XPH gimp Half-Giants? and other random stuff - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

XPH gimp Half-Giants? and other random stuff

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Apr 20, 2004 21:50:58 Anyone else feel that the new expanded psionics handbook, and the dragon #319, completely gimp half-giant stats. +2 strength bonus for a half giant? ~shrug~

I personally adapt dark sun 3.5 from athas.org to +6 str, +2 con, -2 intel, -2 wis, -2 cha.

also, while on the subject of adapting rule, I have found a fairly effective way of dealing with preservers and defilers. When a preserver casts a spell, the spell's power level is based solely on the terrain around the caster. This means that they may or maynot get a bonus to spell casting, usually(60% of the time) the preserver is working at a negative spell level. The remaining 40% is usually casting at a normal level with a rare bonus if they venture near a forested area.

A defiler on the other hand can choose to raise the level of the area they are casting by drawing more energy from the surrounding area. The mechanics work like this(using the chart from athas.org 3.5 rules):

For each level raise:
- the caster must add +1 round to the casting time, as he/she gathers the power.

- the area around the caster is completely destroyed equaling 5ft * the level of the spell being cast * the number of steps the caster is increasing his power

- any act of defiling gives the defiler a defiling point (treat these the same as dark side points from star wars rpg). If the defiling points = half the casters wisdom score then the preserver becomes a defiler, and must begin a long path of redemtion or risk being hunt by the veiled alliance, the dragon kings, templars, and many many others who dont like defilers.

for example: frank the preserver is in a city(normally no bonus to his caster lvl), but he really needs the fireball to hit with maximum impact, so he chooses to defile to increase the power of his spell. he wants to maximize the power so he chooses to increase the level of the area by two steps giving him +2 caster lvl.
He adds +1 to the casting time on his spell, and at the time of the spells casting an area around the cast equal to (5ft * 3 (spell lvl) * 2 (steps increased) = 30ft of scorced earth). Kind of hard to hide 30 ft of earth suddenly turning to ash, but frank gets his power boost, and adds one to his defiler point pool.
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Apr 20, 2004 22:06:58 Welcome to the conversation & forums. There's actually been quite a debate about the significant changes from the Dark Sun setting's "feel" and rules with the Dragon/Dungeon write-ups. There's also been a lot of us that haven't been impressed with the Half-Giants since they were previewable online. These changes were very obviously done by people who did not know, bother with reading, or care to research one iota about Dark Sun, and unfortunately, their names aren't in the by-lines. Everyone's been basically either playing the blame game or has been attempting to overlook the issues completely. It's been.... very interesting in this forum over the past couple of weeks.

All in all, I'd say check out the athas.org conversion, their Half-Giants are done better, and their conversion is far superior to that we've seen from Paizo or even WotC as of late. However, rather than taking my word for it, check it out. You will probably find some balance between using the athas.org write-up and that presented from Dragon/Dungeon (and the XPH Half-Giant), however many of us tend to use about 90% from athas.org, probably 5-8% from Dragon/Dungeon, and the rest from homebrew designs.
#3
nytcrawlr
Apr 20, 2004 22:09:32
Originally posted by TheLibrarian
I personally adapt dark sun 3.5 from athas.org to +6 str, +2 con, -2 intel, -2 wis, -2 cha.

Not sure why people continue to do this.

According to the basic rules of the MM 3.5, large creatures need at least a +8 to Str, so +6 isn't going to cut it IMO and still is a gimped HG, even if it's not as gimped as the one in the XPsiHb.

More ceramic for you.
#4
superpriest
Apr 21, 2004 22:40:48
According to the basic rules of the MM 3.5, large creatures need at least a +8 to Str

Not true. On page 296, only CR and HD have minimums. The ability guidelines are typical monsters, but of course plently of monsters break those guidelines.
#5
nytcrawlr
Apr 21, 2004 22:56:11
Originally posted by superpriest
Not true. On page 296, only CR and HD have minimums. The ability guidelines are typical monsters, but of course plently of monsters break those guidelines.

You're right, found a few with only +6.

Still don't think that's an Athasian Half Giant though, but to each their own.
#6
zombiegleemax
Apr 22, 2004 16:19:52 I very much dislike the new half giant. It's a cop out.
#7
Agonar
Apr 23, 2004 16:52:34
Originally posted by TheLibrarian
Anyone else feel that the new expanded psionics handbook, and the dragon #319, completely gimp half-giant stats. +2 strength bonus for a half giant? ~shrug~

I personally adapt dark sun 3.5 from athas.org to +6 str, +2 con, -2 intel, -2 wis, -2 cha.

Well, the way I see it, the XPH is presenting a Half Giant suitable for a "typical" D&D campaign. What you see is probably what you'd get if you crossed a Human with your typical Hill Giant.

It is NOT what you get in Dark Sun where the SKs crossed Humans with Athasian Giants. Anyone who knows anything knows that Athasian Giants would use Hill Giants as foot rests and body servants if there were in the same world together.

So, a Athas Half Giant should be somewhere more along the lines of a "typical" Hill Giant, OR, exactly as presented on Athas.org
#8
zombiegleemax
Apr 27, 2004 14:49:30 The half-giant is weaker than the half-ogre presented in Savage Species. You would think a half-giant would have more strength, more con, and be bigger than a half-ogre (though still size L)
#9
Sysane
Apr 30, 2004 11:44:08 Savage Species is a broken book IMO. Some good stuff, but a lot of it broken.

--Sysane, The Terror of Urik
#10
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Apr 30, 2004 23:21:50 Well, to each their own, then. I find Savage Species to be a very useful book to have, for all kinds of things.
#11
zombiegleemax
May 01, 2004 8:35:11
Originally posted by Sysane
Savage Species is a broken book IMO. Some good stuff, but a lot of it broken.

--Sysane, The Terror of Urik

[*cough*] Illithid Savant [*cough*/I]

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Apr 20, 2004 21:50:58	Anyone else feel that the new expanded psionics handbook, and the dragon #319, completely gimp half-giant stats. +2 strength bonus for a half giant? ~shrug~ I personally adapt dark sun 3.5 from athas.org to +6 str, +2 con, -2 intel, -2 wis, -2 cha. also, while on the subject of adapting rule, I have found a fairly effective way of dealing with preservers and defilers. When a preserver casts a spell, the spell's power level is based solely on the terrain around the caster. This means that they may or maynot get a bonus to spell casting, usually(60% of the time) the preserver is working at a negative spell level. The remaining 40% is usually casting at a normal level with a rare bonus if they venture near a forested area. A defiler on the other hand can choose to raise the level of the area they are casting by drawing more energy from the surrounding area. The mechanics work like this(using the chart from athas.org 3.5 rules): For each level raise: - the caster must add +1 round to the casting time, as he/she gathers the power. - the area around the caster is completely destroyed equaling 5ft * the level of the spell being cast * the number of steps the caster is increasing his power - any act of defiling gives the defiler a defiling point (treat these the same as dark side points from star wars rpg). If the defiling points = half the casters wisdom score then the preserver becomes a defiler, and must begin a long path of redemtion or risk being hunt by the veiled alliance, the dragon kings, templars, and many many others who dont like defilers. for example: frank the preserver is in a city(normally no bonus to his caster lvl), but he really needs the fireball to hit with maximum impact, so he chooses to defile to increase the power of his spell. he wants to maximize the power so he chooses to increase the level of the area by two steps giving him +2 caster lvl. He adds +1 to the casting time on his spell, and at the time of the spells casting an area around the cast equal to (5ft * 3 (spell lvl) * 2 (steps increased) = 30ft of scorced earth). Kind of hard to hide 30 ft of earth suddenly turning to ash, but frank gets his power boost, and adds one to his defiler point pool.
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Apr 20, 2004 22:06:58	Welcome to the conversation & forums. There's actually been quite a debate about the significant changes from the Dark Sun setting's "feel" and rules with the Dragon/Dungeon write-ups. There's also been a lot of us that haven't been impressed with the Half-Giants since they were previewable online. These changes were very obviously done by people who did not know, bother with reading, or care to research one iota about Dark Sun, and unfortunately, their names aren't in the by-lines. Everyone's been basically either playing the blame game or has been attempting to overlook the issues completely. It's been.... very interesting in this forum over the past couple of weeks. All in all, I'd say check out the athas.org conversion, their Half-Giants are done better, and their conversion is far superior to that we've seen from Paizo or even WotC as of late. However, rather than taking my word for it, check it out. You will probably find some balance between using the athas.org write-up and that presented from Dragon/Dungeon (and the XPH Half-Giant), however many of us tend to use about 90% from athas.org, probably 5-8% from Dragon/Dungeon, and the rest from homebrew designs.
#3 nytcrawlr Apr 20, 2004 22:09:32	Originally posted by TheLibrarian I personally adapt dark sun 3.5 from athas.org to +6 str, +2 con, -2 intel, -2 wis, -2 cha. Not sure why people continue to do this. According to the basic rules of the MM 3.5, large creatures need at least a +8 to Str, so +6 isn't going to cut it IMO and still is a gimped HG, even if it's not as gimped as the one in the XPsiHb. More ceramic for you.
#4 superpriest Apr 21, 2004 22:40:48	According to the basic rules of the MM 3.5, large creatures need at least a +8 to Str Not true. On page 296, only CR and HD have minimums. The ability guidelines are typical monsters, but of course plently of monsters break those guidelines.
#5 nytcrawlr Apr 21, 2004 22:56:11	Originally posted by superpriest Not true. On page 296, only CR and HD have minimums. The ability guidelines are typical monsters, but of course plently of monsters break those guidelines. You're right, found a few with only +6. Still don't think that's an Athasian Half Giant though, but to each their own.
#6 zombiegleemax Apr 22, 2004 16:19:52	I very much dislike the new half giant. It's a cop out.
#7 Agonar Apr 23, 2004 16:52:34	Originally posted by TheLibrarian Anyone else feel that the new expanded psionics handbook, and the dragon #319, completely gimp half-giant stats. +2 strength bonus for a half giant? ~shrug~ I personally adapt dark sun 3.5 from athas.org to +6 str, +2 con, -2 intel, -2 wis, -2 cha. Well, the way I see it, the XPH is presenting a Half Giant suitable for a "typical" D&D campaign. What you see is probably what you'd get if you crossed a Human with your typical Hill Giant. It is NOT what you get in Dark Sun where the SKs crossed Humans with Athasian Giants. Anyone who knows anything knows that Athasian Giants would use Hill Giants as foot rests and body servants if there were in the same world together. So, a Athas Half Giant should be somewhere more along the lines of a "typical" Hill Giant, OR, exactly as presented on Athas.org
#8 zombiegleemax Apr 27, 2004 14:49:30	The half-giant is weaker than the half-ogre presented in Savage Species. You would think a half-giant would have more strength, more con, and be bigger than a half-ogre (though still size L)
#9 Sysane Apr 30, 2004 11:44:08	Savage Species is a broken book IMO. Some good stuff, but a lot of it broken. --Sysane, The Terror of Urik
#10 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Apr 30, 2004 23:21:50	Well, to each their own, then. I find Savage Species to be a very useful book to have, for all kinds of things.
#11 zombiegleemax May 01, 2004 8:35:11	Originally posted by Sysane Savage Species is a broken book IMO. Some good stuff, but a lot of it broken. --Sysane, The Terror of Urik [cough] Illithid Savant [cough/I]