In Key of Destiny it states that it is the 12th of Aelmont (January 12th) and that Lunitari is High Sanction (Full). It also says Solinari is High Sanction (Waxing Crescent), and Nuitari is High Sanction (Waxing Gibbous).
Now what first alerted me to something being off is that Lunitari is full on the 12th. But this is impossible thanks to the new calendar invented by Sov. Press to simplify the moon chart (at least I assume that was the reason).
Anywho...as we all know, the Festival of the Eye (which coinsides with the Night of the Eye once every three years exactly) is on 15th of Hiddumont (October 15th). Now...if Lunitari has a 28 day cycle, and the months are 28 days...the moon must be full on the same day of every month. The 15th. Not the 12th.
As it turns out...the other two moons don't match up either. By either counting up 81 days from Hiddumont 15, or by either of the other two years (since the moons altogether are on a 3 year cycle). But I noticed it was close for one of the choices.
So I thought, maybe they are going to retcon the date of the Festival of the Eye by three days. That fixes both Lunitari and Solinari. Unfortunately...if you ever have Nuitari full on the same day as Lunitari in the 10th month...it is impossible for Nuitari to be in High Sanction on the same day as Lunitari in the 1st month (because Nuitari is on a 2 month cycle).
I did a quick search...and I see that this combo does exist at least. But if you have April and October 15th as the days of that the Night of the Eye falls on, then this combo can only exist on April 15th in the year following the Night of the Eye happening on October 15th, and this combo also happens on October 15th in the same year that the Night of the Eye happens on April 15th. I guess, in other words, this combo can only happen exactly 6 months after a Night of the Eye.
So...I guess my question is: What gives? Is the Festival of the Eye being retconned to January 12th or July 12th as the possible dates now?
There's no point in being so precise about the day and moon phases if they aren't going to be right.
Or maybe I'm just a huge arsed geek who needs to go back to his telescope? :D
(EDIT: Oh, but I did notice that the flavor text for the moons was fairly close to correct...a waxing crescent would be pretty high in the sky (but on the down hill slide) while a full moon was just rising. So I wanted to give ya props for that at least. ;))
*takes a deep breath, lets it out slowly*
Nah...
Outta sheer curiosity, where you ever in the Navy, Brimstone? We used to have a comment about people "Nuking" things out...
To be honest, I rolled the dice and stuck with those dates from the get go of writing the adventure, as there's a reason no one has every sat down and produced a day-by-day calender for the moons of Krynn (because in the end, that's really, really, really being a bit too detail oriented, even for someone like me, who's typically a stickler for details). In the end, it doesn't really matter, does it? *laughs* If the DM says he wants a Night of the Eye to occur on the 21st of Aelmont, then the Night of the Eye occurs on the 21st of Aelmont.
How 'bout this? The Moons are in different positions than the used to be, because of the fact Krynn now lies in a different section of space, so it's going to take the gods a little while to get their moons back into order.
There is actually a logical explanation for arguing against the Night of the Eye being held on the same day every year, out of ritual habit and not because the actual NotE happens on that night every year, because theoretically, even if Lunitari's cycle is 28 days, it's not 28 days exactly, so over time, it would move a day further or behind, as there are no leap years, or leap minutes, or any other "calender" fixing devices that I am aware of... but I'm feeling sick today, I'm tired, and I'm goin' back to bed.
Christopher
Originally posted by Stormprince
...
*takes a deep breath, lets it out slowly*
Nah...
Outta sheer curiosity, where you ever in the Navy.
And you are a professional writer...
J/k
I must say that I agree, the moons are where the DM says they are.
Originally posted by Stormprince
as there's a reason no one has every sat down and produced a day-by-day calender for the moons of Krynn (because in the end, that's really, really, really being a bit too detail oriented, even for someone like me, who's typically a stickler for details).
Uh.... I guess I'm too detail orentated.
I actually had a few questions about the placement of the moons in the KoD and weather or not the chart in the DLCS or the DM's screen was used, but now that I know that it was random the question doesn't seem that important.Originally posted by Daedavias
And you are a professional writer...
J/k
This, my friend, is why God invented the editor. ;)
Although I'm sure some writers would argue that editors come straight from the Abyss!
I must say that I agree, the moons are where the DM says they are.
The moons of Krynn are like Raistlin casting spells in the novels. They didn't keep track of how many 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. level spells Raistlin cast. Instead, he casted when the authors needed him to, and was tired when the authors needed him to be tired.
Back in the day when I played DL the most, my DM would keep track of the moons from day to day. If we still had notes the next game from last time, we'd go from there. If not, then we'd start over.
Brimstone has a passion for both astronomy and detail, which I respect highly. Certainly, I've learned much from his discussions revolving (pun intended) around the moons, their phases, and rotations.
BTW, Daedavias, like your sig. ;)
Originally posted by Stormprince
...
*takes a deep breath, lets it out slowly*
Nah...
No...go ahead, Christopher. I've only been one of the most vocal supporters of the Key of Destiny in a sea redicule in this on-line community. Go ahead and berrate me for pointing out a mistake that seemed to me shouldn't happen. (Otherwise...what was the point of changing the Krynnish calendar in the...again...in the DLCS?)
Originally posted by Stormprince
Outta sheer curiosity, where you ever in the Navy, Brimstone? We used to have a comment about people "Nuking" things out...
Nope, but I think I can figure that one out on my own.
Originally posted by Stormprince
(because in the end, that's really, really, really being a bit too detail oriented, even for someone like me, who's typically a stickler for details). In the end, it doesn't really matter, does it? *laughs* If the DM says he wants a Night of the Eye to occur on the 21st of Aelmont, then the Night of the Eye occurs on the 21st of Aelmont.
A DM, yes. But in an official product with such a simple moon cycle, and a simple calendar changed to simplify moon/date tracking, I think it is important that it be right when it's so simple.
Originally posted by Stormprince
How 'bout this? The Moons are in different positions than the used to be, because of the fact Krynn now lies in a different section of space, so it's going to take the gods a little while to get their moons back into order.
That seems like a cop out to me.
Originally posted by Stormprince
There is actually a logical explanation for arguing against the Night of the Eye being held on the same day every year, out of ritual habit and not because the actual NotE happens on that night every year, because theoretically, even if Lunitari's cycle is 28 days, it's not 28 days exactly
Well, unfortunately the DLCS says a NotE happens exactly every 504 days. If it had said, "approximately" I could buy this...but it doesn't.
But...I did have a thought. It says that the KoD happens 6 months after the War of Souls. And according to DoaVM, a NotE happens on the last day of the war. And, as I mentioned earlier
I guess, in other words, this combo can only happen exactly 6 months after a Night of the Eye.
If the last day of the War of Souls is Seventhmonth Twelfthday (which I don't see why it can't be) then having this combo on Firstmonth Twelfthday. It's conceivable that the Festival of the Eye (possibly no longer even practiced during the first part of the Age of Mortals) no longer falls on one of the two possible days for the Night of the Eye. And the people of Ansalon will just have to learn to live with that.
Originally posted by Stormprince
as there's a reason no one has every sat down and produced a day-by-day calender for the moons of Krynn
I did.
And on paper (ie, mathmatically) it's quite simple with the new Krynnish dating system developed in the DLCS. (it's just making a pretty looking calendar in Excel that's such a pain in the rump).
One of my players just passed the Test of High Sorcery, so *now* I have to pay attention, but I'm just going to roll the dice, I think. I've got no head for playing with calendars and schedules - I can't even keep a date planner for myself in real life let alone one for the game I run every 2 weeks.
I think Brimstone has a good point re: detail, but I would really not read into it more than what it was, which was writer's license. Correct the moon positions for your own campaign with your own calculations and ignore the stuff that's printed at the start of each chapter (since if you're paying that much attention to moon cycles, it won't be that hard for you to keep track of it yourself).
Cheers,
Cam
We usually just roll three color-coordinated d6 at the start of each session or when someone remembers. 6 is a full moon. Most nights seem to be "pink". If someone's playing a wizard and they want to deal with the power flux of the moons, they get to keep track. :D
Originally posted by Daedavias
And you are a professional writer...
J/k
I must say that I agree, the moons are where the DM says they are.
Well, that's what it says on my resume; but I'm also human, so inclined to making errors every once in a great while as well ;)
*laughs* I have two modes: Writer Mode & Editor Mode. If I edit while I write, I never get any writing done; if I write while I edit, I never get any editing done. It's a sticky, tangled conundrum. Plus, I don't have my handy-dandy spell-checker or grammar-checker to catch my mistakes for me... ;)
Christopher
Originally posted by Thrackerzog
Uh.... I guess I'm too detail orentated.
I meant as in a literal calender. Like the farmer's almanac... one of those things that has a page per day, indicating moon phases, tides, weather, etc...
Although now that I think about it, such a reference would be rather keen, but oy vay, the amount of calculation & research that would go in to that one!
Christopher
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
This, my friend, is why God invented the editor. ;)
Although I'm sure some writers would argue that editors come straight from the Abyss!
Nah, editors are great
A good editor can make a decent writer sound incredible. A bad editor can make even a good writer sound horrible. A good editor + a good writer = pure magic
Christopher
Originally posted by Brimstone
No...go ahead, Christopher. I've only been one of the most vocal supporters of the Key of Destiny in a sea redicule in this on-line community. Go ahead and berrate me for pointing out a mistake that seemed to me shouldn't happen. (Otherwise...what was the point of changing the Krynnish calendar in the...again...in the DLCS?)Nope, but I think I can figure that one out on my own.A DM, yes. But in an official product with such a simple moon cycle, and a simple calendar changed to simplify moon/date tracking, I think it is important that it be right when it's so simple.That seems like a cop out to me.Well, unfortunately the DLCS says a NotE happens exactly every 504 days. If it had said, "approximately" I could buy this...but it doesn't.
But...I did have a thought. It says that the KoD happens 6 months after the War of Souls. And according to DoaVM, a NotE happens on the last day of the war. And, as I mentioned earlierIf the last day of the War of Souls is Seventhmonth Twelfthday (which I don't see why it can't be) then having this combo on Firstmonth Twelfthday. It's conceivable that the Festival of the Eye (possibly no longer even practiced during the first part of the Age of Mortals) no longer falls on one of the two possible days for the Night of the Eye. And the people of Ansalon will just have to learn to live with that.I did.
And on paper (ie, mathmatically) it's quite simple with the new Krynnish dating system developed in the DLCS. (it's just making a pretty looking calendar in Excel that's such a pain in the rump).
First, to clarify something, in the Navy, when someone's "Nuking" something, it actually means that they're over-intellectualizing something. It comes from the fact that to become a Nuclear Engineer, you have to score pretty high on your ASVAB. I went in to the Navy as a Nuke myself, but rapidly changed my mind because it was 2 years of schooling and I had the option of getting stationed in Italy instead of aboard a submarine... do the math ;)
When I first set the date for the adventure, I tried to be as close to accurate as I could get. I went with the assumption that the moment the three gods of magic returned, all three of their moons appeared at High Sanction, as full moons, in their full glory (to heck with whether it was the correct date or not). I mean if Nuitari can agree to let someone make his moon two-dimensional, I think that a little display of power such as making all three moons appear in their full glory on the night the gods return to Krynn seems in line with a deity's mindset. So, I arbitrarially chose a date that I figured was close to the day the gods actually returned, and calculated from there. Then, since we did have the nifty random dice rolling mechanic in the book, I rolled the dice. They happened to come out fairly closely, at least according to my calculations, but since I gave up Math for Lent a few years back, my calculation might have been a little bit off.
Astrology is a passion of mine, along with astronomy, however, I'll be the first to admit that for the sake of many things, my writing is stronger than my skills in science and mathematics, hence why I'm a writer & not a scientist
Now... if you could've pointed this out a wee bit earlier, we could've gone back in and recalculated everything. I'll see about being a bit more accurate in Spectre, but since most of my original notes didn't make the move to England with me, I am going to have to start from scratch.
Christopher
PS: I'm sorry if my tone came across defensive or confrontational in my first response. As you will note, I did say I wasn't feeling well & was tired, a bad combination to be in when you're trolling message boards!
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Originally posted by Stormprince
How 'bout this? The Moons are in different positions than the used to be, because of the fact Krynn now lies in a different section of space, so it's going to take the gods a little while to get their moons back into order.
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That seems like a cop out to me. (end Quote)
I actually like this explanation as it mixes very well with my reasoning to my players about why Krynn is no longer connected to the multiverse.
And if it is a cop out than Chris is only sticking with the traditions put in place by TSR and WotC.
Anyway just my two pennies.
Originally posted by kendernbabe
And if it is a cop out than Chris is only sticking with the traditions put in place by TSR and WotC.
I didn't mean it was a cop out for Chris...I meant in general this kind of explination in a fantasy world where things have been clearly defined always feels like a cop out to me.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Correct the moon positions for your own campaign with your own calculations and ignore the stuff that's printed at the start of each chapter (since if you're paying that much attention to moon cycles, it won't be that hard for you to keep track of it yourself).
I would (if I get a chance to play it...which I might now...yee hee!) Anyway...but I was concerned that perhaps the Night of the Eye will play an important role in a year. And if that's the case, maybe I shouldn't change it.
But, I just wanted to know if SP was officially changing the date of the Night of the Eye to January 12th and July 12th (instead of April 15th and October 15th).
See, when I created my calendar...since we didn't have a date for the last day of the War of Souls, for simplification reasons (and a little bit of self-indulging logic that it was a good date for Takhisis' ascention or whatever...especially with the connection of the "eye" that should have still been in the sky at the time if Palin and Mirror hadn't destroyed the skull totem) I made the date the gods returned to coincide with the Festival of the Eye in 421 AC. But that assumption could very well be wrong. But if I was going to make the calendar I needed a starting point...because unlike pre-Chaos War calendar...we didn't have a set intial condition.
Originally posted by Stormprince
I meant as in a literal calender.
That's what I made. No weather, mind you. But the calendar does show the following:
Dates
High Sanction, Waxing, Waning, and Low Sanction for all three moons.
New Moon, First Quarter, Full Moon, and Last Quarter for all three moons.
Eventually I want to put all the holidays in there as well, but they're not there yet. The thing looks like a calendar you would go buy at a store.
But now it's verasity has come into question...because this is an official product, so that means I might have to off set everything by -87 days. So...that sucks.
I did notice though that our Solinari's disagree by one day (mine is one day ahead of yours). I'm not sure why that is. I hope I didn't accidently off set my Solinari phases by a day...damn that would blow, too, but I may have. That will be a pain to fix.
Originally posted by Stormprince
First, to clarify something, in the Navy, when someone's "Nuking" something, it actually means that they're over-intellectualizing something.
Well...I thought you meant "blowing it out of proportion" which I suppose can sometimes mean the same thing. heh heh
Originally posted by Stormprince
I went with the assumption that the moment the three gods of magic returned, all three of their moons appeared at High Sanction, as full moons, in their full glory
That's a good assumption, I think. (I double checked it last night...it specifically says it is a Night of the Eye when they return) I made the same assumption.
Originally posted by Stormprince
So, I arbitrarially chose a date that I figured was close to the day the gods actually returned, and calculated from there.
This is where we digressed, it seems. We chose different dates. You probably chose a more accurate date (especially since you had Margaret to go ask ;))...I chose one that would allow simplified world continuity (matching it up with the Festival of the Eye...it made sense to me having Takhisis make that day her day of ascention, especially with the symbolism of her "one eye" before the ceremony...but I think I've already mentioned that.
Originally posted by Stormprince
Now... if you could've pointed this out a wee bit earlier, we could've gone back in and recalculated everything.
Well...to be honest...I was trying to be patient and wait for the actual release of the module...but my curiosity finally got the better of me yesterday, and I started reading it in ernest...well, at least for 3 pages.
Originally posted by Stormprince
PS: I'm sorry if my tone came across defensive or confrontational in my first response.
That's alright. I just didn't understand why you had to restrain yourself from blowing up at me. I didn't think my post was confrontational (but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about that), I just had a question, and I wanted to explain how I came to my conclusion and my assumptions before I asked the question.
Originally posted by Stormprince
Well, that's what it says on my resume; but I'm also human, so inclined to making errors every once in a great while as well ;)
*laughs* I have two modes: Writer Mode & Editor Mode. If I edit while I write, I never get any writing done; if I write while I edit, I never get any editing done. It's a sticky, tangled conundrum. Plus, I don't have my handy-dandy spell-checker or grammar-checker to catch my mistakes for me... ;)
Christopher
I was just messin' with ya, Chris. Sometimes I type stuff that not even I can understand, but there it sits. Grammar-spell check is a life saver for me, otherwise I would get screwed in my classes.