Pantheon - Demons & Devils - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Pantheon - Demons & Devils

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Apr 05, 2004 3:31:47 Dear All,

I want to include in one of my Dread Campaigns a sect of some kind of Devil Pantheon (eg. Baalzebul).

What do you think, would you just take Baalzebul as he is into the world of Ravenloft or whould you give him a different name, slight transformation to fit into the Dread Realms.

I wonder if there is already some information on Devils that have been introduced with Ravenloft? (maybe in AD&D books, Fan-fiction sources?).

Any kind of Feedback, Knowledge appreciated.

Thanks.

Greets,
Ismael
#2
zombiegleemax
Apr 05, 2004 6:38:32 Demonprinces and Archdevils are in the Book of Vile Darkness. That'd be a good place to start.
#3
zombiegleemax
Apr 05, 2004 12:17:55 Bear in mind a few things though.

Firstly, Archdevils and Demon Princes are probably careful to avoid Ravenloft. After Vecna managed to get sucked in I'm sure that served as a warning to a lot of powers to give the Demiplane of Dread wide berth.

Secondly, that doesn't necessarily matter. Archfiends are likely in the same boat as gods regarding clerics in Ravenloft. Nobody is even really sure if the gods can sense their worshippers inside the demiplane. It is believed by many (and may actually be true) that all divine spells and powers granted in Ravenloft come from the Dark Powers themselves, not from the actual deities. This is why people like Yagno Petrovna with his false god Zhakata can still get spells. A fiend cult in Ravenloft would also probably get their spells the same way, regardless of who they purport to worship.

Thirdly, anyone evil enough to worship fiends is going be drawing a lot of attention from the Dark Powers anyway, and will be developing some interesting manifestations of their proclivities.
#4
zombiegleemax
Apr 06, 2004 0:35:59 Well the old 2E Van Richten's guide to Fiends might be right up your alley. At a bare minimum it'd help illuminate the (few) feinds generally known to be running around in the RL world and such cool ideas as the Mystik Cage.

Over at Kargatane.com the Children of the Night:"Demons" net book is still up. There is a powerful alkileth that has a "cult" that might fit very nicely with what you are suggesting as well as several other creatures worth a look. The Marasmos (sp?) isn't anywhere near the power level of an Archfiend his cult is pretty durn near impossible to get rid of. Anway, unless you have some epic level plans for the PC to actually *fight* the cult leader I wouldn't worry too much about the stats.

I am personally a big fan of changing the names to protect the guilty. If you do borrow an entity from the BoVD I would recomend giving it your own twists so your PCs won't know exactly what their adversaies nature is. The thing half seen is always creepier than the monster you can analyse down to the last stat point.

-Eric Gorman

PS - Malochio, being a half-fiend (and a/the dukar to boot) might be a good figure to look at. Hykossa was also supposed to have been a dukar. The Gentlman Caller is also of fiendish origen (and Malochio's father...)

PPS - The Monsters Handbook by Legends & Lairs has some good material on customising outsiders including a Prestige class called the godling. It occurs to me that a fiend who wanted to attempt the leap to divinity without interference from enemies, rivals and the powers of the status quo might actually choose to enter Ravenloft. RL is isolated from interference and the fiend might figure it would have the power to leave "when" it achieved diety status. Of course what the DPs might think about that I couldn't guess.
#5
zombiegleemax
Apr 06, 2004 0:36:28
Originally posted by Psionycx
Bear in mind a few things though.

Firstly, Archdevils and Demon Princes are probably careful to avoid Ravenloft. After Vecna managed to get sucked in I'm sure that served as a warning to a lot of powers to give the Demiplane of Dread wide berth.

mmh... that´s interessting. Please let me know where I can read about Vecna and beeing sucked in the Demiplane. Is it in one of the Novels?

It is believed by many (and may actually be true) that all divine spells and powers granted in Ravenloft come from the Dark Powers themselves, not from the actual deities.

Another good hint. I´ve already wondered how those religions with "fake" deities acutally can cast divine spells.

Thirdly, anyone evil enough to worship fiends is going be drawing a lot of attention from the Dark Powers anyway, and will be developing some interesting manifestations of their proclivities.

One of my players want to become a Disciple of Baalzebul and he is already on step 1 on the path of corruption. Becomming a Disciple of Baalzebul will actually cause a failed power check, unless the sacrificed victim is evil but that will give a 10% chance either. Sooo... I made him aware of that already, but you know... I believe this is going to be interessting.

So.. conclusion: It is acutally unlikely that you meet any archdevil and demo princess in the dread realm. However, cults & sects of such could gather and worship ´em. It is unlikely that people native to the dread realms discovered the existance of archdevils completely by themselfs, knowledge of these might have slipped into the demiplane by outlanders.

Greets,
Ismael
#6
zombiegleemax
Apr 06, 2004 6:07:11
Originally posted by Ismael mmh... that´s interesting. Please let me know where I can read about Vecna and being sucked in the Demiplane. Is it in one of the Novels?

No, not in the novels. Vecna made his re-appearance in official D&D game products in the 1990 Greyhawk module WGA4 "Vecna Lives". In 1997, with the Domains of Dread book, he was 'drawn into' the Ravenloft setting along with Kas and together ruled the lands that formed for them, the Burning Peaks cluster. In 1998, the Ravenloft module "Vecna Reborn" described his attempt to leave the lands of the Mists by being 'born again', and in 2000, the mega-module 'Die, Vecna, Die' detailed his escape from Ravenloft, and further adventure in the Greyhawk and Planescape settings, and elevation to his current godhood in the default D&D setting.
#7
zombiegleemax
Apr 06, 2004 10:41:17 Well, the beauty of all this is that you are free to modify virtually any religion that pops up in Ravenloft specifically because they're being back by undefined forces, possibly the Dark Powers.

A "Disciple of Baalzebul" may find themself subject to all kinds of things that the the player did not read about in the BoVD based entirely on the fact Ravenloft doesn't follow the rules of outside powers.

The standing rule is that clerics of external powers who come from other worlds feel a strange "distance" from their deities in Ravenloft. This may be why local religions (like Ezra's, whatever she is) may hold such popularity. It will most certainly mean that worshippers cannot expect direct contact from Archdevils and Demon Princes any more than followers of gods can.

However, HvF raises a good point. There are fiends that are currently captive in Ravenloft. A devil might happily take on a position of cult leader in the name of some Archdevil (but really on it's own behalf). If the Dark Powers will grant the spells and abilities then all it has to do is put on a good show.
#8
zombiegleemax
Apr 07, 2004 1:36:12 Thanx for all your feedback. Much apreciated. I´ll post my slightly changed disciple of darkness class here when i am ready with it.

So long,
Ismael
#9
zombiegleemax
Apr 09, 2004 0:21:19 A good hook might be that someone is dumb enough to summon something big, it realizes just where it is being called to and sends some lesser, though powerful, annoying demon that it has been trying to get rid of to the person instead.

I'm not going to deep into this, just a small spark for you.
#10
zombiegleemax
Apr 09, 2004 5:40:18
Originally posted by Ismael
Dear All,

I want to include in one of my Dread Campaigns a sect of some kind of Devil Pantheon (eg. Baalzebul).

o to the Fiend Folio and look at the demon prestie classes of corruption, possession and (forgets the oher one). They are pretty good and can be applied to any demon that is in Ravenloft. I have a tendency to advance Quasits and minor outsiders to the base prerequisites, add some power rituals (keep a 500 foot reality wrinkle) and fly with it.

Bigger demons arent really needed, just fun.
#11
zombiegleemax
Apr 09, 2004 5:42:21
Originally posted by Grimfondle
o to the Fiend Folio and look at the demon prestie classes

Obviously insert Gs and Ts to try and work out what I really typed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Apr 05, 2004 3:31:47	Dear All, I want to include in one of my Dread Campaigns a sect of some kind of Devil Pantheon (eg. Baalzebul). What do you think, would you just take Baalzebul as he is into the world of Ravenloft or whould you give him a different name, slight transformation to fit into the Dread Realms. I wonder if there is already some information on Devils that have been introduced with Ravenloft? (maybe in AD&D books, Fan-fiction sources?). Any kind of Feedback, Knowledge appreciated. Thanks. Greets, Ismael
#2 zombiegleemax Apr 05, 2004 6:38:32	Demonprinces and Archdevils are in the Book of Vile Darkness. That'd be a good place to start.
#3 zombiegleemax Apr 05, 2004 12:17:55	Bear in mind a few things though. Firstly, Archdevils and Demon Princes are probably careful to avoid Ravenloft. After Vecna managed to get sucked in I'm sure that served as a warning to a lot of powers to give the Demiplane of Dread wide berth. Secondly, that doesn't necessarily matter. Archfiends are likely in the same boat as gods regarding clerics in Ravenloft. Nobody is even really sure if the gods can sense their worshippers inside the demiplane. It is believed by many (and may actually be true) that all divine spells and powers granted in Ravenloft come from the Dark Powers themselves, not from the actual deities. This is why people like Yagno Petrovna with his false god Zhakata can still get spells. A fiend cult in Ravenloft would also probably get their spells the same way, regardless of who they purport to worship. Thirdly, anyone evil enough to worship fiends is going be drawing a lot of attention from the Dark Powers anyway, and will be developing some interesting manifestations of their proclivities.
#4 zombiegleemax Apr 06, 2004 0:35:59	Well the old 2E Van Richten's guide to Fiends might be right up your alley. At a bare minimum it'd help illuminate the (few) feinds generally known to be running around in the RL world and such cool ideas as the Mystik Cage. Over at Kargatane.com the Children of the Night:"Demons" net book is still up. There is a powerful alkileth that has a "cult" that might fit very nicely with what you are suggesting as well as several other creatures worth a look. The Marasmos (sp?) isn't anywhere near the power level of an Archfiend his cult is pretty durn near impossible to get rid of. Anway, unless you have some epic level plans for the PC to actually fight the cult leader I wouldn't worry too much about the stats. I am personally a big fan of changing the names to protect the guilty. If you do borrow an entity from the BoVD I would recomend giving it your own twists so your PCs won't know exactly what their adversaies nature is. The thing half seen is always creepier than the monster you can analyse down to the last stat point. -Eric Gorman PS - Malochio, being a half-fiend (and a/the dukar to boot) might be a good figure to look at. Hykossa was also supposed to have been a dukar. The Gentlman Caller is also of fiendish origen (and Malochio's father...) PPS - The Monsters Handbook by Legends & Lairs has some good material on customising outsiders including a Prestige class called the godling. It occurs to me that a fiend who wanted to attempt the leap to divinity without interference from enemies, rivals and the powers of the status quo might actually choose to enter Ravenloft. RL is isolated from interference and the fiend might figure it would have the power to leave "when" it achieved diety status. Of course what the DPs might think about that I couldn't guess.
#5 zombiegleemax Apr 06, 2004 0:36:28	Originally posted by Psionycx Bear in mind a few things though. Firstly, Archdevils and Demon Princes are probably careful to avoid Ravenloft. After Vecna managed to get sucked in I'm sure that served as a warning to a lot of powers to give the Demiplane of Dread wide berth. mmh... that´s interessting. Please let me know where I can read about Vecna and beeing sucked in the Demiplane. Is it in one of the Novels? It is believed by many (and may actually be true) that all divine spells and powers granted in Ravenloft come from the Dark Powers themselves, not from the actual deities. Another good hint. I´ve already wondered how those religions with "fake" deities acutally can cast divine spells. Thirdly, anyone evil enough to worship fiends is going be drawing a lot of attention from the Dark Powers anyway, and will be developing some interesting manifestations of their proclivities. One of my players want to become a Disciple of Baalzebul and he is already on step 1 on the path of corruption. Becomming a Disciple of Baalzebul will actually cause a failed power check, unless the sacrificed victim is evil but that will give a 10% chance either. Sooo... I made him aware of that already, but you know... I believe this is going to be interessting. So.. conclusion: It is acutally unlikely that you meet any archdevil and demo princess in the dread realm. However, cults & sects of such could gather and worship ´em. It is unlikely that people native to the dread realms discovered the existance of archdevils completely by themselfs, knowledge of these might have slipped into the demiplane by outlanders. Greets, Ismael
#6 zombiegleemax Apr 06, 2004 6:07:11	Originally posted by Ismael mmh... that´s interesting. Please let me know where I can read about Vecna and being sucked in the Demiplane. Is it in one of the Novels? No, not in the novels. Vecna made his re-appearance in official D&D game products in the 1990 Greyhawk module WGA4 "Vecna Lives". In 1997, with the Domains of Dread book, he was 'drawn into' the Ravenloft setting along with Kas and together ruled the lands that formed for them, the Burning Peaks cluster. In 1998, the Ravenloft module "Vecna Reborn" described his attempt to leave the lands of the Mists by being 'born again', and in 2000, the mega-module 'Die, Vecna, Die' detailed his escape from Ravenloft, and further adventure in the Greyhawk and Planescape settings, and elevation to his current godhood in the default D&D setting.
#7 zombiegleemax Apr 06, 2004 10:41:17	Well, the beauty of all this is that you are free to modify virtually any religion that pops up in Ravenloft specifically because they're being back by undefined forces, possibly the Dark Powers. A "Disciple of Baalzebul" may find themself subject to all kinds of things that the the player did not read about in the BoVD based entirely on the fact Ravenloft doesn't follow the rules of outside powers. The standing rule is that clerics of external powers who come from other worlds feel a strange "distance" from their deities in Ravenloft. This may be why local religions (like Ezra's, whatever she is) may hold such popularity. It will most certainly mean that worshippers cannot expect direct contact from Archdevils and Demon Princes any more than followers of gods can. However, HvF raises a good point. There are fiends that are currently captive in Ravenloft. A devil might happily take on a position of cult leader in the name of some Archdevil (but really on it's own behalf). If the Dark Powers will grant the spells and abilities then all it has to do is put on a good show.
#8 zombiegleemax Apr 07, 2004 1:36:12	Thanx for all your feedback. Much apreciated. I´ll post my slightly changed disciple of darkness class here when i am ready with it. So long, Ismael
#9 zombiegleemax Apr 09, 2004 0:21:19	A good hook might be that someone is dumb enough to summon something big, it realizes just where it is being called to and sends some lesser, though powerful, annoying demon that it has been trying to get rid of to the person instead. I'm not going to deep into this, just a small spark for you.
#10 zombiegleemax Apr 09, 2004 5:40:18	Originally posted by Ismael Dear All, I want to include in one of my Dread Campaigns a sect of some kind of Devil Pantheon (eg. Baalzebul). o to the Fiend Folio and look at the demon prestie classes of corruption, possession and (forgets the oher one). They are pretty good and can be applied to any demon that is in Ravenloft. I have a tendency to advance Quasits and minor outsiders to the base prerequisites, add some power rituals (keep a 500 foot reality wrinkle) and fly with it. Bigger demons arent really needed, just fun.
#11 zombiegleemax Apr 09, 2004 5:42:21	Originally posted by Grimfondle o to the Fiend Folio and look at the demon prestie classes Obviously insert Gs and Ts to try and work out what I really typed.