Crackpot Theories

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

beyowulf

Apr 07, 2004 11:19:23
Something odd occured to me. Has anyone considered how Rajaat managed to get so powerful while imprisoned in the Hollow? What if, Rajaat somehow connected himself to the Pristine Tower, and had it feeding him energy during his incarceration there. He would've kept growing stronger and stronger until finally his seals would've no longer been able to hold him and he would've escaped by himself. I also think a similar thing happened with Hamanu. Rajaat needed a replacement Champion, but Manu wasn't really strong enough. So Rajaat cast an altered version of the Defiler Metamorphosis spell on him, and attached a mystical conduit that connect Manu to the energies of the Pristine Tower. The spell could've have been a lower powered one, but one that worked over thousands provided it received energy from the Pristine Tower.

Thoughts?
#2

zombiegleemax

Apr 07, 2004 11:39:51
Yep, that is pretty crackpot ;)

I don't think that there is any basis in canon to support either of those ideas (I could be wrong, however) but nevertheless I like your ideas.
#3

dawnstealer

Apr 07, 2004 12:02:18
I believe Rajaat's power was actually reduced by being imprisoned. Think about that and it gives you an idea how he was able to eliminate races from Athas.
#4

beyowulf

Apr 07, 2004 12:28:48
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
I believe Rajaat's power was actually reduced by being imprisoned. Think about that and it gives you an idea how he was able to eliminate races from Athas.

Well okay, but Rajaats was taking out SKs like they're were nothing when he escaped. Androphinis, Abalach-Re and Tectuktitlay(sp?) are gone in a flash, (well okay, I suppose they were taken back into the Hollow with him) And these were some of the guys that imprisoned him in the first place.(Granted it probably wasn't easy the first time either.) So it seems to me that he at least gained some power while he was out.

Though what do you think about him gaining all his power from the Pristine Tower in the first place?
#5

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Apr 07, 2004 12:43:12
Originally posted by beyowulf
Well okay, but Rajaats was taking out SKs like they're were nothing when he escaped. Androphinis, Abalach-Re and Tectuktitlay(sp?) are gone in a flash, (well okay, I suppose they were taken back into the Hollow with him) And these were some of the guys that imprisoned him in the first place.(Granted it probably wasn't easy the first time either.) So it seems to me that he at least gained some power while he was out.

Though what do you think about him gaining all his power from the Pristine Tower in the first place?

Actually, I'd say that the Revolt was a surprise to Rajaat. They caught him off-guard, which helped them win the first time. It's very possible that Rajaat could kill a Champion individually with ease, from the time he made them Champions on - something to ensure (in his eyes) that he was safe from them. I'd have to go with Dawnstealer on this one that Rajaat's power was weakened while in the Hollow. However, upon being released, he probably had a spell ready to achieve his next step towards "godhood", the ripping of clouds to be made into his flesh around his bones.

This, of course, leads to a personal theory of mine, that the Rain paraelement isn't quite in the same boat as the regular elements - yes, it's been fading, but Rajaat's plan has been to bring the Blue Age back, which would require a lot of rain. He probably has made an alliance with that paraelement himself as a result (or, at teh very least, knows how to use it). The Rain paraelement wouldn't mind if Rajaat returned.... and maybe nudges it's clerics (subconsciously?) to helping Rajaat succeed?
#6

beyowulf

Apr 07, 2004 13:31:24
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Actually, I'd say that the Revolt was a surprise to Rajaat. They caught him off-guard, which helped them win the first time. It's very possible that Rajaat could kill a Champion individually with ease, from the time he made them Champions on - something to ensure (in his eyes) that he was safe from them. I'd have to go with Dawnstealer on this one that Rajaat's power was weakened while in the Hollow. However, upon being released, he probably had a spell ready to achieve his next step towards "godhood", the ripping of clouds to be made into his flesh around his bones.

This, of course, leads to a personal theory of mine, that the Rain paraelement isn't quite in the same boat as the regular elements - yes, it's been fading, but Rajaat's plan has been to bring the Blue Age back, which would require a lot of rain. He probably has made an alliance with that paraelement himself as a result (or, at teh very least, knows how to use it). The Rain paraelement wouldn't mind if Rajaat returned.... and maybe nudges it's clerics (subconsciously?) to helping Rajaat succeed?

Well okay, that makes sense, but could he have cast it so quickly? Or did he have in it on contingency? And where would he get the energy to accomplish all this? Maybe part of my theory was true? He was cut off from the Pristine Tower while in the Hollow, but as soon he got he was able to quickly re-establish his connection, and provide him with the energy needed for his next ascension.
#7

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Apr 07, 2004 13:33:48
Originally posted by beyowulf
Well okay, that makes sense, but could he have cast it so quickly? Or did he have in it on contingency? And where would he get the energy to accomplish all this? Maybe part of my theory was true? He was cut off from the Pristine Tower while in the Hollow, but as soon he got he was able to quickly re-establish his connection, and provide him with the energy needed for his next ascension.

I'd say it's more likely he's tied to the Dark Lens. I think Rajaat probably has advanced beyong the need of life energy from animals or plants. My guess is he feeds off of the elemental/paraelemental planes and/or the sun directly.
#8

beyowulf

Apr 08, 2004 16:32:37
Originally posted by beyowulf
I also think a similar thing happened with Hamanu. Rajaat needed a replacement Champion, but Manu wasn't really strong enough. So Rajaat cast an altered version of the Defiler Metamorphosis spell on him, and attached a mystical conduit that connect Manu to the energies of the Pristine Tower. The spell could've have been a lower powered one, but one that worked over thousands provided it received energy from the Pristine Tower.

Thoughts?

Anyone have any idea on Hamanu? The guy just keeps advancing without the need to the cast the Defiler Metamorphisis Spell. If there anything that shouts Transforming Magic, its definetly the Pristine Tower.

Alternatively, maybe Rajaat cast some High-level version of the Polymorph spell and he's advancing according to the type of creature he is (ala "Savage Species")

Or does anyone have other ideas?
#9

xlorepdarkhelm_dup

Apr 08, 2004 16:49:23
Originally posted by beyowulf
Anyone have any idea on Hamanu? The guy just keeps advancing without the need to the cast the Defiler Metamorphisis Spell. If there anything that shouts Transforming Magic, its definetly the Pristine Tower.

Alternatively, maybe Rajaat cast some High-level version of the Polymorph spell and he's advancing according to the type of creature he is (ala "Savage Species")

Or does anyone have other ideas?

Really, that's only in Rise & Fall, which states that all of the SK's do that, and Rajaat started the metamorphosis process. The arguement was raised to include it into the main timeline, but was rejected. Instead, we're following the timeline of Borys starting the metamorphosis.

However, for my own games, and for the write-up I'll eventually get to on my site, Hamanu will be able to automatically increase (basically, every 5 levels he takes, he must take a level of Dragon - and if he uses magic or psionics, it decreases this timeframe) - simply because I liked the idea - for Hamanu only. And, he's like that due to a tie to the Pristine Tower through the Dark Lens, which was all a grand design by Rajaat to ensure his total victory.
#10

zombiegleemax

Apr 08, 2004 16:57:42
I like the idea of Rajaat sucking energy directing from the paraelemental planes/rain/sun or whatever, no longer needing life energy. Remember when Sun Sadira tried casting magic at her he laughed at her attempts to use HIS magic against him, but her defiling magic worked just fine.

As for the revolt, Lynn Abbey's depiction of it was really good I thought. As soon as they swarmed him, he killed one of them immediately (Pennarin), while most of the rest were casting interference spells Dregoth, Hamanu and Borys chopped, stabbed and pounded his physical body, with Dregoth laying in the deathblow by smashing his head in with a maul.

When he was entombed in the black, it's entirely possible that he spent all that time channeling what energy he had access to into a lot of spells that were set to take effect the moment he broke free. He had contact with his shadow-rhulisti minions, and they could have brokered a deal between him and the elemental planes for an alliance, or he may have been mastering elemental/clean magic at the time of the cleansing wars. Either way, as soon as he broke free I would think a lot of magic was flying around, empowering him and the like. Assuming the blue sun wasn't an illusion, it's entirely possible he was orchestrating something that was returning balance to the elemental planes/rejuvenating them.

Just think about it, apply the rule of conservation of energy. All that defiling sucked energy to make spells, the pristine tower sucked energy for its effects,, that energy has to be somewhere, maybe Rajaat had access to something/where that was allowing him to funnel this power back to where it belonged. An effect was the sun once again burning intensely blue, but once he was locked away again, the influx of new energy ceased and it fell back to burning cooly red.


For the transformations, let's say Dregoth the renegade defiler creates the dragon process, gets approached to become a champion, agrees since it gives him benefits (say the champion template and ability to grant templar spells), rajaat yoinks the spell and maybe casts the first level on everyone, then when he takes Hamanu he casts an altered/perfected version of the spell that results in Hamanu's unique disposition of constantly transforming every time he casts magic, grants templar spells or scorches trolls or whatever.

I think I strayed really far off-topic, but whatever.
#11

Pennarin

Apr 08, 2004 17:14:29
Originally posted by Cap'n Nick
As for the revolt, Lynn Abbey's depiction of it was really good I thought. As soon as they swarmed him, he killed one of them immediately (Pennarin), while most of the rest were casting interference spells Dregoth, Hamanu and Borys chopped, stabbed and pounded his physical body, with Dregoth laying in the deathblow by smashing his head in with a maul.

I..ja..sorry, but I'd say I lasted at least a moment!!
-rampant indignation-

Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
However, for my own games, and for the write-up I'll eventually get to on my site, Hamanu will be able to automatically increase (basically, every 5 levels he takes, he must take a level of Dragon - and if he uses magic or psionics, it decreases this timeframe) - simply because I liked the idea - for Hamanu only. And, he's like that due to a tie to the Pristine Tower through the Dark Lens, which was all a grand design by Rajaat to ensure his total victory.

Yeah!
-my usual response to xlor's write-ups-
#12

jihun-nish

Apr 08, 2004 19:38:48
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Really, that's only in Rise & Fall, which states that all of the SK's do that, and Rajaat started the metamorphosis process. The arguement was raised to include it into the main timeline, but was rejected. Instead, we're following the timeline of Borys starting the metamorphosis.

However, for my own games, and for the write-up I'll eventually get to on my site, Hamanu will be able to automatically increase (basically, every 5 levels he takes, he must take a level of Dragon - and if he uses magic or psionics, it decreases this timeframe) - simply because I liked the idea - for Hamanu only. And, he's like that due to a tie to the Pristine Tower through the Dark Lens, which was all a grand design by Rajaat to ensure his total victory.

In Rise & Fall, Hamanu said, more then once, that all DKs were liers. They had all lied to better benefit their own history in the eye of the populace. So the fact that Borys started the metamorphosis spell could be a part of history's lie. Rajaat could be the one( like stated in R & F) but the SKs wouldn't like the poeple to remember him. I know some of you dislike R & F but what if it was the thruth(the hole book)
#13

zombiegleemax

Apr 08, 2004 19:41:54
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
In Rise & Fall, Hamanu said, more then once, that all DKs were liers. They had all lied to better benefit their own history in the eye of the populace.

I interpret that in a different way, like "DEAR GOD HELP ME I'M WRITING A DARK SUN NOVEL AND TSR WILL NOT GIVE ME ANY INFORMATION AND I CAN'T REACH THE ORIGINAL DESIGNERS. WHAT DO I DO?"

But that's just me.
#14

zombiegleemax

Apr 08, 2004 19:55:56
Originally posted by Porkchops
I interpret that in a different way, like "DEAR GOD HELP ME I'M WRITING A DARK SUN NOVEL AND TSR WILL NOT GIVE ME ANY INFORMATION AND I CAN'T REACH THE ORIGINAL DESIGNERS. WHAT DO I DO?"

But that's just me.

Except she wrote a damn good novel, one the original setting designer praised as best representing the setting and theme of Dark Sun
#15

jihun-nish

Apr 08, 2004 20:09:57
Originally posted by Porkchops
I interpret that in a different way, like "DEAR GOD HELP ME I'M WRITING A DARK SUN NOVEL AND TSR WILL NOT GIVE ME ANY INFORMATION AND I CAN'T REACH THE ORIGINAL DESIGNERS. WHAT DO I DO?"

But that's just me.

As a mater of fact.... That's not just you. A lot of you think that way and now that I have read the book myself,( about 25 pages left) I dont see what is so wrong about it. Yes it is true some things are beside the track(as we say in frensh). but I say that 90% of it could be considered canon. The way she made Hamanu write his own version of history(the way he lived it) makes the novel something to consider.

You may(those of you who dont like it) hate the book and put it aside entirelly but the fact is.... its a tsr/WotC/official novel of Darksun. Then again, as a DM you do what ever you like of course. :D
#16

zombiegleemax

Apr 09, 2004 8:25:15
Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree, it's a great read. I'm not bashing the author. You do the best with what you're given!