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Power level o' the planes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tebryn14
Apr 10, 2004 13:49:37 As a primarily FR based DM, most of my campaign has taken place on Toril (duh). Recently, I have been preparing my PCs to make the switch to PS. The primary reason for this is that I feel that there isn't really anything on the Prime that can present a suitable challenge to epic characters, save other epic characters, who are rare, and would not do well to be killed off at a fast rate.

The Planes in 3e have always been present as the epitome of power, the place with no limits, etc. But I've noticed that not everyone seems to be running with that conclusion.

So I ask, what level are your PCs in the Planes. What are they doing, and, assuming they are epic in level, what kind of challenges do you have for them. (BTW, I hate every monster [almost] presented in the ELH). Thank ye all in advance.
#2
sildatorak
Apr 10, 2004 14:30:23 The power level really depends on the place in the planes that you are talking about. The lower planes are traditionally places that only the strong (or stupid) tread because they are inhabitted by strong and ill-tempered creatures (especially the Abyss and Baator, though the others have all sorts of nasties, too). If you're just looking for a high-powered hack fest, then that is probably the place you should go. If you are going to force your PC's to use brains rather than just skill rolls and attack rolls to figure out what's going on, then you can set up web upon web of Yugolicious lies and plotting.

Shemeska, could you post a link to your story hour again to give him an idea of Yugolothy plot goodness? And by goodness, I mean evilness.
#3
freefall
Apr 10, 2004 17:15:49 The Manual of the Planes Board might be a better place for this question. Planescape almost went out of its way to tone down the power level of the planes to make them almost fully accessible to typical D&D groups, i.e. it used the Outer Planes and Sigil as the basis for the campaign setting, but still went with the idea that players would be starting at level 1 with humans, dwarves, elves, etc. And when you walk around the Outlands and the Outer Planes, and in a lot of the published adventures, a lot of the things you run into are humans, elves, dwarves, etc. The majority of the Harmonium and Revolutionary leagues at least often seem to be predominantly composed of humans. There are a few other playable races, most notably Tieflings, but they are balanced against humans, like all PC races were in 2E. Even in the Warriors of Heaven book when it gets into making Archon PCs they tone down their power levels as much as possible.

Overall, Planescape is not a high-powered campaign setting (compared to a lot of the guys running around FR it might even seem a little weak). You're probably more likely to run into Guardinals and Demons and Devils than on Oerth, I suppose, but things like Pit Fiends and Balors still aren't super common (unless you make them that way). Of course, there aren't very many dragons on the upper planes either, so it might almost balance out.

Of course, you can make the Outer Planes high-powered without any real problems, I just don't think that PS presents itself in that way for the most part, which is why I would say take a look at Manual of the Planes or ask on that board first.
#4
xanxost_the_slaadi_dup
Apr 10, 2004 19:54:26 Xanxost's players are all fourth level at this time. The time is 1752, why do you ask?
What have they been doing? Well, two of them are clueless from Toril, and they just arrived in Sigil, one due to being cornered, and one being sent on a divine mission. Arcane mission? At first level the three of them took a job with the Bleakers (or former Bleakers) of the Gatehouse. That job being trying to find missing children that had disappeared from the orphanage under mysterious circumstances. Xanxost likes mysterious circumstances just a bit less than ironic circumstances. What circumstance are you in?

Eventually, it turned out that the children were being taken by acolytes of the Temple of the Abyss, and were being transported to the Abyss itself. Through sheer dumb luck, the three players found themselves on the Plane of Infinite Portals at around third level.

Now they have since returned from the Abyss and quickly departed for Pelion in order to find and explore the Cathedral of the Sun.

They are definately not epic yet. However, Xanxost does plan to have them touch down on Avernus once they are bored with the Sun.
#5
tebryn14
Apr 10, 2004 20:54:34 Thank you. I was considering it, because my characters are (or will be) around 20th level, and I always thought "yeah, they'll be plenty to do on the planes, divine quests and all". And then it occured to me that if it was predominantly high power level, then they wouldn't have had many players. But I suppose it is probably as (or even more) flexible in those terms than other settings, due to the infinite size thing. I was considering running something along the lines of the Adventures in Hellbound, which I really dig, and I would have to adjust it to their power level.
#6
kilamar
Apr 11, 2004 17:34:28
Originally posted by Tebryn14
So I ask, what level are your PCs in the Planes. What are they doing, and, assuming they are epic in level, what kind of challenges do you have for them. (BTW, I hate every monster [almost] presented in the ELH). Thank ye all in advance.

Our group is 12th level (started first level in the planes) and is saving the universe at the moment. So much for the need of epic levels to do epic things.

Kilamar
#7
dungeonmogrii
Apr 12, 2004 0:18:02 My players moved to the planes around lv15, now they are around 25 and doing epic quests in the lines of Abominations (see ELH) and personal vendettas against other beings of similar power. Actualy, you can upgrade most adventures from PS to very high/epic levels, some better than others (harbinger house breaks at high levels, but doors to the unknown and the various hellbound adventures do not). Try not to affect everything at once, instead try to change things on a local scale (in the planes, even a local scale can be quiet big).
Also, the 3e published adventures "Lord of the iron fortress" and "Bastion of Broken souls" are excelent planar adventures for levels 16-20.
#8
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Apr 12, 2004 1:44:54
Originally posted by Sildatorak

Shemeska, could you post a link to your story hour again to give him an idea of Yugolothy plot goodness? And by goodness, I mean evilness.

"How can I not humor a request that strokes my ever so humble Yugoloth ego?" ;)

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77613

The storyhour covers (or is starting to cover) a planar campaign of mine that started around a year and a half ago with the PCs at level 10, or thereabouts, and at present has seen them advance up to level 22. They started on pretty small scale things and their level of involvement has gone up slowly but steadily (though one of them has been a tad headstrong in what he thinks he can affect by himself). *nudges Toras's player*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tebryn14 Apr 10, 2004 13:49:37	As a primarily FR based DM, most of my campaign has taken place on Toril (duh). Recently, I have been preparing my PCs to make the switch to PS. The primary reason for this is that I feel that there isn't really anything on the Prime that can present a suitable challenge to epic characters, save other epic characters, who are rare, and would not do well to be killed off at a fast rate. The Planes in 3e have always been present as the epitome of power, the place with no limits, etc. But I've noticed that not everyone seems to be running with that conclusion. So I ask, what level are your PCs in the Planes. What are they doing, and, assuming they are epic in level, what kind of challenges do you have for them. (BTW, I hate every monster [almost] presented in the ELH). Thank ye all in advance.
#2 sildatorak Apr 10, 2004 14:30:23	The power level really depends on the place in the planes that you are talking about. The lower planes are traditionally places that only the strong (or stupid) tread because they are inhabitted by strong and ill-tempered creatures (especially the Abyss and Baator, though the others have all sorts of nasties, too). If you're just looking for a high-powered hack fest, then that is probably the place you should go. If you are going to force your PC's to use brains rather than just skill rolls and attack rolls to figure out what's going on, then you can set up web upon web of Yugolicious lies and plotting. Shemeska, could you post a link to your story hour again to give him an idea of Yugolothy plot goodness? And by goodness, I mean evilness.
#3 freefall Apr 10, 2004 17:15:49	The Manual of the Planes Board might be a better place for this question. Planescape almost went out of its way to tone down the power level of the planes to make them almost fully accessible to typical D&D groups, i.e. it used the Outer Planes and Sigil as the basis for the campaign setting, but still went with the idea that players would be starting at level 1 with humans, dwarves, elves, etc. And when you walk around the Outlands and the Outer Planes, and in a lot of the published adventures, a lot of the things you run into are humans, elves, dwarves, etc. The majority of the Harmonium and Revolutionary leagues at least often seem to be predominantly composed of humans. There are a few other playable races, most notably Tieflings, but they are balanced against humans, like all PC races were in 2E. Even in the Warriors of Heaven book when it gets into making Archon PCs they tone down their power levels as much as possible. Overall, Planescape is not a high-powered campaign setting (compared to a lot of the guys running around FR it might even seem a little weak). You're probably more likely to run into Guardinals and Demons and Devils than on Oerth, I suppose, but things like Pit Fiends and Balors still aren't super common (unless you make them that way). Of course, there aren't very many dragons on the upper planes either, so it might almost balance out. Of course, you can make the Outer Planes high-powered without any real problems, I just don't think that PS presents itself in that way for the most part, which is why I would say take a look at Manual of the Planes or ask on that board first.
#4 xanxost_the_slaadi_dup Apr 10, 2004 19:54:26	Xanxost's players are all fourth level at this time. The time is 1752, why do you ask? What have they been doing? Well, two of them are clueless from Toril, and they just arrived in Sigil, one due to being cornered, and one being sent on a divine mission. Arcane mission? At first level the three of them took a job with the Bleakers (or former Bleakers) of the Gatehouse. That job being trying to find missing children that had disappeared from the orphanage under mysterious circumstances. Xanxost likes mysterious circumstances just a bit less than ironic circumstances. What circumstance are you in? Eventually, it turned out that the children were being taken by acolytes of the Temple of the Abyss, and were being transported to the Abyss itself. Through sheer dumb luck, the three players found themselves on the Plane of Infinite Portals at around third level. Now they have since returned from the Abyss and quickly departed for Pelion in order to find and explore the Cathedral of the Sun. They are definately not epic yet. However, Xanxost does plan to have them touch down on Avernus once they are bored with the Sun.
#5 tebryn14 Apr 10, 2004 20:54:34	Thank you. I was considering it, because my characters are (or will be) around 20th level, and I always thought "yeah, they'll be plenty to do on the planes, divine quests and all". And then it occured to me that if it was predominantly high power level, then they wouldn't have had many players. But I suppose it is probably as (or even more) flexible in those terms than other settings, due to the infinite size thing. I was considering running something along the lines of the Adventures in Hellbound, which I really dig, and I would have to adjust it to their power level.
#6 kilamar Apr 11, 2004 17:34:28	Originally posted by Tebryn14 So I ask, what level are your PCs in the Planes. What are they doing, and, assuming they are epic in level, what kind of challenges do you have for them. (BTW, I hate every monster [almost] presented in the ELH). Thank ye all in advance. Our group is 12th level (started first level in the planes) and is saving the universe at the moment. So much for the need of epic levels to do epic things. Kilamar
#7 dungeonmogrii Apr 12, 2004 0:18:02	My players moved to the planes around lv15, now they are around 25 and doing epic quests in the lines of Abominations (see ELH) and personal vendettas against other beings of similar power. Actualy, you can upgrade most adventures from PS to very high/epic levels, some better than others (harbinger house breaks at high levels, but doors to the unknown and the various hellbound adventures do not). Try not to affect everything at once, instead try to change things on a local scale (in the planes, even a local scale can be quiet big). Also, the 3e published adventures "Lord of the iron fortress" and "Bastion of Broken souls" are excelent planar adventures for levels 16-20.
#8 Shemeska_the_Marauder Apr 12, 2004 1:44:54	Originally posted by Sildatorak Shemeska, could you post a link to your story hour again to give him an idea of Yugolothy plot goodness? And by goodness, I mean evilness. "How can I not humor a request that strokes my ever so humble Yugoloth ego?" ;) http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77613 The storyhour covers (or is starting to cover) a planar campaign of mine that started around a year and a half ago with the PCs at level 10, or thereabouts, and at present has seen them advance up to level 22. They started on pretty small scale things and their level of involvement has gone up slowly but steadily (though one of them has been a tad headstrong in what he thinks he can affect by himself). nudges Toras's player