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athas.org with your own house rules

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Markus.l
Apr 19, 2004 15:34:16 I was wondering what house rules fellow D.S. D.M.'s use in conjunction with athas.org's 3.5 download? I will post mine shortly but here are the "general" 3.5 house rules we use regardless of what campaign (F.R. setting) we're in. keep in mind that NPC's & monsters follow these too.

[cut & pasted from my web site]

0.5) Feats are gained at every odd CHARACTER CLASS level regardless of class or Prc: 1,3,5,7, ETC. ETC. (this does NOT include levels for level adjustment).

1) Your Dex Mod. x 5' is added to your total movement
ex: Human with a 16 Dex = +3 Mod. = 3x5' = +15' to movement = 45' Move

2) When using a 2-Handed weapon you double your Str modifier (instead of just 1.5 as per the rules)

3) When using the Power Lunge feat from Sword & Fist you claim x3 strength bonus with two-handed weapons when charging instead of x2.

4) When using a weapon in each hand (two weapon fighting) you may use for Str modifier for both hands (instead of .5 Str mod. for your off hand)

5) Anytime a Crit is rolled, it is automatic. No need to roll again to confirm it.
-Unless you needed a roll in the given crit range to hit the target at all. In that case, the roll must be confirmed by another roll, per the written rules.

6) You can use Dex instead of Str for ANY one-handed weapon except a Maul or war Mace (Complete warrior). If it requires two hands to wield, it goes without saying that you are using physical strength to handle it. The whole idea behind this is to emphasize the difference between the brute force fighter archetype and the agile fighter archetype.

If your PC has both high Str and high Dex, the choice is irrelevant with regard to impact on the rules. But if some are higher in one than the other, then you probably have one set of guys that lumber around and crush things wholesale with huge weapons and damage bonuses in just a hit or two before they can even be attacked in return and another group that delivers lightning death by a thousand small cuts and is nearly impossible to hit as they tapdance around you. So, it aids the cause of differentiating PCs, emphasizes the equality of brute force and agility in combat, and it has little to no real impact on the rules.

7) When calculating hit points, multiply maximum possible by 85% and round down. THEN add any Con modifiers you may have
ex: 1st level Barbarian = 1d12 = 12 x .85 = 10.2 = 10 + con mod.

8] At character creation Wizards & Sorcerers may choose to trade in their Familiar feat for another Wizard feat (see wizard feat list in PH under wizard class section).

9) If a character has two weapon fighting feat and attains 2nd level in Ranger, he may choose to continue in the two weapon fighting tree and gain the next level two weapon fighting feat (provided he meets the prerequisites for that feat).

9.5) Rangers may trade in instances of favored enemy "advancement" and acquire a bonus feat in place of it.

10) Any PC may, at creation or class acquisition, trade in weapon or armor feats granted by their class for bonus feats. But this may only be done once for each category of weapon or armor and must be done at creation or when the new class is acquired.

For example, if I make a fighter and trade in his heavy, medium and light armor feats for bonus feats, I may later take Ranger but may not trade in the light armor acquired from Ranger for a bonus feat again. I have already traded the feat for my fighter class and may not get "credit" for it twice. In fact, if I have traded it in, I do not even get the light armor feat for my new Ranger class in the first place. I have forfeited my ability to wear armor proficiently no matter what class I may later elect to take. The only way to reacquire such feats is by using another open feat slot to "buy it back".

11) All U.A. variant rules are on a case by case situation. If you want something from the book you must run it by Steph and I first.

12) When advancing in levels, game time must be spent in order to level up your PC at various stages in his/her life.

a) Any new Core class: 6 months

Ex: Argon, a 3rd level Wizard wishes to become a priest of Mystra. It will take him 6 months of training at a church of Mystra to gain his 1st level of cleric.

b) Any PrC: 1 month*

Ex: Upon reaching 7th level, Argon wishes to become a Mystic Thurge. He must find and train under a master that is at least 2 levels of the PrC in question. *Learning a prestige class without help (essentially creating it from scratch) takes 6 months.

c) Level up at 4th, 8th, & 12th: 1 week

When the character reaches these levels (not xp for +LA characters) regardless of what core class or PrC they have, he must spend the time under a tutor to go over what they have learned. After 12th you are considered a master in your own field and no longer need the 1 week training time.

Clerics can train with any priesthood that is allied with their own God or that at least has the same alignment as their god. This off-faith training takes two weeks though, not one. Monks should be able to go to any monastery or individual monk that shares the same alignment as their own school. Any temple of Helm or Tempus may have a few solitaries or even an entire sect of monks.

If the PC can't find a trainer for his class, he can train himself. But if he is learning this way (by trial and error) it takes an entire month, just like learning a new prestige class. He is essentially making up his own training regimen from scratch, which is as difficult as learning a prestige class. This can be very hard on Psioinc classes and monks, in particular. Monasteries are few and far between. But it also gives IC justification why monks tend to congregate in one place and treat the monastery as the focal point of their lives.

The point of the level training is not really to penalize anyone. It is to maintain the illusion that actual learning is involved in improving yourself and also to force PCs to develop ongoing relationships with reigning masters of their profession. This makes the world seem more real. It also gives you the opportunity to introduce side adventures and secret motivations for individual PCs, since trainers often require a debt of service or the completion of a set task as payment. If all they have to do is pay money for training, they are getting off easy.

It's a lot more likely that Master O'kai-K'ral at the Flacid Petal Monastery wants you to recover the Ineffable Sphincter of Soggybottom in exchange for your 4th level training.

d) Racial classes & PrC’s

If you have levels in a racial class you do not need to spend time to train when gaining or leveling up at the 4, 8, & 12 level marker. Examples would be the were-creature template levels and the Half Dragon PrC.

13) Knowledge (Creature Lore):I am adding this House skill to those that want to buy into it. When rolling, depending on the score you get, I will give you various degrees of information about the creature(s) in question. If your score result is 25 then I will give a VERY Detailed description.

I can't say enough how helpful it is to know when fighting a red dragon that it's immune to all fire spells/effects and takes DOUBLE damage from all cold spells/effects on a failed save...etc.

Classes that normally have access to ANY knowledge skill can also have this as a class skill. The others must follow cross-class skill rules.

14) The Dodge Feat:
If you take the dodge feat or have something that grants you a dodge bonus to AC, it works against all opponents rather than only ONE that you specify as per the original feat.

-------------------

As you can see we take things up a few notches. But so far we haven't had many deaths in the group (one I think). I'm eager to see everyone's D.S. house rules...
#2
nytcrawlr
Apr 19, 2004 18:51:26 I'll post mine eventually, going to be down the road though since I'm not using my own flavor text and don't have the time right now to write all that out.

Noticing a few similarities in your house rules that I used in 2e and such.

The feat every odd level is a bad thing IMO, but not going to argue it. Argued enough with two of the other players I had that are also DMs.

Can't wait to play in a group that's not full of DMs, heh.
#3
Shei-Nad
Apr 19, 2004 21:30:59 Eh, my ''house rules'' arte pretty much on my website now, though its really not to date, but it gives you an idea of the major themes.

As an aside, did you get my email Nyt?
#4
nytcrawlr
Apr 19, 2004 21:51:22
Originally posted by Shei-Nad
Eh, my ''house rules'' arte pretty much on my website now, though its really not to date, but it gives you an idea of the major themes.

As an aside, did you get my email Nyt?

Yeah, sent a reply but it bounced cause your still full.

Got another email address?
#5
zombiegleemax
Apr 19, 2004 22:04:53 Critical Miss Rule: On a roll of 1, roll damage as normal against your own weapon. Magical weapons are privy to a saving throw as described in the DMG. If successful, they take no damage.

If the weapon is metal or better, or an unarmed attack, a roll of 1 has no result other than an automatic miss.

Justification: One problem with critical misses is that the more attacks a warrior gets, the more 1's the warrior will roll, and therefore, will "goof" more than normal. In this case, however, it actually makes sense that a fighter will damage their weapon more if it is used more often. At higher levels, the figher will probably have a metal weapon, and 1 rolls become irrelevant.

Hidden Talent: All characters receive the Hidden Talent feat as described on page 67 of the EPH, in addition to any other feats they may have. The power should be chosen from the main psion/wilder power list.

Justification: Athas is a high-psionics world, and that is what the Hidden Talent feat is for. NPC's do not necessarily have the hidden talent feat, though some do.
#6
Markus.l
Apr 19, 2004 23:28:10
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
Hidden Talent: All characters receive the Hidden Talent feat as described on page 67 of the EPH, in addition to any other feats they may have. The power should be chosen from the main psion/wilder power list.

Justification: Athas is a high-psionics world, and that is what the Hidden Talent feat is for. NPC's do not necessarily have the hidden talent feat, though some do.

I'm diggin' this one. Makes a lot of sense for athas. Perhaps one has it on a d100 of 6-100?
#7
zombiegleemax
Apr 20, 2004 7:56:30 I haven't been playing this DS game long enough to establish house rules except for my most standard one which is: 20 = +10 to your roll, 1 = -10 to your role. So for all intents when you roll a 20 when you're trying to pick a lock, it becomes a 30 + your bonuses as opposed to an automatic success. (however, rarely do I ever set a DC above 40.. I mean.. My players are reasonable people who don't try absurd things most of the time. ;))
#8
zombiegleemax
Apr 20, 2004 9:09:44
Originally posted by Markus.l
I'm diggin' this one. Makes a lot of sense for athas. Perhaps one has it on a d100 of 6-100?

*shrug* More that your typical lackeys don't have it, and considerable foes do. Easier than rolling. (im assuming that should be 60-100)
#9
zombiegleemax
Apr 22, 2004 4:25:56 Still haven't recieved XPH, so give all players a free Feat of either Wild Talent or Talented (their choice) if they wish to be 'psionic'. If they have taken this free feat they are no longer considered to have a non psionic buffer, but are allowed to take any psionic feats (those with min PSP requirements obviously are no use to most of these chars).

Originally posted by AthasianDirge
my most standard one which is: 20 = +10 to your roll, 1 = -10 to your role. So for all intents when you roll a 20 when you're trying to pick a lock, it becomes a 30 + your bonuses as opposed to an automatic success.

I could use this for combat, but 20s are not auto successes for anything but attack rolls? So you are giving a bonus of 10 whenever a 20 is rolled for skill use and/or saves. Have you though about the option of open ended rolls? If a 20 is rolled then you roll again and add that to the total and if a 1 is rolled then you roll again and subtract it from the total.

Could get cumbersome though, try playing rolemaster/merps to see what I mean.
#10
zombiegleemax
Apr 22, 2004 4:30:45 Also going to introduce an addition to defileing.
Whenever a defiler draws energy all within his vicinity must take a fort save at DC 10 + spell level or take a -1 moral penalty to all rolls that round.
#11
jon_oracle_of_athas
Apr 22, 2004 16:35:07 20s are automatical success for attack rolls and saves, and 1s are automatical misses for attack rolls and saves. Skills are not affected. However, I have houseruled in the past that if you roll a 1 on a skill check, you reroll and if you get another 1 you fumble.

Also, Felix, that fortitude save seems cumbersome. Why not use the defiler radius effect from the athas.org DS 3.5 conversion?
#12
zombiegleemax
Apr 22, 2004 21:54:46
Also, Felix, that fortitude save seems cumbersome. Why not use the defiler radius effect from the athas.org DS 3.5 conversion?

I was sort of wanting to play with the concept of resisting the drain. and maybe scaling the effect per spell level.
-1 per spell level with save for half?

Still screwing about with it, will probably though just default with the DS3.5 effects.
Suprisingly not much defiling has occured even though I'm running a draxan campaign.

which bring up another point. As this is an Ur'Draxan campaign, I have restricted the classes and races available to the players.

Draxan:
Classes:
defiler, templar, ranger, gladiator(was unsure about this), fighter, bard, psion, psi war, rogue
Races:
human, mul, half-elf

Slave:
Classes:
cleric, ranger, mage(either), gladiator (only new slaves), fighter, bard, psion, psi war, rogue, brute, druid, templar(if of different city state)
Races:
human, elf, 1/2 elf, mul, dwarf, pterran?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Markus.l Apr 19, 2004 15:34:16	I was wondering what house rules fellow D.S. D.M.'s use in conjunction with athas.org's 3.5 download? I will post mine shortly but here are the "general" 3.5 house rules we use regardless of what campaign (F.R. setting) we're in. keep in mind that NPC's & monsters follow these too. [cut & pasted from my web site] 0.5) Feats are gained at every odd CHARACTER CLASS level regardless of class or Prc: 1,3,5,7, ETC. ETC. (this does NOT include levels for level adjustment). 1) Your Dex Mod. x 5' is added to your total movement ex: Human with a 16 Dex = +3 Mod. = 3x5' = +15' to movement = 45' Move 2) When using a 2-Handed weapon you double your Str modifier (instead of just 1.5 as per the rules) 3) When using the Power Lunge feat from Sword & Fist you claim x3 strength bonus with two-handed weapons when charging instead of x2. 4) When using a weapon in each hand (two weapon fighting) you may use for Str modifier for both hands (instead of .5 Str mod. for your off hand) 5) Anytime a Crit is rolled, it is automatic. No need to roll again to confirm it. -Unless you needed a roll in the given crit range to hit the target at all. In that case, the roll must be confirmed by another roll, per the written rules. 6) You can use Dex instead of Str for ANY one-handed weapon except a Maul or war Mace (Complete warrior). If it requires two hands to wield, it goes without saying that you are using physical strength to handle it. The whole idea behind this is to emphasize the difference between the brute force fighter archetype and the agile fighter archetype. If your PC has both high Str and high Dex, the choice is irrelevant with regard to impact on the rules. But if some are higher in one than the other, then you probably have one set of guys that lumber around and crush things wholesale with huge weapons and damage bonuses in just a hit or two before they can even be attacked in return and another group that delivers lightning death by a thousand small cuts and is nearly impossible to hit as they tapdance around you. So, it aids the cause of differentiating PCs, emphasizes the equality of brute force and agility in combat, and it has little to no real impact on the rules. 7) When calculating hit points, multiply maximum possible by 85% and round down. THEN add any Con modifiers you may have ex: 1st level Barbarian = 1d12 = 12 x .85 = 10.2 = 10 + con mod. 8] At character creation Wizards & Sorcerers may choose to trade in their Familiar feat for another Wizard feat (see wizard feat list in PH under wizard class section). 9) If a character has two weapon fighting feat and attains 2nd level in Ranger, he may choose to continue in the two weapon fighting tree and gain the next level two weapon fighting feat (provided he meets the prerequisites for that feat). 9.5) Rangers may trade in instances of favored enemy "advancement" and acquire a bonus feat in place of it. 10) Any PC may, at creation or class acquisition, trade in weapon or armor feats granted by their class for bonus feats. But this may only be done once for each category of weapon or armor and must be done at creation or when the new class is acquired. For example, if I make a fighter and trade in his heavy, medium and light armor feats for bonus feats, I may later take Ranger but may not trade in the light armor acquired from Ranger for a bonus feat again. I have already traded the feat for my fighter class and may not get "credit" for it twice. In fact, if I have traded it in, I do not even get the light armor feat for my new Ranger class in the first place. I have forfeited my ability to wear armor proficiently no matter what class I may later elect to take. The only way to reacquire such feats is by using another open feat slot to "buy it back". 11) All U.A. variant rules are on a case by case situation. If you want something from the book you must run it by Steph and I first. 12) When advancing in levels, game time must be spent in order to level up your PC at various stages in his/her life. a) Any new Core class: 6 months Ex: Argon, a 3rd level Wizard wishes to become a priest of Mystra. It will take him 6 months of training at a church of Mystra to gain his 1st level of cleric. b) Any PrC: 1 month* Ex: Upon reaching 7th level, Argon wishes to become a Mystic Thurge. He must find and train under a master that is at least 2 levels of the PrC in question. *Learning a prestige class without help (essentially creating it from scratch) takes 6 months. c) Level up at 4th, 8th, & 12th: 1 week When the character reaches these levels (not xp for +LA characters) regardless of what core class or PrC they have, he must spend the time under a tutor to go over what they have learned. After 12th you are considered a master in your own field and no longer need the 1 week training time. Clerics can train with any priesthood that is allied with their own God or that at least has the same alignment as their god. This off-faith training takes two weeks though, not one. Monks should be able to go to any monastery or individual monk that shares the same alignment as their own school. Any temple of Helm or Tempus may have a few solitaries or even an entire sect of monks. If the PC can't find a trainer for his class, he can train himself. But if he is learning this way (by trial and error) it takes an entire month, just like learning a new prestige class. He is essentially making up his own training regimen from scratch, which is as difficult as learning a prestige class. This can be very hard on Psioinc classes and monks, in particular. Monasteries are few and far between. But it also gives IC justification why monks tend to congregate in one place and treat the monastery as the focal point of their lives. The point of the level training is not really to penalize anyone. It is to maintain the illusion that actual learning is involved in improving yourself and also to force PCs to develop ongoing relationships with reigning masters of their profession. This makes the world seem more real. It also gives you the opportunity to introduce side adventures and secret motivations for individual PCs, since trainers often require a debt of service or the completion of a set task as payment. If all they have to do is pay money for training, they are getting off easy. It's a lot more likely that Master O'kai-K'ral at the Flacid Petal Monastery wants you to recover the Ineffable Sphincter of Soggybottom in exchange for your 4th level training. d) Racial classes & PrC’s If you have levels in a racial class you do not need to spend time to train when gaining or leveling up at the 4, 8, & 12 level marker. Examples would be the were-creature template levels and the Half Dragon PrC. 13) Knowledge (Creature Lore):I am adding this House skill to those that want to buy into it. When rolling, depending on the score you get, I will give you various degrees of information about the creature(s) in question. If your score result is 25 then I will give a VERY Detailed description. I can't say enough how helpful it is to know when fighting a red dragon that it's immune to all fire spells/effects and takes DOUBLE damage from all cold spells/effects on a failed save...etc. Classes that normally have access to ANY knowledge skill can also have this as a class skill. The others must follow cross-class skill rules. 14) The Dodge Feat: If you take the dodge feat or have something that grants you a dodge bonus to AC, it works against all opponents rather than only ONE that you specify as per the original feat. ------------------- As you can see we take things up a few notches. But so far we haven't had many deaths in the group (one I think). I'm eager to see everyone's D.S. house rules...
#2 nytcrawlr Apr 19, 2004 18:51:26	I'll post mine eventually, going to be down the road though since I'm not using my own flavor text and don't have the time right now to write all that out. Noticing a few similarities in your house rules that I used in 2e and such. The feat every odd level is a bad thing IMO, but not going to argue it. Argued enough with two of the other players I had that are also DMs. Can't wait to play in a group that's not full of DMs, heh.
#3 Shei-Nad Apr 19, 2004 21:30:59	Eh, my ''house rules'' arte pretty much on my website now, though its really not to date, but it gives you an idea of the major themes. As an aside, did you get my email Nyt?
#4 nytcrawlr Apr 19, 2004 21:51:22	Originally posted by Shei-Nad Eh, my ''house rules'' arte pretty much on my website now, though its really not to date, but it gives you an idea of the major themes. As an aside, did you get my email Nyt? Yeah, sent a reply but it bounced cause your still full. Got another email address?
#5 zombiegleemax Apr 19, 2004 22:04:53	Critical Miss Rule: On a roll of 1, roll damage as normal against your own weapon. Magical weapons are privy to a saving throw as described in the DMG. If successful, they take no damage. If the weapon is metal or better, or an unarmed attack, a roll of 1 has no result other than an automatic miss. Justification: One problem with critical misses is that the more attacks a warrior gets, the more 1's the warrior will roll, and therefore, will "goof" more than normal. In this case, however, it actually makes sense that a fighter will damage their weapon more if it is used more often. At higher levels, the figher will probably have a metal weapon, and 1 rolls become irrelevant. Hidden Talent: All characters receive the Hidden Talent feat as described on page 67 of the EPH, in addition to any other feats they may have. The power should be chosen from the main psion/wilder power list. Justification: Athas is a high-psionics world, and that is what the Hidden Talent feat is for. NPC's do not necessarily have the hidden talent feat, though some do.
#6 Markus.l Apr 19, 2004 23:28:10	Originally posted by Phoenix_Down Hidden Talent: All characters receive the Hidden Talent feat as described on page 67 of the EPH, in addition to any other feats they may have. The power should be chosen from the main psion/wilder power list. Justification: Athas is a high-psionics world, and that is what the Hidden Talent feat is for. NPC's do not necessarily have the hidden talent feat, though some do. I'm diggin' this one. Makes a lot of sense for athas. Perhaps one has it on a d100 of 6-100?
#7 zombiegleemax Apr 20, 2004 7:56:30	I haven't been playing this DS game long enough to establish house rules except for my most standard one which is: 20 = +10 to your roll, 1 = -10 to your role. So for all intents when you roll a 20 when you're trying to pick a lock, it becomes a 30 + your bonuses as opposed to an automatic success. (however, rarely do I ever set a DC above 40.. I mean.. My players are reasonable people who don't try absurd things most of the time. ;))
#8 zombiegleemax Apr 20, 2004 9:09:44	Originally posted by Markus.l I'm diggin' this one. Makes a lot of sense for athas. Perhaps one has it on a d100 of 6-100? shrug More that your typical lackeys don't have it, and considerable foes do. Easier than rolling. (im assuming that should be 60-100)
#9 zombiegleemax Apr 22, 2004 4:25:56	Still haven't recieved XPH, so give all players a free Feat of either Wild Talent or Talented (their choice) if they wish to be 'psionic'. If they have taken this free feat they are no longer considered to have a non psionic buffer, but are allowed to take any psionic feats (those with min PSP requirements obviously are no use to most of these chars). Originally posted by AthasianDirge my most standard one which is: 20 = +10 to your roll, 1 = -10 to your role. So for all intents when you roll a 20 when you're trying to pick a lock, it becomes a 30 + your bonuses as opposed to an automatic success. I could use this for combat, but 20s are not auto successes for anything but attack rolls? So you are giving a bonus of 10 whenever a 20 is rolled for skill use and/or saves. Have you though about the option of open ended rolls? If a 20 is rolled then you roll again and add that to the total and if a 1 is rolled then you roll again and subtract it from the total. Could get cumbersome though, try playing rolemaster/merps to see what I mean.
#10 zombiegleemax Apr 22, 2004 4:30:45	Also going to introduce an addition to defileing. Whenever a defiler draws energy all within his vicinity must take a fort save at DC 10 + spell level or take a -1 moral penalty to all rolls that round.
#11 jon_oracle_of_athas Apr 22, 2004 16:35:07	20s are automatical success for attack rolls and saves, and 1s are automatical misses for attack rolls and saves. Skills are not affected. However, I have houseruled in the past that if you roll a 1 on a skill check, you reroll and if you get another 1 you fumble. Also, Felix, that fortitude save seems cumbersome. Why not use the defiler radius effect from the athas.org DS 3.5 conversion?
#12 zombiegleemax Apr 22, 2004 21:54:46	Also, Felix, that fortitude save seems cumbersome. Why not use the defiler radius effect from the athas.org DS 3.5 conversion? I was sort of wanting to play with the concept of resisting the drain. and maybe scaling the effect per spell level. -1 per spell level with save for half? Still screwing about with it, will probably though just default with the DS3.5 effects. Suprisingly not much defiling has occured even though I'm running a draxan campaign. which bring up another point. As this is an Ur'Draxan campaign, I have restricted the classes and races available to the players. Draxan: Classes: defiler, templar, ranger, gladiator(was unsure about this), fighter, bard, psion, psi war, rogue Races: human, mul, half-elf Slave: Classes: cleric, ranger, mage(either), gladiator (only new slaves), fighter, bard, psion, psi war, rogue, brute, druid, templar(if of different city state) Races: human, elf, 1/2 elf, mul, dwarf, pterran?