Inconsistency #1: Does Borys have wings:
Officially: Yes, Borys is a full-blown 30th level dragon with big, burly wings.
Unofficially: Borys was a mutant dragon thanks to his sudden rise in levels due to the Pristine Tower. As such, he does not have wings. Being a powerful wizard and psion, however, Borys can create wings with potions, spells, psionics, and so on pretty much whenever he wants.
Inconsistency #2: Who’s a champion?
Officially: The 16 champions listed in the Wanderer’s Chronicle are the only Champions of Rajaat, any others may have been warriors of Rajaat, or followers, but were not dragons-in-the-making.
Unofficially: There’s probably many unlisted champions, and it’s possible that Kalak was not a true champion, his templars gaining power from the disembodied heads of Sacha and Wyan.
Here’s one we didn’t think of: Dregoth, so the story goes, was on his way to becoming a dragon before he was a champion of Rajaat. How cool would it be if he was actually the inventor of the process? Rajaat may have perfected it, but what if “dragon” were named for “Dregoth?”
Inconsistency #3: The Thri-Kreen Great One.
Officially: we broke a little from canon material here and said that the Kreen Heads were a representation of Oronis (Keltis) traveling back from the future.
Inconsistency #4: How do SKs grant their power? Specifically, do Vortices exist?
Officially: Yes, vortexes were drawn to the massive output of power created by the creation of the Sorcerer Kings by Borys and Pristine Tower. They are connected to all elemental planes and enable an SK to channel energy to their followers, but not use that energy themselves. There are no Vortexes left, so when an SK dies, the vortex dies with them.
Unofficially: Maybe the vortexes are not extinct. It’s possible that a new dragon exactly recreating the spells cast at the Pristine Tower (including the use of the Dark Lens and probably sucking some energy from the sun) would be able to draw a vortex of their own.
Inconsistency #5: Jo’orsh and Sa’ram being the progenitors of the Giants.
Officially: They were full of crap – giants existed before the dwarves stole the Dark Lens. The information presented in the Obsidian Oracle is a myth.
Unofficially: It’s possible that the dwarves, with the help of the Lens, might have had an effect on the giants that existed on that island or islands, but not the giant race as a whole.
Inconsistency #6: Kalid-ma – man or woman?
Officially: Man.
Inconsistency #7: Is Athas completely isolated from a multiverse.
Officially: No, but it’s exceedingly hard to “get there from here.” Options are through the use of an artifact or just going through the Gray which may or may not work. One suggestion is to have anyone making the attempt to roll their intelligence or less on a d100.
Unofficially: A world set-up using the new rules in the Manual of the Planes could be used to isolate Athas (Abyssal devils would simply be “critters from the gray” and so on).
Inconsistency #8: Can Halflings use magic?
Officially: Yes, mainly due to the new rules in 3e. It is still very rare, however.
Inconsistency #9: Do dwarves or muls have hair?
Officially: Some might, but it’s very rare (very recessive trait, by now).
Unofficially: Dwarves might actively remove their hair, or lose it through ritual at young age. This may be due to a pledge made by Rkard when he was battling Borys: “If I lose this battle, I’ll shave my beard,” or the like.
Inconsistency #10: 1e vs 2e drawn versions of Kank, Inix, and Mekillot.
Officially: The originals are the “right” ones.
If you have comments, post them, but this seems to be what people agreed on in the other posts (or the closest we came to agreement).
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Conclusions on major (noted) inconsistencies:
Inconsistency #1: Does Borys have wings:
Officially: Yes, Borys is a full-blown 30th level dragon with big, burly wings.
Unofficially: Borys was a mutant dragon thanks to his sudden rise in levels due to the Pristine Tower. As such, he does not have wings. Being a powerful wizard and psion, however, Borys can create wings with potions, spells, psionics, and so on pretty much whenever he wants.
Thought we were going the other way around on this one, but ok.
Inconsistency #2: Who’s a champion?
Officially: The 16 champions listed in the Wanderer’s Chronicle are the only Champions of Rajaat, any others may have been warriors of Rajaat, or followers, but were not dragons-in-the-making.
Unofficially: There’s probably many unlisted champions, and it’s possible that Kalak was not a true champion, his templars gaining power from the disembodied heads of Sacha and Wyan.
Here’s one we didn’t think of: Dregoth, so the story goes, was on his way to becoming a dragon before he was a champion of Rajaat. How cool would it be if he was actually the inventor of the process? Rajaat may have perfected it, but what if “dragon” were named for “Dregoth?”
This works for me
Inconsistency #3: The Thri-Kreen Great One.
Officially: we broke a little from canon material here and said that the Kreen Heads were a representation of Oronis (Keltis) traveling back from the future.
Umm..... The "Great One" was 2 people (or there was the "Great One" and the Avangion, depending on who relates it). One was Oronis, the other was a Thri-Kreen. The Stone head is of the Thri-Kreen leader. It doesn't make sense that a head of a Thri-Kreen is supposed to be an Avangion (unless we take the cheesy "he was polymorphed into a TK" route).
Inconsistency #4: How do SKs grant their power? Specifically, do Vortices exist?
Officially: Yes, vortexes were drawn to the massive output of power created by the creation of the Sorcerer Kings by Borys and Pristine Tower. They are connected to all elemental planes and enable an SK to channel energy to their followers, but not use that energy themselves. There are no Vortexes left, so when an SK dies, the vortex dies with them.
Unofficially: Maybe the vortexes are not extinct. It’s possible that a new dragon exactly recreating the spells cast at the Pristine Tower (including the use of the Dark Lens and probably sucking some energy from the sun) would be able to draw a vortex of their own.
I like.
Inconsistency #5: Jo’orsh and Sa’ram being the progenitors of the Giants.
Officially: They were full of crap – giants existed before the dwarves stole the Dark Lens. The information presented in the Obsidian Oracle is a myth.
Unofficially: It’s possible that the dwarves, with the help of the Lens, might have had an effect on the giants that existed on that island or islands, but not the giant race as a whole.
This works.
Inconsistency #6: Kalid-ma – man or woman?
Officially: Man.
Hehe....
Inconsistency #7: Is Athas completely isolated from a multiverse.
Officially: No, but it’s exceedingly hard to “get there from here.” Options are through the use of an artifact or just going through the Gray which may or may not work. One suggestion is to have anyone making the attempt to roll their intelligence or less on a d100.
Unofficially: A world set-up using the new rules in the Manual of the Planes could be used to isolate Athas (Abyssal devils would simply be “critters from the gray” and so on).
Cool beans.
Inconsistency #8: Can Halflings use magic?
Officially: Yes, mainly due to the new rules in 3e. It is still very rare, however.
I like.
Inconsistency #9: Do dwarves or muls have hair?
Officially: Some might, but it’s very rare (very recessive trait, by now).
Unofficially: Dwarves might actively remove their hair, or lose it through ritual at young age. This may be due to a pledge made by Rkard when he was battling Borys: “If I lose this battle, I’ll shave my beard,” or the like.
This works.
Inconsistency #10: 1e vs 2e drawn versions of Kank, Inix, and Mekillot.
Officially: The originals are the “right” ones.
Works
If you have comments, post them, but this seems to be what people agreed on in the other posts (or the closest we came to agreement).
Hehe
Nice work so far, only 90 more inconcistancies to go :DUmm..... The "Great One" was 2 people (or there was the "Great One" and the Avangion, depending on who relates it). One was Oronis, the other was a Thri-Kreen. The Stone head is of the Thri-Kreen leader. It doesn't make sense that a head of a Thri-Kreen is supposed to be an Avangion (unless we take the cheesy "he was polymorphed into a TK" route).
I agree... a time traveling keltis doesnt quite cut it for me.
One possibility is that its simply a part of the Kreen "hive" mind. Kreen tend to see their "packmates" as other kreen. Its not shocking that over time he would be transformed into a kreen, considering how pervasive their psyches are. Sort of like trying to make a kreen understand what sleep is. He can't. Just like he sees all of his friends as packmates and kreen, even if he is the only actual kreen in his "pack." The Great One, whoever he or she is, could have been any race. Eventually he or she would be changed into a kreen by the Thri-Kreen bias anyway.
As for time travel, it all depends on which you are more willing to accept, oronis traveled back in time (or another avangion), or Oronis was not the first.
Most interesting to me is this... Oronis lied. (gasp!) He did not invent the process. In fact, he learned it from a much older avangion. The reason for the lie is obvious. He wants to protect whoever it is he learned the process from. Which means... he, or she, is still alive.
Sorry to revive that old thread, but i guess I don't like the official explaination. Forgive me, I couldn't help it.
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
I agree... a time traveling keltis doesnt quite cut it for me.
Which is not what I said at all. I said that the statue was in the image of the "Great One", a Thri-Kreen leader. I still like (due to the fact that I developed it) the idea of the Time-traveling Oronis (and once again, Dawnstealer, Oronis is the Avangion, Keltis is the Champion of Rajaat (and I alsu use for his name while he was a Dragon King) - Oronis went back in time, Keltis was already there).
One possibility is that its simply a part of the Kreen "hive" mind. Kreen tend to see their "packmates" as other kreen. Its not shocking that over time he would be transformed into a kreen, considering how pervasive their psyches are. Sort of like trying to make a kreen understand what sleep is. He can't. Just like he sees all of his friends as packmates and kreen, even if he is the only actual kreen in his "pack." The Great One, whoever he or she is, could have been any race. Eventually he or she would be changed into a kreen by the Thri-Kreen bias anyway.
Except that it does clearly state that it was a Thri-Kreen. Of course, it also states that it was an Avangion, and that the Great One was a Thri-Kreen working with an Avangion. So.... obviously it can't be any other race. Thri-Kreen don't believe literally that their non-Kreen packmates are Kreen.
As for time travel, it all depends on which you are more willing to accept, oronis traveled back in time (or another avangion), or Oronis was not the first.
Which I believe that in this case, time travel makes sense. Due to the way the Avangion's final stage of metamorphosis is described.
Most interesting to me is this... Oronis lied. (gasp!) He did not invent the process. In fact, he learned it from a much older avangion. The reason for the lie is obvious. He wants to protect whoever it is he learned the process from. Which means... he, or she, is still alive.
Interesting, but why would another Avangion, the enemy of a Dragon, even consider consorting with a Dragon, or for that matter, a former-Dragon? I mean, he would have freshly been made into a Preserver, and then the Avangion just up and decides he's been a good enough boy? I think the idea that Oronis made the spell is lent credibility based on this. Sure, there is a chance, but it's far more probable that he made the spell. After all, he had already begun the Dragon metamorphosis, and thus was familiar with the basics for the metamorphosis process. He had the help of a preserver to ensure it was done through Preserving practices, the unseen guidance of a Pyreen guiding his hand, and the determination to pay for what he had done to the world killing off the Lizardmen.
Sorry to revive that old thread, but i guess I don't like the official explaination. Forgive me, I couldn't help it.
Well, it's all a part of the inconsistancy series of threads.
Originally posted by Oninotaki
What if thanks to the wonders of 3rd edition the 1st avangion was a thri-kreen and Keltis killed him. After killing the 1st avangion he stole all of his magic secrets and found the secrets of preserver metamorphisis. He then does his hole redemption thing, becomes a avangion, but feels really bad about killing the 1st avangion so he lies about it to anyone else that asks.
Well... I just don't see it. Also: The 3rd Edition allows for racial limitations on a Prestige Class (like the Arcane Archer, or Dwarven Defender), while not on a Base Class. Any race can be any base class, but Prestige Classes get a bit more limiting. My own write-up for Avangions & Dragons allows for any *living* (not undead or construct) type of creature to be able to advance, if they meet the other requirements. However, I really believe that Oronis developed/invented the Avangion metamorphosis. As Porkchops stated - the path to redemption starts with a murder just doesn't make sense at all.
Originally posted by Porkchops
Hmmm, the path to redemption begins with... a murder?
Yeah, untill he kills this guy he has no idea that he can redeeme himself. See he feels guilty about killing all the lizardmen but he has come to the conclusion that there is nothing he can do to change what he is. So when the avangion comes to town he does what all the other sorceror kings expect him to do and what he has resigned himself to do. He goes and kills the 1st avangion. Its not untill later when he discovers the avangions magic research/spell books/lab that he discovers the preserver metamorphasis spell. Upon further study of the spell he discoverys that there might be away for him to change the path that his transformation is taking. So he begins upon the path of redemption
Which is not what I said at all. I said that the statue was in the image of the "Great One", a Thri-Kreen leader. I still like (due to the fact that I developed it) the idea of the Time-traveling Oronis (and once again, Dawnstealer, Oronis is the Avangion, Keltis is the Champion of Rajaat (and I alsu use for his name while he was a Dragon King) - Oronis went back in time, Keltis was already there).
Well aware of DS history, my friend, just didn't want some jackarse popping out with "but oronis wasnt oronis back then!!!111 he wass keltus!11!!1 LOL"
Just trying to avoid confusion and let any newbies in the conversation know that when I say Keltis or Oronis, the names are essentially interchangable because it's the same person.
And, just to annoy you: Keltis, Keltis, Keltis.
:P
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
And, just to annoy you: Keltis, Keltis, Keltis.
Urge to kill........rising.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Urge to kill........rising.
No more Mystery Men for you my friend.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
No more Mystery Men for you my friend.
I loved that movie.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I loved that movie.
"I have a gift. I shovel well."
Thought I was going to have issue with it at first since I can only stand dry humor to a point and it sort of went over the edge on it, but I loved it.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Yeah it was a great movie.
Thought I was going to have issue with it at first since I can only stand dry humor to a point and it sort of went over the edge on it, but I loved it.
I liked it a lot. But then again, I also loved watching the Tick animated series (really wish it was released on DVD, only live action was). Making comical spoofs on superheroes are awesome
Yeah, looking forward to getting all Tick on DVD.
/me reads DS Dragon he just got in now
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
/me reads DS Dragon he just got in now
Urge to stab......rising!
Inconsistency #6: Kalid-ma – man or woman?
Officially: Man.
Unofficially: Sweet Transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania.