I'm kinda torn with the whole "can only be illusionists" thing in the first box set though, felt like they were trying to throw gnomes in even though they were dead, but I stuck with it and had most of my npc halflings use nature based illusions instead of the usual weird gnome stuff.
Also, I'm tempted to find some way in D20 to not allow rhulisti to take any divine, arcane, or psionic type class.
Good luck to me, hehe.
I guess ultimately you can allow any race to be any class, but then make it to where it is rare and reflect that in their racial bonuses, sorta like the way it is now.
Do I have a problem with feral halflings learning to become wizards? Not really, it's going to be extremely rare though.
There's also Nok to consider - another good reason to allow them to be wizards.
(Not going into the Ktandeo thing - that's just silly).
This shouldn't be a inconsistency thread. :P
Yes, I know I put it down in the base thread, but you can torture me later for that, hehe.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Dawn, don't make me send my mini kreen at you.
Are wetas climbing into people's beds more sinister than I thought? Is New Zealand the first step in the iminent Kreen Invasion?
Originally posted by Hill Giant
Is New Zealand the first step in the iminent Kreen Invasion?
Who knows what you crazy hobbits are planning sometimes.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Can Halflings use magic? Discuss.
As others have said - any race can become any class in 3e. Simple as that. I never cared for the idea that only certian races can be certian classes anyway - in any game system.
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
I believe all races could aspire to learn magic. The problem w/ Halflings is they are the reason Rajaat choose Humans to be wizards. They just couldn't do it well enough or at all. This could be some sort of Athasian Halfling psycology though. As a culture they may be distrustful of wizardry as a whole as it did come about after the destruction of there great society.
Yeah, that's the issue though. If halflings are as good as humans at magic, it doesn't really work. Mechanically, this has to be represented. Of course, humans have a bonus feat and extra skill points, which would make them slightly better. Also, their free favored class allows them to become psions/wizards with greater ease. I even added the Arcane Prodigy feat from FR into my setting, but with Human as prerequisite. But even then, those are small advantages.
If those are the only things that kept the halflings from becoming wizards, then it seems like a bad idea not to have them become the champions. Even if halflings were culturally against magic, which at that time I don't see why they would be, Rajaat only needed 15 individuals, though I agree less candidates will mean less potential for truly powerful disciples...
Still, seems a bit weak for my tastes... I'll think more about this... Anybody has a good idea?
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Hmm....It seems this one's got the consensus vote. So now we move on to the much more important question: Can Dwelves use magic?
No, but Dwarlings can...
/me runs
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
I believe all races could aspire to learn magic. The problem w/ Halflings is they are the reason Rajaat choose Humans to be wizards. They just couldn't do it well enough or at all. This could be some sort of Athasian Halfling psycology though. As a culture they may be distrustful of wizardry as a whole as it did come about after the destruction of there great society.
Even if 3e allows any race to be any class, I say: dont forget in what setting your playing. In DS Halflings are not suppose to be able to cast wizard spells. and like Cyrus9a said above: Rajaat chose the humans as champions for that same reason. But if a DM was to allow it anyway. At least do so that they cant become epic wizards, that level of magic would be beyond them, thence the reason for Rajaat in chosing humans for its champions would still be logical in your campaing.
Well, before implementing somekind of drawback on halflings (and perhaps dwarves) casting arcane spells, I would simply point out that there is some precedent for this in d20, with the Midnight Campaign setting.
(BTW, really cool setting. Think of Middle Earth, but Sauron won. Well no, actually Melkor won and the Valar were prevented from ever reaching middle earth again.... anyways... check it out if you can)
Anyways, in Midnight, dwarves have resistance to magic (as standard D&D dwarves) but also have less mana when they use feats and/or classes that allow them to use magic.
Even though I'm sure D&D purists won't even want to hear from this, perhaps something similar could be used here? For exemple, races with a bonus on saves against magic could have a penalty to caster level when using arcane magic... Or perhaps something like the opposite of the Arcane prodigy feat:
A halfling and dwarf would have his arcane caster ability score considered two points lower for the purpose of determining bonus spells and spell DCs.
Actually I think I like the latter. Added to the fact that humans have the bonus feat and skill points, it could give the insentive required for Rajaat to favor humans instead, seeking the optimal champions.
Just a thought... though I think it might make it in my conversion...
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
Well, before implementing somekind of drawback on halflings (and perhaps dwarves) casting arcane spells, I would simply point out that there is some precedent for this in d20, with the Midnight Campaign setting.
(BTW, really cool setting. Think of Middle Earth, but Sauron won. Well no, actually Melkor won and the Valar were prevented from ever reaching middle earth again.... anyways... check it out if you can)
Melkor being Sauron before he was Sauron?
Haven't read the Simalarian(sp?) yet, but plan too.
Anyways, in Midnight, dwarves have resistance to magic (as standard D&D dwarves) but also have less mana when they use feats and/or classes that allow them to use magic.
A halfling and dwarf would have his arcane caster ability score considered two points lower for the purpose of determining bonus spells and spell DCs.
Actually I think I like the latter. Added to the fact that humans have the bonus feat and skill points, it could give the insentive required for Rajaat to favor humans instead, seeking the optimal champions.
Hmmm, I think I like this.
I would limit the penalty to arcane casting classes only though.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
I have halfling wizards, but they are very shunned from normal halfling society. Normal halflings have hundreds of strange taboo-like pretenses about wizards, the biggest one being that wizards eat their own to power their spells. They take on the role of a witch-docter from Africa who were also generally shunned out of fear, but not hated or hunted down. They are also not allowed by other halfings to teach arcane magic to anyone else directly. Should a halfling seek to become a wizard, he must learn slowly by observing the mage (who can only intruct indirectly or discretely).
That's actually a good point and might be a better way of doing it.
Keeps with the whole halfling culture nicely, or at least the way I see their culture.
As for the Silmarillion, its difficult to read according to most people, but I read it 3 times, and loved each one more and more! Melkor, also called Morgoth (litterally, the black enemy of the world) is the ''god'' that turned to evil. Sauron is a ''power'' that turned to serve him and become is lieutenant. The other ''gods'' eventually threw off Melkor, but Sauron escaped their wrath, and ends up pretty much taking his place as the ''dark lord'' later on.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
As for the Silmarillion, its difficult to read according to most people, but I read it 3 times, and loved each one more and more! Melkor, also called Morgoth (litterally, the black enemy of the world) is the ''god'' that turned to evil. Sauron is a ''power'' that turned to serve him and become is lieutenant. The other ''gods'' eventually threw off Melkor, but Sauron escaped their wrath, and ends up pretty much taking his place as the ''dark lord'' later on.
IIRC (it's been years since I read my copy of the Silmarillion - great book, but it was written to be like a history book, so it's pretty challenging to read), Morgoth (or Melkor, whatever) was the Dark God, and Sauron along with all the other Balrogs (of which Sauron was "top dog") were pretty much the equivalent to the Vaiar (sp?) (ie: Wizards, like Gandalf & Saruman) in power. Sauron later tipped the balance into his favor with his Ring (or something like that). Gawd, it's been forever since I read that book.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
Sure, it is good flavor, and is what I do with my halfling wizards (there are some in my campaigns, ever since I read the Verdant Passage). However, at the Time of Magic, I doubt this cultural fear of wizards would have been true. Anyways, Rajaat would have welcomed those shunned halflings and thaught them himself. So the problem is whole. You would pretty much need somekind of mechanical reason, otherwise it doesn't really makes much sense.
Just because a few halflings can become wizards, that wouldn't change the fact that Rajaat saw that humans were better at it, hence their bigger numbers, and consider them for his champions, since he didn't want to taint halflings anymore than they are or put all the blood of the Cleansing Wars on their hands.
Melkor, also called Morgoth (litterally, the black enemy of the world) is the ''god'' that turned to evil.
Ok, forgot that was Morgoth's other name.
Midnight should be a pretty cool setting then.
Saw another that wasn't D20, it was it's own system and basically the apocalypse had come about and Satan won, it's now up to devil/angel crossbreed PCs to bring the world back to balance.
Sauron is a ''power'' that turned to serve him and become is lieutenant. The other ''gods'' eventually threw off Melkor, but Sauron escaped their wrath, and ends up pretty much taking his place as the ''dark lord'' later on.
Yeah, remember that thanks to Blind Guardian and friends that know more about ME than me, hehe.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
I agree its not always needed, but I don't see the halflings saying no, since Rajaat had halfling servants and guards. Clearly, some supported him, but there was a reason why they were not chosen as champions.
The point I brought up should be good enough.
The halflings might have said teach us, and Rajaat said no!
He simply saw that if he did that they might lose who they are and become tainted and therefore kill the whole reason why he was doing this in the first place.
Umm, the Silmarillion, yeah. Tolkien's greatest book that never was. It is a beautiful book but you need to go to the History of Middle Earth series to read the proper ending coz Chris Tolkien sorta butchered it. Oh well. Elen sila lumenn omentielvo and all that...
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
The point I brought up should be good enough.
The halflings might have said teach us, and Rajaat said no!
He simply saw that if he did that they might lose who they are and become tainted and therefore kill the whole reason why he was doing this in the first place.
Hmm... this I missed, but I like it. It does differ from the original explanations, but that was based on 2e logic of non wizard halflings. Really like it actually.
Just a quick note however, a bit off topic, but humans would still have to get some edge at being wizards. In my conversion, I made the Arcane Prodigy feat a prerequisite: Human feat.
Just a thought.
Originally posted by Kamelion
Shei, if you use something like this [Midnight's magic system] in your conversion I'd love to see it. It would be a great way to represent defiling magic as stronger than preserving magic too...
ΒΈ
Umm, not really. It could be done, though its a bit far from d20 IMO, and indeed I'm not really sure the ''mana'' progression of channellers and wizards is really balanced in that system, nor do I think the ''magic nodes'' (not sure that's the real term) for Item creation are appropriate for Dark Sun. Also not sure about what you mean when you say it could represent the difference between Defiling and Preserving.
Umm, the Silmarillion, yeah. Tolkien's greatest book that never was. It is a beautiful book but you need to go to the History of Middle Earth series to read the proper ending coz Chris Tolkien sorta butchered it. Oh well. Elen sila lumenn omentielvo and all that...
Hmm... my elvish is a little rusty
though actually I speak some Sindarin, and can fully write in elvish letters (mode of Valinor, not beleriand though...)) Oh: Quenya, that's why: ''A star shines on the hour of our meeting''. That's nice. 
Anyways, I'll have to look for that original ending thing...
Namarie
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
The point I brought up should be good enough.
The halflings might have said teach us, and Rajaat said no!
He simply saw that if he did that they might lose who they are and become tainted and therefore kill the whole reason why he was doing this in the first place.
I like this and will mix it with what Mach 2.5's fluff about halfling wizards. I will also like to add that I don't think halflings really took up magic untill after rajaat was banished, but thats just my opinion on the matter.
Also not sure about what you mean when you say it could represent the difference between Defiling and Preserving.
Well, I was really just thinking about the way it limits magic for most characters or classes yet offers a series of feats etc that balance this out. The variable power level just made me think of applying it to defilers/preservers. I actually wasn't really thinking of anything beyond this, certainly not all the other weird nodes and stuff. Just some idle thoughts, and ones I had better drop in case that kank catches wind of this... ;)
I also quite like Nyt's suggestion that some halflings came to Rajaat for tuition and he said no. Ties in nicely with Rajaat's desire to maintain the purity of all things Blue. Doesn't "Into the Swamp" feature a halfling who is hunting for a lost citadel of Rajaat?
(Shei, Valinorean mode is way cool - but I will steer clear of this topic on these boards as it is a serious obsession of mine. Hmmm...)
Originally posted by Kamelion
(Shei, Valinorean mode is way cool - but I will steer clear of this topic on these boards as it is a serious obsession of mine. Hmmm...)
Yay! I'm not alone! :D
Anyways, but to our one and only non-tolkien setting!
According to Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs there are halfling clerics and druids. Same goes for the cannibal halflings.
I think the ancient Rhulisti also had druids. Wasn't it them who changed the color of the sun? Seems a bit beyond the power of the life-shapers.
Originally posted by (Psi)SeveredHead
Why wouldn't the rhulisti have divine spellcasters?
According to Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs there are halfling clerics and druids. Same goes for the cannibal halflings.
I think the ancient Rhulisti also had druids. Wasn't it them who changed the color of the sun? Seems a bit beyond the power of the life-shapers.
Because they revered life itself and nothing else: They were fascinated in all aspect of life and natural creation thence their strong link in Life-shaping or should I say: mastery in life-shaping. They were not mere life-shapers of mondaine tools, they were master: just open your Book of Artifact of Athas and read all the bizarre artifact created during the Blue age and you'll see what I mean.
There were elemental clerics ONLY. and I'm not sure about Druids: dont recal reading there were any in the Blue Age. If so they were probably very rare. Even today there are only one known called The Bird Master living in Thamasku.
Their knowledge in life itself was so great they could indeed create an artifact(Pristine tower) capable of twarting the building-blocks of the sun's composition.
Nah! Rajaat is right about one thing..... the world belong to the Rhul-Thaun.
Should a halfling somehow become a defiler, his kin kill him very quickly.
My interpretation, from the PP, is that halflings can use arcane magic, but they refuse to kill anything
Rather makes them outcasts in a different light then, since halflings in general have no compunctions about killing anything. They hunt and kill anything they can take down, most especially player characters (yes, they have a special affinity for non DM controlled people in their world ;)). To take on a kind of vow of not killing would probably get the mage-to-be branded as a bit of a loon.
Most of my halfling mages are neutral or evil preservers. Those who turn to defiling loose the tribe's respect and earn its enimity; they are hunted and must become true outcasts. Halfling preservers are shunned, forced to live just outside the villages, but they are also respected for their abilities and knowledge as well, and oftentimes take on the role of silent advisor to the clan's chieftan.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I like this idea. It's similar to one I had thought of when visualizing how Halfing Wizards could exist.
Agreed.
Mach rules! :D
/me puts his pom poms down
Mach rules!
Yay for me!
I even have my own official cheerleader!
In summation: Eat good, disintegrate bad.
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
''magic nodes'' (not sure that's the real term) for Item creation.
It's a Power Nexus, I'll be DM-ing a Midnight game soon so if you ever need more useless information on it, just let me know.
P.