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Epic magic on Krynn?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 10:44:36 Seeing as how the old "18th level and you're gone" rule from 1e DL is now retconned out of existence, what is the general opinion here on epic magic on Krynn? It would certainly explain the fear the Conclave felt for Raistlin, if he possessed the Epic Spellcasting Feat, and would also help explain how he felt confident enough to challenge Takhisis.

Do you, as DMs, allow epic spellcasting on Krynn? And if so, do you restrict it or houserule in some fashion? If you disallow it, why? Krynn is all about epic wars and divine conflicts, so I feel epic magic has a perfect place in the struggles of Ansalon.

In my Krynn, Ansalon has only ever had two epic spellcasters, both of them Wizards of High Sorcery, and both of them Black Robes: Fistandantilus, and his disciple and then eventual murderer, Raistlin Majere. But the possibility for such spells is inherent to all natives of Krynn, just waiting for the proper soul to bring it out once more.

--how do the rest of you feel NB
#2
iltharanos
Mar 31, 2004 11:57:46 Epic magic fits right into my views of Krynn, and is freely available in my campaign (assuming they fit all the requirements, of course).
#3
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 17:35:31 Personally, when the designers write up the spell "Timereaver" I hope its an epic spell.
#4
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 20:28:46 I think Timereaver is an Epic Spell. Epic magic fits into Krynn much the same way regular magic does. One need only bear in mind that, as with regular magic, it is somewhat rarer.

Other people besides Raistlin/Fistandantilus can probably reach Epic levels of ability. It could be argued that the land shaping abilities of the Dragon Overlords constitute Epic Spellcasting.

It all just a question of how it fits the campaign, and whether or not the gods allow it.
#5
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 20:32:14 Im certain that it would be allowed by the gods of magic.....I highly doubt that many people have been capable of casting epic spells.

I really look forward to the seeing small amounts of epic goodness in the new products...like in the bestiary...Id like to see epic monsters there...you know....at least 2 or 3.

And now back to epic magic.....perhaps timeheal would be another one. If I remember correctly that was a rather powerful one.
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 20:52:37
Originally posted by Nero's Boot

In my Krynn, Ansalon has only ever had two epic spellcasters, both of them Wizards of High Sorcery, and both of them Black Robes: Fistandantilus, and his disciple and then eventual murderer, Raistlin Majere.

What about Galan Dracos? He and his cabal of renegades wielded extraordinarily potent battle magics, and I would say that his creation of a freestanding Portal to the Abyss, as well as the forging of the emerald sphere, must have involved Epic magic.

In my opinion Epic magic should be permissable but very, very rare, restricted to a handful of arcane and divine casters in each generation. For a PC to gain access to the Epic Spellcasting feat should require involved rolelaying and personal sacrifices beyond simply meeting the level and skill requirements.
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 31, 2004 21:03:53 Timereaver's not Epic, per se, but that's definitely not to say that it's outside the boundaries for Epic magic to exist in Dragonlance.

And the reason I think it's a good idea to avoid creating Epic magic, at least for the primary sourcebooks at least, is that Sovereign Press can really only assume consumers possess the Core Rulebooks (The Sacred Trinity of the PHB, DMG & MM), and previous DL sourcebooks. Can be a pain in the butt, design-wise, but I actually like tryin' to figure creative ways to make things fit within certain parameters ;)

Christopher
#8
zombiegleemax
Apr 01, 2004 7:58:25
Originally posted by Twilight Herald
What about Galan Dracos? He and his cabal of renegades wielded extraordinarily potent battle magics, and I would say that his creation of a freestanding Portal to the Abyss, as well as the forging of the emerald sphere, must have involved Epic magic.

That just goes to show how long it's been since I last read that novel.

--yes, Dracos would likely be a low-level epic renegade NB
#9
Dragonhelm
Apr 01, 2004 9:39:20
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
--yes, Dracos would likely be a low-level epic renegade NB

Isn't "low-level epic" a contradiction of terms? ;)

Galan Dracos was quite powerful, and the mortal consort of the Dark Queen.

Was he an epic spellcaster? I'm not sure on that. High-level, yes.

You have to remember that part of what made him powerful was his orb. This orb tapped into the power of chaos, which enhanced his magic.

I would question whether he was using High Sorcery or if he somehow tapped into Wild Sorcery through the orb. I think he was still a wizard, but somehow used the sheer power of chaos to boost his magic.

This might make for a great topic for a new thread.
#10
zombiegleemax
Apr 03, 2004 23:48:27 The Defenders of Magic Trilogy was a huge inspiration to me, so in my campaign, epic magic is not relegated to the majority of mortals, at least not in whole. Sure there are certains secrets of the True Magicks that have slipped out, but the majority of that arcane lore is secreted away in the Lost Citadel, where mortals cannot attain and pervert it. My reasoning is that there are mystic secrets the gods feel necessary to hide from the world, and epic magic is that secret. There are instances in which magic beyond the ken of mortal power surface, but these are the stuff of legends and heroics, and it is certainly not a power any mortal could hope to harness.
#11
zombiegleemax
Apr 04, 2004 0:28:55 It is even possible that in their quests for power, that perhaps both Raistlin and Fistandantilus both traveled back to this age, to study under Galan Dracos, but in very limited capacity to avoid revealing their true power.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 10:44:36	Seeing as how the old "18th level and you're gone" rule from 1e DL is now retconned out of existence, what is the general opinion here on epic magic on Krynn? It would certainly explain the fear the Conclave felt for Raistlin, if he possessed the Epic Spellcasting Feat, and would also help explain how he felt confident enough to challenge Takhisis. Do you, as DMs, allow epic spellcasting on Krynn? And if so, do you restrict it or houserule in some fashion? If you disallow it, why? Krynn is all about epic wars and divine conflicts, so I feel epic magic has a perfect place in the struggles of Ansalon. In my Krynn, Ansalon has only ever had two epic spellcasters, both of them Wizards of High Sorcery, and both of them Black Robes: Fistandantilus, and his disciple and then eventual murderer, Raistlin Majere. But the possibility for such spells is inherent to all natives of Krynn, just waiting for the proper soul to bring it out once more. --how do the rest of you feel NB
#2 iltharanos Mar 31, 2004 11:57:46	Epic magic fits right into my views of Krynn, and is freely available in my campaign (assuming they fit all the requirements, of course).
#3 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 17:35:31	Personally, when the designers write up the spell "Timereaver" I hope its an epic spell.
#4 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 20:28:46	I think Timereaver is an Epic Spell. Epic magic fits into Krynn much the same way regular magic does. One need only bear in mind that, as with regular magic, it is somewhat rarer. Other people besides Raistlin/Fistandantilus can probably reach Epic levels of ability. It could be argued that the land shaping abilities of the Dragon Overlords constitute Epic Spellcasting. It all just a question of how it fits the campaign, and whether or not the gods allow it.
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 20:32:14	Im certain that it would be allowed by the gods of magic.....I highly doubt that many people have been capable of casting epic spells. I really look forward to the seeing small amounts of epic goodness in the new products...like in the bestiary...Id like to see epic monsters there...you know....at least 2 or 3. And now back to epic magic.....perhaps timeheal would be another one. If I remember correctly that was a rather powerful one.
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 20:52:37	Originally posted by Nero's Boot In my Krynn, Ansalon has only ever had two epic spellcasters, both of them Wizards of High Sorcery, and both of them Black Robes: Fistandantilus, and his disciple and then eventual murderer, Raistlin Majere. What about Galan Dracos? He and his cabal of renegades wielded extraordinarily potent battle magics, and I would say that his creation of a freestanding Portal to the Abyss, as well as the forging of the emerald sphere, must have involved Epic magic. In my opinion Epic magic should be permissable but very, very rare, restricted to a handful of arcane and divine casters in each generation. For a PC to gain access to the Epic Spellcasting feat should require involved rolelaying and personal sacrifices beyond simply meeting the level and skill requirements.
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 31, 2004 21:03:53	Timereaver's not Epic, per se, but that's definitely not to say that it's outside the boundaries for Epic magic to exist in Dragonlance. And the reason I think it's a good idea to avoid creating Epic magic, at least for the primary sourcebooks at least, is that Sovereign Press can really only assume consumers possess the Core Rulebooks (The Sacred Trinity of the PHB, DMG & MM), and previous DL sourcebooks. Can be a pain in the butt, design-wise, but I actually like tryin' to figure creative ways to make things fit within certain parameters ;) Christopher
#8 zombiegleemax Apr 01, 2004 7:58:25	Originally posted by Twilight Herald What about Galan Dracos? He and his cabal of renegades wielded extraordinarily potent battle magics, and I would say that his creation of a freestanding Portal to the Abyss, as well as the forging of the emerald sphere, must have involved Epic magic. That just goes to show how long it's been since I last read that novel. --yes, Dracos would likely be a low-level epic renegade NB
#9 Dragonhelm Apr 01, 2004 9:39:20	Originally posted by Nero's Boot --yes, Dracos would likely be a low-level epic renegade NB Isn't "low-level epic" a contradiction of terms? ;) Galan Dracos was quite powerful, and the mortal consort of the Dark Queen. Was he an epic spellcaster? I'm not sure on that. High-level, yes. You have to remember that part of what made him powerful was his orb. This orb tapped into the power of chaos, which enhanced his magic. I would question whether he was using High Sorcery or if he somehow tapped into Wild Sorcery through the orb. I think he was still a wizard, but somehow used the sheer power of chaos to boost his magic. This might make for a great topic for a new thread.
#10 zombiegleemax Apr 03, 2004 23:48:27	The Defenders of Magic Trilogy was a huge inspiration to me, so in my campaign, epic magic is not relegated to the majority of mortals, at least not in whole. Sure there are certains secrets of the True Magicks that have slipped out, but the majority of that arcane lore is secreted away in the Lost Citadel, where mortals cannot attain and pervert it. My reasoning is that there are mystic secrets the gods feel necessary to hide from the world, and epic magic is that secret. There are instances in which magic beyond the ken of mortal power surface, but these are the stuff of legends and heroics, and it is certainly not a power any mortal could hope to harness.
#11 zombiegleemax Apr 04, 2004 0:28:55	It is even possible that in their quests for power, that perhaps both Raistlin and Fistandantilus both traveled back to this age, to study under Galan Dracos, but in very limited capacity to avoid revealing their true power.