Gestalt Characters and Dragonlance - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Gestalt Characters and Dragonlance

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
calabozo
Mar 18, 2004 11:49:21 What do you guys think of this variant? do you think it could fit in a DL campaign? and if Cristoper Coyle read this, could it fit in Key of destiny?

Thanks for your coments.
#2
cam_banks
Mar 18, 2004 12:04:42 You could use gestalt characters from Unearthed Arcana in a Dragonlance campaign, but there are two potential problems.

The first is that some class combinations aren't very beneficial or even possible given the state of spellcasters in Dragonlance (no sorcerer/wizard gestalts, for example). You'd end up with a lot of fighter/rogue gestalts, etc.

The second is that published adventures such as Key of Destiny are designed for standard characters (the "iconic four", in fact) and so supercharged gestalt characters would have a much easier time of it. Use the suggested changes to challenge ratings and so forth outlined in Unearthed Arcana if you plan on using gestalt characters.

Ultimately, it's your decision and your campaign. I would personally stick with standard characters - I can't see enough benefit from the merger of two classes in one to make it worth the hassle of justifying them and then re-tooling encounter levels to suit.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
brimstone
Mar 18, 2004 12:08:50 The only Gestalts I'm aware of are in Transformers: Generation One...and the term in that world doesn't really mesh with anything possible in Dragonlance.

So my question is...what exactly is a "gestalt" that we're talking about here?
#4
daedavias_dup
Mar 18, 2004 12:14:42
Originally posted by Brimstone
The only Gestalts I'm aware of are in Transformers: Generation One...and the term in that world doesn't really mesh with anything possible in Dragonlance.

So my question is...what exactly is a "gestalt" that we're talking about here?

...and I thought I was the only Transformers fan on these boards...

Gestalt characters combine the features of two classes, such as monk/clerics, fighter/rogues, druid/rangers, etc. I would need to go look at the book in order to completely describe them.
#5
brimstone
Mar 18, 2004 12:31:49
Originally posted by Daedavias
...and I thought I was the only Transformers fan on these boards...

I've recently been re-inindated (is that the right word?) into Transformers. I blame the Dragonlance comic and my inability to go into a comic book store and not blow my whole wad on stuff I find in there. Of course I'd already picked up alot of the reissued Toys R Us reissues...

Anyway...I now have every back issue of the new TF:G1 series and getting the new one every month. I also picked up all the More than Meets the Eye guide books for Generation One and will be getting the Armada ones...just cause I'm curious about that story. And of course I picked up all the TF: War Within stuff too...and most of the Trade Paperbacks of the original comics. Yeah...I'm such a sucker. It's that damn completist mentality that makes me spend all my money on Dragonlance, too.

Originally posted by Daedavias
Gestalt characters combine the features of two classes, such as monk/clerics, fighter/rogues, druid/rangers, etc. I would need to go look at the book in order to completely describe them.

That makes sense...since "Gestalts" in Transformers are the combiners, too (Predaking, Bruticus, Menasor, Defensor, Superion, Devestator, Computron, Abominus, and Piranacon...did I forget anybody?)

Thanks for the info! (sorry if I went a little off topic)
#6
Illithidbix
Mar 18, 2004 12:34:18 Basically mixing two classes and taking the strongest aspect in each advancement from (e.g Bab, HD, Skill points) both, and then gaining the class abilities of both as well…
(e.g a Fighter/Wizard Gestalt would have Fighter BaB, D10 HP, 2+ skill points (class skills from both lists), and then the bonus feats and spellcasting of both classes)

Really it seems to be for games with a low number of players (and hence allowing multiple party roles to be fulfilled), or perhaps something simply to distract all the munckins with and get them away from the rest of the game. Although I expect someone could design a cool character concept around one, it’s just I haven’t actually seen anyone attempt to do this yet.

As for being in DL? Well In my opinion Krynn seems to be a setting based around a relatively low power setting (this is very debateable, as discussions about Epic DL has shown), and seems to produce “focused” characters, as Cam mentioned it really wouldn’t fit with the imagery of spellcasters in DL at all. I would personally say the would seem very out of place in my conception of the world… however I generally dislike them anyway.
I wouldn’t mind boosting characters abilities and flexibility (more skillpoints etc), however I think that Gesalts go too far and seem to result in lots of unbelievable character concepts. They also seem to require a rather large effort to balance encounters and stuff.
#7
brimstone
Mar 18, 2004 12:38:15
Originally posted by Illithidbix
Basically mixing two classes and taking the strongest aspect in each advancement from (e.g Bab, HD, Skill points) both, and then gaining the class abilities of both as well…
(e.g a Fighter/Wizard Gestalt would have Fighter BaB, D10 HP, 2+ skill points (class skills from both lists), and then the bonus feats and spellcasting of both classes)

Thanks!

Yeah...generally, I think I agree with you.

I think I would prefer allowing my gamers to have multiple PCs before I went this route (although this route would definately be easier to role-play). Plus, the characters would definately have to be limited to that specific campaign, I think.
#8
daedavias_dup
Mar 18, 2004 12:42:01
Originally posted by Brimstone
That makes sense...since "Gestalts" in Transformers are the combiners, too (Predaking, Bruticus, Menasor, Defensor, Superion, Devestator, Computron, Abominus, and Piranacon...did I forget anybody?)

Well, you got most of the American released ones, except Monstructor, but he was a Pretender Gestalt. As for Japanese ones...there was Battle Gaia, God Neptune, Liokaiser, Road Caesar, Sixtrain, Sixwing, Sixturbo, Sixbuilder, Landcross, Dinoking, and probably some others I can't remember off the top of my head. Also, the Beast Wars toyline had two combiners (Magnaboss and Tripredicus), Robots in Disguise had two new combiners (Rail Racer and Landfill), but that is about it for true gestalts, as I don't count the Armada or Energon combiners as gestalts.

Back on topic...

I am not a huge fan of the gestalt characters, as they seem to be a little too powerful. A fighter/rogue combo will be extremely effective at killing off wizards or sorceror, as evasion combined with a large attack bonus will be devestating to a wizard or sorceror using spells with reflex saves.
#9
cam_banks
Mar 18, 2004 12:50:16 The word gestalt is used to describe something which, as a single unit, cannot be easily described simply by breaking it down into its composite parts. You've heard the "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" phrase - that's a gestalt reference.

Thus, it's used to describe characters with two classes which, when combined, create a more powerful character, as well as in such things as anime and manga to describe multiple vehicles combining into one giant robot, or multiple individuals who merge together to create a singular character.

I won't go into gestalt psychology here lest I bore any of you, and it's been 10 years since I got my degree so I'm rusty.

Cheers,
Cam
#10
brimstone
Mar 18, 2004 13:01:22
Originally posted by Daedavias
Well, you got most of the American released ones, except Monstructor, but he was a Pretender Gestalt.

Oops, yep...forgot about that one....I usually do as I never had any of the Pretenders as a kid, I was done with them after the Headmasters (although I think my brother had som Monster Pretenders)...but he's included in Generation One, so I have to get used to him now. LOL! (but the others were beyond Gen One, which officially ended with Micro- and Actionmasters)

Uh...unfortunately, I think I've already said all I can on gestalts in Dragonlance. Crap...

I guess that makes this post officially off topic. Sorry about that.

Daedavias, I'd be more than happy to contiue this discussion in private, if you like.

Oh...and just saw Cam's post...thanks for the info. That sounds familiar now that you mention it. I new I'd heard the term gestalt somewhere before I read it in that comic. Must have been an old humanities class maybe?
#11
zombiegleemax
Mar 19, 2004 21:21:10 I think 2 characters would be better, too. If Alignment restrictions were followed, you would have very few, or the ones you do have, the same as any of the others, barbarians, bards...All clerics would be limited in alignment more.

If you want to have a KoS and a Bard, their alignments don't mix.

If you can't handle 2 separate characters, you shouldn't be allowed to play a "2-in-1."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 calabozo Mar 18, 2004 11:49:21	What do you guys think of this variant? do you think it could fit in a DL campaign? and if Cristoper Coyle read this, could it fit in Key of destiny? Thanks for your coments.
#2 cam_banks Mar 18, 2004 12:04:42	You could use gestalt characters from Unearthed Arcana in a Dragonlance campaign, but there are two potential problems. The first is that some class combinations aren't very beneficial or even possible given the state of spellcasters in Dragonlance (no sorcerer/wizard gestalts, for example). You'd end up with a lot of fighter/rogue gestalts, etc. The second is that published adventures such as Key of Destiny are designed for standard characters (the "iconic four", in fact) and so supercharged gestalt characters would have a much easier time of it. Use the suggested changes to challenge ratings and so forth outlined in Unearthed Arcana if you plan on using gestalt characters. Ultimately, it's your decision and your campaign. I would personally stick with standard characters - I can't see enough benefit from the merger of two classes in one to make it worth the hassle of justifying them and then re-tooling encounter levels to suit. Cheers, Cam
#3 brimstone Mar 18, 2004 12:08:50	The only Gestalts I'm aware of are in Transformers: Generation One...and the term in that world doesn't really mesh with anything possible in Dragonlance. So my question is...what exactly is a "gestalt" that we're talking about here?
#4 daedavias_dup Mar 18, 2004 12:14:42	Originally posted by Brimstone The only Gestalts I'm aware of are in Transformers: Generation One...and the term in that world doesn't really mesh with anything possible in Dragonlance. So my question is...what exactly is a "gestalt" that we're talking about here? ...and I thought I was the only Transformers fan on these boards... Gestalt characters combine the features of two classes, such as monk/clerics, fighter/rogues, druid/rangers, etc. I would need to go look at the book in order to completely describe them.
#5 brimstone Mar 18, 2004 12:31:49	Originally posted by Daedavias ...and I thought I was the only Transformers fan on these boards... I've recently been re-inindated (is that the right word?) into Transformers. I blame the Dragonlance comic and my inability to go into a comic book store and not blow my whole wad on stuff I find in there. Of course I'd already picked up alot of the reissued Toys R Us reissues... Anyway...I now have every back issue of the new TF:G1 series and getting the new one every month. I also picked up all the More than Meets the Eye guide books for Generation One and will be getting the Armada ones...just cause I'm curious about that story. And of course I picked up all the TF: War Within stuff too...and most of the Trade Paperbacks of the original comics. Yeah...I'm such a sucker. It's that damn completist mentality that makes me spend all my money on Dragonlance, too. Originally posted by Daedavias Gestalt characters combine the features of two classes, such as monk/clerics, fighter/rogues, druid/rangers, etc. I would need to go look at the book in order to completely describe them. That makes sense...since "Gestalts" in Transformers are the combiners, too (Predaking, Bruticus, Menasor, Defensor, Superion, Devestator, Computron, Abominus, and Piranacon...did I forget anybody?) Thanks for the info! (sorry if I went a little off topic)
#6 Illithidbix Mar 18, 2004 12:34:18	Basically mixing two classes and taking the strongest aspect in each advancement from (e.g Bab, HD, Skill points) both, and then gaining the class abilities of both as well… (e.g a Fighter/Wizard Gestalt would have Fighter BaB, D10 HP, 2+ skill points (class skills from both lists), and then the bonus feats and spellcasting of both classes) Really it seems to be for games with a low number of players (and hence allowing multiple party roles to be fulfilled), or perhaps something simply to distract all the munckins with and get them away from the rest of the game. Although I expect someone could design a cool character concept around one, it’s just I haven’t actually seen anyone attempt to do this yet. As for being in DL? Well In my opinion Krynn seems to be a setting based around a relatively low power setting (this is very debateable, as discussions about Epic DL has shown), and seems to produce “focused” characters, as Cam mentioned it really wouldn’t fit with the imagery of spellcasters in DL at all. I would personally say the would seem very out of place in my conception of the world… however I generally dislike them anyway. I wouldn’t mind boosting characters abilities and flexibility (more skillpoints etc), however I think that Gesalts go too far and seem to result in lots of unbelievable character concepts. They also seem to require a rather large effort to balance encounters and stuff.
#7 brimstone Mar 18, 2004 12:38:15	Originally posted by Illithidbix Basically mixing two classes and taking the strongest aspect in each advancement from (e.g Bab, HD, Skill points) both, and then gaining the class abilities of both as well… (e.g a Fighter/Wizard Gestalt would have Fighter BaB, D10 HP, 2+ skill points (class skills from both lists), and then the bonus feats and spellcasting of both classes) Thanks! Yeah...generally, I think I agree with you. I think I would prefer allowing my gamers to have multiple PCs before I went this route (although this route would definately be easier to role-play). Plus, the characters would definately have to be limited to that specific campaign, I think.
#8 daedavias_dup Mar 18, 2004 12:42:01	Originally posted by Brimstone That makes sense...since "Gestalts" in Transformers are the combiners, too (Predaking, Bruticus, Menasor, Defensor, Superion, Devestator, Computron, Abominus, and Piranacon...did I forget anybody?) Well, you got most of the American released ones, except Monstructor, but he was a Pretender Gestalt. As for Japanese ones...there was Battle Gaia, God Neptune, Liokaiser, Road Caesar, Sixtrain, Sixwing, Sixturbo, Sixbuilder, Landcross, Dinoking, and probably some others I can't remember off the top of my head. Also, the Beast Wars toyline had two combiners (Magnaboss and Tripredicus), Robots in Disguise had two new combiners (Rail Racer and Landfill), but that is about it for true gestalts, as I don't count the Armada or Energon combiners as gestalts. Back on topic... I am not a huge fan of the gestalt characters, as they seem to be a little too powerful. A fighter/rogue combo will be extremely effective at killing off wizards or sorceror, as evasion combined with a large attack bonus will be devestating to a wizard or sorceror using spells with reflex saves.
#9 cam_banks Mar 18, 2004 12:50:16	The word gestalt is used to describe something which, as a single unit, cannot be easily described simply by breaking it down into its composite parts. You've heard the "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" phrase - that's a gestalt reference. Thus, it's used to describe characters with two classes which, when combined, create a more powerful character, as well as in such things as anime and manga to describe multiple vehicles combining into one giant robot, or multiple individuals who merge together to create a singular character. I won't go into gestalt psychology here lest I bore any of you, and it's been 10 years since I got my degree so I'm rusty. Cheers, Cam
#10 brimstone Mar 18, 2004 13:01:22	Originally posted by Daedavias Well, you got most of the American released ones, except Monstructor, but he was a Pretender Gestalt. Oops, yep...forgot about that one....I usually do as I never had any of the Pretenders as a kid, I was done with them after the Headmasters (although I think my brother had som Monster Pretenders)...but he's included in Generation One, so I have to get used to him now. LOL! (but the others were beyond Gen One, which officially ended with Micro- and Actionmasters) Uh...unfortunately, I think I've already said all I can on gestalts in Dragonlance. Crap... I guess that makes this post officially off topic. Sorry about that. Daedavias, I'd be more than happy to contiue this discussion in private, if you like. Oh...and just saw Cam's post...thanks for the info. That sounds familiar now that you mention it. I new I'd heard the term gestalt somewhere before I read it in that comic. Must have been an old humanities class maybe?
#11 zombiegleemax Mar 19, 2004 21:21:10	I think 2 characters would be better, too. If Alignment restrictions were followed, you would have very few, or the ones you do have, the same as any of the others, barbarians, bards...All clerics would be limited in alignment more. If you want to have a KoS and a Bard, their alignments don't mix. If you can't handle 2 separate characters, you shouldn't be allowed to play a "2-in-1."