Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 24, 2004 5:39:23	I hope wizards of the coast and people at Sovereign press read this. What in gods hell! is going on here, why are there so much mixing going on, Half-gres i can understand. ok half elf-as well, or in some other campagins half-ocrs...BUT ! why is now days everithyng a mix, and designers think it is cool....ITS NOOT, i see half kenders ll over the place, half ogre-half kender-half bakali..what not, and its just plain stupid, what is that, a new groove in the designer team, please stop that, like mixing stupid races was not enough, lately i see more of this, half-dragon ogre, wear-boar, vampire!!!! whaaaaatt!!1 aghh makes me wana just rool over and die, throw a death throw and explode, killing every designer who ever got a idea to write that stuff. And lately am seeing all that mixing in dragonlance as well. Stop it please, its just so unnatural that so many races can mix, and there is no way a human woman and lets say rat man can mix, lets just say there fisiologie is not compatible, otherwise nothing is sacred, everithing is just plain mix. Sure i know designers will do what they want, but am begging you, dont do all that in dragonalce, i would hate to see a half-minotaur dragonspawn leach knight of the thorn...god no just nooooo. .. If not for me than for the idea that dragonlance is somewhat based on realisam, romance, adventure, friendship, and so much more ... Thank you for having the time to read my thoughts (my english is abit bad, so sorry about that):sad: :sad:
#2 cam_banks Mar 24, 2004 5:43:55	Relax, Mr Deicide. There's no sudden proflagation of half-breed races in Dragonlance. Although now I'm tempted to write up those half-ratmen. I've always liked ratmen, ever since I played my skaven army in Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Might be a little hard to include them in Dragonlance, though. Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Mar 24, 2004 5:50:55	yeah rat man are cool, but just that rat men, no half-rat men..ah any ways Cheers Cam!
#4 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 24, 2004 7:43:45	Official Half-Races of Ansalon: Half-elf, half-kender, half-ogre. Half-dragons don't exist in Krynn. The same goes for half-celestials and half-fiends (AFAIK). So three half-races is too much for you?
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 24, 2004 7:46:42	I'm not sure where the anger is coming from, but as far as my foggy brain can remember, the only "half-breed" races we introduced outside of the d20 core material are the half-ogre (DLCS) and half-kender. Both are derived from Dragonlance fiction, with memorable characters around to support them. War of the Twins introduced Steeltoe the half-ogre, and Brothers in Arms had Scrounger the half-kender. Dragonlance and Star Trek are both settings that seem to allow lots of cross-breeding, but in the case of Krynn I think it's because the original central character (Tanis) was a half-breed. When we worked on the Sovereign Stone setting, there was a deliberate decision that most of the mortal races could not interbreed with each other. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#6 iltharanos Mar 24, 2004 10:03:01	Per the Dragonlance DM Screen, half-fiends and half-celestials exist in Dragonlance. Half-ogres (one version) appeared in the Savage Species book. Which means only half-kender have been introduced into the mix by the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. One new half-breed race isn't quite flooding the market. ;)
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 24, 2004 10:20:25	ok i see your point about some words i use, like stupid and such, well you are right, i wont do that anymore. ill try to express my disaproval of things in a diferent way, so my appologies on my past posts. cheers.
#8 valharic Mar 24, 2004 11:25:35	A simple solution for your issue. Don't include the half-breeds you don't like into your game. If it's in published material you want to use, then adjust it to suit your needs. I've never understood players apprehention and dislike for things and the need belittle it. The people that work on these materials work very hard on what they do and to just come out and trash it is not constructive. (Insert brown nose here ;) ) If you don't like something that's fine. Just don't use it, or suggest changes or modifications. Be more proactive rather than negative about it. Here's my point, I guess. I think the biggest part about playing RPG's is making the world your own and telling YOUR story. You don't need to use what's published in the books as verbatim. For example, I'm an old DL gamer and starting a new campaign during the WotL. I'm shaping the world to fit what I want and like, and essentially after the events of the Legends trilogy the world of Krynn is my own. Anything that happened after the DoSF won't be happening in my world. There are many elements and concepts from the WoS and DoSF that I will use but What Tahkisis did does not suit my needs. Anyhoo, that's my 3 cents worth. Take it for what you will.
#9 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 24, 2004 11:55:51	Originally posted by iltharanos Per the Dragonlance DM Screen, half-fiends and half-celestials exist in Dragonlance. But they're really really really really really rare.
#10 cam_banks Mar 24, 2004 14:31:58	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer But they're really really really really really rare. So rare in fact that each and every one should be a specially designed individual with a reason for being there. But then I'd expect this for most higher-powered creatures or NPCs in a Dragonlance campaign. Cheers, Cam
#11 baron_the_curse Mar 25, 2004 1:43:02	Originally posted by Cam Banks I've always liked ratmen, ever since I played my skaven army in Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Might be a little hard to include them in Dragonlance, though. Cam "Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Ratmen!!" Excellent sourcebook. The Slitheren are not lycanthrope so they are a perfect race for Dragonlance if you can work out a background for them. I would suggest naturally an alliance to Morgion.
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2004 2:37:09	Would these be decent templates to use when designing a demi-god for the Dragonlance setting? Along the line of Ariakas(sp?).
#13 lily_knight Mar 25, 2004 5:08:11	Originally posted by Valharic I've never understood players apprehention and dislike for things and the need belittle it. Because it makes those players feel big. Believe me, I do it all the time. ;)
#14 cam_banks Mar 25, 2004 6:54:34	Originally posted by Baron the Curse "Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Ratmen!!" Excellent sourcebook. The Slitheren are not lycanthrope so they are a perfect race for Dragonlance if you can work out a background for them. I would suggest naturally an alliance to Morgion. I wish the Scarred Lands folks had chosen a name for their ratmen that didn't sound like one of the Houses at Hogwarts. Cheers, Cam
#15 Dragonhelm Mar 25, 2004 7:05:38	Originally posted by Cam Banks I wish the Scarred Lands folks had chosen a name for their ratmen that didn't sound like one of the Houses at Hogwarts. Cheers, Cam You could always use "Nezumi". :D
#16 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2004 7:10:26	Originally posted by kendernbabe Would these be decent templates to use when designing a demi-god for the Dragonlance setting? Along the line of Ariakas(sp?). Was Ariakas a demigod? I know his son Ariakan was.
#17 cam_banks Mar 25, 2004 7:47:16	Originally posted by vejono Was Ariakas a demigod? I know his son Ariakan was. There's no actual evidence to say that Ariakan had any special powers inherited from his mother, Zeboim. He wasn't able to command the power of the sea or anything like that - and he wasn't immortal, didn't have spell resistance, etc. Ariakas certainly wasn't a demigod. He was a pretty tough customer, though. Cheers, Cam
#18 sweetmeats Mar 25, 2004 8:01:26	Originally posted by Baron the Curse "Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Ratmen!!" Excellent sourcebook. The Slitheren are not lycanthrope so they are a perfect race for Dragonlance if you can work out a background for them. I would suggest naturally an alliance to Morgion. Good book. I use it for these creatures as well, but as usual, I put the blame for their existence on the Graystone. Also, as I recall, in one of the Dragonlance Tales novels there is a ratman.
#19 silvanthalas Mar 25, 2004 8:42:58	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer Official Half-Races of Ansalon: Half-elf, half-kender, half-ogre. So three half-races is too much for you? What about half-dwarves?
#20 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2004 8:59:56	Originally posted by Dragonhelm You could always use "Nezumi". :D Completely off-topic, but I thought I'd mention that L5R is the CCG of choice among Sovereign Press. (I've been playing since Imperial Edition.) We just recently re-started our tiny card-league with Diamond Edition and try to play semi-regularly. No one's playing a ratling deck yet, though! On-topic, I can say that among the many cool things offered in the Bestiary, rat-men do not seem to be one of them. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#21 Dragonhelm Mar 25, 2004 9:06:41	Originally posted by silvanthalas What about half-dwarves? Half-dwarves were mentioned in Soulforge, IIRC. I think one took the Test. Here's some stats if anyone is interested in playing one: Half-Dwarf Jamie - I'm a fan of the L5R RPG, although I haven't really played the card game. I'm overwhelmed by the amount of detail in that setting. I occasionally play Living Rokugan (now Heroes of Rokugan) with the d10 system, and ran the d20 a time or two.
#22 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2004 9:12:21	Originally posted by vejono Was Ariakas a demigod? I know his son Ariakan was. So, sorry about the mistake (they shouldn't have given them such familiar names ) Anyway, how are "demi-gods" worked in DL? I'm not out to confuse the world or even the players but, we have seen at least two instances of demi-gods in DL and I'm just wondering how they would work in game (figuring stats and such). Obviously Ariakan did not display "classic signs of godhood" but, having never seen stats for him anyway perhaps his godhood was shown in his higher than average intelligence, wisdom, charisma, etc.
#23 brimstone Mar 25, 2004 10:15:38	Originally posted by kendernbabe Anyway, how are "demi-gods" worked in DL? I'm not out to confuse the world or even the players but, we have seen at least two instances of demi-gods in DL and I'm just wondering how they would work in game Three actually. Bast, Ariakan, and Athra (or something like that...what in the Abyss was her name?) You know...Takhisis' "daughter." I think she was from the DLE modules, right? (and there's mention of her in Heroes of Hope)
#24 cam_banks Mar 25, 2004 10:24:13	Originally posted by Brimstone Three actually. Bast, Ariakan, and Athra (or something like that...what in the Abyss was her name?) You know...Takhisis' "daughter." I think she was from the DLE modules, right? (and there's mention of her in Heroes of Hope) Artha. Yes, the hideously bloated semi-decaying demigoddess that fell in love with a mutated draconian. Hopelessly romantic. If you want to include other children of the gods, then there's the miserably unpopular Malfesus from the New Tales: The Land Reborn module released in 2nd edition who is more or less just a big multiheaded monster living in a cave. Oh, and Jiathuli, Krynn's answer to Lolth and "handmaiden to Takhisis" from Wild Elves. Cheers, Cam
#25 brimstone Mar 25, 2004 12:14:54	Right...Lolth...forgot about her. I never realized, though, that Malfesus was supposed to be a demigod (or if I did...I've forgotten in the 7 years or so since I last opened "New Tales"). Oh...and I can't believe I got so close to the name. You should see some of the names I came up with before I settled on "Athra." I think Atlena and Artlana and Arthena were some possible choices. heh heh I seriously thought I was way off.
#26 ferratus Mar 25, 2004 12:55:19	Originally posted by Cam Banks If you want to include other children of the gods, then there's the miserably unpopular Malfesus from the New Tales: The Land Reborn module released in 2nd edition who is more or less just a big multiheaded monster living in a cave. Of course, this begs an interesting question. While I'm not advocating lots of new demigods for the setting, could a lot of elder/upper echelon demons and devils from the abyss be children of the gods like Malfesus? How about on the side of Light? Paladine and Mishakal have the perfect marriage, but I can't imagine Branchala being completely chaste, what with a smoothie bard and all.
#27 zombiegleemax Mar 25, 2004 21:25:50	I've actually dealt with the demigod issue. I believe I read once somewhere that in the laws of the Tobril, there could be only 7 gods from each faction, and any other children they had were demigods. Examples of such children of these gods are Bast, Artha, and Zaphkiel(okay, this isn't official, but I think he should be a son of Paladine and Mishakal). I also think that Barachiel should be Branchala's brother. Next, I think that a pairing between a god and a celestial/fiend should just make a very powerful celestial(for example, I have Raziel being the son of Kiri-Jolith and an Archon). Finally, the pairing of a god and a mortal. This is wherre I think Half-Celestials and Half-Fiends should come in, or possibly Aasimars and Tieflings. I would like to make Ariakan one of the above, and it's looking like it'd be a tiefling, as a tieflins having horns or a tail or whatnot is purely a roleplaying thing, while things like bat wings or fangs are a game rule thing. I don't know about a celestial/fiend and a mortal, though.
#28 zombiegleemax Mar 26, 2004 9:46:23	Actualy, assimar and tieflings are generaly reserved for creatures that are a quarter outsider or less. The half template is generaly applied to the children of outsiders and humans. Its the second generation and beond that gets the tiefling/assimar/genasi/gloamling/Fey'ri/what have you package. So I would give Ariakan the half-fiend template that looks particularly human.
#29 The_White_Sorcerer Mar 26, 2004 11:25:58	Originally posted by Halabis [BSo I would give Ariakan the half-fiend template that looks particularly human. [/b] What about the wings and fangs? They aren't just cosmetic.
#30 zombiegleemax Mar 26, 2004 22:46:30	Originally posted by Halabis Actualy, assimar and tieflings are generaly reserved for creatures that are a quarter outsider or less. The half template is generaly applied to the children of outsiders and humans. Its the second generation and beond that gets the tiefling/assimar/genasi/gloamling/Fey'ri/what have you package. Yes, I know this, but as I said, the fangs and wings are game rule stuff, but the horns on a tiefling are just cosmetic, so I think I would use their stats instead of a half-fiend's for Ariakan.
#31 zombiegleemax Mar 26, 2004 23:19:01	Oh ho! Not in my game! I still include the tables for random features of tieflings...so when the horns come up on the chart, the character gets a gore attack! ;) :D
#32 zombiegleemax Mar 28, 2004 21:22:42	Originally posted by silvanthalas What about half-dwarves? Half Irda?
#33 zombiegleemax Mar 28, 2004 21:29:15	Don't forget that there are no halflings on Krynn either. ;)