Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 13:14:31	Greetings, My "DragonLance Adventures" (old book) tells me orcs don't exist in the world of Krynn. Though in the novel "Kendermore", the assassin Denzil is a half-orc... I am just wondering if the world has been updated/changed or if the novel was just incoherent, I don't want to buy an other book when "DragonLance Adventures" seems good enough for me. P.S.: I hate kenders...
#2 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 13:32:40	As a general rule, orcs do not exist in Krynn, though should you want them in your campaign, that's up to you. Soveriegn Press has released updated gaming products for 3e/3.5 amd the dragonlance campaign sourcebook, is the updated version of dragonlance adventures. as far as the half orc in "kendermore" it is my understanding that reprints have changed it to a half ogre or something, but it is generally accepted that any mention of an orc in DL should be considered a kendertale.
#3 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 14:13:15	Nope...according to the official lore there are no orcs on Krynn...this would include any relation of orcs, such as the half orc. And as far as kender go...... .....They hate you too....and they have your stuff. (j/k)
#4 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 15:06:19	Thanks for the replies! <3
#5 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 17:58:54	I could have sworn he was called a half-ogre. I mean there was another ogre in the Ruins'.
#6 talinthas Apr 29, 2004 17:59:43	rule of thumb- any time you see the word orc in DL, its a typo. they mean Ogre. so in kendermore, he's a half ogre.
#7 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 19:18:19	Yeah I was just looking through my copy and they did call him half-orc. Even though there is an ogre in the book. Right there nice work editing department.
#8 baron_the_curse Apr 30, 2004 19:54:07	Originally posted by talinthas rule of thumb- any time you see the word orc in DL, its a typo. they mean Ogre. so in kendermore, he's a half ogre. A better rule of thumb is that the authors that made the mistake didn't know better. With so many things belonging or not belonging to Krynn is hard to keep track.
#9 brimstone May 03, 2004 10:00:40	Originally posted by Baron the Curse A better rule of thumb is that the authors that made the mistake didn't know better. With so many things belonging or not belonging to Krynn is hard to keep track. Lots of things belong...very few don't belong. I don't see why it's so difficult. Orcs, drow, driders, lycanthropes...officially that's it. Although it's an unspoken thing that psionics and psionic monsters don't exist either.
#10 zombiegleemax May 03, 2004 10:11:56	When you will have Orks at Krynn look for Planescape. then you have the chance for Orks.
#11 brimstone May 03, 2004 10:18:15	Originally posted by Knight of the Lily When you will have Orks at Krynn look for Planescape. According to new D&D rules...all worlds are seperate from one another. All worlds have their own cosmos. And even in AD&D, Dragonlance was always intentioned to be it's own seperate place...not part of a multi-verse. Even though Ravenloft, Planescape, and Spelljammer changed all that. Although it's for each individual to decide for themselves...I personally am with Tracy on this in that Dragonlance is it's own place and is in now way connected to Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or Ravenloft, etc. But that's just me.
#12 zombiegleemax May 03, 2004 22:05:04	My two cents: Yeah, I've always pictured it that way too. DragonLance doesn't need anyone else ;) It's awesome on it's own. And It's complicated, so to speak, enough on it's own. With so much history, mythos and so little of the time covered, that leaves a lot of open ground for authors, DM's, players and readers to explore. We don't need our death knights going to some other lesser world ;) heheh
#13 zombiegleemax May 03, 2004 23:21:20	Yep, no orcs. However, there are scro, neogi, and psionic half-kenders ;) (Runs for cover for fear of reprisal at the mere mention of the cloakmaster cycle)
#14 zombiegleemax May 03, 2004 23:26:04	Scro? Psionic Half Kender? Huh? Neogi? I am sooooo lost.....what is this Cloakmaster Cycle you speak of?
#15 zombiegleemax May 03, 2004 23:40:32	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Scro? Psionic Half Kender? Huh? Neogi? I am sooooo lost.....what is this Cloakmaster Cycle you speak of? It was 1992 (I think) and life was good.............. Anyway, it was a six book series released for the Spelljammer game line. In it, Teldin Moore, a farmer from Krynn became caught up in a quest to track down the legendary Spelljammer. Neogi crash landed on his farm and kidnapped him (don't quote me on the story line - its been twelve years). Anyway, he meets a half-way decent illithid, a psionic using half kender and battles the militaristic scro (advanced orcs waging a millennia long battle with the imperial elven army). Not a bad read if you can get your hands on it, although I seem to remember it getting a bit over the top (even for a fantasy novel) by the last book.
#16 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 0:00:53	Hmmm....I know where I have heard that storyline before.....Its at a small used bookstore in my town....I am so there to pick it up tomorrow...He has it priced at 25 cents....Thanks.....Doesnt sound very canon like you said....but sounds like a good read nonetheless
#17 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 0:11:38	Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst Hmmm....I know where I have heard that storyline before.....Its at a small used bookstore in my town....I am so there to pick it up tomorrow...He has it priced at 25 cents....Thanks.....Doesnt sound very canon like you said....but sounds like a good read nonetheless Well, that all depends on who defines canon. The books themselves have lttle impact on krynn as Teldin has left by the second, if not the first (can't remember) book. The neogi make very good baddies, the sought that have no redeemable qualities. Anyway, enjoy the read.
#18 talinthas May 04, 2004 1:41:52	book 6 is ridiculously difficult to find =(
#19 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 1:43:49	Originally posted by talinthas book 6 is ridiculously difficult to find =( Just so happens its the only one I have left.
#20 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 2:31:03	According to new D&D rules...all worlds are seperate from one another. All worlds have their own cosmos. Can we say that AD&D: Yes and D&D : No, for Portals to other Worlds? In Baldurs Gate 2 the Quest for Mage/ Wizard give it Knights of Sloamnia at Faerun.
#21 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 7:11:37	Yes...in Baldur's Gate a Solamnic showed up....But that's a video game....and most likely something the designers plugged in there as an homage to a setting they liked.
#22 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 7:44:05	Ok it is a Vidiogame. But the rulez and the system are from WotC or not? But i give you a other argument. :D form Brimstone: According to new D&D rules...all worlds are seperate from one another. All worlds have their own cosmos. And even in AD&D, Dragonlance was always intentioned to be it's own seperate place...not part of a multi-verse. Even though Ravenloft, Planescape, and Spelljammer changed all that. Although it's for each individual to decide for themselves...I personally am with Tracy on this in that Dragonlance is it's own place and is in now way connected to Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or Ravenloft, etc. And what is then with the Age of Mortal? The Dragon Overlords come from a other WORLD. And in Dragons of a Vanished Moon the Gods search Krynn in all PLAINS because Takhisi has teleport Krynn to an other place.
#23 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 8:01:29	When they say all planes I am sure that they mean all planes of existence affiliated with the DL world's cosmology
#24 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 8:03:38	Originally posted by Knight of the Lily Ok it is a Vidiogame. But the rulez and the system are from WotC or not? But i give you a other argument. :D The arguement you give isnt an arguement to me....It totally agrees with everything I said? I am on the side of keeping DL as it's on separate universe. How is that an arguement?
#25 cam_banks May 04, 2004 8:05:22	The current assumption for the Dragonlance setting is that Krynn is enclosed in a planar bubble floating in an endless ethereal sea. This bubble is made up of overlapping outer planes, elemental planes, and other planar elements which seal Krynn off from the dangers of this outer or deep ethereal. There are ways out of the bubble, beyond the Abyss and the Dome of Creation, through the Gate of Souls. This is the path in which Krynn's souls pass when they die, assuming that on their way out they aren't claimed by forces in the Abyss, etc. When Takhisis moved Krynn from where it was, she left behind its planar bubble and set it adrift in the ethereal sea, enclosed in a necromantic barrier of sorts which prevented the dead from leaving. It did, however, have the additional side effect of making Krynn more open to travel via portals, which is how the alien dragons arrived (through portals previously travelled by Skie/Khellendros). When the gods found where Takhisis had moved Krynn, they rebuilt the planes around the world, reforming the cosmology once again. The portals remain, but are now much more difficult to traverse (or at least, not as easy). This whole setup makes it possible to introduce other forms of distant, bizarre and alien things to Krynn, but given that the planar bubble is conceptually titanic and self-sustaining (it's not like a Spelljammer crystal sphere which has a distinct "shell" a given distance from the world) and there are countless smaller demiplanes and pocket dimensions within the confines of this bubble, there's almost never a need to reach outside of it. The other side of this model of Krynn's multiverse is that, like the tree-like planar cosmology of the Forgotten Realms, it's considered to be the only way things work for the setting. There's no Great Wheel, no skipping between campaign settings, no spelljammer ships to Greyhawk's Oerth etc. All of those 2nd edition conceits have been abandoned or retconned out of the current continuity to ensure that Dragonlance is about Krynn and its gods and its River of Time, not a setting where Krynn is just one of countless other D&D worlds in a great planar soup. Cheers, Cam
#26 brimstone May 04, 2004 8:18:28	Originally posted by Knight of the Lily The Dragon Overlords come from a other WORLD. And in Dragons of a Vanished Moon the Gods search Krynn in all PLAINS because Takhisi has teleport Krynn to an other place. I didn't say Krynn was the only world...I said it wasn't connected to any other WotC world (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Planescape, etc.).
#27 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 8:36:09	from Serena DarkMyst: The arguement you give isnt an arguement to me....It totally agrees with everything I said? I am on the side of keeping DL as it's on separate universe. How is that an arguement? Dragonlance is a cool world. But where is the problem when it gives gates to other worlds? I dont want that Krynn will go the same way how Faerun. It must not be a emigration of nations from world to world. But some characters can go to other worlds. I think Age of Mortals is the best argument what it gives. Then when Dragons come form a other world can other peoples and races the same. The principal thing is that not give a tourism from world to world. It is a special gift for few chosen characters.
#28 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 8:43:37	Yes...now I see what you are saying...the other world you speak of is another world within the Dragonlance cosmos....or at least it was before the gods severed all the connections to it. THe problem with Krynn having connections to other D&D campaign worlds is the mess that it makes...it takes away from the importance of the campaign. Which is why the campaign as it is set up in the DLCS is disconnected from the other game worlds....with it's own planar cosmology. It is entirely possible to just go with the Great Wheel....But as far as I am concerned I will stay with the DLCS cosmology because for me it makes for a DL centered game, not a game in which DL is one of many many worlds that fade in importance.
#29 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 12:24:51	Since it's a fantasy world, I don't see why Krynn couldn't be linked to other worlds, even if it's hard to reach it (that's why it can't become an immigration nation). A magician from an other plane who enters in Krynn becomes a renagate, a halfling receives the status and the personnality of kenders, etc. The new comers would have to adopt the rules of Krynn to keep the Balance and couldn't mess with Krynn. A too powerful person of an epic level couldn't even enter in Krynn to eventually destroy it. Yes Krynn has his own cosmology, that's why a cleric would have to become a follower of one of the Krynn's gods to cast a spell. Also, it cannot take the importance of the campaign away, since noone would probably hear about the foreigners, except a few persons. Anyway, a DM is totally free to forbid plane travelling into Krynn if he thinks it's not a good thing.
#30 brimstone May 04, 2004 12:34:00	Originally posted by Aegil Anyway, a DM is totally free to forbid plane travelling into Krynn if he thinks it's not a good thing. I think the point is that it should be the other way around. Officially they should not be connected...but a DM is more than free to connect them if he/she so wishes. To officially seperate them greatly simplifies things. That way you don't have to worry about one world effecting the timeline or continuity of the other. Just over all, it simplifies contiunity...which is all Spelljammer, Ravenloft, and Planescape ever did for Dragonlance was screw up the continuity. Note the way I said that...I have no problem with Dragonlance being a part of Spelljammer, Ravenloft, or Planescape...but I do have a problem with Spelljammer, Ravenloft, or Planescape being a part of Dragonlance...does that make sense?
#31 zombiegleemax May 04, 2004 16:18:25	That makes perfect sense Brim....Actually I couldnt have imagined it better put....I also want to add that it is because of the reasoning that you have put forth that the DL setting was disconnected officially from other game settings.