only one or two druids in the whole of the Tablelands powerful enough to cast resurrection. And who's to say these guys are gonna help you, even if you can find them? If you don't want to fiddle with the 3e lists, take the same approach to high level clerics. How many are there? With an absence of any organized religion you already have enough rationale to strip the numbers back a fair bit. It might well be possible that none of these high level clerics inhabit cities. Why would they? They aren't required to be evangelists for their elements, after all. Beyond this, consider allegiance. Right before it gets into costs, the DMG reminds us that an NPC spellcaster must be "amenable" to helping a PC out by selling them a spell or casting thereof. For the DM, that's a big window of opportunity to restrict resurrection even further. Maybe you might want to follow the old 2e idea that the elements are at war to one degree or another. Such allegiances and loyalties should come into play when dealing with clerics of high level. These are the paragons of their faith after all and would require similarly high standards from those they meet. (In a homebrew I ran a few years back the god of healing would only grant resurrection/raise spells for those PCs who agreed to convert to his religion and join his church.. and pay through the nose). Just some musings As for the templars summoning stuff, according to their 3e spell list in the latest DS3 rules, they can't summon anything. Not a sausage. Ho hum ;).
#3 jaanos Mar 18, 2004 3:05:30	Cool thread. BTW, hi everyone, been snowed under at work, glad to be back! Onto the question posed. As a DM, i make resurection a hard spell to cast. Invovling blessing from all the 4 elemental clerics, and a powerful magic caster. If the players don't get the right 'ingrediants' for the spell, the player comes back with some form of phobia, a slightly different alighnment, memory gaps etc - all of which i allow to heal in time. The way i see it, to rip a soul back out of the grey, and re-form them requires the blessing and help of the beings that created athas, the elementals. Now, if one element doesn't give it's blessing, the person comes back... slightly incomplete. Anyway, that's my take on resurection.... templars doing it... should be a horrible ritual, maybe requiring the sacrifice of one life to bring back another (ie an evil ritual) As for outsiders.... i think celestials COULD be summoned, but should be subject to the same percentages as required to break the grey. ie, you can summon them, but most of the time, they never appear. Also, knowledge of such beings would be EXTREMLEY limited, so i'd make it a role-play device as such: To summon a celestial: Caster must know the type of celestial (knowledge) Must cast the spell Must break the grey barrier Must convince the celestial not to rips thier head off As for demons etc... well... there is canon supporting thier existance so... they can exist INHMO in darksun... i'd just see them as very disinterested in athas, with the exception of the faction Dregoth recruited. my o.02c
#4 Kamelion Mar 18, 2004 3:32:58	That's a nifty take on resurrection - it's got adventure seeds written all over it - nice one . Yeah, they could be summoned in 2e - I wasn't sure if DisruptorX was talking about that or the new rules so I just went with the latter. To make them especially rare, you could rule that summon monster won't summon outer planar creatures but the planar ally / planar binding spells will, thus stripping down the available options. Cool ideas...
#5 jaanos Mar 18, 2004 3:36:04	Thanks Kamelion, the high-level druids slots in with those ideas: They can do it because they have a link with all four... but a probably unlikely to do it. Clerics can't do it themselves... but will assist, most of the time....
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 18, 2004 8:20:52	Originally posted by Kamelion Yeah, they could be summoned in 2e As a matter of fact, in the adventure Dragon's Crown when the PCs are in Urik one of the plot hooks is that there is something that is eating people that lives in the sewers. It turns out that one of Hamanu's defilers had summoned a tannari and it had gotten loose. I too would make it so that they could only be brought to Athas by planar ally spells.