Basically the SK have become aware of the existence of the realms, perhaps through Dregoth's plane hopping, or some other series of events. I haven't exactly figured out this part of the story, but it isn't super important.
They see the realms as a huge wealth of resources, natural resources, slave resources, metals, etc. Therefore... it must be conquered.
One segment of the campaign is going to be epic, where the players can bust out their high (to very high) leveled characters to help uncover the threat, rally the power groups of the realms, make some strategic attacks into Athas, and assist in the eventual defense of the realms during the invasion.
The other segment is not epic, where two PC spies have been sent to infiltrate Athasian society and military to the point where they can gain information critical to the defense of the realms.
I know that there are elements that make this whole campaign silly, such as the population differences and the equipment advantage, but I think some of that will be overcome by the naturally higher stats of the average athasian combined with the high number of psionic wild talents. And I'm hoping the appeal of the story will make people look past this kind of thing.
I'm using a dark sun setting where none of the dragon kings have been killed, e.g. Kalak is still alive, etc. I'm using the more complete list of SK's from the revised boxed set, Oronis likely being a potential ally for the realms. I've made a leap bringing back Sielba, postulating that perhaps Hamanu kept her as a prisoner instead of slaying her when Urik destroyed her city. I figure that a high number of epic SKs would be needed to offset the chosen of mystra, epic mages of thay, shade, and halruaa, etc. I realize that Dregoth didn't make his status known until after the prism pentad events, but I want to make sure to include him because he's such a great fit with the Cult of the Dragon.. undead dragon looking to become a diety.. cult of followers worshipping undead dragons..
I'm also planning on adding some high leveled followers of the SK's, apprentices and the like that will be prominent generals / NPC's in the campaign. One of which is going to be advanced into a dragon (by the combined forces of the SK's) into the bestial stage and set to run loose in Evermeet. I think the elven high mages would find him a strong distraction to say the least.
Anyway, what I'm looking for are hooks I can use for getting the two spies involved into the city, currently they have been sent over, captured and sold to slavery, and are currently fighting as gladiators, the plan is to eventually have them drafted into the military as the dragon kings mobilize their armies on command from Borys, I also need to give them the opportunity to rise high enough in the ranks (assassinations weeeee) to get really good strategic information on the combined forces of the SK's.
For those familiar with Feist's Serpentwar saga, I was inspired by the overarching story in those books, preparing a nation for invasion by powerful forces, etc.
That said, the armies should be enormous, but their training, equipment, make up, and order vary from SK to SK. Hamanu's army should be practically unbeatable, especially if he's leading it. Probably the only thing that would save the Realms is the access to the Powers.
First the pc's heard rumors of strange beasts rampaging across the land- these were DS critters sent by Kalak and watched by agents to see how easy or hard it would be to take the land.
Then I had the pc's come across a sacked outpost where nothing metal remained but there were bone/stone weapons lying about. Another test.
The Pc's had to chase down sages, consult a lich, and do other tasks before they started to get a real clue about what was going on. By then others had taken an interest and began shadowing the pc's.
Eventually the pc's discovered a "hole" that connected the two worlds. The hole was created by the pc's in an earlier campaign, but that's another story. The size of the hole restricted what could come out and the rate, otherwise Greyhawk woulda been toast early on. Another advantage of this was the SK had to rely on agents because their normal powers were more or less blocked by the influence of the spheres (but templars still had their powers).
The upshot was the pc's wound up dealing with high level templars of each city-state (they never saw the SKs) and set them against each other. Then the pc's convinced some slave tribes to help by promising uncontested freedom and lands in greyhawk all to themselves.
the entire campaign turned very political around level 12 with traitors everywhere (DS and Greyhawk) trying to gain favor with what they saw as the new rulers of Oerth.
tons o fun. it took my players from level 1 all the way to 18 and they never faced a SK. towards the end they did gather armies and such (Iuz's fighting next to Shield Landers- a whole other depth of political intrigue) and some pc's had to destroy an obsidian orb in the middle of the "hole" to close it.....but that space will always be weakened and you can bet your sweet aunt bessy the SKs have not forgotten the wealth on the other side.
While the WoTC given versions of Eliminster, Khelben, etc. are relatively under-powered, even using those stats I would expect them to be strong enough that any two or three could pose a significant threat to a SK.
The populations, and therefore potential military strength, of the realms is significantly larger than that of the city states of dark sun isn't it?
I could easily be mistaken in my perceptions.
Also some more detail, this is a going to be a long running series of adventures. The first hint the PC's got was when reports started coming in concerning missing arms shipments, they investigated, expecting brigands, and were unable to discover anything of the sort, long story short, their detective work drew the attention of some of the SKs sleeper agents operating within the realms.
While this was going on, some interesting things were happening in the Undermountain, instead of kobolds and goos in the upper levels, people are encountering pit fiends and the like. Apparently Halaster has forseen some of the coming conflict and is making preparations to dig in and wait for it to end. The epic PC's get enlisted to help with this, and eventually make contact with Halaster where he gives them some nuggets of useful information, mixed with some pretty obscure ramblings..."Dragons!!! not dragons!!"
The SK's have some big artifact that's supposedly going to let them move massive amounts of their armies all at once into the realms, with the expectation that they can overwhelm major centers of power simultanously, the epic leveled PC's are going to be tasked with finding and destroying this artifact. This isn't going to stop the invasion, just slow it down as they are forced to use more conventional means.
The PC spies are expected to level quite a bit during the gladiator segment, I'm envisioning a multi-SK division of the military that's under the direction of Borys himself and responsible for organizing and unifying the diverse armies of the SK's. This is how they are going to be exposed to the top-secret goodies the realms need to know, and it's how they're going to come into contact with Oronis and potentially recruit him to the side of the Realms.
The conclusion of this thing is probably going to be a big all out war, with the PC's coordinating much of the combined armies of the realms, as they're the most familiar with the tactics and capabilities of the DS armies. While this is going on, I'm thinking there will be some kind of super high DC ritual epic spell, requiring the combined efforts of many of the power figures of the realms, as well as the epic level PC's, that will somehow sunder the pathways between the two worlds.
Are there any kinds of stated or implied limits to how many Templar a given SK can have, besides "One less than could overthrow him?"
Originally posted by Kicker
Not only epic-level spell-casters, not only epic-level psions, not only evolved beyond all human(oid) standards, but also able to grant those who worship them (significant!) divine spell casting ability.
Are there any kinds of stated or implied limits to how many Templar a given SK can have, besides "One less than could overthrow him?"
Not officially, but I've been thinking about making limits. AFIAK there isn't really any material at all that backs it up. Techically, they could have an army of 50,000 templars come marching across a battlefield.
How many Templar do they have, generally? I think we can agree that any theoretical maximum (if it exists) could be significantly higher than that. Exactly how much is a matter of how hard you want the fight to be. Obviously the more clerics in an army, the bigger a problem that army becomes (to a point).
Thahikis, from Dragon Lance, heres about the invasion, and comes to make the SK's worhsip her with some of her beefiest dragon servants... forms a temporary alliance with the PC's, kicks the SK's ass back to DS, then invades DS with a Draconian army....
Anyway, another possible ally for the Realms may be Hamanu. He never really did fit in, and of them all he would most definatly exercise the most restraint with the dragon magic. If the heroes could learn of his unique condition and offer him a way to permanently halt the metamorphosis, they would almost certainly manage to turn the potentially most lethal DK against the rest, and certainly the most militarily powerful. In exchange he would almost certainly take over some area and likely intend to conquer and expand, but you never know, right?
I dunno, if you were Hamanu, what would your motivations be? I can see him turning against the rest if offered some sort of cessation. I guess that's not really that likely though. Some possible scary thing would be attacking Hamanu in such a manner that he's forced to start using massive amounts of magic.
Picture this.
Hamanu likely will be leading the most deadly and effective army. So the realms heroes, being heroes, think that taking him out first is paramount, y'know take the biggest threat first. So they team up and attack him with all they got. In the battle he's forced to use way more magic than he likes, but they keep on coming. As a result, he manages to take out a sizeable number of the realms' premier defenders, and also is forcibly transformed further, to the point he loses control like rajaat intended, and starts rampaging, except on faerun instead of athas. Borys is the only one who knows what's happening, or is the first ot realize what happened, and makes a run for it. Maybe after Hamanu rips through another of the DKs, showing just how powerful and dangerous he is, both to the realms heroes and to the other DKs who had no idea. Then the rest scurry back to Athas and the realms heroes are left to try and stop Hamanu, now completely out of control, creating large swaths of lifelessness and more dangerous than the original invasion was. Maybe when Hamanu goes raging the other DKs just think he's doing what Borys and Kalid-Ma did, and think they can easily stop him (especially with Borys' help), ambush to attack him, and then he hands their butts to them, and those that survive run back to athas, leaving the realms to deal with rajaat's legacy.
nick
I really like the "leave athas to rajaat" idea, definitely going to include that somehow.
On the topic of SKs versus realms Epic PCs. Yes, I would say the SKs have to be between levels 40 and 50, with 20 defiler and 20 psionicist with some additional levels of a "dragon" prestige class. That makes them incredibly potent obviously. However, I just don't see why it would be such a walk in the park for them. They get the same 9th level spells as a 18th level wizard, of which the realms has to have literally hundereds and hundereds between Thay, Halruaa, Nimbrul, Evermeet, etc. I would expect the major NPC's like Elminster to be protected against many of the psionic threats through their use of epic spells of warding over the years. Not to mention the abundance of magical items in the realms, far beyond any collection the SKs have combined.
There are certainly some very powerful psionic enhancements that I'm planning on having the SKs use, and they are definitely going to be major badasses, but with only so many spells per day, the defiling is going to be somewhat contained, and perhaps the SKs aren't in such a rush to consume this world and create a replica of what they were leaving behind.
Just tossing out ideas for discussion, that will help me figure out how to handle the power levels of the SKs in my adventures.
Thanks again
Honestly, this could happen in almost any campaign setting, not just FR. Dragonlance would suffer a similar fate (Oh! so Gellidius & Onysablet think they are top dogs on the dragon line-up, since every other dragon more powerful than them, including the two dragon gods are now dead.... wait ill they get a load of the Sorcerer-Monarchs!), especially in a setting where gods can be fought, defeated, and replaced by mortls (who better than a Sorcerer-Monarch to challenge a god and become one in his place?) Planescape & Ravenloft could be two of the least affected ones, however... Imagine a Sorcerer-Monarch wandering the planes causing havoc. Oh, wait, that's what Dregoth had been doing already. And there's Ravenloft - and you';d have to ask, who'd really be in charge there, the Dark Powers or the Sorcerer-Kings? I'd guarentee that little ol' vampire Strahd von Zarovitch wouldn't last 2 seconds against any one of the Sorcerer-Monarchs. He'd look at them funny and he'd be nothing but a pile of soot & ash. Same for Azalin-Rex, or any other darklord. Or maybe Greyhawk - yet another typical fantasy setting which is ripe for conquest by Sorcerer-Monarchs.
bringing them to any other setting, we're talking about something that's far more devistating to that world than any Githyanki invasion could ever dream of being. Sorcerer-Monarchs raiding another world, would give them the opportunity to see that they could waste one world and move onto another (which some would just love to do), their defiling practices could be used without restraint (because there's always another world out there), and would annihilate everything. They would be the apocalypse for any of the worlds they would go to. And let's not even imagine what would happen if they trained others in defiling magic.
Also, Borys. Do I really need to say anything else? Borys would eat Takahisis - I've actually done a mock-combat before to get an idea. Frankly, the fact that he can cast spells, physically attack, and use psionics in the same round (not to mention doing things like splitting his mind, hasting, etc) and you've got a holy terror.
As has been stated by others, the Tyr region has been, at best, in a state of cold war for multiple millenia. The average Athasian is just going to be a naturally tougher, more devious, and generally ornery cuss than someone from a softer world. The mechanical aspects of this are covered by LA, but I think that there is a social aspect, a willingness and readiness to use overwhelming violence universal to Athasians that will serve them extremely well in the campaign to come.
In fact, that answers one of my biggest concerns: Size. The Realms, compared to the Tablelands, are IMMENSE, and support a population density unheard of in the Tyr region. Since the armies of the SKs would have to keep the portal as their focus, protecting it to their last breath from damage, I was imagining that a coalition of nations could throw soldiers at the problem and create a human wall that kept the Athasians hemmed in. Just leave a sacrifice zone, radius determined by how many people we let them get onto this side before we got our act together. However, now I realize that some of the SKs might do the equivalent of homesteading. Just grab the nearest elf tribe, push 'em through the gate, and wish them the best of luck! Post flyers asking people if they'd like to live in a world with an Ocean of water, soil that grows kisaba melons the size of baazrag, populated by weak simpletons begging you to take it all from them! Of course, I'd imagine many people to be naturally mistrustful.
But conscipts and unwilling volunteers are always an option (hey, they'll thank you later), and once people have gone and come back, seen it for themselves, rumors will take care of the rest. I know that any Merchant House with two bits to rub together will at least give it a chance. And what the hell are the Realms going to do when crazy barbarians have spread, without their knowledge, to the furthest reaches of the land? For that matter, let one crazy SK mix in with them, cast a conditional teleport on himself, and go kill [Insert name of Significant Political Leader here] as a declaration of war, once they're good and ready.As far as the problem and number of epic spellcasters, that's a moot point. If you use a defiling system anything like Dragon's (which, give them some credit, was designed for campaign interoperability in mind), then Athasian Arcane Spellcasters can hopelessly outclass most opponents, even (at times) those of significantly higher level.
Thayan Wizard: "I cast a Maximized Fireball, expending a sixth-level spell slot!"
Athasian Wizard: "I cast a Maximized Baximized Bananafanafofaximized Fireball, expending a third-level spell slot, and laugh maniacally as a free action."
TW: "OMG WTF" *dies*
Of course, I'm sure many Wizards of the Realms (those of Thay in particular) might find Defiling magic very a alluring proposition.
On the matter of Takhisis, I agree Borys would eat even her strongest Avatar in a one-on-one fight, and even in a fight with allies and preparation, but I think that truly killing a God might need a bit more than rolling a few 10d8s for damage. I mean, you'd need at least, what, a 10th level spell?
Of course, any hint of the existence of a "Dragon God(dess)" will have Dregoth perking up his rotting ear-flaps and taking a keen and doubtlessly horrifying interest. If Takhisis posed a threat, it would be because she is a God, and that only another God could oppose her. If this was discovered to be the case, some SKs might actually help Dregoth become that opposing power. Hey, choosing one of their number to ascend to something beyond mortal is nothing new to them! Considering how the last time turned out, I'm sure some would have their doubts, but if given a choice between that or losing their last chance at the fat pickings of Faerun, I know what I'd pick.Finally, on a related topic, another RPG I play extensively is Exalted, which I highly recommend for anyone interested in a cinematic, high-flying action-packed fantasy experience [/plug]. A recent release for that line, called Time of Tumult, detailed the efforts of inhabitants of a demiplane returning to a world that had long forgotten them, and vice versa. In short, the leadership of one of the City-States that inhabit this plane (actually the body of a slumbering god, but whatever) devised a way back. In a distant swamp, the head of their City (actually an advanced being himself, but whatever) pokes out of the muck, and a small scout party, wrapped in protective coverings, blink in amazement at the alien world around them. They take samples of the earth, water, and air, then turn right back around. Over the coming weeks, more scouting missions, ranging further in the swamp. Eventually, civilizations are detected, and spies are sent to gather information, which proves not difficult at all, since no one in the area is yet aware of the war they are already losing.
Like Athas, these people's home plane is poor in resources and, umm, life, so their campaign becomes known as the Locust Crusade, for the way they strip entire cities of all metals, food, and inhabitants. In very short order, without the help of SK-analogues, they conquer a vast swathe of territory. Without PC interference, their conquest peters out when they realize they just don't have enough people to defend a region any larger than the one they hold. A very interesting adventure, and certainly instructive on various points, ie the importance of suprise, the logistics of moving an army via a portal wide enough to accomodate only a few people at a time...If Takhisis posed a threat, it would be because she is a God, and that only another God could oppose her.
That's a good point. Hasn't Takahisis been beaten before, though? Or was that by Paladin (another dragon god)?
The Deities of Dragonlance are divided into three camps split on alignment lines, and they used to fight a lot. Then they wrote a truce. Then the evil Gods (duh) broke the the truce, and tried to do Bad Stuff. Then a bunch of heroes, assisted by the good and occasionally the neutral guys in a variety of ways (some of them quite overt), foiled her plans. Then the true God that made the world woke up and smote all the other Gods mightily, killing them all, though they did get better. Finally, in an alternate future (yes, really), one Wizard got so unbelievably bad-ass that he became the God of magic (killing the original three Gods of same...), and ate, yes, you heard me, literally ate ALL of the other Gods, Tak included.
So yeah, the precedent is set.
Get it? "Bites." Because he ate them, right? Heh, heh. Bite. Heh. Umm.. Hmmmm.. yes.
Have an invasion of athas by FR, or vice versa, during FR's current age but with athas at the start of the Cleansing Wars: all the Champions are there, plus uber general underlings to the Champions, and all the good and bad powerful individuals of the time, not forgetting great and well armed armies of the domains of the time, plus very high psionics sprinkle here and there. A blood bath. ;)
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
That's a good point. Hasn't Takahisis been beaten before, though? Or was that by Paladin (another dragon god)?
Thing to remember with Gods is they have access to not only Epic feats, but Divine feats. The divine handbook makes a point of explaining that the gods presented in the handbook were designed only with 20 levels (usually) and without epic feats so as not to duplicate the epic level handbook (read: make us spend more money on purchasing source books)
So basically, any god, like Thahikis (20 wizard / 20 cleric methinks from an old 2e book) is going to have epic feats, and divine feats - which can assist her ALOT in detecting and avoiding conflict, or creating ambushes. In any case, she, and most non-remote gods also have powerful followers, i would hesitate to suggest probably more numerous that your typical SK due to population differances.
Quiet simply, you average SK is a 20/20 wiz/psion + 1-10 levels in a Dragon prestige class - that's the way i look at it, as i've stated before that in the true flavour of 2e DS. During those 10 levels, they gain access to epic spell casting (if they haven't already got it thanks to having 40+ character levels), size increases, breath weapon, and so forth. Ultimatley, phsically, they are similar to a Wyrm Red Dragon at the end, but with LOADS of levels. Try it, when you do the CR adjustment, a 20 wiz, 20 psio, 10 dragon SK is a CR of around 70. No need for silly extended 'stages' or having four linked 10-level prestige classes. One nice 10-level transformation, as similar to the 2e version as possible makes them all they need to be and more.
Now back to gods - Thahikis, for example, if she is presented like most gods in Deities and Demigods, is probably a 20th level Wizard, plus 20 levels in maybe a preist. That 20 levels, so at the moment she is behind a typical "fully transformed" dragon.
Now add Epic feats... get's a little closer. Now add slightly more followers - Thahikis edges aheads... now consider Divine feats - she clearly has an advantage over a SK now, then finally, consider that she is ALREADY a fully transformed (5 headed!) Dragon, with breath weapon(s) - the CR on that creature alone would be 20+ and you have a non-divine CR 70sk vs Divine CR70+ creature.
A god played correctly should always be able to take out an Epic level character, after all, they are themselves Epic. Way i see it, a SK would be a match for most of the Gods most powerful mortal servants... and as a team, sure they would be a major threat to a god - but let's not forget that SK's are not the only ones with eons of military experience...
Originally posted by Jaanos
Thing to remember with Gods is they have access to not only Epic feats, but Divine feats. The divine handbook makes a point of explaining that the gods presented in the handbook were designed only with 20 levels (usually) and without epic feats so as not to duplicate the epic level handbook (read: make us spend more money on purchasing source books)
Of the Salient Divine Abilities (these Divine Feats you're referring to), several can eventually be duplicated by an epic character, with the right combination of epic feats.
So basically, any god, like Thahikis (20 wizard / 20 cleric methinks from an old 2e book) is going to have epic feats, and divine feats - which can assist her ALOT in detecting and avoiding conflict, or creating ambushes. In any case, she, and most non-remote gods also have powerful followers, i would hesitate to suggest probably more numerous that your typical SK due to population differances.
Takhisis, "The One God" - greater Deity. Probably 20 Cleric/20 Fighter or something, along with 20 HD of Outsider. That makes 60 levels. Of course, there is no CR for deities.
Quiet simply, you average SK is a 20/20 wiz/psion + 1-10 levels in a Dragon prestige class - that's the way i look at it, as i've stated before that in the true flavour of 2e DS. During those 10 levels, they gain access to epic spell casting (if they haven't already got it thanks to having 40+ character levels), size increases, breath weapon, and so forth. Ultimatley, phsically, they are similar to a Wyrm Red Dragon at the end, but with LOADS of levels. Try it, when you do the CR adjustment, a 20 wiz, 20 psio, 10 dragon SK is a CR of around 70. No need for silly extended 'stages' or having four linked 10-level prestige classes. One nice 10-level transformation, as similar to the 2e version as possible makes them all they need to be and more.
That same SK also have a couple enhanced templates placed on him, granting him certian unique powers above 7 beyond that of just being a Dragon. Plus, my own personal Dragon write-ups have them with a bit more power too. They tentd to be around level 40 - 60 themselves.
Now back to gods - Thahikis, for example, if she is presented like most gods in Deities and Demigods, is probably a 20th level Wizard, plus 20 levels in maybe a preist. That 20 levels, so at the moment she is behind a typical "fully transformed" dragon.
I'd not say Wizard - I'd leave the wizard class to the actual gods of magic. And you are forgetting the requisite 20 HD of outsider. Or rather, since she's a Dragon, the 20+ HD of Dragon.
Now add Epic feats... get's a little closer. Now add slightly more followers - Thahikis edges aheads... now consider Divine feats - she clearly has an advantage over a SK now, then finally, consider that she is ALREADY a fully transformed (5 headed!) Dragon, with breath weapon(s) - the CR on that creature alone would be 20+ and you have a non-divine CR 70sk vs Divine CR70+ creature.
There are no CR's for Deities. As is stated in Deities & Demigods. However, there is some extra things you aren't thinking about in this.
A god played correctly should always be able to take out an Epic level character, after all, they are themselves Epic. Way i see it, a SK would be a match for most of the Gods most powerful mortal servants... and as a team, sure they would be a major threat to a god - but let's not forget that SK's are not the only ones with eons of military experience...
This is the problem - there is precidence in Dragonlance for a God being killed by an epic character. I call into this discussion the name of Raistlin. Sure, he was a Wizard, and rather low level. He made a pact with what could only really be defined as a Lich, merged & integrated the memories & mind of that Lich into himself, launched into some serious next-level epic power (I'd guess around level 60 or so. Fistandantilus was a bad mofo). He goes through time, brings his brother & a Cleric of Paladine, seduces her, and uses her to get into Takhisis' own realm. Battles her, and wins - on her own turf. Bam, he becomes a god. he then goes and kills all of the other gods, as they begin to bum-rush him for killing takhisis - all of the gods do, good, neutral & evil. He wipes them all out. He also virtually destroys the world in the process, and it takes the intervention of his brother to stop him (after some more time-travelling). Takhisis won that fight only because Raistlin let her win.
So, an epic character could defeat Takhisis. And I'm sorry, but I think that a Sorcerer-Monarch could kick Raistlin in his little golden buttocks.
Originally posted by Jaanos
Exactly which epic abilities allow an epic character to hear/ see / smell / feel (touch) everything within a 5 miles radius?
Xlor has in his write-ups a Champion and Monarch template that allows Champions (unique beings that can't be reproduced ever again short of Rajaat's intervention) to do exactly that.
This is what I got from the old Champion template that incorporated the Monarch template:
Senses (Su): Champions of Rajaat have incredibly sensitive perception. Their senses extend out to a radious of one mile. Further, the Champion's senses extend 1 more mile for every stage of metamorphosis (dragon or avangion) that they have undergone. Thus, a Stage-2 Dragon Champion of Rajaat would be able to see, hear, touch, and smell at a distance of three miles just as well as a human can perieve things that are close enough to touch. Perception is limited to the senses the Champion possesses. For instance, a Champion cannot see in the dark unless he has darkvision. Nor can he see through solid objects without using some sort of x-ray power.
Granted this is not an ability that can be reproduced for epic characters that aren't Champions. But it dosen't change that those who have the Champion of Rajaat template are epic characters in their own right, even if they're historic and mythic in scope.
Originally posted by Jaanos
Exactly which epic abilities allow an epic character to hear/ see / smell / feel (touch) everything within a 5 miles radius?
I said Salient Divine Abilities. I also didn't say *all* of them. There are a few advantages a deity has. However, my point (and a few others here) was that killing a god by an epic character has been presented & done once for Dragonlance. The situation already has happened. It's one of the fundamental stories that define Dragonlance. so, in the realm of Dragonlance, it's a possibility. and, if Raistlin could have pulled it off, a Sorcereer-Monarch, who has had thousands of years of study and honing of his skills, combined with the awesome array of powers they bring with them, should be able to as well. And I really don't care how many of Takhisis' "hosts" of dragons she brings with her, because I'm pretty certian that any Sorcerer-Monarch could take on ny of Takhisis' dragons on without breaking a sweat. (Can we say.... Meteor Swarm on all the non-reds, draining the life energy of the reds to accomplish it?) Poof, Takhisis' pretty-colored dragons are all ash & soot. And look, now the Socerer-King's really upset. watch as he uses Takhisis' own power against her, while blasting her with all kinds of limitless power (and sucking Krynn dry in the process).
Did anybody stop to think that maybe defling/preserver magic would not work on Toril?
Any SK would see the vast wealth of any world they invade. Instead of destroying it and making the same mistake twice, they would find ways to exploit it. Sure fields will wither. People will die. Cities will burn. But, if that only happens to one area at a time, the region will grow back. It will rain again. Crops will grow again. Slowly over the centuries the SK would conquer the world region by region. After which, there would be a global peace, Pax-Kalak. This peace would last as long as the SK was in power.
I played a mul in the Dragon's Army in Dragonlance. I was a scout/ranger. I rocked!
Does anyone here think it would be a great laugh to send Rajaat into the Dragonlance world, then destroy the gate so he couldn't get back? "Hey Gods of Krynn, you like balance, well, here's some chaos for ya"
:sad:
Why take Dark Sun, and it´s brutality to the Realms?
I hate Forgotten...
Divine Character can (and should) have an appropiate amount of epic feats in conjuction with thier divine abilities. That's the edge they have over 'normal' epic characters, along with outsider HD (unless ascended etc).
Don't get me wrong, a SK is a powerful thing - but they are not gods. Epic, yes. Powerful, damn right. God like - no. Any major power could wipe the SK's, and much thier asses for brunch without cracking a sweat... Raajat..... well... that would be interesting to say the least.
Finally, here's a thought for you. If you beleive that DS world is linked via the outerplanes to other realms, and an SK COULD take on abd beat a god, why then hasn't Dregoth done this and ascended? if he was capable of it, he would have found a puny godling, and stolen his divine spark....
Hey, that's a good plot line....
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I said Salient Divine Abilities. I also didn't say *all* of them. There are a few advantages a deity has. However, my point (and a few others here) was that killing a god by an epic character has been presented & done once for Dragonlance. The situation already has happened. It's one of the fundamental stories that define Dragonlance. so, in the realm of Dragonlance, it's a possibility. and, if Raistlin could have pulled it off, a Sorcereer-Monarch, who has had thousands of years of study and honing of his skills, combined with the awesome array of powers they bring with them, should be able to as well. And I really don't care how many of Takhisis' "hosts" of dragons she brings with her, because I'm pretty certian that any Sorcerer-Monarch could take on ny of Takhisis' dragons on without breaking a sweat. (Can we say.... Meteor Swarm on all the non-reds, draining the life energy of the reds to accomplish it?) Poof, Takhisis' pretty-colored dragons are all ash & soot. And look, now the Socerer-King's really upset. watch as he uses Takhisis' own power against her, while blasting her with all kinds of limitless power (and sucking Krynn dry in the process).
Exactly which epic abilities.... yada yada
Please don't pretend i said things when i didn't,
Cheers
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I said Salient Divine Abilities. I also didn't say *all* of them. There are a few advantages a deity has. However, my point (and a few others here) was that killing a god by an epic character has been presented & done once for Dragonlance. The situation already has happened. It's one of the fundamental stories that define Dragonlance. so, in the realm of Dragonlance, it's a possibility. and, if Raistlin could have pulled it off, a Sorcereer-Monarch, who has had thousands of years of study and honing of his skills, combined with the awesome array of powers they bring with them, should be able to as well. And I really don't care how many of Takhisis' "hosts" of dragons she brings with her, because I'm pretty certian that any Sorcerer-Monarch could take on ny of Takhisis' dragons on without breaking a sweat. (Can we say.... Meteor Swarm on all the non-reds, draining the life energy of the reds to accomplish it?) Poof, Takhisis' pretty-colored dragons are all ash & soot. And look, now the Socerer-King's really upset. watch as he uses Takhisis' own power against her, while blasting her with all kinds of limitless power (and sucking Krynn dry in the process).
1. The Elemental Planes that Athas is linked to seem to be different than those linked to by other Material Planes. That said, would the Elemental Vortices be able to funnel to the SK's the energy required to allow templers spellcasting abilities in another plane?
2. If the SK's were being badly beaten by the combined forces of the Realms, as a last-ditch effort, wouldn't they release Rajaat? The SK's strike me as the type who would say, "If I can't have it than neither can you." What would Rajaat do to the Realms?
Originally posted by Cyrus9a
I know this thread silently passed away a while ago, but.... I have two ideas:
1. The Elemental Planes that Athas is linked to seem to be different than those linked to by other Material Planes. That said, would the Elemental Vortices be able to funnel to the SK's the energy required to allow templers spellcasting abilities in another plane?
I'd say - if they did, there'd be a penalty. I mean, Andropinis' templars aren't on the same plane he is, and well... They're rather inert and stuff.
2. If the SK's were being badly beaten by the combined forces of the Realms, as a last-ditch effort, wouldn't they release Rajaat? The SK's strike me as the type who would say, "If I can't have it than neither can you." What would Rajaat do to the Realms?
I think Rajaat would only see the Realms as a potential source of power for him to escalate even further, to ensure he can complete his Blue Age. Other than that, I don't think he'd really care about the Realms.
Xlorepdarkhelm:
I think Rajaat would only see the Realms as a potential source of power for him to escalate even further, to ensure he can complete his Blue Age. Other than that, I don't think he'd really care about the Realms.
Exactly what I believe as well! He would attempt to suck every bit of the Realms dry to furthur his cause to return Athas to the Blue Age.
As for Rajaat's perspective, my opinion is that he might actually instigate the conflict, knowing the SK's would be lured to the wealth and potential power the realms represent to them, and that the abundance of epic characters on the realms (albeit not on the scale of the SK's themselves) might rid him of some of his captors, thereby improving his chances of release and pursuit of his goals.