Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lincoln_hills Apr 21, 2004 20:48:31	If you're not familiar with Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed , this particular idea will whiz right past you. But for those of you who've seen the product in question, has anybody thought of using the class and spellcasting rules presented there to re-develop their Birthright campaigns? Brecht unfettered, Vos totem warriors, and - of course - the ever-loving Champions of (name of your PC's realm here!) I didn't notice until I came across my old Birthright stuff, but a conversion to 3.AU might be a good deal easier than switching things over to either of the WotC versions...
#2 zombiegleemax May 07, 2004 16:40:19	hm... Intruiging... I shall think about this... Just got to find that old boxes of mine
#3 lincoln_hills May 14, 2004 16:10:50	I disagree with the recent Dragon suggestion that Blooded should be a feat: it's more like a template (usually inherited, sometimes acquired) - a PC can start with Tainted (no LA) or Minor (LA +1) and work his way up via bloodtheft. The template would, of course, be a prerequisite for taking levels of Magister: if you're REALLY strict you could even make the template a prerequisite for any Complex Spells, Exotic Spell or Unique Spell feat. (Though that WILL gimp other spellcasters a bit, it's truer to the source material.) The analogs of Cerilian culture and the AU classes are fairly clear-cut. Naturally, you'd have to develop Cerilian races rather than use the AU ones... though you could swap out loresong faen for the Cerilian halfling and few would be the wiser. The giants of Cerilia could also be swapped for the AU version with only minimal rewriting - though they'd be more primitive and clannish than those from a Diamond Throne campaign. Most of the gear in AU is a bit exotic for my taste - dire weapons and articulated shields don't feel very Cerilian. On the other hand, the mastersmiths of Anuire would very probably have developed some of the articulated plate armors from AU, while many of the more exotic arms there would look right at place in the hands of some Vos varsk-cavalry or the soldiers of The Serpent. AU has the most flexible and innovative magic system I've seen - even the most basic caster has access to three different versions of each spell, and can alter/enhance the spells further with a few feats. Best of all, the high-level effects (while impressive) are a lot less game-breaking than, say, teleport without error, harm or mass haste. Their great flexibility and colorful nature really seems to fit better into Birthright than the standard PH stuff...
#4 irdeggman May 18, 2004 8:49:49	Originally posted by Lincoln Hills [b]I disagree with the recent Dragon suggestion that Blooded should be a feat: it's more like a template (usually inherited, sometimes acquired) - a PC can start with Tainted (no LA) or Minor (LA +1) and work his way up via bloodtheft. I agree with the not using the Dragon version feat type system. But using level adjusted templates is now becoming old news. The recent trend is to use class instead. Check the following links to the savage progression threads at the WotC. Savage Progressions: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a http://www.wizards.com/dnd/archive.asp?x=dnd/sp,3 Which was one of the reasons that the BRCS revised Chap 2 went to a scion class level system. It also allows playing a level adjusted character at 1st level. BRCS- Chap 2 (revised and sanctioned version) http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2346 pdf File: http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=25154 Here is a link to a write up of the Spider using a UA bloodline-based build (not the AU stuff but interesting none the less). The second attachment contains the UA-type awnsheghlien build. (Also from Birthright.net): http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=26798
#5 zombiegleemax May 18, 2004 17:21:01	AU has the most flexible and innovative magic system I've seen - even the most basic caster has access to three different versions of each spell, and can alter/enhance the spells further with a few feats. Best of all, the high-level effects (while impressive) are a lot less game-breaking than, say, teleport without error, harm or mass haste. Their great flexibility and colorful nature really seems to fit better into Birthright than the standard PH stuff... I just checked this magic system out, and I must agree. I'll use these rules from now on in my Birthright campaign. They're great. - Azulthar
#6 zombiegleemax Jun 16, 2004 16:33:52	Can't imagine why you would need to alter the Blooded regent rule to be compatable with 3rd edition i believe in the majority of cases blood powers and feats can work side by side, plus blood powers are bestowed upon the person not learned.
#7 irdeggman Jun 17, 2004 4:39:26	Originally posted by eindatadog Can't imagine why you would need to alter the Blooded regent rule to be compatable with 3rd edition i believe in the majority of cases blood powers and feats can work side by side, plus blood powers are bestowed upon the person not learned. It depends on whether or not you are playing a 3/3.5 game or not. If you are then the CR/EL system severely breaks down when blooded regents are introduced. They gain (from 2nd ed) blood abilities, bonus hit points and starting equipment (usually a magic item in a magic item poor world). These benes bump up their EL/CR substantially so something needs to be done to account for that. Giving them a flat LA pretty much restricts play of a 1st level setting since any starting regent would be the equivalent of a 2nd-3rd level character and it would be blatently unfair to other players to allow one character to start at a higher level than they can. This was the main reason for the BRCS going to a scion class system. Even though the scion class is different from the Savage Species classes in that it progresses more as a normal class (i.e., skill points, hit points, etc. with each level) it comes close to a good approximation. The logic in making it more of a 'real' class was for playability - most players would really not want to play an 'empty' class level and the scion class levels don't gain as much per level as a class as do the standard classes.
#8 zombiegleemax Jun 17, 2004 15:14:31	I understand what you mean by using prestige classes to represent blooded regents and there powers. Maybe later in the campaign i'll discover some major flaws with how i've dealt with the issues of feats and blood powers. Though at the moment we play through the domain turns so fast most of the adventure actions are just that, actions, so far i havn't had a poblem. Unfortanatly i can not lay my hands on a copy of BRCS so if anyone has links to a readable site it would be appreciated.
#9 zombiegleemax Jun 17, 2004 15:27:18	For only a month now we have been playing Birthright as it is straight out of the box, i have found it interesting how a group of players have adapted so fast from dungeon crawling to playing nearly just all domain actions, i have enjoyed running the game so far with the interaction between players who are used to normally adventuring together and now to out right disagreements constantly and schemes and backstabbing. I thought this may be an impersonal way of roleplaying but has turned out to be far more dangerous and exciting, i am worried about keeping up with the PC regents but so far it has worked fine. I was wondering if anyone else has run this kind of campaign, maybe you could pass on some tips.
#10 irdeggman Jun 17, 2004 16:00:13	Originally posted by eindatadog I understand what you mean by using prestige classes to represent blooded regents and there powers. Maybe later in the campaign i'll discover some major flaws with how i've dealt with the issues of feats and blood powers. Though at the moment we play through the domain turns so fast most of the adventure actions are just that, actions, so far i havn't had a poblem. Unfortanatly i can not lay my hands on a copy of BRCS so if anyone has links to a readable site it would be appreciated. Here are some links: BRCS-playtest: http://www.birthright.net/download/brcs-playtest.pdf Revised Chap 2 (sanctioned version): http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=25154 Revised Chap 1 (for discussion): http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=24889 Revised (revised) Chap 1 classes – out for discussion: http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=27432
#11 zombiegleemax Jun 18, 2004 9:26:31	Well, it's more like a side-note... Anyone thought about integrating that D&D mini book in a birthright campaign? There's a section about mass combat... And adding skirmishes can be interesting, it can easily be used to jump start an adventure. It would be interesting to replace the warfare rules of Birthright with D&D mini stuff. There are a lot of consideration though... Any thoughts?
#12 irdeggman Jun 21, 2004 9:18:25	Don't have it. But if I was going to use a non-core D&D book (i.e., not the main three) {which is what the BRCS is limited to}, I'd use Skip Williams' Cry Havoc.
#13 zombiegleemax Jul 05, 2004 12:11:36	Being blooded should be a adjusted template not a feat or a prc.It's something you are or are not.You shouldn't be allowed to take feats or levels to improve your blood score or gain powers thats what blood theft is for.Blooded abilities should be random not chosen feats.The new dragon article leaves the AZRAI bloodlines in the lurch you were supposed to change the more you used your powers which was left up to the Dm.They should have just had done a couple of awnshegh villians and left the feat based blood lines in the trash where they belonged.
#14 ranger_reg Jul 06, 2004 16:59:25	While that's one way to do it, it leaves the non-Blooded folk at a disadvantage. But if that's the way you prefer (Blooded is mo' bettah), then you shouldn't have a problem.
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 06, 2004 19:24:44	Non-blooded folk are at a disadvantage thats just a fact of life in Cerilia.That's why blooded scions rule the world.Think of it like a Xmen-like RPG with the choice of being a mutant "blooded" or a regular human why would you play a regular human when the game is geared for mutants "blooded" PC's.I read in birthright sometimes a non-blooded person becomes blooded after he kills a aweshegh sometimes "DM's call though."
#16 ranger_reg Jul 07, 2004 16:59:58	I guess that's why BR didn't survive.
#17 algolei_dup Jul 08, 2004 11:41:20	I sincerely doubt that's the reason.
#18 goodkingjayiii Jul 26, 2004 13:02:46	Originally posted by Lincoln Hills [b]I disagree with the recent Dragon suggestion that Blooded should be a feat: I don't know much about Birthright, but it sounds to me like Blooded should be a feat. Specifically, a Talent. It forces spellcasters with a Truename to take this feat (otherwise they can't cast spells). Those who are Unbound can take another Talent like Signature Spell or Spell Artist, making Unbound spellcasters powerful individuals in their own right, but they still suffer the normal penalties of being Unbound. That may or may not fit the campaign setting, though.
#19 irdeggman Jul 29, 2004 10:40:38	Originally posted by GoodKingJayIII I don't know much about Birthright, but it sounds to me like Blooded should be a feat. Specifically, a Talent. It forces spellcasters with a Truename to take this feat (otherwise they can't cast spells). Those who are Unbound can take another Talent like Signature Spell or Spell Artist, making Unbound spellcasters powerful individuals in their own right, but they still suffer the normal penalties of being Unbound. That may or may not fit the campaign setting, though. Here is how Birthright defined restrictions on magic (arcane) in 2nd ed; Only those who were blooded or had elven blood (elves and half-elves) could cast greater magic. Magic was broken down into lesser and greater. Lesser was all spells from Illusion and Divination schools and up to 2nd level spells from all of the other schools. Keeping within this BR theme (actually it is important for setting definition) requiring the system you talk about (without looking at the books, this is only based on your comments) then humans become overly restricted by having to take the feat to cast spells and also having to have a truename.