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Suel Binders

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rumblebelly
Mar 20, 2004 1:44:00 Has anyone here ever run a campaign using these items? Are they supposed to be the same or distinct from dragon orbs? Any ideas for what kind of magic items would contain the evil elemental princes?

Thanks, I look forward to hearing your ideas.
#2
mortellan
Mar 20, 2004 3:16:36 I have always wondered the same thing. Making them similar to dragon orbs seems likely but also redundant when you consider all the magic 'sphere' things floating out there. IMC I used a lesser binder that was indeed an orb, but this one was in the form of an ear ring. It made the binder less obtrusive. Normally people see a crystal ball sized thing and know right away what to expect, it takes the mystery out of it.
#3
rumblebelly
Mar 20, 2004 17:56:55
Originally posted by mortellan
I have always wondered the same thing. Making them similar to dragon orbs seems likely but also redundant when you consider all the magic 'sphere' things floating out there. IMC I used a lesser binder that was indeed an orb, but this one was in the form of an ear ring. It made the binder less obtrusive. Normally people see a crystal ball sized thing and know right away what to expect, it takes the mystery out of it.

In my campaign, the Olhydra Binder was a simple aquamarine gem that had been part of a larger artifact (in retrospect I think making it a part of the Chalice Everlasting detailed in Dragon #294 is a nice choice) in the past, but had since become dislodged from it and had the simple appearance of a much less powerful magical item (like a iouin stone). The PC who possessed it carried it around for a long time before he figured out what it was, mostly because of negative traits he was developing (a horrible aversion to fire, for example, or water elementals and weirds attacking him randomly).

Anyway, I compared the timelines for the Dragon Orbs and the Binders and it seems the Binders are of from a much earlier period in the Suel Imperium.

My most recent conjecture though is this: is it possible that the Ehteresra Greater Binder is actually the prison of one of Tharizdun's avatars and hence the connection of Tharizdun to the Greater Elemental Eye in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil?
#4
mortellan
Mar 20, 2004 18:54:36 After reading your reply, I suddenly realize that I'm under informed about these Binders. What is canon about them and what is conjecture?
#5
rumblebelly
Mar 20, 2004 19:47:52 Officially, I don't think anything is canon about them. To the best of my knowledge, they appeared in Steve Wilson's history and timeline of the Flanaess in Oerth Journal 1. I liked the detail involved in the history so much (especially at a time when it seemed like "canon" products would never be forthcoming) that I adopted it as the official history of my GH campaign, forevermore. But I do believe that I remember seeing the Dragon Orbs somewhere (I don't recall where) in a more canonical source, so I thought they might be the same thing, but when I checked the two timelines against each other, I realized they weren't.

I sometimes confuse myself because I use the OJ timeline so much that it HAS become canon to me, and it certainly is within the context of my group.

So, anyway, the Binders bind 8 elemental princes (Olhydra (water), Imix (fire), Za Ooze (ooze, or as I like to think of it: mud), Yan-C-Bin (Air), Ogremach (Earth), Cryonax (Ice), T'Magmus (Magma) and Whisp (Smoke) and a grand puba elemental lord named Etheresra, who apparently has access to all the elemental spheres and commands all these lords of evil. So I thought it might be possible to make the Tharizdun connection with the Greater Elemental Eye (which I believe is canon according to the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil--I don't own that adventure, though I want to) and the Great Binder.

IMC, the followers of Tharizdun are trying to gather together all the Binders (which are gemstones) so that they can create an artifact called the Elemental Crown which will rest on the head of the Avatar of Tharizdun when he returns to Oerth, or so they think. And, of course, the activities of this evil cult are based in the Temple of Elemental Evil, the structure they erected many years ago from which to carry their plans to fruitition.
#6
nellisir
Mar 20, 2004 22:50:24 Dragon orbs were detailed in Dragon magazine in an article by Roger Moore. Don't have the issue # handy, sorry.

Nell.
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 22, 2004 11:52:07 I was always under the impression that the binders were used to bind powerful genies. That is one of the reasons that the Baklanish, who were adepts at elemental and genie magic, got so mad at the Suel. I could be wrong though.
#8
Mortepierre
Mar 22, 2004 12:01:39 I believe the issue you're searching for is issue #230. I loved that article by the way!
#9
mortellan
Mar 22, 2004 12:34:14
I was always under the impression that the binders were used to bind powerful genies. That is one of the reasons that the Baklanish, who were adepts at elemental and genie magic, got so mad at the Suel. I could be wrong though

In that Oerth Journal article I beleive it said 'Genie Binders' too. I don't mind the thought of the Elemental Princes though, it wouldn't change the motives or outcomes any.
#10
rumblebelly
Mar 22, 2004 15:29:44
Originally posted by mortellan
In that Oerth Journal article I beleive it said 'Genie Binders' too. I don't mind the thought of the Elemental Princes though, it wouldn't change the motives or outcomes any.

Yes, you are correct, I just went back and looked at the original OJ 1 article, which states that the Genie King Ali Ben Yala was imprisoned in the Great Binder and the genie princes of the North were forced to swear obedience as long as he remained imprisioned.

However, in a later OJ 11 article, "A History and Timeline of the Suloise," Len Lakofka and Steve Wilson revised the history to say that the Elemental Princes I already mentioned were imprisoned.

My suggestion: Ali Ben Yala was the Baklunish name for Etheresra. The Elemental Lords and Genie Princes are one and the same, able to assume whichever form they feel will strike the most fear and awe in the humans they happen to be conversing with.

Or, the claim that Genie princes were imprisoned could be Baklunish propaganda to further the war against the Suloise.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rumblebelly Mar 20, 2004 1:44:00	Has anyone here ever run a campaign using these items? Are they supposed to be the same or distinct from dragon orbs? Any ideas for what kind of magic items would contain the evil elemental princes? Thanks, I look forward to hearing your ideas.
#2 mortellan Mar 20, 2004 3:16:36	I have always wondered the same thing. Making them similar to dragon orbs seems likely but also redundant when you consider all the magic 'sphere' things floating out there. IMC I used a lesser binder that was indeed an orb, but this one was in the form of an ear ring. It made the binder less obtrusive. Normally people see a crystal ball sized thing and know right away what to expect, it takes the mystery out of it.
#3 rumblebelly Mar 20, 2004 17:56:55	Originally posted by mortellan I have always wondered the same thing. Making them similar to dragon orbs seems likely but also redundant when you consider all the magic 'sphere' things floating out there. IMC I used a lesser binder that was indeed an orb, but this one was in the form of an ear ring. It made the binder less obtrusive. Normally people see a crystal ball sized thing and know right away what to expect, it takes the mystery out of it. In my campaign, the Olhydra Binder was a simple aquamarine gem that had been part of a larger artifact (in retrospect I think making it a part of the Chalice Everlasting detailed in Dragon #294 is a nice choice) in the past, but had since become dislodged from it and had the simple appearance of a much less powerful magical item (like a iouin stone). The PC who possessed it carried it around for a long time before he figured out what it was, mostly because of negative traits he was developing (a horrible aversion to fire, for example, or water elementals and weirds attacking him randomly). Anyway, I compared the timelines for the Dragon Orbs and the Binders and it seems the Binders are of from a much earlier period in the Suel Imperium. My most recent conjecture though is this: is it possible that the Ehteresra Greater Binder is actually the prison of one of Tharizdun's avatars and hence the connection of Tharizdun to the Greater Elemental Eye in the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil?
#4 mortellan Mar 20, 2004 18:54:36	After reading your reply, I suddenly realize that I'm under informed about these Binders. What is canon about them and what is conjecture?
#5 rumblebelly Mar 20, 2004 19:47:52	Officially, I don't think anything is canon about them. To the best of my knowledge, they appeared in Steve Wilson's history and timeline of the Flanaess in Oerth Journal 1. I liked the detail involved in the history so much (especially at a time when it seemed like "canon" products would never be forthcoming) that I adopted it as the official history of my GH campaign, forevermore. But I do believe that I remember seeing the Dragon Orbs somewhere (I don't recall where) in a more canonical source, so I thought they might be the same thing, but when I checked the two timelines against each other, I realized they weren't. I sometimes confuse myself because I use the OJ timeline so much that it HAS become canon to me, and it certainly is within the context of my group. So, anyway, the Binders bind 8 elemental princes (Olhydra (water), Imix (fire), Za Ooze (ooze, or as I like to think of it: mud), Yan-C-Bin (Air), Ogremach (Earth), Cryonax (Ice), T'Magmus (Magma) and Whisp (Smoke) and a grand puba elemental lord named Etheresra, who apparently has access to all the elemental spheres and commands all these lords of evil. So I thought it might be possible to make the Tharizdun connection with the Greater Elemental Eye (which I believe is canon according to the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil--I don't own that adventure, though I want to) and the Great Binder. IMC, the followers of Tharizdun are trying to gather together all the Binders (which are gemstones) so that they can create an artifact called the Elemental Crown which will rest on the head of the Avatar of Tharizdun when he returns to Oerth, or so they think. And, of course, the activities of this evil cult are based in the Temple of Elemental Evil, the structure they erected many years ago from which to carry their plans to fruitition.
#6 nellisir Mar 20, 2004 22:50:24	Dragon orbs were detailed in Dragon magazine in an article by Roger Moore. Don't have the issue # handy, sorry. Nell.
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 22, 2004 11:52:07	I was always under the impression that the binders were used to bind powerful genies. That is one of the reasons that the Baklanish, who were adepts at elemental and genie magic, got so mad at the Suel. I could be wrong though.
#8 Mortepierre Mar 22, 2004 12:01:39	I believe the issue you're searching for is issue #230. I loved that article by the way!
#9 mortellan Mar 22, 2004 12:34:14	I was always under the impression that the binders were used to bind powerful genies. That is one of the reasons that the Baklanish, who were adepts at elemental and genie magic, got so mad at the Suel. I could be wrong though In that Oerth Journal article I beleive it said 'Genie Binders' too. I don't mind the thought of the Elemental Princes though, it wouldn't change the motives or outcomes any.
#10 rumblebelly Mar 22, 2004 15:29:44	Originally posted by mortellan In that Oerth Journal article I beleive it said 'Genie Binders' too. I don't mind the thought of the Elemental Princes though, it wouldn't change the motives or outcomes any. Yes, you are correct, I just went back and looked at the original OJ 1 article, which states that the Genie King Ali Ben Yala was imprisoned in the Great Binder and the genie princes of the North were forced to swear obedience as long as he remained imprisioned. However, in a later OJ 11 article, "A History and Timeline of the Suloise," Len Lakofka and Steve Wilson revised the history to say that the Elemental Princes I already mentioned were imprisoned. My suggestion: Ali Ben Yala was the Baklunish name for Etheresra. The Elemental Lords and Genie Princes are one and the same, able to assume whichever form they feel will strike the most fear and awe in the humans they happen to be conversing with. Or, the claim that Genie princes were imprisoned could be Baklunish propaganda to further the war against the Suloise.