- Since this is the DM's guide there isn't too much on the "crunchy"; this is Ok with me.
- I like the way the history has advanced. It does lend itself to a more vicious and brutal setting. After DS2 it felt as if the world had a chance to survive; now it seems that everything is over but the crying. This is more in line with DS1 before PP.
- The background is glossed over and watered down. This is slightly disturbing but let's put this in perspective: the original setting had from 1991 to 1996 to introduce books for two of the races, the Sorcerer-kings/dragons, five of the classes, slave tribes, one of the ruined cities and so on to flesh out the world. The article in Dungeon has maybe 30 pages. Cut them so slack. Really.
- Using a 3rd edition viewpoint, I like how they handle the Sorcerer-Monarchs. Great Wyrm + 22 levels of wizard + 22 levels of psion = no way in heck that PCs are going to take them in a fight. Using Epic rules even further reinforces this fact.
- Expanding on the above point: what if the artifacts that Rajaat made were in fact epic artifacts? This even further reinforces the idea that Kalak was an imposter. He got taken out by some folks with two "regular" artifacts. It took the essence of Rajaat himself (through the Scourge) to take out two of the Champions. But I digress...
- Reverse engineering a 6th lvl mul NPC we find two things: the ability scores will be generated by 5d4 (this is further reinforced by a statement saying that PCs on Athas are more powerful than those on other worlds and that the ability score adjustments for a mul are as follows: Str +6, Dex +0, Con +6, Int -4, Wis -2. This 6th lvl mul fighter is a CR6, so we can also assume that the ECL of a mul is +1. Why +1 you say? Look to the next point.
- They have Wild Talents listed as a feat (in some of the NPCs, I might add), however in the first part of the article it states that all humans have higher ability scores than those in the PH and that they have one or more innate psioinc powers. This ups the power level of the PCs right from the word go. It also states that elves, halflings and dwarves are different culturally and (wait for it) mechanically than the ones presented in the PH. *insert cheesy music* Dum dum dum...
Overall I like it. I like it a lot. Many of you may not like it and that's ok. Just think about this: it has been almost eight years since the DS line of products was cancelled. And no matter how much you say the Athas.org conversion is "official", no one outside of the few people on the boards here and other places considers it official.
After eight years we have support of the best campaign world ever. Take it for what it's worth.
Remember, this is nothing more than my opinion. And remember the old saying "opinions are like no.2 holes; everyone has them and everyone but mine stinks ;)
Originally posted by Ground_State Johnny
Overall I like it. I like it a lot. Many of you may not like it and that's ok. Just think about this: it has been almost eight years since the DS line of products was cancelled. And no matter how much you say the Athas.org conversion is "official", no one outside of the few people on the boards here and other places considers it official.
Well, WotC considers the athas.org version official. But, of course, they don't know anything about d20, D&D, etc.
Actually, there are many little things from the version in Dungeon and in Dragon that makes me leary about using it. The watered-down history, the blatant ignoring of various elements from DS1 and DS2 whenever it seemed they wanted, and the slight rewriting of many elements. Plus, I'm not impressed by their writeup on the Defiler. As such, I'm going to probably completely ignore the Dragon magazine and the Dungeon magazine version of Athas, simply because it doesn't mesh well with me. It actually seems to cheapen Athas quite a bit in my eyes. But, to each their own.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
[b]
Well, WotC considers the athas.org version official. But, of course, they don't know anything about d20, D&D, etc.
:heehee
I like the way the history has advanced. It does lend itself to a more vicious and brutal setting. After DS2 it felt as if the world had a chance to survive; now it seems that everything is over but the crying. This is more in line with DS1 before PP.
Yeah, really great...all your heros in the past 300 (!) years have been a bunch of losers and didn't change anything...no wait...they actually managed to get it worse! DM's, all your longtime campaigns build around saving Athas are thereby doomed to fail... (Don't even think about telling me that I could simply ignore the timeline...I will! At least concerning the "it only got worse" -parts! Oronis, Sadira and my heros will save the world!)
I think that DS only got interesting after DS2! DS1 was way to one-dimensional. Brutal-vicious survival hack-feast. Dry as the silt sea. Where is the point to being a hero if all you can do is to try not to bite the dust?
I thought it was a decent attempt at describing the setting in 3E with only 30 pages to do it in.
I liked DS in its first incarnation and Im glad that this version points more in that direction. DS2 played with too many of the original rules in the game and was full of inconsistancies.
This version with its sparse history basically allows you to tweak it to your liking rather easily. For those fans that will complain that there is not enough background history. Guess what? You know it (DS history) already take it from there and move on.
Plus as the first poster said at least its printed after not having anything for many years.
For those fans that will complain that there is not enough background history.
Its not that there is no background history, its that there is no consistancy between the presented setting and previous history itself. It creates more coninuity errors than any one single resource out there.
DS2 played with too many of the original rules in the game and was full of inconsistancies.
The entire first line of modules and adventures is what started the ball rolling with the inconsistancies. They almost seemed inevitably built into the setting.
Plus as the first poster said at least its printed after not having anything for many years
Print, in my never so humble opinion, is overrated. Crap in print is still crap non-the-less. Information is the resource. The method of dispersal of that information is a trivial matter. I'd rather have great information written in crayon on used toilet paper than garbage scrawled in flowing script on golden leaflets (okay, I'll take the gold books first, but then its off to the pawn shop).
Using a 3rd edition viewpoint, I like how they handle the Sorcerer-Monarchs. Great Wyrm + 22 levels of wizard + 22 levels of psion = no way in heck that PCs are going to take them in a fight.
Hmm, I had thought this was D&D we were playing. You could give a SK twice that in levels and more uber magics than what it took god to create the world and some group is still going to kill off an SK or two. The only way to quantify that statement "no way in heck that PCs are going to take them in a fight." is to not give the SKs stats at all. Ever. Not once. Not even a little +1 by their name. Go on, try it. I dare you. Stating anything makes it killable.
What self-respecting DS DM actually lets his PCs improve the world? I always let the players think they're making things better while actually only screwing it up further. Of course, then they try to correct their error only to make things worse. I love being an arse.
I agree here. The best the PCs can ever hope for in my games (and they know it too), is to make their own individual lives a little better. And even then, they're still quite likely to die of unnatural causes and tembo dens.
I think that DS only got interesting after DS2! DS1 was way to one-dimensional. Brutal-vicious survival hack-feast. Dry as the silt sea. Where is the point to being a hero if all you can do is to try not to bite the dust?
I like some aspects of both. Some of the change from innitial release to revised was good. Some if it, was crap. A few points in Noonan's article are good (give me time, I'm sure there's one or two), and some of it is crap.
Anyways, do the fluffy bits really matter that much?
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
People seem awful upset about this and I can see why some are (like athas.org folks). Honestly though, I have enough books (and the ones I don't have I can get in PDF form) that I can set up and decide on my own setting for my game, the only thing I was interested in seeing was the conversion of the crunchy bits which the jury is still out on (well, at least my diabolic ferret jury), though I already know the Half-Giant has got to go if it's the xPsiHB one they showed on the site.
Anyways, do the fluffy bits really matter that much?
Crunchy bits (gamesystem cogs and gears) without fluffy bits (storyline & setting) makes for a quick hack & slash game. I generally make a very real, interactive world where the characters' actions can have some drastic and unexpected results, by simply running in my head how NPC's would interact with each other as well as with the players. Making a seamless and integrated storyline helps establish how these NPC's would act, IMHO.
---
And Mach, what you said about not stating SK's..... that's umm... why I haven't done my writeups on them..... I've been rethinking actually stating them up individually. Even though, I do believe it should be possible for a group to potentially be able to take one down eventually.
Hmm, I had thought this was D&D we were playing. You could give a SK twice that in levels and more uber magics than what it took god to create the world and some group is still going to kill off an SK or two. The only way to quantify that statement "no way in heck that PCs are going to take them in a fight." is to not give the SKs stats at all. Ever. Not once. Not even a little +1 by their name. Go on, try it. I dare you. Stating anything makes it killable.
I've posted my Hamanu stats before, so I won't repost them here. Remember that these guys (and gals) are 4-6,000 years old. Think about that for a second. If you consider Babylon to be the first sign of human civilization, that's only about 2,000 BC or so. Since we're in 2,000 now, that means 4,000 years of human history, give or take a 1,000. Even if you go high, and say 6,000, even the youngest Champion would have all of civilized history to draw experience from.
Any self-respecting DM would never, never, never let a dude like that fall to a bunch of PCs. I don't care if 1,000th level and have +10 dancing vorpal sword of sorcerer king slaying. Nope. If you're playing them right, they should never fall. Not picking on you, Mach, just pointing out something that's often overlooked. It's like those parents that work all day and then blame video games for screwing up their kids.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Crunchy bits (gamesystem cogs and gears) without fluffy bits (storyline & setting) makes for a quick hack & slash game. I generally make a very real, interactive world where the characters' actions can have some drastic and unexpected results, by simply running in my head how NPC's would interact with each other as well as with the players. Making a seamless and integrated storyline helps establish how these NPC's would act, IMHO.
I'm sorry, I was probably unclear. I belive fluffy bits are critically important to a game, no doubt. I was just saying we have so many books full of fluffy bits to choose from I would rather see the few pages Dungeon and Dragon has to devote to Dark Sun to be all crunchy bits, to be sure it covered as much as possible and do it right. I imagine most DMs for Dark Sun here have thier own time period and variations the prefer, a new one wasn't somthing I was really looking for, especially in such limited resources. If they come out with a 200+ page book feficated soley to Dark Sun, I'd be interested to see what they do with the timeline and such when they can address everything (or near everything). Especially with the changes in 3.x D&D vs 2nd Edition, there may be some serious changes and a little history rewriting that would need to be done. Hard to do in 30ish pages of a magazine.
Any self-respecting DM would never, never, never let a dude like that fall to a bunch of PCs. I don't care if 1,000th level and have +10 dancing vorpal sword of sorcerer king slaying. Nope. If you're playing them right, they should never fall. Not picking on you, Mach, just pointing out something that's often overlooked. It's like those parents that work all day and then blame video games for screwing up their kids.
This reminds me of an excellent thread in Regdar's Repository: Ten Baseline Assumptions About How the Game is Run. Definitely something that needs to be sorted out before play.
I am taking over a friends FR game for a brief stint (he sent the characters to Athas and I get to run those bits - heh heh). I am not particularly looking forward to explaining to the FR players that their beloved shiny, world-saving magic item tree-characters will not possess the same mysterious resistance to fatality or prized-item-loss as they do in their home game.
No, scratch that. I am looking forward to it. Immensely.
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
I'm sorry, I was probably unclear. I belive fluffy bits are critically important to a game, no doubt. I was just saying we have so many books full of fluffy bits to choose from I would rather see the few pages Dungeon and Dragon has to devote to Dark Sun to be all crunchy bits, to be sure it covered as much as possible and do it right. I imagine most DMs for Dark Sun here have thier own time period and variations the prefer, a new one wasn't somthing I was really looking for, especially in such limited resources. If they come out with a 200+ page book feficated soley to Dark Sun, I'd be interested to see what they do with the timeline and such when they can address everything (or near everything). Especially with the changes in 3.x D&D vs 2nd Edition, there may be some serious changes and a little history rewriting that would need to be done. Hard to do in 30ish pages of a magazine.
Which is why what athas.org is doing is so important. They are able to convert the gamesystem, but cannot use "too much" of the flavor text to use.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Which is why what athas.org is doing is so important. They are able to convert the gamesystem, but cannot use "too much" of the flavor text to use.
That's why I like SJ so much...if I want to write flavor text, I create a new sphere and write til my hearts' content. If I wanted to write such text in DS, I'd probably start on the other side of the Silt Sea and start over with a clean slate.
Which is why what athas.org is doing is so important. They are able to convert the gamesystem, but cannot use "too much" of the flavor text to use.
Fair enough.
I've been reading thier DS3 thing latley and there is some stuff I like (mostly the races) and some I don't (mostly the classes). On the other hand I don't like what I'm seeing so far from the Dungeon/Dragon articles unfortunatley. I may have to work out classes on my own. Again, this is just one mustelid outsider's opinion though.
Anyone know if there will be a DS3.5 from athas.org after the new PsiHB comes out?
Urik Mounted Legionnaire : Human Ftr1, each has an iron lance and 20 iron tipped arrows.
Draji Culler : Human Clr2, each has a MW iron morningstar and spiked bronze breastplate.
Maenad Legionnaire : Maenad Psy3, each has a masterwork iron greatsword and 20 iron tipped arrows.
What's the deal with such low-level NPC's having so much metal? And what's the difference between a bronze and iron weapon/armor?
Back from the dead and bringing their Green Age/Cleansing Wars full plate with them, woo!
Anyone want to join my lynch mob?
We'll leave David Noonan out of it and let him play ignorance if he wants though.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Personally, I think that centaur with the full-on plate is totally wicked-awesome. That's some kick-arse research going on right there, let me tell you.
Bah! Research is overrated...just wait, the next Dungeon DS adventure will have iron golems and trolls!
Dregoth rises with army of dead and overthrows Raam?
Check.
Aztec-a-whatever turns out to be waaaaay more powerful than anyone expected?
Check.
My favorite SK Adroponis escapes from the Black?
Check.
Rikus, Sadira, Neeva, and whoever else is gone from the world?
Check.
So far, so good. Besides, it's set 300 years in the future. 300 years!! Have you ever had a campaign go longer than 50?! I think jumping it that far in the future was a way to avoid stepping on Athas.org's toes, to be honest. I hope.
You know what that says to me? If you reverse engineer it, you get 17 levels of wizards (9th level spells), 17 levels of psion (9th level powers in nu psi?), and a 10 level epic prestige class that gives 5 levels of arcane spells, 5 levels of psionics, and dragon apotheois.
(And the only downside is you have to eat glass, life-drain thousands of people, and suffer temporary insanity!)
:D
How important is having stats for such things? I dunno. I do know though that when I take a beat down in D&D I feel the whole thing was much more fair and take it better if the thing that beat me down had a character sheet rather than the DM just waving thier hands and saying "you loose".
;)
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Actually, the ideas in Dungeon aren't too bad:
Dregoth rises with army of dead and overthrows Raam?
Check.
Aztec-a-whatever turns out to be waaaaay more powerful than anyone expected?
Check.
My favorite SK Adroponis escapes from the Black?
Check.
Rikus, Sadira, Neeva, and whoever else is gone from the world?
Check.
So far, so good. Besides, it's set 300 years in the future. 300 years!! Have you ever had a campaign go longer than 50?! I think jumping it that far in the future was a way to avoid stepping on Athas.org's toes, to be honest. I hope.
I could'nt agree more! So far so good. Although I must admit that I would have liked to see Sadira around as the "protector" of Tyr.
Imagine this:
As Sadira ages she watches all that she worked hard for come undone. She dosen't see anyone rise up that would be able to take her place. Her friends die will she does what magic she can to stay alive as long as she can to protect tyr. She becomes a isolated and alone as the years go by unable to find a good enough replacment and only coming out of her home to battle with anyone that threatens the safety of Tyr. Eventually she comes to the conclusion that no one can protect Tyr as well as she can, and that its continued freedom is paramount to the keeping alive the hope of a Athas without sorceror kings. So she undergoes some dark ritual that makes her immortal(but not undeath) so that she can always stay around to protect Tyr. Now 100 years or so after she performs this ritual no one on the council of tyr dare does anything to upset her or mention any ideas benifical or not that Sadira might put Tyr at risk. Thus becoming Tyrs tyrant subconsiosly(sp?)
Originally posted by Oninotaki
IImagine this:
As Sadira ages she watches all that she worked hard for come undone. She dosen't see anyone rise up that would be able to take her place. Her friends die will she does what magic she can to stay alive as long as she can to protect tyr. She becomes a isolated and alone as the years go by unable to find a good enough replacment and only coming out of her home to battle with anyone that threatens the safety of Tyr. Eventually she comes to the conclusion that no one can protect Tyr as well as she can, and that its continued freedom is paramount to the keeping alive the hope of a Athas without sorceror kings. So she undergoes some dark ritual that makes her immortal(but not undeath) so that she can always stay around to protect Tyr. Now 100 years or so after she performs this ritual no one on the council of tyr dare does anything to upset her or mention any ideas benifical or not that Sadira might put Tyr at risk. Thus becoming Tyrs tyrant subconsiosly(sp?)
That is a fine idea; the hero becomes the villian. I like it.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Aztec-a-whatever turns out to be waaaaay more powerful than anyone expected?
I really don't like this part. The rest is plausable. Unless you play with the idea that the "spirit" of Tectuctikulay somehoe possessed him and remanifested himself in Atzetuk.
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
I don't like those Sorcerer-Kings. "Athasian Dragon" should be a 10 level, epic, transformitive, prestige class. It should require epic arcane casting and epic psionic manifestation, as well as an epic feat (probably requiring Psicraft, Spellcraft, Know(arcana), Know(psionics) all 24+ (as well as the two other feats) that lets you combine them into those... things I can't remember the name of, the old 10th level arcane/psi "spells". This would mean, the most gimp, pitiful, weak-ass Sorcerer-King would have to be 46th level (21 Defiler, 21 Psion +3 more levels in either to get the 3rd feat, +1 for the first level of "Athasian Dragon"). No matter how cool your group of level 20 PCs think they are, they just don't have much chance against somthing like that. Also keep in mind that would be the weakest of them, most would probably be 50th level or higher, Borys & Dreagoth probably passing 60th. From that, we can only assume that Rajaat is probably some obscene level 80 monstrosity.
:D
How important is having stats for such things? I dunno. I do know though that when I take a beat down in D&D I feel the whole thing was much more fair and take it better if the thing that beat me down had a character sheet rather than the DM just waving thier hands and saying "you loose".
;)
Actually, I don't think that a 10-level PrC even cuts it. Which is why I have my Dragon & Avangion writeups. Unfortunately, in about 4 days, it will be taken offline for a while, as I will be moving. But then I'll get it back online shortly thereafter.
I really don't like this part. The rest is plausable. Unless you play with the idea that the "spirit" of Tectuctikulay somehoe possessed him and remanifested himself in Atzetuk.
Actually, that's exactly where I was going to go with it. Tec's high templars decide to make a figurehead and put a crown on his head, unaware that the "crown" is Tec's resurrection ploy. Tec takes over the kid and, BAM! Tec's back in business! Of course, my PCs rarely travel up that way - they seem to like Balic, Urik, and Tyr. They accidentally helped to install a dragon-king in Raam, so they're a little gunshy of that city.
Draj is the closest city for Kurn, barring Eldaarich of course. Knowing that Draj had gotten a new young king, Oronis, who would undoubtably have peirced the ploy of the house of the mind and the templarate of Draj, attempts to convert the young king secretely, using psionics, or going ''undercover'' to the city. The youth grows in preserving power and psionic power, but ultimately learns that he was meant to be a pawn of the House of the Mind, and now thinks he is to become a pawn of Oronis. Secretly, Atzetuk turns from his preserving ways and researches dragon metamorphosis in libraries Oronis told him to stay away from. When his fall is revealed in full, it is too late. Atzetuk is a first stage dragon king, he destroys the house of the mind, and Oronis withdraws to Kurn, overcome with sadness at what he has again failed to accomplish. Kurn becomes even more secluded than before.
Now, the new dragon king embraces the warrior culture that is his, and being unable to grant spells to templars, warriors become even more proheminent than they were, and blood flows once again from atop the Pyramids of Draj...
Of course then you just reply with Power Word : Kill and all is well again!
Farmer 5/Fighter 5/Psychic Warrior 10/Psion 20/Wizard 20/Dragon Prestige Class (real) 4 (always figured 22 was a bit weak for this guy).
That's 64 levels - and the requirements for my version of the (real) Dragon Prestige class are nasty. Add to this the fact that the guy has limitless resouces, an entire city-state at his command, and literally thousands of followers, PCs would be hard-pressed to take him down. I have similar stats for the other SKs.
I remember one time I "accidently" left these NPC sheets out when I went to get food. After that, the PCs stopped trying to take these guys on head-to-head and started working behind the scenes, thwarting plans but trying not to draw too much attention.
Really, Athas should be more about surviving than gaining levels or working for the greater good. Oh, there might be a plot in there, and intrigue as well, but the majority of the time, the PCs are worried about living past the next sunset.
Man! This world is fun!
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Centaurs!
Back from the dead and bringing their Green Age/Cleansing Wars full plate with them, woo!
Centaurs... hum... I though so, but it seem, while I was reading that it is Hammanu himself! If it is so, it's even more pathetic, he doesnt look like what he should look like (PP).
Come on Grummore, don't risk the annurism, make some fun at it, let it go, and move on buddy.
Originally posted by Ground_State Johnny
That is a fine idea; the hero becomes the villian. I like it.
Thanks:D
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
For me, 3e opens up huge opportunity to make the SKs true butt-stompers. Hamanu, for example, I had set up similar to this:
Farmer 5/Fighter 5/Psychic Warrior 10/Psion 20/Wizard 20/Dragon Prestige Class (real) 4 (always figured 22 was a bit weak for this guy).
That's 64 levels - and the requirements for my version of the (real) Dragon Prestige class are nasty. Add to this the fact that the guy has limitless resouces, an entire city-state at his command, and literally thousands of followers, PCs would be hard-pressed to take him down. I have similar stats for the other SKs.
I've been thinking of:
Commoner 3/Psychic Warrior 15/Wizard 18/Justicar 10/Warshaper 5/Psychic Weapon Master 10/*Dragon (stage 1) 9
* Hamanu has a modified version of the Dragon Metamorphosis, which only Rajaat understands fully. As such, he fears what he will become. He is also unique in that he passes from stage to stage automatically without the need of casting each stages' Epic Spells. He automatically gathers the requisite energy when using his psionics and/or magic. For every 5 levels Hamanu advances, the next level he increases must be the next level of the Dragon Metamorphosis Prestige Class he is in (or the next stage if he has reached level 10 of the current stage).
Which comes to 70 levels - Basically, I'm having Hamanu attempting to gain levels in other classes, to attempt to slow down his Dragon development. A few of those come from the Complete Warrior, or Mind's Eye, which were Prestige Classes I felt "fit" with Hamanu, but I'm not 100% certian yet if I like them. And, of course, my own Dragon writeup.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
Actually, I liked the idea someone posted earlier about Atzetuk getting tutelage from Oronis, but then turning to the ''dark side''. I think that makes great Dark Sun Drama. It also makes some sense.
Draj is the closest city for Kurn, barring Eldaarich of course. Knowing that Draj had gotten a new young king, Oronis, who would undoubtably have peirced the ploy of the house of the mind and the templarate of Draj, attempts to convert the young king secretely, using psionics, or going ''undercover'' to the city. The youth grows in preserving power and psionic power, but ultimately learns that he was meant to be a pawn of the House of the Mind, and now thinks he is to become a pawn of Oronis. Secretly, Atzetuk turns from his preserving ways and researches dragon metamorphosis in libraries Oronis told him to stay away from. When his fall is revealed in full, it is too late. Atzetuk is a first stage dragon king, he destroys the house of the mind, and Oronis withdraws to Kurn, overcome with sadness at what he has again failed to accomplish. Kurn becomes even more secluded than before.
Now, the new dragon king embraces the warrior culture that is his, and being unable to grant spells to templars, warriors become even more proheminent than they were, and blood flows once again from atop the Pyramids of Draj...
That came from one of my campaigns I ran a few years ago. Once Oronis had freed and shielded Atzetuk's mind he found himself rather unhappy at being a pawn of the templars and the house of the mind. He played along for awhile then turned on everyone who had dared to use him. He actually believed he was Tek's son and had anyone who said otherwise killed about the same time he wiped out the VA. (The PCS were go betweens for the VA, Oronis, and Atzetuk). Shortly after the PCs took to the desert they heard how Atzetuk had "removed" all the ranking members of the House of the Mind and the templars. He hadn't started his metamorphasis into a dragon though. He was also leaving Oronis alone for the time being, feeling he wasn't yet powerful enough to take him out, but one day....
As for Star Wars, I'll admit I wasn't much into it so I didn't know they had anything like this going on there. None of my PCs mentioned it either. /shrug
Originally posted by Oninotaki
I could'nt agree more! So far so good. Although I must admit that I would have liked to see Sadira around as the "protector" of Tyr.
Imagine this:
As Sadira ages she watches all that she worked hard for come undone. She dosen't see anyone rise up that would be able to take her place. Her friends die will she does what magic she can to stay alive as long as she can to protect tyr. She becomes a isolated and alone as the years go by unable to find a good enough replacment and only coming out of her home to battle with anyone that threatens the safety of Tyr. Eventually she comes to the conclusion that no one can protect Tyr as well as she can, and that its continued freedom is paramount to the keeping alive the hope of a Athas without sorceror kings. So she undergoes some dark ritual that makes her immortal(but not undeath) so that she can always stay around to protect Tyr. Now 100 years or so after she performs this ritual no one on the council of tyr dare does anything to upset her or mention any ideas benifical or not that Sadira might put Tyr at risk. Thus becoming Tyrs tyrant subconsiosly(sp?)
I even found an official 2nd edition spell that she could have used to extend her life. Its a 10th level spell in Defilers & Preservers called Life Extension. It extends the casters maximum life expectancy by a kings age.
Originally posted by Oninotaki
I even found an official 2nd edition spell that she could have used to extend her life. Its a 10th level spell in Defilers & Preservers called Life Extension. It extends the casters maximum life expectancy by a kings age.
Of course, in order to cast those spells, she would have had to be an Advanced Being..... Like a Dragon or Avangion, but who needs to think about those pesky details, eh?
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Of course, in order to cast those spells, she would have had to be an Advanced Being..... Like a Dragon or Avangion, but who needs to think about those pesky details, eh?
Well the real kicker is why would an advanced being need to cast that spell in the 1st place? You become immortal once you are are an advanced being. Not only that but the caster is the only person that can be the target of the spell, so its not like he would cast it on his minions so that they could live longer. The only advanced being I could see actually having a use for this spell is an elemental cleric before they reach full elemental status. However since its a wizard spell and not an elemental spell they cant cast it. Was the spell meant for level 20/20/20 wizard/cleric/psion?
This opens the door to a whole lot of weird
. Like could level 20/20 wizard/psions cast level ten spells aside from the advanced being metamopasis spell? If so then this could go a little way towards explaing kalaks power if he wasnt a dragon.Anyway I just always figured that becoming a Sun Wizard gave Sadira access to level 10 magic while the sun was up.