Help me Create... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help me Create...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
strenoth
Apr 10, 2004 2:51:07 an Athas Dragon Prestige class!

I'm just starting with the concept, so let's focus on what seem like reasonable prerequisites.

Prerequisits:
Manifester level 21+, Arcane caster level 21+
Able to cast 10th level arcane spells
Improved Manifestation
Epic Spellcasting (which automatically enables Epic Manifestation too)
Concentration: 35+ Ranks
Knowledge, Arcane: 35+ Ranks
Knowledge, Psionics: 35+ Ranks
Psicraft: 35+ Ranks
Spellcraft: 35+ Ranks

OK, so a Human Cerebramancer of level 30 and an INT of 16+ at 1st level could start on the prestige class after level 32, IF the character had split all other levels 50/50 between caster and manifester increasing classes. Most other races require an INT of 18+ at first level. Any issues with the set up so far? and remember, Athas Humans have an LA of +1, so it's really ECL 33 that woudl finish getting the prerequisites, and ECL 34 that would gain the first level of Athas Dragon.
#2
strenoth
Apr 11, 2004 0:23:59 heh, now I've been directed to where my class got moved to... here's my complete PrC write up, and yes, it's way to powerful to ever actually let a PC have in most games. But I think it works nicelly for evil villians!

Athasian Dragon PrC

Prerequisites:
Manifester level 21+, Arcane caster level 21+
Able to cast 10th level arcane spells
Feats: Improved Manifestation, Epic Spellcasting/Manifestation, Toughness, Epic Toughness
Concentration: 35+ Ranks
Knowledge, Arcane: 35+ Ranks
Knowledge, Psionics: 35+ Ranks
Psicraft: 35+ Ranks
Spellcraft: 35+ Ranks
Alignment: Evil
Special: Must have a Defiler score of 31+ (see Dragon magazine #315 for defiling magic). Must not be a Dragon. (Note: Athasian dragons are the only dragons in Athas, though dragon-like creatures exist)

Hit Die: d12

Skill Points per level: 6+ INT bonus.

Skills: Autohypnosis, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Psicraft, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device, Use Psionic Device

Spellcasting/manifesting: An Athasian Dragon continues to increase in both a qualifying arcane caster progression, and a qualifying Psionic manifester level. ‘Qualifying’ means that the class in question must have a caster/manifester level of 21+ already, and have 10th level slots available for the caster class.

Level: Abilities gained:
1 Natural Armor, Path Dedication
2 Claws and Bite, Damage Reduction: 5/epic
3 STR +2, CON +2, Fire resistance: 10
4 Low Light Vision, Dark Vision, Breath Weapon (4d10)
5 True Epic Power, Fire resistance: 20, Damage Reduction: 10/epic and Evil
6 STR+4, Con +2, INT +2, WIS +2, CHA +2, size increase, Bonus Feat
7 Breath Weapon (6d10), Fire resistance: 30
8 Partial Transformation, Damage Reduction: 15/epic and Evil
9 STR +6, CON +6, Fire resistance: 40
10 Size Increase, Blindsense, Breath Weapon (8d10)
11 Spell/Power Resistance
12 True Dragon, Fire Immunity, STR +8, CON+8, INT +4, WIS +4, CHA +4, Bonus Feat, Breath Weapon (10d10), Damage Reduction: 20/epic and Evil

Natural Armor (ex): an Athasian Dragon’s natural Armor increases by his level in this class. A 5th level Athasian Dragon has a +5 to it’s Natural Armor

Path Dedication: An Athasian Dragon must complete the first 12 levels of this PrC and become a True Dragon before taking any other class levels.

Claws and Bite: Character now has claws and bite like a half dragon of the same size

Strength/Constitution increase: these ability scores increase by +2 for every 3 levels of this class.

Low Light/Dark Vision: Gains Low Light Vision, and Dark Vision out to 60 feet. Character’s eyes now look like a dragon’s eyes, including color.

Breath Weapon: This cone of super heated sand does ½ fire damage, and ½ physical damage (that over comes Damage Reduction like the Athasian Dragon’s natural weapons). Reflex Save DC for ½ damage is 10 + ½ class level + Constitution modifier. Damage starts at 4d10 at 4th level, and increase by 2 dice for every 3 levels.

True Epic Power: the Athasian Dragon arrives at a sudden insight into the true nature of both Psionics and Magic. From now on, combine the character’s Knowledge: Psioncs and Knowledge: Arcane ranks to determine the total number of Epic Spells/Powers he can cast each day. Previous epic spells are still treated as spells, and epic powers as powers, and must be cast the same way (ie, a wizard/psion must prepare some of the available slots for any Epic Spells he may want to cast). Add ranks of Psicraft and Spellcraft together for purposes of the casting DC of Epic Spells/Powers, and use the highest of each additional modifier to the total, ie, add INT bonus only once, only add any skill focus once, only use one item that adds an insight bonus, etc.

Any Athasian Dragon with True Epic Power is aware of the existence of any other Athasian Dragon with True Epic Power, has a vague idea of the general direction and distance of each other (enough to narrow the location down to a city), and will recognize a character with this ability on sight. This is why there is currently only one Athasian Dragon with more than 4 levels.

Intelligence/Wisdom/Charisma Increase: These ability scores increase by +2 for every 6 levels in this class.

Size Increase: Character’s Size Category increases by 1, but there are no changes to the character’s ability scores. This occurs at levels 6 and 10

Bonus Feat: an Athasian Dragon gains a Bonus Feat at 6th level and every 6 levels there after.

Partial Transformation: the character now gains wings and a tail if it did not already have them, and now uses the damage table for dragons. Character gains the type of Dragon. Levels in this class count as Racial HD for most purposes except BAB/Saves.

Blind Sense: gains Blind Sense out to 60 feet.

Spell/Power Resistance: The character gains Spell/Power resistance of 30 + class level.

True Dragon: the character is now considered to be a True Dragon of Great Wyrm status(age category 12). The characters form increases by one more size category and completes it’s transformation into a dragon shape. Every further 3 levels gained in this class is considered to be a Virtual Age Category for any effects based off of total age category, but uses does not use the Virtual Age Category increases to abilities/stats. (the class abilities already take care of that)

The Character has all appropriate abilities, such as Immunity to Sleep and Poison, and Keen Senses, that all Dragons and all True dragons have.

Final Notes: because of the Side Effect of true Epic Power (the big Athasian Dragon hunting you down) and the limitation of Dedicated Path, the Dragon-Kings of Athas are perpetually frozen at no more than 4 levels of Athasian Dragon. In order to not incur the wrath of The Dragon, most Dragon Kings invest plenty of XP into Epic Spells, Epic Powers and magic items. Their effective available gold is nearly unlimited for purposes of spell research and item creation. Time and XP are their only true limitations.
#3
strenoth
Apr 11, 2004 14:50:59 Hello? ::listening tot he silence:: No comments? praise? cirtisizm? thoughts? ideas?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
#4
beyowulf
Apr 11, 2004 17:02:21 Hey, no one commented on my Prestige Class, why should anyone comment on yours.:P

Kidding.

You seem to be basing it on the article from Dragon magazine. Such requirements would be understandable if this were 2nd Edition. You needed to be a 20th level Psion and a 20th level Defiler to become a Dragon. As far 2nd Edition, you could only go up to 20th level, and no more, in one particular class. This is not the case in 3rd Edition. So if you have a 20th level Psion and 20th level Defiler, he's going to be smacked down by 40th level Defiler. Thus the requirements are too high. A PC has to start down the road to being a Dragon at a little past 20th(total character level), if its going to be of any benefit at all.
#5
dawnstealer
Apr 11, 2004 18:36:32 It's basically because this one comes up about once a week. There's a few types out there, pick and choose. Mine, for example, stays as true to the original as possible, requiring 20 levels in both psion and wizard. Also a concentration of 20 and a few other skill requirements that would probably require more levels than the 40 would suggest, unless a player were very focused.
#6
zombiegleemax
Apr 11, 2004 19:45:01
Hello? ::listening tot he silence:: No comments? praise? cirtisizm? thoughts? ideas?

You can bet at least quite a few people are checking it out. But like Dawnstealer said, there's been quite a few people to take a stab at dragons over the years. Some of the people are just a little bit burnt out on it. Others like myself aren't number jockeys to be able to give much imput (I don't stat out my dragon-kings anyhow; few if any of my players have the gumption to become an advanced being either, so for now I'm in the clear ;)).

Still, the more the merrier. Keep em coming. If nothing else, its a different take on it that someone may want to use.
#7
strenoth
Apr 12, 2004 2:33:39 Fair enough.. to be honest, I didn't even know the Athas board existed until a Wiz-O bumped my post to here. And actually, I based my concept on old 2n edition info, then upgraded my concepts to 3.5... you had to be a level 20defiler/psion to become a dragon.

this class would basically be most effecient as a Cerebremancer from the XPH... and maybe also a class called Mind Mage? I don't recall it, but it's in one of the recent dragon magazines appearently. With Cerebremancer an Athasian Human with a 14+ intelligence could make this PrC by 34th level (35th ECL). So most (but not all) Dragons woudl be wizard/psions
#8
zombiegleemax
Apr 12, 2004 2:41:28 is there any way to offset the fact that a wiz/psion 20/20 would get raped by a 40 wiz by simply having the dragon abilities of the template/prc boost the powers to be comparable?
#9
strenoth
Apr 12, 2004 13:18:44 at level 16, with ten levels of Cerebremancer: Manifester/caster level of 13 each.

at level 26, with 10 levels of Mind mage (Dragon magazine # 313), Caster/manifester level of 21 each. (I can't find my copy, so I'm not sure hwat other goddies it might have. I just know that it got an 8/8 progression for both).

so as I said, this class could be taken at ECL 34 (CL33) for an Athas human (using the recent dragon magizine version which has an LA of +1). Even assuming they took only normal class levels for the remaining class levels, and did an even split fo caster/manifester level, oen fo them will be 24, and the other one would be 25 for effective level.

So at ECL 40, which would be CL of 39 (and thus 6 levels of this class), the character's effective caster/manifester level would be 30/31 (or 31/30).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 strenoth Apr 10, 2004 2:51:07	an Athas Dragon Prestige class! I'm just starting with the concept, so let's focus on what seem like reasonable prerequisites. Prerequisits: Manifester level 21+, Arcane caster level 21+ Able to cast 10th level arcane spells Improved Manifestation Epic Spellcasting (which automatically enables Epic Manifestation too) Concentration: 35+ Ranks Knowledge, Arcane: 35+ Ranks Knowledge, Psionics: 35+ Ranks Psicraft: 35+ Ranks Spellcraft: 35+ Ranks OK, so a Human Cerebramancer of level 30 and an INT of 16+ at 1st level could start on the prestige class after level 32, IF the character had split all other levels 50/50 between caster and manifester increasing classes. Most other races require an INT of 18+ at first level. Any issues with the set up so far? and remember, Athas Humans have an LA of +1, so it's really ECL 33 that woudl finish getting the prerequisites, and ECL 34 that would gain the first level of Athas Dragon.
#2 strenoth Apr 11, 2004 0:23:59	heh, now I've been directed to where my class got moved to... here's my complete PrC write up, and yes, it's way to powerful to ever actually let a PC have in most games. But I think it works nicelly for evil villians! Athasian Dragon PrC Prerequisites: Manifester level 21+, Arcane caster level 21+ Able to cast 10th level arcane spells Feats: Improved Manifestation, Epic Spellcasting/Manifestation, Toughness, Epic Toughness Concentration: 35+ Ranks Knowledge, Arcane: 35+ Ranks Knowledge, Psionics: 35+ Ranks Psicraft: 35+ Ranks Spellcraft: 35+ Ranks Alignment: Evil Special: Must have a Defiler score of 31+ (see Dragon magazine #315 for defiling magic). Must not be a Dragon. (Note: Athasian dragons are the only dragons in Athas, though dragon-like creatures exist) Hit Die: d12 Skill Points per level: 6+ INT bonus. Skills: Autohypnosis, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Psicraft, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device, Use Psionic Device Spellcasting/manifesting: An Athasian Dragon continues to increase in both a qualifying arcane caster progression, and a qualifying Psionic manifester level. ‘Qualifying’ means that the class in question must have a caster/manifester level of 21+ already, and have 10th level slots available for the caster class. Level: Abilities gained: 1 Natural Armor, Path Dedication 2 Claws and Bite, Damage Reduction: 5/epic 3 STR +2, CON +2, Fire resistance: 10 4 Low Light Vision, Dark Vision, Breath Weapon (4d10) 5 True Epic Power, Fire resistance: 20, Damage Reduction: 10/epic and Evil 6 STR+4, Con +2, INT +2, WIS +2, CHA +2, size increase, Bonus Feat 7 Breath Weapon (6d10), Fire resistance: 30 8 Partial Transformation, Damage Reduction: 15/epic and Evil 9 STR +6, CON +6, Fire resistance: 40 10 Size Increase, Blindsense, Breath Weapon (8d10) 11 Spell/Power Resistance 12 True Dragon, Fire Immunity, STR +8, CON+8, INT +4, WIS +4, CHA +4, Bonus Feat, Breath Weapon (10d10), Damage Reduction: 20/epic and Evil Natural Armor (ex): an Athasian Dragon’s natural Armor increases by his level in this class. A 5th level Athasian Dragon has a +5 to it’s Natural Armor Path Dedication: An Athasian Dragon must complete the first 12 levels of this PrC and become a True Dragon before taking any other class levels. Claws and Bite: Character now has claws and bite like a half dragon of the same size Strength/Constitution increase: these ability scores increase by +2 for every 3 levels of this class. Low Light/Dark Vision: Gains Low Light Vision, and Dark Vision out to 60 feet. Character’s eyes now look like a dragon’s eyes, including color. Breath Weapon: This cone of super heated sand does ½ fire damage, and ½ physical damage (that over comes Damage Reduction like the Athasian Dragon’s natural weapons). Reflex Save DC for ½ damage is 10 + ½ class level + Constitution modifier. Damage starts at 4d10 at 4th level, and increase by 2 dice for every 3 levels. True Epic Power: the Athasian Dragon arrives at a sudden insight into the true nature of both Psionics and Magic. From now on, combine the character’s Knowledge: Psioncs and Knowledge: Arcane ranks to determine the total number of Epic Spells/Powers he can cast each day. Previous epic spells are still treated as spells, and epic powers as powers, and must be cast the same way (ie, a wizard/psion must prepare some of the available slots for any Epic Spells he may want to cast). Add ranks of Psicraft and Spellcraft together for purposes of the casting DC of Epic Spells/Powers, and use the highest of each additional modifier to the total, ie, add INT bonus only once, only add any skill focus once, only use one item that adds an insight bonus, etc. Any Athasian Dragon with True Epic Power is aware of the existence of any other Athasian Dragon with True Epic Power, has a vague idea of the general direction and distance of each other (enough to narrow the location down to a city), and will recognize a character with this ability on sight. This is why there is currently only one Athasian Dragon with more than 4 levels. Intelligence/Wisdom/Charisma Increase: These ability scores increase by +2 for every 6 levels in this class. Size Increase: Character’s Size Category increases by 1, but there are no changes to the character’s ability scores. This occurs at levels 6 and 10 Bonus Feat: an Athasian Dragon gains a Bonus Feat at 6th level and every 6 levels there after. Partial Transformation: the character now gains wings and a tail if it did not already have them, and now uses the damage table for dragons. Character gains the type of Dragon. Levels in this class count as Racial HD for most purposes except BAB/Saves. Blind Sense: gains Blind Sense out to 60 feet. Spell/Power Resistance: The character gains Spell/Power resistance of 30 + class level. True Dragon: the character is now considered to be a True Dragon of Great Wyrm status(age category 12). The characters form increases by one more size category and completes it’s transformation into a dragon shape. Every further 3 levels gained in this class is considered to be a Virtual Age Category for any effects based off of total age category, but uses does not use the Virtual Age Category increases to abilities/stats. (the class abilities already take care of that) The Character has all appropriate abilities, such as Immunity to Sleep and Poison, and Keen Senses, that all Dragons and all True dragons have. Final Notes: because of the Side Effect of true Epic Power (the big Athasian Dragon hunting you down) and the limitation of Dedicated Path, the Dragon-Kings of Athas are perpetually frozen at no more than 4 levels of Athasian Dragon. In order to not incur the wrath of The Dragon, most Dragon Kings invest plenty of XP into Epic Spells, Epic Powers and magic items. Their effective available gold is nearly unlimited for purposes of spell research and item creation. Time and XP are their only true limitations.
#3 strenoth Apr 11, 2004 14:50:59	Hello? ::listening tot he silence:: No comments? praise? cirtisizm? thoughts? ideas? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
#4 beyowulf Apr 11, 2004 17:02:21	Hey, no one commented on my Prestige Class, why should anyone comment on yours.:P Kidding. You seem to be basing it on the article from Dragon magazine. Such requirements would be understandable if this were 2nd Edition. You needed to be a 20th level Psion and a 20th level Defiler to become a Dragon. As far 2nd Edition, you could only go up to 20th level, and no more, in one particular class. This is not the case in 3rd Edition. So if you have a 20th level Psion and 20th level Defiler, he's going to be smacked down by 40th level Defiler. Thus the requirements are too high. A PC has to start down the road to being a Dragon at a little past 20th(total character level), if its going to be of any benefit at all.
#5 dawnstealer Apr 11, 2004 18:36:32	It's basically because this one comes up about once a week. There's a few types out there, pick and choose. Mine, for example, stays as true to the original as possible, requiring 20 levels in both psion and wizard. Also a concentration of 20 and a few other skill requirements that would probably require more levels than the 40 would suggest, unless a player were very focused.
#6 zombiegleemax Apr 11, 2004 19:45:01	Hello? ::listening tot he silence:: No comments? praise? cirtisizm? thoughts? ideas? You can bet at least quite a few people are checking it out. But like Dawnstealer said, there's been quite a few people to take a stab at dragons over the years. Some of the people are just a little bit burnt out on it. Others like myself aren't number jockeys to be able to give much imput (I don't stat out my dragon-kings anyhow; few if any of my players have the gumption to become an advanced being either, so for now I'm in the clear ;)). Still, the more the merrier. Keep em coming. If nothing else, its a different take on it that someone may want to use.
#7 strenoth Apr 12, 2004 2:33:39	Fair enough.. to be honest, I didn't even know the Athas board existed until a Wiz-O bumped my post to here. And actually, I based my concept on old 2n edition info, then upgraded my concepts to 3.5... you had to be a level 20defiler/psion to become a dragon. this class would basically be most effecient as a Cerebremancer from the XPH... and maybe also a class called Mind Mage? I don't recall it, but it's in one of the recent dragon magazines appearently. With Cerebremancer an Athasian Human with a 14+ intelligence could make this PrC by 34th level (35th ECL). So most (but not all) Dragons woudl be wizard/psions
#8 zombiegleemax Apr 12, 2004 2:41:28	is there any way to offset the fact that a wiz/psion 20/20 would get raped by a 40 wiz by simply having the dragon abilities of the template/prc boost the powers to be comparable?
#9 strenoth Apr 12, 2004 13:18:44	at level 16, with ten levels of Cerebremancer: Manifester/caster level of 13 each. at level 26, with 10 levels of Mind mage (Dragon magazine # 313), Caster/manifester level of 21 each. (I can't find my copy, so I'm not sure hwat other goddies it might have. I just know that it got an 8/8 progression for both). so as I said, this class could be taken at ECL 34 (CL33) for an Athas human (using the recent dragon magizine version which has an LA of +1). Even assuming they took only normal class levels for the remaining class levels, and did an even split fo caster/manifester level, oen fo them will be 24, and the other one would be 25 for effective level. So at ECL 40, which would be CL of 39 (and thus 6 levels of this class), the character's effective caster/manifester level would be 30/31 (or 31/30).