When will Key of Destiny and the Bestiary be out?
What's the page count for them?
How about the editing? Will it be as sucky as in AoM (and partially DLCS)?
Will the art be DLCS or AoM quality (latter definitely worse)?
Thanks.
I'll leave opinions as to quality up to you and our other customers, though you can get an idea based on our web previews on Dragonlance.com.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Jamie - on the issue of quality (I have to agree somewhat with Mula but, unlike him I understand that Sovereign are very much a start up)
I would like for people to not try to rush Jamie and them into releasing things (although I am very eager to see new stuff come out) because, if you rush things you are definitely going to make mistakes.
I say keep up the good work.
Originally posted by kendernbabe
I would like for people to not try to rush Jamie and them into releasing things (although I am very eager to see new stuff come out) because, if you rush things you are definitely going to make mistakes.
But I want it NOOOOOOOOOW. ;)
Originally posted by Mula
When will Key of Destiny and the Bestiary be out?
I'm not even going to go here again...
Originally posted by Mula
How about the editing? Will it be as sucky as in AoM (and partially DLCS)?
Do you even know what you are talking about? I personally have done an errata (albeit unofficially) for both books. And I can say without a doubt, hands down, that AoM is edited light years better than the DLCS. (although I will concede that AoM has a really bad Table of Contents ;))
Originally posted by Mula
Will the art be DLCS or AoM quality (latter definitely worse)?
Hmm...I know art is completely personally objective...so I hope you don't take offense when I hope you don't get your wish. :D
Although I like alot of the art in the DLCS as well...in my opinion the art in the AoM is much, much better on the whole.
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Another question(For Chris or any of the other Sov Press writers.): I may be starting Key of Destiny with 3 PC's instead of 4(The 4th character is going to join in later on in the storyline.). Are the PC's going to get slaughtered with only 3 on their team at first ?
No, but you may want to have an NPC help them out, or scale the encounters down a little. They should be OK as they are, but keep in mind what classes they have and where they're missing certain skills. If two are fighters and one is a wizard, then you have no clerics or mystics and no rogues, so any encounter with undead may be deadlier and traps aren't going to be as easy to defeat.
On the other hand, three PCs get more XP out of an encounter designed for 4 PCs than 4 do!
In my game, the party has six PCs: a diviner, a fighter, a fighter/rogue, a fighter/ranger, a favored soul (from the Miniatures Handbook), and an akashic/swashbuckler (the akashic's from Arcana Unearthed and the swashbuckler's from the Complete Warrior). They also have Cole, the sorcerer from the Sylvan Key with them, which makes for 7 characters. I have to beef up the opposition a lot, but then I'm also consciously handing out a ton of XP. I've decided I want the campaign to advance fairly swiftly and it's working out very well so far.
Cheers,
Cam
~ Human Barbarian
~ Half-Elf Rogue
~ Human Wizard
...What would you reccommend that I add to the group or is it ok as is ? Noone wanted to play a cleric.
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
What would you reccommend that I add to the group or is it ok as is ? Noone wanted to play a cleric.
In this adventure, you really need a cleric. Mystic with the Sun domain might work, too, but... yeah. Give them an NPC if you need to.
Cheers,
Cam
Of the three, they have a Kender Rogue, Human(i think) Cleric, and an Elf Battle Sorceror(from UA).
When the 4th player cant make it, Ill havea fighter NPC join the group.
Of course that is only my tabletop game with my friends. I also plan on trying to run the same campaign over on the Real D&D/D20 adventures board. Doing it on those boards offers a much different experiance, especially for Role Playing, than with my original group of frie4nds. So if any of you want to join that, keep an eye out for it. I'll try to get it started in the next couple weeks, maybe even earlier.
(Oh and if I went out of line by advertyising that, Let me know and I'll change it. I'm not very well versed in th rules of these boards in this matter)
Originally posted by Cam Banks
In this adventure, you really need a cleric. Mystic with the Sun domain might work, too, but... yeah. Give them an NPC if you need to.
Cheers,
Cam
Cam,
I just added a Qualinesti elf mystic(NPC) to the group. She has the sun domain so will that be cool ?
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Cam,
I just added a Qualinesti elf mystic(NPC) to the group. She has the sun domain so will that be cool ?
Should be just fine.
One of my players took a mystic with the Sun domain to begin with, but then changed his mind and rewrote the character as a favored soul of Habakkuk. Lost the undead turning ability but I let him choose his known spells from the druid list instead of the cleric list, and his overall combat ability improved enough that he could still deal with undead threats.Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
No, but you may want to have an NPC help them out, or scale the encounters down a little. They should be OK as they are, but keep in mind what classes they have and where they're missing certain skills. If two are fighters and one is a wizard, then you have no clerics or mystics and no rogues, so any encounter with undead may be deadlier and traps aren't going to be as easy to defeat.
On the other hand, three PCs get more XP out of an encounter designed for 4 PCs than 4 do!
In my game, the party has six PCs: a diviner, a fighter, a fighter/rogue, a fighter/ranger, a favored soul (from the Miniatures Handbook), and an akashic/swashbuckler (the akashic's from Arcana Unearthed and the swashbuckler's from the Complete Warrior). They also have Cole, the sorcerer from the Sylvan Key with them, which makes for 7 characters. I have to beef up the opposition a lot, but then I'm also consciously handing out a ton of XP. I've decided I want the campaign to advance fairly swiftly and it's working out very well so far.
Cheers,
Cam
How are you keeping these guys busy with all of the delay with KoD ? Seriously, I would like to know what you have been having them do to keep them from getting to that point where there is one big blank as we wait for the module release ?
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
How are you keeping these guys busy with all of the delay with KoD ? Seriously, I would like to know what you have been having them do to keep them from getting to that point where there is one big blank as we wait for the module release ?
My group's been playtesting the adventure, so there hasn't been any delay. I run a session every other Thursday night for a few hours after work, and occasional weekends for longer periods.
Cheers,
Cam
What do you recommend for the rest of us that are at the end of our chain ?
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Lucky you
What do you recommend for the rest of us that are at the end of our chain ?
Several options.
1. Have them find a way out of the sewers and into Pashin again. There are plenty of ways back up - sewers have many entrances. They can avoid dark knights for a while as you introduce any elements you didn't already use, or you can touch on some of the things that don't get covered by the Sylvan Key. Did Pegrin have any other allies in the town? Where did Cole come from? Did the mayor give the players a reward?
2. Have them leave the elves via the tunnel and find a side-passage that opens into a long-lost complex of dwarven tombs, perhaps the same ones that the ghast came from. Perhaps a large cistern system, or catacombs, or even a sunken pre-Cataclysm ruin built by the elves.
3. Give Dragonlance a short break and then start up again with the release of the module (which will be soon). A few one-shots elsewhere in Krynn to showcase more of the setting for your players, or another world entirely. Then come back to Krynn and carry on where you left off.
That's just a handful of suggestions. Chris might have more, if he's reading...
Cheers,
Cam
Ok, I have a session coming up Friday night. We play every other Friday. Do you think that the sewer portion of the adventure is enough to last 5 hours ?
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Ok, I have a session coming up Friday night. We play every other Friday. Do you think that the sewer portion of the adventure is enough to last 5 hours ?
It could, but you may want to throw in something in there to make it last a little longer. Make sure they meet everything that's in there before they get to the elves. An NPC like Arinol Nightblade could be down there, hunting the PCs, or the dark knights could follow them in, and the PCs have to avoid them as well as the creatures in the pit. It's dark, it's dangerous, there's a lot that can go wrong, and so long as you don't rush through it I think an entire session or two could be made of that part of the chapter.
Cheers,
Cam
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Maybe some in-depth role playing during the part when they meet Shaylan ?
Sure. Whatever works for you. That didn't work for my group, so I had the Dark Knights show up in their settlement and fireball the place, but yeah - roleplaying scenes are nice.
Cheers,
Cam
So basically you had the Dark Knights follow them into the sewers. Did you use the Aranol Nightblade hook as well ?
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
I have a strange feeling that your campaign is combat heavy. ;)
I like my camapigns to be cinematic and full of action and drama. So it's a bit of a mix. Also, we're a bunch of 30-something grognards and dinos who only get a few hours to play each week, so combat ranks highly. Just ask ferratus, he's already worked out that we're old guard types. ;)
So basically you had the Dark Knights follow them into the sewers. Did you use the Aranol Nightblade hook as well ?
No Aranol, but the Dark Knight thing was a real hit. Now they really despise General Dogah.
Cheers,
Cam
The best hook that I can use for getting them back to the surface of Pashin is the fact that they will need some supplies for the adventure ahead.
~~~
~~~
I may get through this session but I am going to need that adventure before next week is out.
~~~
Originally posted by jechambers
Key of Destiny has grown to 176 pages, trade softcover, due out next month. The Bestiary of Krynn is 160 pages in a full-color hardcover and will be released in May.
I'll leave opinions as to quality up to you and our other customers, though you can get an idea based on our web previews on Dragonlance.com.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
So now it has been pushed back to May now ? Last time you guys said April.
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
So now it has been pushed back to May now ? Last time you guys said April.
The release date hasn't been April for a while, dude.
They mentioned sometime last month (late last month I think) that it had been pushed to May (hopefully early May...but I don't think that distinction had been made).
Obviously (at least it seems obvious), there was just something seriously wrong with the book that had to be taken care of. Hopefully it has been, and it's on its way to being published.
The Bestiary of Krynn is 160 pages in a full-color hardcover and will be released in May.
The Bestiary is now scheduled for April 26th.
Originally posted by jechambers
Key of Destiny has grown to 176 pages, trade softcover, due out next month.
Originally posted by cnposner
The Bestiary is now scheduled for April 26th.
I know. We were talking about the Key of Destiny.
Written on April 1st:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jechambers
Key of Destiny has grown to 176 pages, trade softcover, due out next month.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cnposner
The Bestiary is now scheduled for April 26th.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know. We were talking about the Key of Destiny.
I think that by "next month" he meant April. At least, that is what it still says on the www.dragonlance.com website
We can only hope that they really mean it this time. As for the second and third episodes- a distant dream.
Originally posted by cnposner
According to Jamie Chambers, the latest version of KoD has just been submitted for approval to Wizards of the the Coast; and the tentative release date is May 17th.
Note the word tentative. Until we announce a final street date (as we recently did on the Bestiary), don't bank on it. The document is off for approval, but there is no way to determine yet when we'll be ready to go to press.
Once we go to press, however, things should move pretty quickly. We are printing at a fast printer that's in the same city as our warehouse. Once we get a ship date from the printer, we can announce a street date to you guys.
Thanks!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
P.S. CNPOSNER: If you're calling up just so you can post a quote from me on the message board, just ask the question here! I try to visit the boards at least once or twice a day.
the latest version of KoD has just been submitted for approval to Wizards of the the Coast;
Is this latest version going to change everything presented in the online preview and make all of us loyal Dragonlance DM's look like morons to our players ?
~~~
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Is this latest version going to change everything presented in the online preview and make all of us loyal Dragonlance DM's look like morons to our players ?
~~~
You don't need Sovereign Press for that! :D
*runs away*
Seriously, though, any changes at this point would be minor. Probably little touch-ups.
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Is this latest version going to change everything presented in the online preview and make all of us loyal Dragonlance DM's look like morons to our players ?
No.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Is this latest version going to change everything presented in the online preview and make all of us loyal Dragonlance DM's look like morons to our players ?
Damn, dude...so much negativity all the time.
Have some chocolate, drink a beer, smoke a cigarette...do something. Lighten up, be happy, smile, dance, laugh, pet a dog...I don't know, there's got to be something. I worry about ya Loi.
:D
P.S. CNPOSNER: If you're calling up just so you can post a quote from me on the message board, just ask the question here! I try to visit the boards at least once or twice a day.
I have posted several questions on this and other message boards, without receiving any response (not to mention e-mails). I try to use the phone only as a last resort (it costs a lot of money, since I live in England); but it seems to be the only way to wring any information out of you, especially when this involves admitting that products have been set back. No news from SP is bad news.
In any case, I do not phone just so that I can post quotes. I do so chiefly for my own purposes, but also consder it my duty to share the little information I receive.
Originally posted by cnposner
I have posted several questions on this and other message boards, without receiving any response (not to mention e-mails). I try to use the phone only as a last resort (it costs a lot of money, since I live in England); but it seems to be the only way to wring any information out of you, especially when this involves admitting that products have been set back. No news from SP is bad news.
In any case, I do not phone just so that I can post quotes. I do so chiefly for my own purposes, but also consder it my duty to share the little information I receive.
It's not a problem, it just seemed a little strange to see posts on two different message boards within minutes of speaking with you on the phone, as if you were attempting to provide a "scoop" on Sovereign Press news. Everyone also has to understand that as a licensed property, we're not free to say anything we want. There are guidelines set on how and when we communicate release information.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by cnposner
Iut it seems to be the only way to wring any information out of you, especially when this involves admitting that products have been set back. No news from SP is bad news.
I don't know...look on this thread. Just two weeks ago he said "next month."
I think we get decent enough updates on the status. More than they're obligated to tell us. Good luck getting any information like this out of just about any other company.
And what are we suposed to do until may?
I started the sample chapter because it was going to be out in April, now im in the swers runing every encountor in there hoping to extend the chapter 1 or 2 sessions, but 4 weeks its too much, also they are going to be 3rd level now and I dont know if thats ok for the next chapter, and I have been giving less xp because of that same reason.
Originally posted by Calabozo
And what are we suposed to do until may?
Cam gave some good answers to that question on this thread:
Originally posted by Cam
1. Have them find a way out of the sewers and into Pashin again. There are plenty of ways back up - sewers have many entrances. They can avoid dark knights for a while as you introduce any elements you didn't already use, or you can touch on some of the things that don't get covered by the Sylvan Key. Did Pegrin have any other allies in the town? Where did Cole come from? Did the mayor give the players a reward?
2. Have them leave the elves via the tunnel and find a side-passage that opens into a long-lost complex of dwarven tombs, perhaps the same ones that the ghast came from. Perhaps a large cistern system, or catacombs, or even a sunken pre-Cataclysm ruin built by the elves.
3. Give Dragonlance a short break and then start up again with the release of the module (which will be soon). A few one-shots elsewhere in Krynn to showcase more of the setting for your players, or another world entirely. Then come back to Krynn and carry on where you left off.
Just in case you missed it above.
The more you ask for dates, the more likely you are to recieve inaccurate dates. I don't want a date, I just want it to be out.
NOTE: I'm not writing this to insult SP, I'm just trying to stop people from jumping the gun and starting that first chapter when they think KoD will be out in two weeks.
Originally posted by Taskr36
NOTE: I'm not writing this to insult SP, I'm just trying to stop people from jumping the gun and starting that first chapter when they think KoD will be out in two weeks.
Well, that's a relief, because if you hadn't said anything folks might have gone crazy with the lack of things to do, despite helpful suggestions.
Cheers,
Cam
I just feel the best thing to do is to read the first chapter front and back to get a good understanding of everything, and then put it on a shelf until KoD is out. That way people won't have to make things up to fill in while they wait. Even if KoD comes out the day you finish chapter 1 it is still best to take time to read the whole adventure before moving on to chapter 2.
Originally posted by kendernbabe
Jamie - on the issue of quality (I have to agree somewhat with Mula but, unlike him I understand that Sovereign are very much a start up)
I would like for people to not try to rush Jamie and them into releasing things (although I am very eager to see new stuff come out) because, if you rush things you are definitely going to make mistakes.
to be perfectly honest, it has nothing to do with them being a start up.... I haven't seen a well edited DL product since almost the very beginning... Nearly every book has had tons of errors that could have been easily caught if the editor had actually read the book, rather than flip through it or whatever they do... sigh.. you'd think that someone being paid to read dragonlance would actually try to do a good job...
Originally posted by Brimstone
I personally have done an errata (albeit unofficially) for both books.
Brimstone - is your AoM errata available on dragonlance.com? I can't seem to find it.
Thanks
Simon Collins
So I made an encounter outside of Pashin introducing a dwaven fighter NPC (and yet another subplot) and a small thrown in one-shot. I've just been making up light xp/heavy flavor adventures that help my players get a feel for who their charicters are.
My only concerns are how easy will it be to get them back on track when the adventure releases and will they be to high lvl if the thing keeps getting pushed back and I have to keep making up quests.
And to aliviate one of my groups fears, he saw that Amazon has Key of Destiny releasing in JULY! so I'll have to direct him to this board and the release dates posted here. Maybe that'll shut him up :D
I will bet a good amount of money that the module will not be released in May either. CnPosner is not wrong, he is upset. He is giving up his money to these people and trusting them to provide him with the resources he needs to make his game run smoothly. They should care more about getting the product out than trying to pull it back for every little mistake they see and make gamers even more furious.
That module needs to be dropped some time soon so people can continue their games or else what is going to happen is Dragonlance fans are going to find out that the company does not respect their fan base and the fans are going to take their money elsewhere. Not a pretty conclusion but a realistic one.
If it is taking this long why not put another chapter online for the fans. Basically, it is not the fans fault that you are late releasing your product. It is your(Sovereign Press) fault.
~~~
I've said it before, they should put some adventures on the website in PDF format for people to download and print out. These don't need to be climactic or world altering. They just need to be something for people to do. They can be limited to a country like Solamnia or Ergoth. Just give people something.
As it is everyone here just treats ME as the bad guy for being frustrated for SP's poor performance. I'm not complaining because I'm a bad guy. I'm complaining because SP has let me down repeatedly with their bogus release dates.
As well, delays are common in the RPG industry just as it is with movies, books, tv series, and any other form of entertainment media. That is just because in any project you hit snags where it isn't turning out exactly as you planned. Instead you end up with a peice of work that might have to tweaked endlessly, or even completely rewritten to get the format right. Green Ronin has late products. Sword and Sorcery has late products. WotC has late products. That's just the way things are.
I'm afraid I have very little sympathy for people who say that they demand their products out on time or they are somehow being jipped. If you want to play KoD for example, just put it off for awhile. Play other campaigns, play other rpg games, play monopoly or risk. Heck, in case you might have missed it, it is springtime outside even up here in Saskatchewan. Grab some sweats, grab a football or soccer ball, and play some contact sports.
Stop making a moral issue out of entertainment, and grow up a bit so you don't think playing is so damn important.
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
I agree with those that are upset over the blatant lies concerning KoD's release date.
Ahh, so now we've moved on to blatant lies.
I'm sure Jamie will be glad to hear that. I'd hate to think he wasn't thinking he was being as forthright with us as possible about the release dates.
Complaining is fine (to a point), some people need to vent like that. Name-calling is not. It's ridiculous, stupid, rude, and ignorant. You are making blatant, uncalled for statements that call into question Jamie's integrity. I honestly don't see the need for it. Such a statement could only be made out of spite.
This is just the kind of behavior that has gotten two other threads closed. Do we really want it to happen again? Or would we rather have a forum where we can openly, and civilly discuss Krynn and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting?
Originally posted by Shadowalk Nimblefeet
Complaining is fine (to a point), some people need to vent like that. Name-calling is not. It's ridiculous, stupid, rude, and ignorant. You are making blatant, uncalled for statements that call into question Jamie's integrity. I honestly don't see the need for it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Look folks, the thing is this is a business. There are going to be unforseen set-backs and delays. Jamie has stated that the product has been given for approval, so it sounds to me like any delays now are not a part of his nor SP. Even if it was, I would rather have a product that has been delayed that is fantastic than get something that was published before it was truly ready. I think it's safe to assume that we've all played/read/loved the online preview...and that thing was only what? 30 pages? Now imagine that type of quality when the final 160+ page product finaly comes out.
I guess it's just me. I've worked in the video games business on the retail side for years. Over those years I have come to expect and accept delays. 9 out of 10 the delayed product is fantastic. How long did we wait for Diablo 2? How long have we waited now for Half-Life 2 or Doom 3? And everything that has been shown on these two games is great. I agree that it's furstrating, but no amount of name calling or bashing of any sort is going to speed up release.
In the meantime, try playing something else; make up an adventure of how the players met; step from behind the DM screen and let someone else run an adventure; ride a bike; see a movie...there are plenty of options open untill KoD is released.
Complaining is fine (to a point), some people need to vent like that. Name-calling is not.
Which is why this thread is now closed.
Let me make it abundantly clear that this is a Wizards of the Coast forum. Complaints with any Sovereign Press products should be addressed to them directly or on their forum at Dragonlance.com.
This makes the third thread I've closed on Key of Destiny. It has become a point of forum disruption. I highly suggest that you guys address any further complaints elsewhere.
--Drake