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Flow of Magic in Krynn

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Apr 29, 2004 15:22:47 Possible War of Souls Spoiler.....

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the assumption that the gods of magic control the flow of magic in Krynn. Correct? And when the Chaos War took place and Takhisis stole the world that flow of magic stopped and magic was free to roam throughout the world. Hence the ability to draw upon the magic in the form of sorcery. Now this is my question: If the gods of magic are back, why would sorcery (in it's fifth age form) continue?
#2
ferratus
Apr 29, 2004 15:39:58 Because the 5th Age fans demanded it.

My favourite theory is that the last time wild sorcery was ascendent, it covered the earth, left over as the raw power of Chaos, of whom creation is formed of.

When the sorcerers fought in the second dragon war, the resulting magical cataclysm not only caused massive destruction, but also burned away wild magic from the face of Krynn, save for in small deep pools of magic throughout Ansalon such as Thorbardin (giving us Theiwar Savants) or Anathia (giving us Irda sorcery) or freaky fey forests. Places of magical power essentially, which gave the creatures that resided within them access to sorcery. The gods of magic, through the lunar cycles, drew forth from those deep wells to restore magic to the world.

Now when the Irda broke open the graygem, Chaos returned and his power flooded the earth. That is why 5th Age Sorcery became ascendant, essentially all of Krynn is now a "place of power". The gods of magic still draw upon Krynn for High Sorcery, but it is not the only magic around anymore.
#3
zombiegleemax
Apr 29, 2004 15:52:24
Originally posted by Slapstick_80

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the assumption that the gods of magic control the flow of magic in Krynn. Correct? And when the Chaos War took place and Takhisis stole the world that flow of magic stopped and magic was free to roam throughout the world. Hence the ability to draw upon the magic in the form of sorcery. Now this is my question: If the gods of magic are back, why would sorcery (in it's fifth age form) continue?

Alrighty...here goes. Sorcery and mysticism are different kinds of magic altogether. Wizards and Clerics use focused power...they are granted this power by their respected gods (and moons).

Sorcery and Mysticism are ambient forms of magic, sorcery draws upon the magic infused in the very world when it was created. It is also amplified by the power of chaos. Mysticism draws it's power from the divine spark present within every living thing...It has been known as the power of the heart. So, while Wizards study magic from old musty tomes and prepare the spells they will use for the day ahead of time, drawing on the power given them by the gods of magic, Sorcerers cast their spells spontaneously, drawing on the already present power within the world itself.

Clerics pray for the spells they will use ahead of time and cast them using the power given them by the gods....Mystics use the divine power within themselves to cast spells on the fly....

I hope that all made sense.
#4
cam_banks
Apr 29, 2004 15:54:39 Ambient magic (the kind used by sorcerers) has always been around, ever since the creation of the world. It's the power used by fey creatures, dragons, and other creatures with innate spell magic. It wasn't initially accessible by mortals, but when the Greygem traveled across Krynn it created a kind of harmonic resonance that enabled the first sorcerers to draw upon it and use it. This "wild magic" was dangerous when used in widespread amounts without controlling factors, so when it was turned against the evil dragons it created storms of wild magic which devastated many areas of Krynn. The Gods of Magic then introduced high sorcery or wizard magic, a refined and Chaos-free form of arcane power which any mortal instructed in its use could draw upon to cast spells. In time, the Greygem's influence faded, wizards became dominant over sorcerers, and eventually all sorcery had diminished and been abandoned by mortal spellcasters.

In the Age of Mortals, Chaos' release from the Greygem did the same thing, but on a massive and more permanent scale. While the wild magic seemed limited at first, that was largely due to the draining of magic by Takhisis' enthralled souls and spirits. It's now more or less here to stay, though it's also likely that it won't be allowed to reach the levels of uncontrolled might that it did during the war against the dragons in the Age of Dreams.

Cheers,
Cam
#5
Dragonhelm
Apr 29, 2004 15:55:09 Slapstick - I think you’re looking at magic slightly wrong. There are two types of arcane magic in the world – High Sorcery, which comes from the gods of magic/moons, and Wild Sorcery (aka primal sorcery), which is the arcane energy used in the creation of the world.

Likewise, there are two forms of divine magic – clerical magic, which stems from the gods, and Mysticism (aka the “power of the heart”), which comes from looking within, rather than to the gods.

Wild Sorcery and Mysticism are only accessible during times when the power of Chaos boosts their energies to usable levels. This occurred in the early Age of Dreams, when the Greygem spread across Ansalon, and also in the Age of Mortals, and the power of Chaos permeated the world.

Edit: Did everybody and their mother beat me to the punch on this one, or what? ;)
#6
brimstone
Apr 29, 2004 16:01:54
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Edit: Did everybody and their mother beat me to the punch on this one, or what? ;)

I was going to respond too...then I saw all the people that were on and though, "Nope...someone else will get this answer better than I could."
#7
cam_banks
Apr 29, 2004 16:06:18
Originally posted by Brimstone
I was going to respond too...then I saw all the people that were on and though, "Nope...someone else will get this answer better than I could."

This subject brings out all the academics.

Cheers,
Cam
#8
zombiegleemax
Apr 29, 2004 16:11:58 The way I was thinking was that there was just one flow of magic in the world, similar to the one flow of "faith" to the gods and that the primal aspect of sorcery was completely controled by the gods of magic. And that "Arcane" magic is just the tapped power into the primal sorcery that the gods of magic allow. I understand that the world is infused with this magic, and that there are places where magic is at a higher level (magical forests, beasts, etc.). It just seems to me that if the gods of magic don't want someone running around with all that primal sorcery, they could just suck it out of him for lack of better words. Since they can control it, right? Also, does it mean that just because Chaos unleashed a great and mighty power when the Graygem was broken that the gods of magic can't control that sorcery?

here's a visual aid:

P R I M A L S O R C E R Y Which is all around us in the world.
\ /
\ /
\ / Magic is funneled/controled by gods
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
A R C A N E S O R C E R Y gods act as conduit to the wizards

Sorry if I make no sense.
#9
brimstone
Apr 29, 2004 16:27:47 The Appendix in the hardback version of Dragons of a Vanished Moon has a really good visual.

Basically there are two types of magic. A huge pool of ambient energy (which the gods don't control) and the stream of focused energy from the gods (which they obviously do control).

The gods take the ambient energy and focus it into managable "safe" energy for the mortals to use. Normally, mortals can't tap into this ambient energy anyway...so it doesn't matter. But thanks to the Greygem and Chaos...mortals now can tap into that pool (for one reason or another) and there's nothing the gods can do about it.

It stands to reason that they can shut off the flow of focused energy if they want...but I think they rarely, if ever, do.
#10
zombiegleemax
Apr 29, 2004 16:33:26 So the gods of magic are really the gods of A magic which wizards tap into? and that mortals taking it into their own hands, the sorcerors, are like their own god? sorta....kinda....not really?
#11
jericho
Apr 29, 2004 19:23:40 Exactly....sorta...kinda...not really.

The history of ambient and focused arcane magic gives you a development of the conflict between sorcerors and wizards beyond the basics in the PHB. How will the orders of High Sorcery deal with sorcerors? Are they potential allies? Enemies? Is it at all possible for the two groups to learn something from each other?

One plot that I'm planning to explore is based on the fifth age idea that sorcery (ambient magic) cannot create permanent effects. I can't remember where this was put forward, either in the SAGA products or in one of the fifth age novels. My take on it is that it is possible to create permanent items (in game terms gain and use the Craft Wondrous Item, Wand, Staff etc) but that it's something that elven/human/whatever sorcerors have yet to discover......but from where? The scions perhaps.....

Nick
#12
zombiegleemax
Apr 30, 2004 10:38:26
One plot that I'm planning to explore is based on the fifth age idea that sorcery (ambient magic) cannot create permanent effects. I can't remember where this was put forward, either in the SAGA products or in one of the fifth age novels. My take on it is that it is possible to create permanent items (in game terms gain and use the Craft Wondrous Item, Wand, Staff etc) but that it's something that elven/human/whatever sorcerors have yet to discover......but from where? The scions perhaps.....

In the original Fifth Age boxed set it was stated that sorcerers could not create permanent magical effects, but by the time of Heroes of Sorcery they had discoverd how to.
#13
zombiegleemax
May 03, 2004 16:00:14 According to Dalamar the Dark, "wild magic" was known to the Kagonesti and others in the Fourth Age.
#14
brimstone
May 03, 2004 16:06:21
Originally posted by cnposner
According to Dalamar the Dark, "wild magic" was known to the Kagonesti and others in the Fourth Age.

NVB...gotta love her. Her stories are great! I love her writing...but, well, her books have a tendancy to play a little fast and loose with the Dragonlance established canon. You can't always take them at face value...so to speak.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 15:22:47	Possible War of Souls Spoiler..... Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the assumption that the gods of magic control the flow of magic in Krynn. Correct? And when the Chaos War took place and Takhisis stole the world that flow of magic stopped and magic was free to roam throughout the world. Hence the ability to draw upon the magic in the form of sorcery. Now this is my question: If the gods of magic are back, why would sorcery (in it's fifth age form) continue?
#2 ferratus Apr 29, 2004 15:39:58	Because the 5th Age fans demanded it. My favourite theory is that the last time wild sorcery was ascendent, it covered the earth, left over as the raw power of Chaos, of whom creation is formed of. When the sorcerers fought in the second dragon war, the resulting magical cataclysm not only caused massive destruction, but also burned away wild magic from the face of Krynn, save for in small deep pools of magic throughout Ansalon such as Thorbardin (giving us Theiwar Savants) or Anathia (giving us Irda sorcery) or freaky fey forests. Places of magical power essentially, which gave the creatures that resided within them access to sorcery. The gods of magic, through the lunar cycles, drew forth from those deep wells to restore magic to the world. Now when the Irda broke open the graygem, Chaos returned and his power flooded the earth. That is why 5th Age Sorcery became ascendant, essentially all of Krynn is now a "place of power". The gods of magic still draw upon Krynn for High Sorcery, but it is not the only magic around anymore.
#3 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 15:52:24	Originally posted by Slapstick_80 Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the assumption that the gods of magic control the flow of magic in Krynn. Correct? And when the Chaos War took place and Takhisis stole the world that flow of magic stopped and magic was free to roam throughout the world. Hence the ability to draw upon the magic in the form of sorcery. Now this is my question: If the gods of magic are back, why would sorcery (in it's fifth age form) continue? Alrighty...here goes. Sorcery and mysticism are different kinds of magic altogether. Wizards and Clerics use focused power...they are granted this power by their respected gods (and moons). Sorcery and Mysticism are ambient forms of magic, sorcery draws upon the magic infused in the very world when it was created. It is also amplified by the power of chaos. Mysticism draws it's power from the divine spark present within every living thing...It has been known as the power of the heart. So, while Wizards study magic from old musty tomes and prepare the spells they will use for the day ahead of time, drawing on the power given them by the gods of magic, Sorcerers cast their spells spontaneously, drawing on the already present power within the world itself. Clerics pray for the spells they will use ahead of time and cast them using the power given them by the gods....Mystics use the divine power within themselves to cast spells on the fly.... I hope that all made sense.
#4 cam_banks Apr 29, 2004 15:54:39	Ambient magic (the kind used by sorcerers) has always been around, ever since the creation of the world. It's the power used by fey creatures, dragons, and other creatures with innate spell magic. It wasn't initially accessible by mortals, but when the Greygem traveled across Krynn it created a kind of harmonic resonance that enabled the first sorcerers to draw upon it and use it. This "wild magic" was dangerous when used in widespread amounts without controlling factors, so when it was turned against the evil dragons it created storms of wild magic which devastated many areas of Krynn. The Gods of Magic then introduced high sorcery or wizard magic, a refined and Chaos-free form of arcane power which any mortal instructed in its use could draw upon to cast spells. In time, the Greygem's influence faded, wizards became dominant over sorcerers, and eventually all sorcery had diminished and been abandoned by mortal spellcasters. In the Age of Mortals, Chaos' release from the Greygem did the same thing, but on a massive and more permanent scale. While the wild magic seemed limited at first, that was largely due to the draining of magic by Takhisis' enthralled souls and spirits. It's now more or less here to stay, though it's also likely that it won't be allowed to reach the levels of uncontrolled might that it did during the war against the dragons in the Age of Dreams. Cheers, Cam
#5 Dragonhelm Apr 29, 2004 15:55:09	Slapstick - I think you’re looking at magic slightly wrong. There are two types of arcane magic in the world – High Sorcery, which comes from the gods of magic/moons, and Wild Sorcery (aka primal sorcery), which is the arcane energy used in the creation of the world. Likewise, there are two forms of divine magic – clerical magic, which stems from the gods, and Mysticism (aka the “power of the heart”), which comes from looking within, rather than to the gods. Wild Sorcery and Mysticism are only accessible during times when the power of Chaos boosts their energies to usable levels. This occurred in the early Age of Dreams, when the Greygem spread across Ansalon, and also in the Age of Mortals, and the power of Chaos permeated the world. Edit: Did everybody and their mother beat me to the punch on this one, or what? ;)
#6 brimstone Apr 29, 2004 16:01:54	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Edit: Did everybody and their mother beat me to the punch on this one, or what? ;) I was going to respond too...then I saw all the people that were on and though, "Nope...someone else will get this answer better than I could."
#7 cam_banks Apr 29, 2004 16:06:18	Originally posted by Brimstone I was going to respond too...then I saw all the people that were on and though, "Nope...someone else will get this answer better than I could." This subject brings out all the academics. Cheers, Cam
#8 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 16:11:58	The way I was thinking was that there was just one flow of magic in the world, similar to the one flow of "faith" to the gods and that the primal aspect of sorcery was completely controled by the gods of magic. And that "Arcane" magic is just the tapped power into the primal sorcery that the gods of magic allow. I understand that the world is infused with this magic, and that there are places where magic is at a higher level (magical forests, beasts, etc.). It just seems to me that if the gods of magic don't want someone running around with all that primal sorcery, they could just suck it out of him for lack of better words. Since they can control it, right? Also, does it mean that just because Chaos unleashed a great and mighty power when the Graygem was broken that the gods of magic can't control that sorcery? here's a visual aid: P R I M A L S O R C E R Y Which is all around us in the world. \ / \ / \ / Magic is funneled/controled by gods \ / \ / \ / \ / A R C A N E S O R C E R Y gods act as conduit to the wizards Sorry if I make no sense.
#9 brimstone Apr 29, 2004 16:27:47	The Appendix in the hardback version of Dragons of a Vanished Moon has a really good visual. Basically there are two types of magic. A huge pool of ambient energy (which the gods don't control) and the stream of focused energy from the gods (which they obviously do control). The gods take the ambient energy and focus it into managable "safe" energy for the mortals to use. Normally, mortals can't tap into this ambient energy anyway...so it doesn't matter. But thanks to the Greygem and Chaos...mortals now can tap into that pool (for one reason or another) and there's nothing the gods can do about it. It stands to reason that they can shut off the flow of focused energy if they want...but I think they rarely, if ever, do.
#10 zombiegleemax Apr 29, 2004 16:33:26	So the gods of magic are really the gods of A magic which wizards tap into? and that mortals taking it into their own hands, the sorcerors, are like their own god? sorta....kinda....not really?
#11 jericho Apr 29, 2004 19:23:40	Exactly....sorta...kinda...not really. The history of ambient and focused arcane magic gives you a development of the conflict between sorcerors and wizards beyond the basics in the PHB. How will the orders of High Sorcery deal with sorcerors? Are they potential allies? Enemies? Is it at all possible for the two groups to learn something from each other? One plot that I'm planning to explore is based on the fifth age idea that sorcery (ambient magic) cannot create permanent effects. I can't remember where this was put forward, either in the SAGA products or in one of the fifth age novels. My take on it is that it is possible to create permanent items (in game terms gain and use the Craft Wondrous Item, Wand, Staff etc) but that it's something that elven/human/whatever sorcerors have yet to discover......but from where? The scions perhaps..... Nick
#12 zombiegleemax Apr 30, 2004 10:38:26	One plot that I'm planning to explore is based on the fifth age idea that sorcery (ambient magic) cannot create permanent effects. I can't remember where this was put forward, either in the SAGA products or in one of the fifth age novels. My take on it is that it is possible to create permanent items (in game terms gain and use the Craft Wondrous Item, Wand, Staff etc) but that it's something that elven/human/whatever sorcerors have yet to discover......but from where? The scions perhaps..... In the original Fifth Age boxed set it was stated that sorcerers could not create permanent magical effects, but by the time of Heroes of Sorcery they had discoverd how to.
#13 zombiegleemax May 03, 2004 16:00:14	According to Dalamar the Dark, "wild magic" was known to the Kagonesti and others in the Fourth Age.
#14 brimstone May 03, 2004 16:06:21	Originally posted by cnposner *According to Dalamar the Dark, "wild magic" was known to the Kagonesti and others in the Fourth Age.* NVB...gotta love her. Her stories are great! I love her writing...but, well, her books have a tendancy to play a little fast and loose with the Dragonlance established canon. You can't always take them at face value...so to speak.