Question about Bards in DL - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Question about Bards in DL

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Mar 30, 2004 10:43:30 I envision the npc bard that will be making numerous appearances in my campaign as a wandering Bard who helps everyone when he can. He walks among the people be they human to gully dwarf easing pain threw his music and healing magic. Do you think it is diruptive or wrong to give bards back there spells from the Conjuration(Healing) school? I think if a Bard worships a god like a cleric they should be able to cast those spells taken away from them. I could I guess multiclass as a bard/mystic or bard/cleric but that is taking away from his specialty. He'll be a moral boost to the people and the party in these times of great need. Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks.
#2
Dragonhelm
Mar 30, 2004 11:38:25 Healing magic in Dragonlance has ever been the domain of divine spellcasters. That's why the discovery of true healing in Chronicles is so important - it signifies the return of the gods.

Now, if you do want to add healing magic back in, my suggestion would be to say that he is, in fact, a "hybrid mage". His spells are mostly arcane, save for the healing spells he gains through mysticism.

Or, you can just make his spells divine in nature, use wisdom instead of charisma, and make him either a clerical bard or a mystic bard. Unearthed Arcana has some rules on how to do this.
#3
kipper_snifferdoo_02
Mar 30, 2004 18:11:18 Well if he will always be an NPC, depending on the time frame you are talking about, it could be the Herald in the Age of Mortals, or it could be Sebastius, brother of Astinus from the Great Library. Both are the "bard types" you are looking for. Although the Herald is the loner and Sebastius is usually in the company of the Players of Gilean. I imagine having "them" cast healing would make the players wonder just exactly who this mysterious bard "really" is. Heh.
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 30, 2004 22:03:14 Why go out and buy Unearthed Arcana when you can just direct your way over to dl3e.com or dragonlance.com and check out my gaming article, Enhancing your Dragonlance Game. I'm very proud of it.
#5
darthsylver
Mar 30, 2004 22:53:33 Now here is where I get a little confused, I always felt that healing magic was thesole province of clerics of Mishakel and at one time would have even restricted healing spells to only her clerics.
#6
cam_banks
Mar 30, 2004 22:59:00
Originally posted by darthsylver
Now here is where I get a little confused, I always felt that healing magic was thesole province of clerics of Mishakel and at one time would have even restricted healing spells to only her clerics.

Not at all. Clerics in general were capable of using healing magic, not just those of Mishakal. Mishakal's clerics were also skilled and practiced in more mundane forms of care and medicine though, so it was more likely in established cities before the Cataclysm for the sick or needy to attend her temples rather than, say, Majere's.

Cheers,
Cam
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 3:06:17 Thanks for the replys everyone. I have decided to leave bards as they are. The bard in question will just have to help those in need threw his music and kind soul. Kipper he is none of those that you mentioned. It is an npc I made up to help ease the groups pains at random times threw stories and song. He is also there to "nudge" the group in directions I want them to go or as my little tool to get the group to work together.
#8
lily_knight
Mar 31, 2004 6:09:45
Originally posted by Visrith Vingrad
Thanks for the replys everyone. I have decided to leave bards as they are.

In my opinion bards do not fit into the campaign world. I have tried them as specialists of Gilean, Branchala, or Hiddukel but they use ambient magic and the cloisted cleric variant by far works better for the aesthetics in the Great Library.

If they where mystics, then they wouldn't exist before the Fifth Age, which is'nt that convient for a DM who likes to hope back and forward through the ages. The same could be said if they used primal sorcery.

Finally as a Wizard of High Sorcery they would lose healing spells and be made to take the test and abide by rules which frankly would get them killed in serious battles.

So I don't include them. Simple, any 'bard' is simply an expert that focuses ranks in the perform skill.

By the way Jacen Solo007, keep plugging your article, i think it is awesome and every DM should read it. I gave it four stars.
#9
Dragonhelm
Mar 31, 2004 9:25:26
Originally posted by Lily_Knight
By the way Jacen Solo007, keep plugging your article, i think it is awesome and every DM should read it. I gave it four stars.

As a brief aside, I wanted to commend Jacen on his articles. Articles like that are good in that they show how to use existing materials in Dragonlance.

Keep up the good work, Jacen!
#10
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 21:56:24 *starts crying*

I love you guys!

Thank you very much, guys. I worked really hard on it. I'm working on my next article, Celestial Paragons in DL. I've just finished the Celestial Hebdomad. I will then work on converting the D20 Modern Advanced Classes that would fit to DL, and then I'll write my biggest article of all: The Monster Manual II in DL. Wish me luck!
NOTE: I'm also working on a ranger variant class, the Urban Stalker, and I also made a new feat, Wild Talent.

Well, back on topic, I think that bard is a nice class, but it does not work for the aesthetics. They'd probably just be experts. Bards are more for followers of Gilean who travel around the land, collecting and sharing stories and legends. Pretty much the same goes for bards of Branchala who inspire the people and bring them comfort. Bards of Hiddukel are rogues and decievers who use their knowledge to hurt others.

Also, I noticed you went over how primal, mystic, and high sorcery bards would not work for you, but what about bards who are specialized priests of the three bardic gods? They would cast healing magic, and be available before the Age of Mortals.
#11
talinthas
Mar 31, 2004 22:18:54 i was talking with frank, and he brought up an interesting point- Bardic magic can be either divine or arcane, depending on what type of bard it is. a cleric of branchala who is a bard is divinely inspired, a specialist cleric the way druids would be for chislev. A bard trained in the ergothian colleges would be an arcane bard, and just lacking healing magic from their spell list.

easy pre wotl patch.
#12
Dragonhelm
Mar 31, 2004 22:42:38
Originally posted by talinthas
i was talking with frank, and he brought up an interesting point- Bardic magic can be either divine or arcane, depending on what type of bard it is.

You mean like this?

Bards of Krynn: Options for Bardic Magic

Jacen, it seems that the only way I'll one-up you is to go straight for Arcana Unearthed. lol
#13
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 22:47:01
Originally posted by darthsylver
Now here is where I get a little confused, I always felt that healing magic was thesole province of clerics of Mishakel and at one time would have even restricted healing spells to only her clerics.

While healing was Mishakal's specialty, it was not her soul province. Kitiara was healed by an evil cleric when she cut her hand shattering one of Dalamar's delicate elven wine glasses during Legends. "True healing" was the big deal that meant the return of the True Gods, not just Mishakal.

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
#14
talinthas
Apr 01, 2004 1:28:14 actually trampas, your article did come up during the conversation =)

(i spent my spring break up in seattle hanging out with frank, stan and andre)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 30, 2004 10:43:30	I envision the npc bard that will be making numerous appearances in my campaign as a wandering Bard who helps everyone when he can. He walks among the people be they human to gully dwarf easing pain threw his music and healing magic. Do you think it is diruptive or wrong to give bards back there spells from the Conjuration(Healing) school? I think if a Bard worships a god like a cleric they should be able to cast those spells taken away from them. I could I guess multiclass as a bard/mystic or bard/cleric but that is taking away from his specialty. He'll be a moral boost to the people and the party in these times of great need. Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks.
#2 Dragonhelm Mar 30, 2004 11:38:25	Healing magic in Dragonlance has ever been the domain of divine spellcasters. That's why the discovery of true healing in Chronicles is so important - it signifies the return of the gods. Now, if you do want to add healing magic back in, my suggestion would be to say that he is, in fact, a "hybrid mage". His spells are mostly arcane, save for the healing spells he gains through mysticism. Or, you can just make his spells divine in nature, use wisdom instead of charisma, and make him either a clerical bard or a mystic bard. Unearthed Arcana has some rules on how to do this.
#3 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Mar 30, 2004 18:11:18	Well if he will always be an NPC, depending on the time frame you are talking about, it could be the Herald in the Age of Mortals, or it could be Sebastius, brother of Astinus from the Great Library. Both are the "bard types" you are looking for. Although the Herald is the loner and Sebastius is usually in the company of the Players of Gilean. I imagine having "them" cast healing would make the players wonder just exactly who this mysterious bard "really" is. Heh.
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 30, 2004 22:03:14	Why go out and buy Unearthed Arcana when you can just direct your way over to dl3e.com or dragonlance.com and check out my gaming article, Enhancing your Dragonlance Game. I'm very proud of it.
#5 darthsylver Mar 30, 2004 22:53:33	Now here is where I get a little confused, I always felt that healing magic was thesole province of clerics of Mishakel and at one time would have even restricted healing spells to only her clerics.
#6 cam_banks Mar 30, 2004 22:59:00	Originally posted by darthsylver Now here is where I get a little confused, I always felt that healing magic was thesole province of clerics of Mishakel and at one time would have even restricted healing spells to only her clerics. Not at all. Clerics in general were capable of using healing magic, not just those of Mishakal. Mishakal's clerics were also skilled and practiced in more mundane forms of care and medicine though, so it was more likely in established cities before the Cataclysm for the sick or needy to attend her temples rather than, say, Majere's. Cheers, Cam
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 3:06:17	Thanks for the replys everyone. I have decided to leave bards as they are. The bard in question will just have to help those in need threw his music and kind soul. Kipper he is none of those that you mentioned. It is an npc I made up to help ease the groups pains at random times threw stories and song. He is also there to "nudge" the group in directions I want them to go or as my little tool to get the group to work together.
#8 lily_knight Mar 31, 2004 6:09:45	Originally posted by Visrith Vingrad Thanks for the replys everyone. I have decided to leave bards as they are. In my opinion bards do not fit into the campaign world. I have tried them as specialists of Gilean, Branchala, or Hiddukel but they use ambient magic and the cloisted cleric variant by far works better for the aesthetics in the Great Library. If they where mystics, then they wouldn't exist before the Fifth Age, which is'nt that convient for a DM who likes to hope back and forward through the ages. The same could be said if they used primal sorcery. Finally as a Wizard of High Sorcery they would lose healing spells and be made to take the test and abide by rules which frankly would get them killed in serious battles. So I don't include them. Simple, any 'bard' is simply an expert that focuses ranks in the perform skill. By the way Jacen Solo007, keep plugging your article, i think it is awesome and every DM should read it. I gave it four stars.
#9 Dragonhelm Mar 31, 2004 9:25:26	Originally posted by Lily_Knight By the way Jacen Solo007, keep plugging your article, i think it is awesome and every DM should read it. I gave it four stars. As a brief aside, I wanted to commend Jacen on his articles. Articles like that are good in that they show how to use existing materials in Dragonlance. Keep up the good work, Jacen!
#10 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 21:56:24	starts crying I love you guys! Thank you very much, guys. I worked really hard on it. I'm working on my next article, Celestial Paragons in DL. I've just finished the Celestial Hebdomad. I will then work on converting the D20 Modern Advanced Classes that would fit to DL, and then I'll write my biggest article of all: The Monster Manual II in DL. Wish me luck! NOTE: I'm also working on a ranger variant class, the Urban Stalker, and I also made a new feat, Wild Talent. Well, back on topic, I think that bard is a nice class, but it does not work for the aesthetics. They'd probably just be experts. Bards are more for followers of Gilean who travel around the land, collecting and sharing stories and legends. Pretty much the same goes for bards of Branchala who inspire the people and bring them comfort. Bards of Hiddukel are rogues and decievers who use their knowledge to hurt others. Also, I noticed you went over how primal, mystic, and high sorcery bards would not work for you, but what about bards who are specialized priests of the three bardic gods? They would cast healing magic, and be available before the Age of Mortals.
#11 talinthas Mar 31, 2004 22:18:54	i was talking with frank, and he brought up an interesting point- Bardic magic can be either divine or arcane, depending on what type of bard it is. a cleric of branchala who is a bard is divinely inspired, a specialist cleric the way druids would be for chislev. A bard trained in the ergothian colleges would be an arcane bard, and just lacking healing magic from their spell list. easy pre wotl patch.
#12 Dragonhelm Mar 31, 2004 22:42:38	Originally posted by talinthas i was talking with frank, and he brought up an interesting point- Bardic magic can be either divine or arcane, depending on what type of bard it is. You mean like this? Bards of Krynn: Options for Bardic Magic Jacen, it seems that the only way I'll one-up you is to go straight for Arcana Unearthed. lol
#13 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 22:47:01	Originally posted by darthsylver Now here is where I get a little confused, I always felt that healing magic was thesole province of clerics of Mishakel and at one time would have even restricted healing spells to only her clerics. While healing was Mishakal's specialty, it was not her soul province. Kitiara was healed by an evil cleric when she cut her hand shattering one of Dalamar's delicate elven wine glasses during Legends. "True healing" was the big deal that meant the return of the True Gods, not just Mishakal. Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#14 talinthas Apr 01, 2004 1:28:14	actually trampas, your article did come up during the conversation =) (i spent my spring break up in seattle hanging out with frank, stan and andre)