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Complete Divine PrCs

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Nived
Apr 21, 2004 12:38:19 In another thread, namely this one, we are shown a list of what PrCs will be in Complete Divine. Since many of these PrCs are 3.5 updates, and we already know the flavor of them. I thought that now, before the book is released, we could start the inevitable discussion on how they fit into the Dragonlance setting, if they do at all.

Core CLasses
Favored Soul
Shugenja
Spirit Shaman

Prestige CLasses
Black Flame Zealot
Blighter
Church Inquisitor
Consecrated Harrier
Contemplative
Divine Crusader
Divine Oracle
Entropomancer
Evangelist
Geomancer
Holy Liberator
Hospitaler
Pious Templar
Radiant Servant of Pelor
Rainbow Servant
Sacred Exorcist
Sacred Fist
Seeker of the Misty Isle
Shining Blade of Heironeous
Temple Raider of Olidammara
Ur-Priest
Void Disciple
Warpriest

Many of these are from Defenders of the Faith, Masters of the Wild, and I see at least one from Song and Silence, but some of these are unfamilar to me. I'll just go down what I know.

Blighter (MotW), actually I've already given this one some thought since I like the class as a villian when I run game. A blighter could easily be a Druid of Habbakuk or Chislev who fell and now gains their power from Morgion. Since blights on plantlife are technically a disease I supose they fall under Morgion's domain, though Undead Wildshape might be hard to explain, as would be animate Undead animal, since both of these would suggest kinship with Chemosh. So perhaps blighters patrons could be either Morgion or Chemosh. I don't think Zeboim would sponcer Blighters, since Zeboim is one of the Druidic deities and Blighters are the anti-druid.

Church Inquisitor (DotF) Like the Inquisitor in the DLCS I think it has a place in Dragonlance, especially in games durring the Kingpriest's reign, though it'd be hard to imagine many of them keeping their clerical magic.

Consecrated Harrier (DotF) See Church Inquisitor

Contemplative (DotF) A cleric that strives to be more like their patron diety to the point of gaining outsider traits. I can easily see this PrC woring for followers of Majere, Gilean, or Zivilyn, but really I could see clerics of any deity going for this one.

Divine Oracle (DotF) Absolutely perfect for Zivilyn's clerics.

Geomancer (MotW) No, nono, NO. While combining divine and arcance magic has been discussed to death with the Mystic Therge, and the general opinion is it can work with Sorcerer/Mystics but not Cleric/Wizards I've have to say that the Geomancer is just... wrong for Dragonlance. The Spell Versitility ability, if its the same as it was for 3.0 kinda flies in the face of everything that's been established about the magics at work on Krynn. Being able to freely choose what stat decides spell DCs, andbeing able to cast arcane magic without arcane spell chance failure is a nono!

Holy Liberator (DotF) The Chaotic Good Paladin PrC, I supose it could work, though even more rare than paladins... the problem is I don't see Branchala needing CG champions at all if ever. Though since Branchala is one of the cheif gods as far as the elves are concerned I'd say that if a Holy Liberator existed on Krynn it'd be an elf... actually now that I think about it, considering the state that the elves are in durring the Age of Mortals, maybe Branchala calling a Holy Liberator or two isn't that far fetched.

Hospitaler (DotF) A knighthood of sorts who go around healing those in need. I hope they change the base alignment requirement from 'non-chaotic' to include 'non-evil' because I have a really hard time seeing an evil hospitler, but I digress. These could be a more martial arm of Mishakal's church that is in the Solamnic Auxilery whose goal is to get the wounded out of the heaviest fighting. All in all it can work in DL.

Pious Templar, I have no idea if this is the same as the just plain Templar in Defenders of the Faith so I can't comment.

Sacred Exorcist (DotF) While outsiders are usually left in the background of Dragonlance Campaigns, they by no means have to be, also undead are quite plentiful on Krynn so I could easily see the Exorcists having a place in the various good chruches.

Sacred Fist (DotF) First I must confess that I used the Sacred Fist in my Dragonlance Campaign already. It was a Minotaur Sacred Fist of Sargas who sought out and challenged the party's monk, so I guess its my opinion that they can fit. I just hope they get a major overhaul and are toned down. Back in a high level Campaign in the Realms I saw a Sacred Fist whose hands were effectively +9 for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction, and he wasn't epic level. So long as they have some of their broken abilities taken away I'd say they're good to go. They easily have a place with Majere's clergy or Sargonnas.

Temple Raider of Olidammara (SaS) Well I don't have the book on me but I think it could work if you changed the alignment to suit Hiddukel's clergy.

War Priest (DotF) Yes, very much yes. It gives other races something that can match a Knight of the Rose's troop commanding and bolstering abillities.

I'm a little disapointed an updated Shifter wont be present, but I'm not sure if that's very DL anyway.
#2
zombiegleemax
Apr 23, 2004 16:37:30
Geomancer (MotW) No, nono, NO. While combining divine and arcance magic has been discussed to death with the Mystic Therge, and the general opinion is it can work with Sorcerer/Mystics but not Cleric/Wizards I've have to say that the Geomancer is just... wrong for Dragonlance. The Spell Versitility ability, if its the same as it was for 3.0 kinda flies in the face of everything that's been established about the magics at work on Krynn. Being able to freely choose what stat decides spell DCs, andbeing able to cast arcane magic without arcane spell chance failure is a nono!

I think that a Geomancer could be a barbarian or Kagonesti shaman who subscribes to the view that all ambient magic is one and comes from the earth (see the passage " All Magic is One?" from the SAGA supplement Heroes of Hope). This class could fit the "Elder" Kagonesti shaman character from Nancy Verian Berberick's The Lioness.
#3
Dragonhelm
Apr 23, 2004 16:53:31 The shugenja and void disciple are, of course, from Legend of the Five Rings, seen in the Oriental Adventures 3rd edition book. Considering the type of magic they deal in (shugenja are elemental, void disciple is...void), I'm not sure those fit DL.

The Black Flame Zealot is from the Forgotten Realms Unapproachable East book. That may fit DL, but it would be a bit difficult. Either the DLCS or AoM mentions the use of black flame by dwarves...somewhere. I don't remember the specifics. Probably, such a character would be a follower of Sirrion or maybe Sargonnas. Not sure on the fit on this one.

It would be great if some DL fan did an article showing how these classes fit in DL. I wonder who would take on such a task...

*eyes Jacen Solo* :D
#4
zombiegleemax
Apr 25, 2004 22:40:32
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
The shugenja and void disciple are, of course, from Legend of the Five Rings, seen in the Oriental Adventures 3rd edition book. Considering the type of magic they deal in (shugenja are elemental, void disciple is...void), I'm not sure those fit DL.

The Black Flame Zealot is from the Forgotten Realms Unapproachable East book. That may fit DL, but it would be a bit difficult. Either the DLCS or AoM mentions the use of black flame by dwarves...somewhere. I don't remember the specifics. Probably, such a character would be a follower of Sirrion or maybe Sargonnas. Not sure on the fit on this one.

It would be great if some DL fan did an article showing how these classes fit in DL. I wonder who would take on such a task...

*eyes Jacen Solo* :D

Heh heh. Give me the money to actually buy the book first, and I *SO* will.

I don't know anything about Void Disciples, but shugenja might be able to fit, with some tinkering. Shugenja are spontaneous divine casters who choose an elemental affinity-type-thingie, are they not? Just make it a person who tried to learn sorcery, instead had an affinity for mysticism, and applied their sorcery training to mysticism. How's that work?
#5
Dragonhelm
Apr 25, 2004 23:21:17
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
Heh heh. Give me the money to actually buy the book first, and I *SO* will.

Oh, sure, throw that technicality in there. ;)

I don't know anything about Void Disciples, but shugenja might be able to fit, with some tinkering. Shugenja are spontaneous divine casters who choose an elemental affinity-type-thingie, are they not? Just make it a person who tried to learn sorcery, instead had an affinity for mysticism, and applied their sorcery training to mysticism. How's that work?

It's a bit more complicated than that. The shugenja draw power from the kami, which are basically elemental spirits. Now, Complete Divine may show a different take on this. Void is the 5th element, and is supposed to be the binding force between them all, IIRC. Something to that effect at least.

The shugenja have 3 areas where they draw spells - their school (not to be confused with wizard schools), their element, and a general catch-all list.

Perhaps the way to go about it would be to give the mystic two domains, one to replace the school (being a mystic-only domain) and the other being elemental, with the remaining spell list being the cleric/mystic list. You may want to drop the domain powers to keep balance.

You have to be careful when doing this, though, as you run the chance of losing what makes a shugenja special. Certainly, their connection to the kami is akin to the WoHS' connection to the moons.
#6
green_giant_02
Apr 28, 2004 1:39:45 Radiant Servant of Pelor and Shining Blade of Heironeous are from Dragon Magazine #283. (It also contained two other deity specific PrCs, Fleet Runner of Ehlonna and Mighty Contender of Kord). The Shining Blade is a good match for Kiri-Jolith, you just have to tweak one of its abilities. In the magazine it allowed an individual to enhance his weapon with special abilities namely, shock, holy and brilliant energy at different levels. DL Shining Blade might need to change the shock ability to defending ability since Kiri-Jolith wields Sacred Defender as his weapon.

Ur-Priest is from Book of Vile Darkness and it allows a priest to steal energy from a god to cast his own spells without any divine supervision.

Rainbow Servant sounds like the monstrous PrC Follower of the Skyserpent that serve the couatl from Dragon Magazine #307 but I'm probably way off track.

Favored Soul is from the Miniature's Handbook.

That just leaves Divine Crusader, Entropomancer, Evangelist and Seeker of the Misty Isle as new divine PrC. Although the Evangelist sounds like the campaign neutral version of the Righteous Zealot PrC from DLCS.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Nived Apr 21, 2004 12:38:19	In another thread, namely this one, we are shown a list of what PrCs will be in Complete Divine. Since many of these PrCs are 3.5 updates, and we already know the flavor of them. I thought that now, before the book is released, we could start the inevitable discussion on how they fit into the Dragonlance setting, if they do at all. Core CLasses Favored Soul Shugenja Spirit Shaman Prestige CLasses Black Flame Zealot Blighter Church Inquisitor Consecrated Harrier Contemplative Divine Crusader Divine Oracle Entropomancer Evangelist Geomancer Holy Liberator Hospitaler Pious Templar Radiant Servant of Pelor Rainbow Servant Sacred Exorcist Sacred Fist Seeker of the Misty Isle Shining Blade of Heironeous Temple Raider of Olidammara Ur-Priest Void Disciple Warpriest Many of these are from Defenders of the Faith, Masters of the Wild, and I see at least one from Song and Silence, but some of these are unfamilar to me. I'll just go down what I know. Blighter (MotW), actually I've already given this one some thought since I like the class as a villian when I run game. A blighter could easily be a Druid of Habbakuk or Chislev who fell and now gains their power from Morgion. Since blights on plantlife are technically a disease I supose they fall under Morgion's domain, though Undead Wildshape might be hard to explain, as would be animate Undead animal, since both of these would suggest kinship with Chemosh. So perhaps blighters patrons could be either Morgion or Chemosh. I don't think Zeboim would sponcer Blighters, since Zeboim is one of the Druidic deities and Blighters are the anti-druid. Church Inquisitor (DotF) Like the Inquisitor in the DLCS I think it has a place in Dragonlance, especially in games durring the Kingpriest's reign, though it'd be hard to imagine many of them keeping their clerical magic. Consecrated Harrier (DotF) See Church Inquisitor Contemplative (DotF) A cleric that strives to be more like their patron diety to the point of gaining outsider traits. I can easily see this PrC woring for followers of Majere, Gilean, or Zivilyn, but really I could see clerics of any deity going for this one. Divine Oracle (DotF) Absolutely perfect for Zivilyn's clerics. Geomancer (MotW) No, nono, NO. While combining divine and arcance magic has been discussed to death with the Mystic Therge, and the general opinion is it can work with Sorcerer/Mystics but not Cleric/Wizards I've have to say that the Geomancer is just... wrong for Dragonlance. The Spell Versitility ability, if its the same as it was for 3.0 kinda flies in the face of everything that's been established about the magics at work on Krynn. Being able to freely choose what stat decides spell DCs, andbeing able to cast arcane magic without arcane spell chance failure is a nono! Holy Liberator (DotF) The Chaotic Good Paladin PrC, I supose it could work, though even more rare than paladins... the problem is I don't see Branchala needing CG champions at all if ever. Though since Branchala is one of the cheif gods as far as the elves are concerned I'd say that if a Holy Liberator existed on Krynn it'd be an elf... actually now that I think about it, considering the state that the elves are in durring the Age of Mortals, maybe Branchala calling a Holy Liberator or two isn't that far fetched. Hospitaler (DotF) A knighthood of sorts who go around healing those in need. I hope they change the base alignment requirement from 'non-chaotic' to include 'non-evil' because I have a really hard time seeing an evil hospitler, but I digress. These could be a more martial arm of Mishakal's church that is in the Solamnic Auxilery whose goal is to get the wounded out of the heaviest fighting. All in all it can work in DL. Pious Templar, I have no idea if this is the same as the just plain Templar in Defenders of the Faith so I can't comment. Sacred Exorcist (DotF) While outsiders are usually left in the background of Dragonlance Campaigns, they by no means have to be, also undead are quite plentiful on Krynn so I could easily see the Exorcists having a place in the various good chruches. Sacred Fist (DotF) First I must confess that I used the Sacred Fist in my Dragonlance Campaign already. It was a Minotaur Sacred Fist of Sargas who sought out and challenged the party's monk, so I guess its my opinion that they can fit. I just hope they get a major overhaul and are toned down. Back in a high level Campaign in the Realms I saw a Sacred Fist whose hands were effectively +9 for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction, and he wasn't epic level. So long as they have some of their broken abilities taken away I'd say they're good to go. They easily have a place with Majere's clergy or Sargonnas. Temple Raider of Olidammara (SaS) Well I don't have the book on me but I think it could work if you changed the alignment to suit Hiddukel's clergy. War Priest (DotF) Yes, very much yes. It gives other races something that can match a Knight of the Rose's troop commanding and bolstering abillities. I'm a little disapointed an updated Shifter wont be present, but I'm not sure if that's very DL anyway.
#2 zombiegleemax Apr 23, 2004 16:37:30	Geomancer (MotW) No, nono, NO. While combining divine and arcance magic has been discussed to death with the Mystic Therge, and the general opinion is it can work with Sorcerer/Mystics but not Cleric/Wizards I've have to say that the Geomancer is just... wrong for Dragonlance. The Spell Versitility ability, if its the same as it was for 3.0 kinda flies in the face of everything that's been established about the magics at work on Krynn. Being able to freely choose what stat decides spell DCs, andbeing able to cast arcane magic without arcane spell chance failure is a nono! I think that a Geomancer could be a barbarian or Kagonesti shaman who subscribes to the view that all ambient magic is one and comes from the earth (see the passage " All Magic is One?" from the SAGA supplement Heroes of Hope). This class could fit the "Elder" Kagonesti shaman character from Nancy Verian Berberick's The Lioness.
#3 Dragonhelm Apr 23, 2004 16:53:31	The shugenja and void disciple are, of course, from Legend of the Five Rings, seen in the Oriental Adventures 3rd edition book. Considering the type of magic they deal in (shugenja are elemental, void disciple is...void), I'm not sure those fit DL. The Black Flame Zealot is from the Forgotten Realms Unapproachable East book. That may fit DL, but it would be a bit difficult. Either the DLCS or AoM mentions the use of black flame by dwarves...somewhere. I don't remember the specifics. Probably, such a character would be a follower of Sirrion or maybe Sargonnas. Not sure on the fit on this one. It would be great if some DL fan did an article showing how these classes fit in DL. I wonder who would take on such a task... eyes Jacen Solo :D
#4 zombiegleemax Apr 25, 2004 22:40:32	Originally posted by Dragonhelm The shugenja and void disciple are, of course, from Legend of the Five Rings, seen in the Oriental Adventures 3rd edition book. Considering the type of magic they deal in (shugenja are elemental, void disciple is...void), I'm not sure those fit DL. The Black Flame Zealot is from the Forgotten Realms Unapproachable East book. That may fit DL, but it would be a bit difficult. Either the DLCS or AoM mentions the use of black flame by dwarves...somewhere. I don't remember the specifics. Probably, such a character would be a follower of Sirrion or maybe Sargonnas. Not sure on the fit on this one. It would be great if some DL fan did an article showing how these classes fit in DL. I wonder who would take on such a task... eyes Jacen Solo :D Heh heh. Give me the money to actually buy the book first, and I SO will. I don't know anything about Void Disciples, but shugenja might be able to fit, with some tinkering. Shugenja are spontaneous divine casters who choose an elemental affinity-type-thingie, are they not? Just make it a person who tried to learn sorcery, instead had an affinity for mysticism, and applied their sorcery training to mysticism. How's that work?
#5 Dragonhelm Apr 25, 2004 23:21:17	Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007 *Heh heh. Give me the money to actually buy the book first, and I SO* will.** Oh, sure, throw that technicality in there. ;) I don't know anything about Void Disciples, but shugenja might be able to fit, with some tinkering. Shugenja are spontaneous divine casters who choose an elemental affinity-type-thingie, are they not? Just make it a person who tried to learn sorcery, instead had an affinity for mysticism, and applied their sorcery training to mysticism. How's that work? It's a bit more complicated than that. The shugenja draw power from the kami, which are basically elemental spirits. Now, Complete Divine may show a different take on this. Void is the 5th element, and is supposed to be the binding force between them all, IIRC. Something to that effect at least. The shugenja have 3 areas where they draw spells - their school (not to be confused with wizard schools), their element, and a general catch-all list. Perhaps the way to go about it would be to give the mystic two domains, one to replace the school (being a mystic-only domain) and the other being elemental, with the remaining spell list being the cleric/mystic list. You may want to drop the domain powers to keep balance. You have to be careful when doing this, though, as you run the chance of losing what makes a shugenja special. Certainly, their connection to the kami is akin to the WoHS' connection to the moons.
#6 green_giant_02 Apr 28, 2004 1:39:45	Radiant Servant of Pelor and Shining Blade of Heironeous are from Dragon Magazine #283. (It also contained two other deity specific PrCs, Fleet Runner of Ehlonna and Mighty Contender of Kord). The Shining Blade is a good match for Kiri-Jolith, you just have to tweak one of its abilities. In the magazine it allowed an individual to enhance his weapon with special abilities namely, shock, holy and brilliant energy at different levels. DL Shining Blade might need to change the shock ability to defending ability since Kiri-Jolith wields Sacred Defender as his weapon. Ur-Priest is from Book of Vile Darkness and it allows a priest to steal energy from a god to cast his own spells without any divine supervision. Rainbow Servant sounds like the monstrous PrC Follower of the Skyserpent that serve the couatl from Dragon Magazine #307 but I'm probably way off track. Favored Soul is from the Miniature's Handbook. That just leaves Divine Crusader, Entropomancer, Evangelist and Seeker of the Misty Isle as new divine PrC. Although the Evangelist sounds like the campaign neutral version of the Righteous Zealot PrC from DLCS.