...in Taladas. ;)
But I think you may be refering to the Elian Wilds. The island east of the Dairly Plains.
A while back, on these boards, people were talking about a place, I thought it was on Ansalon, that had an Asian-like society. I think it was in the Odyssey of Gilthanis, but I'm not sure, I've never read it. I looked in the DLCS, but I couldn't find it. Am I missing something? Or were they talking about Taladas? Also, exactly *HOW* Asian are they? Enough so that they would have wakizashi? Or maybe even...samurai(yay! A way to use the samurai class in DL without having to make a whole other continent!)?
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
Sorry, I had a bit of a fever and I was tired when I wrote it, so I may have not made sense. So I will start over.
A while back, on these boards, people were talking about a place, I thought it was on Ansalon, that had an Asian-like society. I think it was in the Odyssey of Gilthanis, but I'm not sure, I've never read it. I looked in the DLCS, but I couldn't find it. Am I missing something? Or were they talking about Taladas? Also, exactly *HOW* Asian are they? Enough so that they would have wakizashi? Or maybe even...samurai(yay! A way to use the samurai class in DL without having to make a whole other continent!)?
Well, in Odyssey of Gilthanas, the story and game appendix both describe the island of Elian as populated by extremely skilled martial artists titled Masters of Rank, former slaves of a Scion. There is no real description of the people there, other than that they are a heavily patriarchal society. The only personal name we discover is that of Solov, a Master of Rank sent to hunt down Gilthanas. That's it.
One interesting point, one of my players is of Indonesian heritage, and I use his features as a rough example as to how the people native to neraka look. It does add alittle flavour, and certainly made that player feel a little special.
Originally posted by Lily_Knight
In the annioated legends Tracy Hickman talked alot about the Indonesian names he borrowed to use in his books. Now, Indonesia isn't exactly in asia, but it is pretty close.
.
Yes, Indonesia is in Asia. South-east Asia, to be precise, but it's still Asia.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Yes, Indonesia is in Asia. South-east Asia, to be precise, but it's still Asia.
I live in Australia and I didn't want to upset anyone, Indonesia are our neighbours. Perhaps subconsiously that is the reason that Neraka's northern neighbour (Nordmaar) has the Northern Australian accent when I roleplay...
Originally posted by Lily_Knight
I live in Australia and I didn't want to upset anyone, Indonesia are our neighbours. Perhaps subconsiously that is the reason that Neraka's northern neighbour (Nordmaar) has the Northern Australian accent when I roleplay...
Thats OK. Most of my NPCs have New Zealand accents if I don't consciously try to change them. Funny that.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by iltharanos
Well, in Odyssey of Gilthanas, the story and game appendix both describe the island of Elian as populated by extremely skilled martial artists titled Masters of Rank, former slaves of a Scion. There is no real description of the people there, other than that they are a heavily patriarchal society. The only personal name we discover is that of Solov, a Master of Rank sent to hunt down Gilthanas. That's it.
Hey...so, if there's not any info on them, does that mean I can make them into an oriental-style society, with samurai and shugenja and wakizashi and katana and ninja and such? THat would be so cool! And please, I don't want anyone saying that I can do whatever I want in my campagn, I know that I can, I just want to know if anyone else thinks this is a good idea.
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
Hey...so, if there's not any info on them, does that mean I can make them into an oriental-style society, with samurai and shugenja and wakizashi and katana and ninja and such? THat would be so cool! And please, I don't want anyone saying that I can do whatever I want in my campagn, I know that I can, I just want to know if anyone else thinks this is a good idea.
Sounds like a good idea to me. You wouldn't exactly be contradicting official sources either, since the area is very sketchily detailed.
Oh yeah, forgot this in my last post. The Ran-Eli (the name of the people that live on Elian) were used as assassins by the Kingpriests prior to the first Cataclysm. Perhaps these could be ninjas, hehe.
Hey...so, if there's not any info on them, does that mean I can make them into an oriental-style society, with samurai and shugenja and wakizashi and katana and ninja and such? THat would be so cool! And please, I don't want anyone saying that I can do whatever I want in my campagn, I know that I can, I just want to know if anyone else thinks this is a good idea.
Depends on how its done.
If the Oriental themes are done well, and presented will excellent flavor, depth, and character... then go for it.
If you're just doing it because you think Oriental material is "cooler" or "just totally sweet", then I'd say it would probably detract from the overall role-playing experience. The rule of the day should be: less form, more substance.
It really irritates me how people just throw in "samurai" and "ninja" just because they're "exotic", and have no further understanding other than "samurai is like a Japanese paladin" (uhhh no) and "ninja is just a Japanese rogue or assassin" (*shudders* Oh, god, no).
Laterz.
Originally posted by heretic888
Depends on how its done.
If the Oriental themes are done well, and presented will excellent flavor, depth, and character... then go for it.
If you're just doing it because you think Oriental material is "cooler" or "just totally sweet", then I'd say it would probably detract from the overall role-playing experience. The rule of the day should be: less form, more substance.
It really irritates me how people just throw in "samurai" and "ninja" just because they're "exotic", and have no further understanding other than "samurai is like a Japanese paladin" (uhhh no) and "ninja is just a Japanese rogue or assassin" (*shudders* Oh, god, no).
Laterz.
Well, I do think that they are tatally seewt, but not *JUST* totally sweet. I am a Legend of the Five Rings junkie, and I try to learn all I can about samurai and ninja, and shugenja, but I have never found a real-world reference to them ,which makes me think they did not exist, which makes me sad ;_;. Oh well.
I know that samurai were a social class of warriors who lived by the tenants of bushido(the way of the warrior), which I think is more enlightened than its European equivalent, chivalry.
Unfortunately, most of my knowledge of ninja comes from L5R and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles(the original comics, in which I believe they were more like real ninja then they have been portrayed as in most of their other incarnations, especially Raphael), and I sometimes get many conflicting tales of them. Some say they are honorable, some that they are honorable in their own way, which is very different than most other definitions of honor, some that they were fighters, some that they were stealth assassins, etc. I think I would just use the L5R definition of the ninja in my games.
I have just simply always been fascinated with feudal Japan. I may not be an expert, but I do know enough to give them thjeir due credit.
Well, I do think that they are tatally seewt, but not *JUST* totally sweet.
*nods* Ok.
I am a Legend of the Five Rings junkie, and I try to learn all I can about samurai and ninja, and shugenja, but I have never found a real-world reference to them ,which makes me think they did not exist, which makes me sad ;_;. Oh well.
*raises eyebrow* If you can't find any real-world references about these individuals, I would suggest you haven't been looking very hard.
Shugendo is researched fairly easily (most "Eastern Religion" dictionaries will mention it), and there are still practicing yamabushi in Japan. The abundance of samurai material is so overwhelming that its beyond question that they existed --- I would personally suggest Karl Friday's works. Ninja sources, although much more limited, are also there if you look for them --- both in historical treatises like the Bansenshukai and Shoninki, and in the works of modern-day researchers like Koyama Ryutaro.
I know that samurai were a social class of warriors who lived by the tenants of bushido(the way of the warrior), which I think is more enlightened than its European equivalent, chivalry.
The modern-day tenets of "Bushido" were, more likely than not, the creation of the Edo and Meiji Periods. There doesn't seem to have been any "unifying code" of the Japanese warrior during the warring states era (although there are always backdrops of Japanese culture as a whole --- including family loyalty, social face, and general respect).
I fail to see how bushido is any more "enlightened" than chivalry. I wouldn't personally consider a system that regards pride (whether your own or your lord's) as being more significant than human life as being particularly "enlightened".
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles(the original comics, in which I believe they were more like real ninja then they have been portrayed as in most of their other incarnations, especially Raphael
I personally thing a decent amount of research was done by Eastman and Laird in the original TMNT comics.
I would say, however, that Raphael is the least "ninja-like" of the TMNT. ;)
and I sometimes get many conflicting tales of them. Some say they are honorable, some that they are honorable in their own way, which is very different than most other definitions of honor, some that they were fighters, some that they were stealth assassins, etc.
Those conflicting accounts stem from the fact that different people have different definitions in regards to what a "ninja" is.
Many, often the less educated on the subject, seem to think any person performing "stealthy stuff" in feudal Japan would be classified as a "ninja". Now, this isn't very historically accurate --- but its what many people think, and it is the source of many of the conflicting tales you mentioned before.
It should be mentioned this is also the general definition that L5R seems to have regarding "ninja" (as Way of the Ninja so eloquently points out).
A more accurate depiction would be that the "ninja" refer to the groups of people given the title "shinobi no mono" by their contemporaries, and to the people that began referring to their arts as "ninjutsu" (or "shinobijutsu") --- and this refers, in both cases, to the mercenary-jizamurai from Iga and Koga (and their many offshoots).
Laterz. ;)
Originally posted by heretic888
The modern-day tenets of "Bushido" were, more likely than not, the creation of the Edo and Meiji Periods. There doesn't seem to have been any "unifying code" of the Japanese warrior during the warring states era (although there are always backdrops of Japanese culture as a whole --- including family loyalty, social face, and general respect).
I fail to see how bushido is any more "enlightened" than chivalry. I wouldn't personally consider a system that regards pride (whether your own or your lord's) as being more significant than human life as being particularly "enlightened".
'Enlightenment', itself, is a matter of personal philosophical and spiritual understand that supercedes the physical. This wasn't really a point of the samurai, unless one sought it from an individual drive, which had nothing to do with their placement in society. However, arguably, I can see how one could consider a samurai's life to be more enriched than a European knight. Samurai often were encouraged through their fostering and grooming to learn to appreciate art, literature, and the other fine graces of a higher station. While in Europe, a title of knight as the granting of the ability to more freely carry martial arms and the possibility of raising yourself up in society. It wasn't really until after the end of the age of chivalry, that the idea of chivalry became an ideal.
Correlanthias
Shugenja: I live out in the middle of Nowhere, Indiana. Our school library has exactly 2 interesting historical books, 1 on weapons and 1 on knights. Every other historical book is about either the Titanic, or the Holocaust. I don't get to go to the public library to see what they have. I asked a friend who takes Jujitsu to ask his sensei all about Japanese stuff because he learned all about it when he lived in Japan, and he never heard of shugenja.
Bushido: Yes, I admit that the pride above life thing is kinda...yeah...but there was a similar thing in chivalry, I do believe. Somehting about a knight being beheaded with his own sword for being dishonorable. At least when a samurai did it, it restored his honor, while a knight got to be remembered for all time as a coward or whatever.
TMNT: Well, I really have only gotten the chance to read the very first TMNT comic, the one were Raph goes out on his solo assassination mission. That was pretty ninja-y, although I will admit that while Raph got the assassin part down, the rest of it he needed work on.
Ninja: Ah. Thank you. As I said, all I have to work with is L5R, and a book I bought, The Palladium Book of Weapons and Assassins, which had some stuff on Ninja. I guess that that book is accurate, although it had a few things in there that I'm not so sure about, such as that ninja invented iajitsu and samurai just copied it. I htought that considering iajitsu was used with a katana, and ninja usually used other weapons, such as sai, bisento, and ninja-to(a cool weapon. My friend owns one. He's been calling it a katana for years, until I set him straight. A 22 in. katana. Heh heh heh), that it was a samurai art, though I may be wrong. I am not acountable for details I get wrong, as you can't blame me, I pretty much have 2 blurbs about samurai to go off of for all of my info.
Samurai: Knights are cool...but not compared to samurai. All knights did were ride horses and fight, and then act just like every other noble, while samurai actually did cool stuff like write haikus and paint and play instruments and such.
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
Samurai: Knights are cool...but not compared to samurai. All knights did were ride horses and fight, and then act just like every other noble, while samurai actually did cool stuff like write haikus and paint and play instruments and such.
It was a sign of a well-bred nobleman and knight to be able to sing, dance, play an instrument, entertain an audience, write poetry to woo a lady, and many other things which didn't involve lopping the head off a peasant. About as many of them failed to meet this particular ideal as samurai did failing to spend hours writing haiku, so consider that next time you go badmouthing the European chevalier. ;)
Cheers,
Cam (descended from vikings, but don't let that fool you)
Besides, people tend to gloss over the period in Japanese history where the samurais seized control of government and ruled ruthlessly.
All the haikus in the world don't detract from that...
Originally posted by QuentinGeorge
I've never understood the idolisation of the samurai way as compared to European chivalry. the concept is much the same.
The answer is simple: Katanas.
Katanas are inherently cooler than western swords, and they're all masterwork to boot. Thus, since samurai use cooler and better weapons than knights, samurai are cooler and better than knights. Simple.
(;))
I guess it is a matter of personal preference, even though realistically a european hand-and-a-half sword is much more durable and more flexible than a japanese katana.
Is a katana more cooler than the other curved sword ... scimitar?
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
I live out in the middle of Nowhere, Indiana. Our school library has exactly 2 interesting historical books, 1 on weapons and 1 on knights.
Talk to your local librarian about something called an "Inter-Library Loan," my friend. If they're worth their salt, they should be able to secure you a book from countless libraries across the country.
-Old French Admiral
However, arguably, I can see how one could consider a samurai's life to be more enriched than a European knight. Samurai often were encouraged through their fostering and grooming to learn to appreciate art, literature, and the other fine graces of a higher station.
That's not entirely true --- depending on which period we're talking about there.
The ideals of a "noble samurai" seem to be more or less a convention of Edo society, in which Japan witnessed a 300 year span of peace after centuries of civil war. It was only during this time of peace and order that the more "cultural" aspects of the samurai were actively pursued.
Of course, there are always exceptions to the norm --- in all times.
While in Europe, a title of knight as the granting of the ability to more freely carry martial arms and the possibility of raising yourself up in society. It wasn't really until after the end of the age of chivalry, that the idea of chivalry became an ideal.
HAH!! You know, if you interject "Europe" with "Japan", "knight" with "samurai", and "chivalry" with "bushido", you would have explained the situation in feudal Japan perfectly. :D
Kinda eery how many parallels there are in history, neh?
Shugenja: I live out in the middle of Nowhere, Indiana. Our school library has exactly 2 interesting historical books, 1 on weapons and 1 on knights. Every other historical book is about either the Titanic, or the Holocaust. I don't get to go to the public library to see what they have. I asked a friend who takes Jujitsu to ask his sensei all about Japanese stuff because he learned all about it when he lived in Japan, and he never heard of shugenja.
Well, ask him about 'yamabushi'. That is what practitioners of shugendo are more commonly called.
In addition, there are wesbites about shugendo (both in Japanese and English) available online. Just give the ol' dogpile a whirl.
Bushido: Yes, I admit that the pride above life thing is kinda...yeah...but there was a similar thing in chivalry, I do believe. Somehting about a knight being beheaded with his own sword for being dishonorable. At least when a samurai did it, it restored his honor, while a knight got to be remembered for all time as a coward or whatever.
*shrugs*
TMNT: Well, I really have only gotten the chance to read the very first TMNT comic, the one were Raph goes out on his solo assassination mission. That was pretty ninja-y, although I will admit that while Raph got the assassin part down, the rest of it he needed work on.
As I pointed out in another thread, just because someone goes all "black ops" doesn't mean they are necessarily being a "ninja" or even "ninja-like". That would be like saying every time I go hunting that I am being very "Native American".
Although I do understand the point you were trying to make, I think its a sad thing when something that is a near-universal factor of human existence gets solely attributed to a particular cultural group (with all other examplars of this factor being regarded as "versions" or "types" of that group --- such as Navy SEALS being "Western ninja" *shudders*).
Ninja: Ah. Thank you. As I said, all I have to work with is L5R, and a book I bought, The Palladium Book of Weapons and Assassins, which had some stuff on Ninja. I guess that that book is accurate, although it had a few things in there that I'm not so sure about
The Palladium Book of Weapons and Assassins got most of its information from 'Secrets of the Samurai' --- which isn't exactly the most factual or objective source when it comes to all things "ninja". I wouldn't put a lot of historical weight into what's said in the Palladium book (its descriptions and characterizations of the various ninja ryuha, for example, is laughable).
such as that ninja invented iajitsu and samurai just copied it.
Well, its not exactly like there's a hard-and-fast line dividing "ninja" from "samurai". Most "ninja" were of the bushi class.
And... I doubt that anyone can be attributed to having "invented" iaijutsu.
I htought that considering iajitsu was used with a katana, and ninja usually used other weapons, such as sai, bisento, and ninja-to(a cool weapon.
Iaijutsu and battojutsu can be used with almost any weapon. Togakure ryu Ninjutsu contains quite a few iaijutsu kata, and they are all done exclusively with ninja-to.
and ninja usually used other weapons, such as sai, bisento, and ninja-to(a cool weapon.
I don't think there's any real evidence to indicate that ninja on the whole did not use katana --- particularly considering that the famed "ninja-to" is exclusive to the Togakure ryu. The sai, however, was an Okinawan weapon and would not have been used by the shinobi families.
Samurai: Knights are cool...but not compared to samurai. All knights did were ride horses and fight, and then act just like every other noble, while samurai actually did cool stuff like write haikus and paint and play instruments and such.
Not really.
During the warring states era, samurai were pretty much just warriors. Nothing more, nothing less --- although there were exceptions, of course. It was only later, during the Tokugawa shogunate, that notions of "refined samurai" came to the forefront.
It was a sign of a well-bred nobleman and knight to be able to sing, dance, play an instrument, entertain an audience, write poetry to woo a lady, and many other things which didn't involve lopping the head off a peasant. About as many of them failed to meet this particular ideal as samurai did failing to spend hours writing haiku, so consider that next time you go badmouthing the European chevalier.
Exactly.
Laterz.
Not that I care...
But anyway, I thank you for your information, I like learning new things, even if it makes me find out that my old information in faulty.
And, I might diss knights, but I love them as well. I just think there's somehting about samurai that makes them cooler.
I have heard of the Inter-Library Loan thingie, my history teacher's wife is a librarian, and he used it to get a book for one girl in my class, but I never get to go to the public library, just the school one, and the librarian only gets what he aids want her to get, which are either books on the holocaust and the Titanic, in the case of historical books, and in fantasy, books about women pretending to be male knights. I don't mean to be politically incorrect, but once you've read the first 6 or 7 of those books, and watched the movie Mulan, they're all exactly the same.
Hmm...I wonder how my grandfather would have thought about that sentiment. The mid-twentieth century counterparts of the samurai class didn't treat his comrades too nicely...
Still, he did get a really nice sword after being part of the occupation force in Japan after the war.
And let us not remember that anyone who dares to touch his katana -- sheathed or unsheathed -- without permission, he is within his honor to correct the insult by slaying the offender on the spot, regardless if the action was an accident.
But I guess it can't be helped for us in the modern civilized society romanticized the Feudal Period of Europ and Japan, which is at its best, barbaric.
You know, this is fascinating and everything(you're a very learned person, heretic 888)
Not really. Its just that I have my interests and hobbies, like anyone else. Just so happens this particular subject matter happens to be one of 'em. :D
but I don't think we're talking about Dragonlance anymore...
*laughs* Guess not.
And, I might diss knights, but I love them as well. I just think there's somehting about samurai that makes them cooler.
It couldn't happen to be the fact that they are from a foreign, 'exotic' culture that you know little about, could it?? :fight!:
The only cool -- i.e., romantic -- thing about samurai is that they do not fear death. It is such that they built many rituals about it. I mean if his lord made some questionable decision or made a wrong choice, the strongest protest a loyal samurai would make is to commit seppuku. A samurai's loyalty is nearly absolute to the point of taking the blame before it falls upon his own lord, even if the punishment is death.
Heh. Personally, I think that is more romanticism than actual history. I sincerely doubt the samurai were any more "fearless" than their Western contemporaries.
Also, Japan is littered with stories of subordinate samurai killing their masters. The famed Oda Nobunaga, for example, suffered such a fate. Betrayals were quite common during the Sengoku Jidai era.
And let us not remember that anyone who dares to touch his katana -- sheathed or unsheathed -- without permission, he is within his honor to correct the insult by slaying the offender on the spot, regardless if the action was an accident.
Well, during the Edo Period anyway. I mean, practically everyone (well that might be an exaggeration) carried katanas around during the Warring States period --- bushi or peasant.
But I guess it can't be helped for us in the modern civilized society romanticized the Feudal Period of Europ and Japan, which is at its best, barbaric.
Bingo. :D
Laterz.
Originally posted by heretic888
Heh. Personally, I think that is more romanticism than actual history. I sincerely doubt the samurai were any more "fearless" than their Western contemporaries.
Really? And yet, I wonder why the we US don't utilize "kamikaze" pilots ourselves.
Really? And yet, I wonder why the we US don't utilize "kamikaze" pilots ourselves.
Two things:
1) 20th century Japanese fighter-pilots are not "samurai". Samurai ceased to exist with the Meiji Reformation in 1868.
2) To answer your question, I'd wager it has more to do with the United States military possessing superior technology, resources, and strategical intelligence than the Japanese military of the time.
Part of the reason that "kamikaze pilots" were employed was because of the materials that the Japanese made their planes out of, and their fuel out of.
Laterz.
Hey, what about stat-wise, what would a ninja be? I have access to the monk, rogue, and assassin classes(I own the core book, of course), the ninja base class from L5R, a conversion of the martial artist and the infiltrator advanced classes from d20 Modern, and a rough-and-dirty conversion of the ninja job from the Final Fantasy RPG(basically a tabletop version of the ninja job from Final Fantasy Tactics). What would the best thing be? Does anyone have a fan-made one that would be better? I wish I had Oriental Adventures, but I do not.
But I'm guessing you're looking for the archetypal ninja commonly found in movies, right?
I have to say I prefer the OA Ninja Spy prestige class.
I think that the US doesn't use kamikaze fighters because it'd be wrong.
Ah, the joy of ethnocentric absolutisms.
Hey, what about stat-wise, what would a ninja be?
Heavy into Dexterity, Wisdom, and Intelligence, I'd wager.
What would the best thing be? Does anyone have a fan-made one that would be better?
Yes. Mine.
Go here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188381
Enjoy. ;)
But I'm guessing you're looking for the archetypal ninja commonly found in movies, right?
I have to say I prefer the OA Ninja Spy prestige class.
The Ninja of the Crescent Moon in Sword and Fist is pretty neat, too. ;)
Laterz.
Hey, heretic888, just to make sure, even though it's called a shinobi no mono, it's a ninja, right? Making sure. I've heard of shinobi, but I thought they were supposed to be something similar but different to ninja, but then again, I might just be clinically insane. But it's a pretty sweet class all in all.
Also, as someone mentioned later on in that thread, a spellcasting ninja would be pretty cool; the shinobi would be more like a mystical-fighting-dude, sorta like a monk, and the spellcaster would be more of a...well...mystical-spellcasting-dude, I guess. Have you considered it? If so, no matter how they end up casting spells(arcane or divine, spontaneous or prepared), expect class variants from me using different types(hmmm...who in the DL pantheon would be ninja gods? Definately Hiddukel, for evil assassin ninja, but what of the others?).
...I don't suppose you've made your own samurai class, have you? The only one I have is from the Quintessential Samurai, and people tell me that Mongoose stuff is a little...crazy-fied.
Unfortunately, I do not have OA. I weep at night. A friend of mine does have an L5R book, but it's an older edition(I don't know how many editions it's been through), so it's really only good for RPing.
Well, then I suggest you get your rumpus out and buy it. :D
Hey, heretic888, just to make sure, even though it's called a shinobi no mono, it's a ninja, right? Making sure. I've heard of shinobi, but I thought they were supposed to be something similar but different to ninja, but then again, I might just be clinically insane.
'Shinobi no mono' and 'ninja' are different pronounciations for the same kanji (Chinese ideograms). Both literally mean 'person of perseverance'. Shinobi is the more historical term, as the pronounciation 'ninja' did not come into use until sometime in the 1800's. Shinobi was used exclusively before then (although these individuals were known by different names and terms from time to time).
But it's a pretty sweet class all in all.
Thank you. ;)
Also, as someone mentioned later on in that thread, a spellcasting ninja would be pretty cool; the shinobi would be more like a mystical-fighting-dude, sorta like a monk, and the spellcaster would be more of a...well...mystical-spellcasting-dude, I guess. Have you considered it?
As a prestige class, yes. As a base class, definitely not.
If so, no matter how they end up casting spells(arcane or divine, spontaneous or prepared), expect class variants from me using different types
Do whatever you want. Its your game.
hmmm...who in the DL pantheon would be ninja gods? Definately Hiddukel, for evil assassin ninja, but what of the others?).
There are, technically, no such thing as "evil assassin ninja". To use D&D terms, such a person would have stopped progressing as a 'ninja' and begun progression in another class type (probably the Assassin). An "evil ninja" would also lose most, if not all, his class abilities as a "ninja".
I personally think most of the "evil ninja" people attribute to history and mythology were probably Rogues, rather than actual shinobi.
In any event, the shinobi culture as I understand it, didn't lend itself much to deity worship. Their "religion" would probably be mostly identical to the Monk's focusing on personal development and "enlightenment", with the deities mostly used in a symbolic format.
That being said, the major deity in traditional Ninpo is Fudo Myoh -- a fearsome deity wielding a flaming sword, said to be patron god of Mikkyo (Tantric) Buddhism, and protector of the Dharma.
I don't suppose you've made your own samurai class, have you?
Nope. I suggest picking up OA (again). The samurai class in there is good enough for the character concept, in my opinion.
Laterz.
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
You know, this is fascinating and everything(you're a very learned person, heretic 888), but I don't think we're talking about Dragonlance anymore...
And as such, we should divert our attention to....
Oriental Dragonlance Adventures
And as a side note on kamikaze planes, my dad still carries shrapnel from a kamikaze from World War II.
Originally posted by heretic888
Well, then I suggest you get your rumpus out and buy it. :D
I would if I could, but I don't have the money to, and even if I did, my players might not be so approving if I bought it, which we probably wouldn't use very much, in lieu of, say, the Draconomicon.
As a prestige class, yes. As a base class, definitely not.
Alrighty. I have you quoted, now you have to do it by law.
There are, technically, no such thing as "evil assassin ninja". To use D&D terms, such a person would have stopped progressing as a 'ninja' and begun progression in another class type (probably the Assassin). An "evil ninja" would also lose most, if not all, his class abilities as a "ninja".
I personally think most of the "evil ninja" people attribute to history and mythology were probably Rogues, rather than actual shinobi.
In any event, the shinobi culture as I understand it, didn't lend itself much to deity worship. Their "religion" would probably be mostly identical to the Monk's focusing on personal development and "enlightenment", with the deities mostly used in a symbolic format.
That being said, the major deity in traditional Ninpo is Fudo Myoh -- a fearsome deity wielding a flaming sword, said to be patron god of Mikkyo (Tantric) Buddhism, and protector of the Dharma.
Well, in Dragonlance, it's very devoted to the Balance. Every force has to have another force on the opposite end of the scale. For example, the good and noble Knights of Solamnia, and the evil and(somewhat) noble Knights of Neraka, along with the (more or less) neutral Legion of Steel. So, if there where good, honorable ninja and neutral, contemplative ninja, then there has to be evil assassin ninja to be the balancing act. I would make the appropriate changes to the flavor text and game rule information to allow this.
Also, DL is very deity-centric, except for during the early 5th Age, when the gods were gone, and the early 4th Age, when everyone *THOUGHT* the gods were gone, so I owuld think the ninja would have to have a patron deity. For good ninja, I can only think of Paladine(head god of light, father of the metallic dragons, but he's a mortal now), Kiri-Jolith(god of war, Paladine's firstborn, but I think he would be head of samurai if anything), Majere(god of contemplation, good god of monks), and possibly Branchala(chaotic god while all of the above were lawful, Paladine's second son, more of an elven/bard god, but I already made a group of good assassin-like-ish followers of him, and ninja are sorta-kinda-assassin-ish, no matter what you say).
Neutral ninja really don't have many options. Possibly Sirrion(god of passion, alchemy, and fire), Zivilyn(god of wisdom, foresight, and prophecy, as well as a neutral monk god)...and that's about it.
Evil ninja(it has to be done. I'm sorry.) pretty much only have Takhisis(main goddess of evil, mother of chromatic dragons, but is now dead), Hiddukel(god of theives and dishonest merchants, also evil bard god), and possibly Sargonnas(evil god of war, patron of evil monks and minotaurs).
Nope. I suggest picking up OA (again). The samurai class in there is good enough for the character concept, in my opinion.
Refer to above.
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
...I don't suppose you've made your own samurai class, have you? The only one I have is from the Quintessential Samurai, and people tell me that Mongoose stuff is a little...crazy-fied.
Search around the Oriental Adventures forum. I posted a fighter variant version of the samurai.
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
... I have no idea why I threw my pillow, and I htink I might have been throwing a shuriken or somehting in my dream as I was waking up.
:heehee
I would if I could, but I don't have the money to
Dude. Its less than 30 bucks. C'mon, now....
and even if I did, my players might not be so approving if I bought it, which we probably wouldn't use very much, in lieu of, say, the Draconomicon.
Well, you could kindly inform that its your money, and you can purchase whatever you damn well please with it.
Alrighty. I have you quoted, now you have to do it by law.
No offense, man.... but don't hold your breath. I would like to write up something like you suggested, but don't expect it anytime soon.
In the meantime, you could take a look at the Shosuro Tejina prestige class in AEG's Way of the Ninja. It is setting-specific to Rokugan, but it might be something like what you're looking for.
Well, in Dragonlance, it's very devoted to the Balance. Every force has to have another force on the opposite end of the scale. For example, the good and noble Knights of Solamnia, and the evil and(somewhat) noble Knights of Neraka, along with the (more or less) neutral Legion of Steel.
I would say that the Shinobi no Mono would themselves be devoted to the Balance itself, as opposed to a particular deity or alignment. As I understand it, a core element of Ninpo philosophy is act in harmony and attunement with what they call the "scheme of totality" (very similar to, say, the impersonal Tao in Taoism).
So, if there where good, honorable ninja and neutral, contemplative ninja, then there has to be evil assassin ninja to be the balancing act.
Honestly.... I would say only the "neutral, contemplative ninja" would be members of this particular class. The other two don't seem to really fit, all things considered.
Shinobi don't seem to have a lot of respect for either "honor" or "evil". Of course, sometimes a good or neutral ninja could be an assassin (depending on the circumstances).
I would make the appropriate changes to the flavor text and game rule information to allow this.
Hey, its your game --- do whatever you want. Just remember that the alignment restrictions and code of conduct are a very important component of balancing the class (as well as making members of the class something more than generic assassins in black).
Also, DL is very deity-centric, except for during the early 5th Age, when the gods were gone, and the early 4th Age, when everyone *THOUGHT* the gods were gone, so I owuld think the ninja would have to have a patron deity.
Maybe so, but I doubt that EVERYONE in Dragonlance is particularly deity-centric. As before, the Shinobi would probably be more devoted to the Balance than any particular deity or alignment.
For good ninja, I can only think of Paladine(head god of light, father of the metallic dragons, but he's a mortal now), Kiri-Jolith(god of war, Paladine's firstborn, but I think he would be head of samurai if anything), Majere(god of contemplation, good god of monks), and possibly Branchala(chaotic god while all of the above were lawful, Paladine's second son, more of an elven/bard god, but I already made a group of good assassin-like-ish followers of him, and ninja are sorta-kinda-assassin-ish, no matter what you say).
Neutral ninja really don't have many options. Possibly Sirrion(god of passion, alchemy, and fire), Zivilyn(god of wisdom, foresight, and prophecy, as well as a neutral monk god)...and that's about it.
Evil ninja(it has to be done. I'm sorry.) pretty much only have Takhisis(main goddess of evil, mother of chromatic dragons, but is now dead), Hiddukel(god of theives and dishonest merchants, also evil bard god), and possibly Sargonnas(evil god of war, patron of evil monks and minotaurs).
I would just use Fudo Myoh. Of course, Zivilyn sounds like he might work, too. ;)
Laterz.
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
Sorry, I had a bit of a fever and I was tired when I wrote it, so I may have not made sense. So I will start over.
A while back, on these boards, people were talking about a place, I thought it was on Ansalon, that had an Asian-like society. I think it was in the Odyssey of Gilthanis, but I'm not sure, I've never read it. I looked in the DLCS, but I couldn't find it. Am I missing something? Or were they talking about Taladas? Also, exactly *HOW* Asian are they? Enough so that they would have wakizashi? Or maybe even...samurai(yay! A way to use the samurai class in DL without having to make a whole other continent!)?
Hi, there is no oriental society on the continent of Ansalon however on Taladas, or more specifically the Tamire in Northern Hosk is home to the Uigan & Kazar tribes. That is the only oriental civilization in Dragonlance... at least in official dragonlance. there is some fan work out there on some orientals as well though