Defilers in Dragon #315 - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Defilers in Dragon #315

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Apr 16, 2004 12:14:50 I'm going to be using the defiling magic system provided in Dragon #315 and had one question about it.

The article mentions defiler points and defiler score as two different things. There is a table showing accumulated defiler points and their effects on the wizard, and it also tells you how to get rid of your defiler points, through meditation or assuming the taint, and thereby increasing your defiler score.

My question is, what's the purpose of the defiler score? Do you add it with your current defiler points to look up on the table? Is your defiler score actually used when turning into a t'liz? The article mentions the defiler score in a couple places, but it never specifically states what its game effects are.

Someone please clarify for me.
#2
zeth_starshifter
Apr 16, 2004 14:33:24 I noticed the same thing with defiler scores.. do they actually do anything other than soak defiler points?
#3
knucklehead
Apr 16, 2004 14:56:05 They set you off like a beacon for a Druid casting the detect defiler spell or whatever it was called (don't have the mag on me).
#4
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Apr 16, 2004 14:59:31 IIRC, from what Nyt and a few others had mentioned, you acrue Defiler Points when you defile, however you can accept the Defiler Points to get rid of the points (or something like that). However, for every 2 points you defile, your Defiler Score increases by 1 point. Even if you purge your Defiler Points, the score doesn't go away. If you have too many Defiler Points, you become a T'Liz, however you can have any number of Defiler Score values without worries of becoming a T'Liz. It primaril;y makes you easier to locate by the Druid spells provided.

I could be muddying this up something fierce, but I think that's how it goes.
#5
Kamelion
Apr 16, 2004 17:37:52 Shei-Nad proposed these modifications to the system (can't be bothered to search and link to his thread, so I'm copy/pasting - sorry Shei, it's late here).

1- To use metamagics when defiling, you need to know the metamagic feat.

2- Assumed defiler points (defiler scores) grant the same disadvantages as defiler points. However, you can reduce your defiler scores in the same way as defiler points, but this requires twice as much time to do so. (this way, assumed defiler points (defiler scores) grant half as much penalties as defiler points, but take twice as long to get rid of. Also, you can no longer accumulate defiler scores in the hundreds without penalties (at 31, you were supposed to get overwhelming defiler auras... typical defiler would get that score in a day's work!)

3- Once you assume a defiler point, you permanently become a defiler. You cannot get rid of your last defiler point, and you always suffer from the penalties associated with it (-2 to cha and wis skill checks). Also, your spells always defile the terrain for half the radius of 1 defiler point. You do not gain defiler points when casting spells without boosting it with defiling energies, however. The only way to loose this defiler status is with a (atonement?) spell from a druid.

4- Preservers who defile can do so, but cannot assume the defiler points if they wish to remain preservers (which means they get more penalties more quickly when they defile).

5- The T'liz template is gained when a defiler dies with a defiler score of 41+ (not 41+ defiler points, and not while living), with some chance the process does not (succeed?) and the defiler simply dies. (10%?).

I thought these were pretty cool suggestions as I was also a bit confused by some of the elements of the article in #315. It seems like all a defiler need do is "accept the taint" and all his troubles go away. Maybe I'm missing something but that seemed a tad unbalanced to me...
#6
zombiegleemax
Apr 16, 2004 18:00:47 Thanks guys. I actually like those modifications to the system that you said Shei-nad (sp?) made. I also thought it was a tad silly to have this defiler score that essentially did nothing bad to the defiler, why would you even bother meditating? Plus, I could easily see defilers going up to a defiler score in the 100's with absolutely no problems resulting from it.
#7
flip
Apr 17, 2004 12:58:02 Basically.

From what I can tell, the system wasn't designed with DS defilers in mind. That is, the assumption was not that you were going to be defiling on every spell ... just the ones you wanted to maximize on the fly ...

Remember, Dragon's in the buisness of making D&D generic rules, not DS targeted rules.
#8
Shei-Nad
Apr 19, 2004 13:35:36 Thanks for the comments on my suggestions.

Also, I'd add the following to make things more clear:

- Assuming the taint is a standard action that draws an AoO, which requires a Concentration check DC 15. When you assume the defiler taint, you add half of your defiler points to your defiler score, and erase all defiler points, reducing the penalties associated with the taint accordingly. Note that assuming the taint makes you a permanent defiler, as described above.

This way, assuming the taint is not done automatically, or as a free action, which would mean defilers would have no reason not to use 3 defiler points instead of 2, for example. As such, they will still have to manage their defiler points between their spells in an encounter.

Its still a bit of a powerful system in my opinion, but it think it can work out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Apr 16, 2004 12:14:50	I'm going to be using the defiling magic system provided in Dragon #315 and had one question about it. The article mentions defiler points and defiler score as two different things. There is a table showing accumulated defiler points and their effects on the wizard, and it also tells you how to get rid of your defiler points, through meditation or assuming the taint, and thereby increasing your defiler score. My question is, what's the purpose of the defiler score? Do you add it with your current defiler points to look up on the table? Is your defiler score actually used when turning into a t'liz? The article mentions the defiler score in a couple places, but it never specifically states what its game effects are. Someone please clarify for me.
#2 zeth_starshifter Apr 16, 2004 14:33:24	I noticed the same thing with defiler scores.. do they actually do anything other than soak defiler points?
#3 knucklehead Apr 16, 2004 14:56:05	They set you off like a beacon for a Druid casting the detect defiler spell or whatever it was called (don't have the mag on me).
#4 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Apr 16, 2004 14:59:31	IIRC, from what Nyt and a few others had mentioned, you acrue Defiler Points when you defile, however you can accept the Defiler Points to get rid of the points (or something like that). However, for every 2 points you defile, your Defiler Score increases by 1 point. Even if you purge your Defiler Points, the score doesn't go away. If you have too many Defiler Points, you become a T'Liz, however you can have any number of Defiler Score values without worries of becoming a T'Liz. It primaril;y makes you easier to locate by the Druid spells provided. I could be muddying this up something fierce, but I think that's how it goes.
#5 Kamelion Apr 16, 2004 17:37:52	Shei-Nad proposed these modifications to the system (can't be bothered to search and link to his thread, so I'm copy/pasting - sorry Shei, it's late here). 1- To use metamagics when defiling, you need to know the metamagic feat. 2- Assumed defiler points (defiler scores) grant the same disadvantages as defiler points. However, you can reduce your defiler scores in the same way as defiler points, but this requires twice as much time to do so. (this way, assumed defiler points (defiler scores) grant half as much penalties as defiler points, but take twice as long to get rid of. Also, you can no longer accumulate defiler scores in the hundreds without penalties (at 31, you were supposed to get overwhelming defiler auras... typical defiler would get that score in a day's work!) 3- Once you assume a defiler point, you permanently become a defiler. You cannot get rid of your last defiler point, and you always suffer from the penalties associated with it (-2 to cha and wis skill checks). Also, your spells always defile the terrain for half the radius of 1 defiler point. You do not gain defiler points when casting spells without boosting it with defiling energies, however. The only way to loose this defiler status is with a (atonement?) spell from a druid. 4- Preservers who defile can do so, but cannot assume the defiler points if they wish to remain preservers (which means they get more penalties more quickly when they defile). 5- The T'liz template is gained when a defiler dies with a defiler score of 41+ (not 41+ defiler points, and not while living), with some chance the process does not (succeed?) and the defiler simply dies. (10%?). I thought these were pretty cool suggestions as I was also a bit confused by some of the elements of the article in #315. It seems like all a defiler need do is "accept the taint" and all his troubles go away. Maybe I'm missing something but that seemed a tad unbalanced to me...
#6 zombiegleemax Apr 16, 2004 18:00:47	Thanks guys. I actually like those modifications to the system that you said Shei-nad (sp?) made. I also thought it was a tad silly to have this defiler score that essentially did nothing bad to the defiler, why would you even bother meditating? Plus, I could easily see defilers going up to a defiler score in the 100's with absolutely no problems resulting from it.
#7 flip Apr 17, 2004 12:58:02	Basically. From what I can tell, the system wasn't designed with DS defilers in mind. That is, the assumption was not that you were going to be defiling on every spell ... just the ones you wanted to maximize on the fly ... Remember, Dragon's in the buisness of making D&D generic rules, not DS targeted rules.
#8 Shei-Nad Apr 19, 2004 13:35:36	Thanks for the comments on my suggestions. Also, I'd add the following to make things more clear: - Assuming the taint is a standard action that draws an AoO, which requires a Concentration check DC 15. When you assume the defiler taint, you add half of your defiler points to your defiler score, and erase all defiler points, reducing the penalties associated with the taint accordingly. Note that assuming the taint makes you a permanent defiler, as described above. This way, assuming the taint is not done automatically, or as a free action, which would mean defilers would have no reason not to use 3 defiler points instead of 2, for example. As such, they will still have to manage their defiler points between their spells in an encounter. Its still a bit of a powerful system in my opinion, but it think it can work out.