Honor Empire (A new look at Ierendi) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Honor Empire (A new look at Ierendi)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Cthulhudrew
Apr 29, 2004 16:19:11 Here's a thought that I've had for some time now, and haven't yet worked into a more formal writeup, but I wanted to run by you all just the same.

A lot of people don't like the Ierendi Gazetteer for several reasons, notably it's "comical" parody elements and "touristy" style writeups. I agree with these sentiments to a large degree myself, though I still think there are a lot of good elements to the Gaz.

I got to thinking about how to revitalize the area not so long ago, and came up with this thought: What if all the trappings of Ierendi were part of a calculated plan by some agency to keep attention away from itself? More specifically, what if it were the Honor Islanders who were behind it all?

To illustrate what I mean, let's look a bit more into the Honor Islanders history:

They are refugees from an Alphatian subject nation to the southeast of the Isle of Dawn (Ochalea? Bellisaria?). Refugees? Who are they fleeing, and why?

We know they are fire wizards (though probably not Flaemish, else why not just go to Glantri?). Given that Fire Magic is not well liked by the Alphatians, that in itself is good enough reason for them to flee Alphatian rule. Add to that that they may have been native to the island before Alphatia settled/conquered it (ie, native Ochaleans or Bellisarians, probably of Yanifey stock) you have good reason for them to become refugees and hide.

Why do they go to the Ierendi isles? Well, at the time (c. 600 AC) Mad Creeg was in the successful stages of rebellion, making it a virgin territory ripe for conquest. It's unlikely that his rebellion would have been successful if not for the Honor Island refugees' help, so they had a chance to ingratiate themselves to the Ierendi Islanders early on, and negotiate for some prime territory (Honor Island, which also has a portal to the plane of Fire that suits them perfectly). So right off the bat, they've jockeyed themselves into a great position.

We are led to believe this was the extent of their involvement in Ierendi politics, but what if it wasn't? What better way for them to set themselves up in safety and comfort but as the puppeteers behind Ierendi? And what use would the Honor Islanders have for turning Ierendi into a tourist mecca?

Think about it. The current system of Ierendi rulership has "figurehead" kings and queens. This would suit the Honor Islanders fine, as it prevents any sort of dynastic and goal-oriented monarchy from instilling itself into Ierendi politics. No real direction, as there is no ability to make long term and wide reaching decisions. I could see the Honor Islanders using all their influence (behind the scenes, of course) to make this a reality.

Add to that the "real power" of Ierendi, the Council. A council of squabbling, self-interested, rotating- possibly easily manipulated- merchant families and businesses. Again, it works against any sort of long-term decisions, and the Honor Islanders have many possible opportunities for subversive influence over the council to implement their own policies.

Then the tourist side of things- well, it certainly does distract from Honor Island itself. Provide immigrants and newcomers to the islands with all kinds of "exciting" and "different" opportunities, and which are they going to choose to investigate? The flashiest and most interesting, or the big lump of rock with the active volcano? All but the most persistent will choose the former, I'd imagine. And if the HI are seen as keeping a low profile and not being active in politics or outside affairs (despite being active behind the scenes in Ierendi politics) then there is even less incentive to look into them and their origins- they come across as boring.

Anyway, I'd like to do a more formal "True history of Ierendi" one of these days, but if anyone else wants to help out, I might get more done with a collaboration.

Thoughts?
#2
zombiegleemax
May 01, 2004 14:13:45 Interesting theory!

You'd might wish to consider the following:

1. Regarding what you said about the Council - Well, the Council was established by Black Toes at 642 AC. That's around the time the Honor wizards arrived to Ierendi. Now, Black Toes' wife - Kerhy Matrongle - is Glantrian. Maybe she's Flaemish? Maybe she has connections with those Fire Wizards of Alphatia? The fact that Black Toes assumed her surname might imply that Kerhy has considerable power over her husband - and is the true ruler of Ierendi. Maybe all this Council idea is indeed hers, in order to promote the Honor wizards' interests.

2. GAZ4 says the Alphatian refugees are from south-east of the Isle of Dawn. I think that's the Alatians. According to DotE, those islands were populated by non-wizards who wished to live far away from Alphatia. A good place for a Fire-ish underground. The people of the Alatians were indeed "moved" by the Alphatian Emperor. So that can explain the refugees.
One problem: all of this happened around 730 AC, and GAZ4 states that the Honor wizards have already arrived at the 7th century AC.
#3
Cthulhudrew
May 05, 2004 21:31:57 Lost Woodrake suggested:

1. Regarding what you said about the Council - Well, the Council was established by Black Toes at 642 AC. That's around the time the Honor wizards arrived to Ierendi. Now, Black Toes' wife - Kerhy Matrongle - is Glantrian. Maybe she's Flaemish? Maybe she has connections with those Fire Wizards of Alphatia? The fact that Black Toes assumed her surname might imply that Kerhy has considerable power over her husband - and is the true ruler of Ierendi. Maybe all this Council idea is indeed hers, in order to promote the Honor wizards' interests.

You've got me to thinking about the Glantri connection (Kerhy Matrongle). Here are my initial ideas:

When Kerhy Matrongle, a flaemish wizard from Braejr, married Black Toes and began helping him set up his government, the wizards on Honor Island got worried. They had just left Alphatian territories in order to study in private and avoid "imperial entanglements" and now more Alphatians (the flaems) were getting involved in their neck of the woods. Could be a coincidence, but why take that risk? (Especially when it was the flaems and their unchecked, careless study of fire magic- not like the HI more reserved and cautious means- that blew up the original Alphatian homeworld?)

So the HIs decided it was necessary to get more involved in the establishment of Ierendi than simply helping turn aside the Thyatian invasion like they did to secure their island home in the first place. Hence, they helped/suggested the establishment of the Tribunal system (rather than a monarchy), and, later- to dilute the power of the Tribunal some more (as a failsafe) they "helped" to get the Council of merchants (can't think of the name for it in Gaz4 offhand) established as a legitimate power structure (as opposed to simple lobbyists). They also got involved in the tourist industry, when it seemed inevitable that political interests were looking to establish something along those lines, in order to see that it was set up in a way that would help them maintain their isolation.

2. GAZ4 says the Alphatian refugees are from south-east of the Isle of Dawn. I think that's the Alatians. According to DotE, those islands were populated by non-wizards who wished to live far away from Alphatia. A good place for a Fire-ish underground. The people of the Alatians were indeed "moved" by the Alphatian Emperor. So that can explain the refugees.

That's right. The Alatians are probably most likely. As you say, it kind of fits with a lot of things about them, anyway- 1) the Alatians have a high Thothian population to them (the westernmost, anyway- note the Thothian names of some of the settlements there), and the Thothians are known to have fire-worshippers among them (due to Rathanos' influence). 2) During Alphatia's "beautification" craze (c. 500 AC, IIRC), the Alatians are "resettled" and converted into tourist traps- which would probably move the settlers there (either forcefully or willingly, most likely some combination of the two). Which would fit with the time frame of when the Honor Islanders arrive.

Which means the Honor Islanders are probably either a Yanifey/Thothian mix (the two "original" cultures of the Alatians), with a decidedly Thothian bent (their fire worship), a Cypri/Thothian mix (dating back to Alphatian settlement of the Alatians following the Nithia debacle c.500 BC, when the Thothians would have been too weak to stand against Akphatian invasion), all Thothian, all Yanifey, or all Cypri.

I think I like the Thothian/Cypri explanation, as the merging of the two thus gives you ties to fire magic on both sides- seeing the thothians and their divine fire-magicks brought those cypri/alphatians who were still interested in fire magick (just not the extreme version of Alphaks' flaemish followers) and the two cultures developed an amalgam- divine and arcane fire magic.

This, naturally, would have worried the rulers of Alphatia, and when Mylertendal's "beautification" movement began, and the idea of creating an artists paradise sprang up, certain political interests immediately "sponsored" the Alatian isles as a likely location. There was a tremendous amount of support for such a project by the Grand Council- unprecedented support, in fact.

(Thus, they could get rid of the potential threat of the Alatians under the guise of civic improvement).
#4
Cthulhudrew
May 05, 2004 21:34:12 I forgot to reply to Lost Woodrake's post re: this matter:

One problem: all of this happened around 730 AC, and GAZ4 states that the Honor wizards have already arrived at the 7th century AC.

D'OH! For some reason, this sounds about right to me, but I can't for the life of me think where it comes from. I seem to recall Mylertendal and Alatians being resettled c. 500 AC. Do you remember where you got this information? I'd like to see if I can figure a workaround somehow...
#5
zombiegleemax
May 06, 2004 2:31:40 I took it from DotE - the entry about the Alatians.
(i like all your work on the matter - but i'll have to read it more thoroughly in order to comment. later.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cthulhudrew Apr 29, 2004 16:19:11	Here's a thought that I've had for some time now, and haven't yet worked into a more formal writeup, but I wanted to run by you all just the same. A lot of people don't like the Ierendi Gazetteer for several reasons, notably it's "comical" parody elements and "touristy" style writeups. I agree with these sentiments to a large degree myself, though I still think there are a lot of good elements to the Gaz. I got to thinking about how to revitalize the area not so long ago, and came up with this thought: What if all the trappings of Ierendi were part of a calculated plan by some agency to keep attention away from itself? More specifically, what if it were the Honor Islanders who were behind it all? To illustrate what I mean, let's look a bit more into the Honor Islanders history: They are refugees from an Alphatian subject nation to the southeast of the Isle of Dawn (Ochalea? Bellisaria?). Refugees? Who are they fleeing, and why? We know they are fire wizards (though probably not Flaemish, else why not just go to Glantri?). Given that Fire Magic is not well liked by the Alphatians, that in itself is good enough reason for them to flee Alphatian rule. Add to that that they may have been native to the island before Alphatia settled/conquered it (ie, native Ochaleans or Bellisarians, probably of Yanifey stock) you have good reason for them to become refugees and hide. Why do they go to the Ierendi isles? Well, at the time (c. 600 AC) Mad Creeg was in the successful stages of rebellion, making it a virgin territory ripe for conquest. It's unlikely that his rebellion would have been successful if not for the Honor Island refugees' help, so they had a chance to ingratiate themselves to the Ierendi Islanders early on, and negotiate for some prime territory (Honor Island, which also has a portal to the plane of Fire that suits them perfectly). So right off the bat, they've jockeyed themselves into a great position. We are led to believe this was the extent of their involvement in Ierendi politics, but what if it wasn't? What better way for them to set themselves up in safety and comfort but as the puppeteers behind Ierendi? And what use would the Honor Islanders have for turning Ierendi into a tourist mecca? Think about it. The current system of Ierendi rulership has "figurehead" kings and queens. This would suit the Honor Islanders fine, as it prevents any sort of dynastic and goal-oriented monarchy from instilling itself into Ierendi politics. No real direction, as there is no ability to make long term and wide reaching decisions. I could see the Honor Islanders using all their influence (behind the scenes, of course) to make this a reality. Add to that the "real power" of Ierendi, the Council. A council of squabbling, self-interested, rotating- possibly easily manipulated- merchant families and businesses. Again, it works against any sort of long-term decisions, and the Honor Islanders have many possible opportunities for subversive influence over the council to implement their own policies. Then the tourist side of things- well, it certainly does distract from Honor Island itself. Provide immigrants and newcomers to the islands with all kinds of "exciting" and "different" opportunities, and which are they going to choose to investigate? The flashiest and most interesting, or the big lump of rock with the active volcano? All but the most persistent will choose the former, I'd imagine. And if the HI are seen as keeping a low profile and not being active in politics or outside affairs (despite being active behind the scenes in Ierendi politics) then there is even less incentive to look into them and their origins- they come across as boring. Anyway, I'd like to do a more formal "True history of Ierendi" one of these days, but if anyone else wants to help out, I might get more done with a collaboration. Thoughts?
#2 zombiegleemax May 01, 2004 14:13:45	Interesting theory! You'd might wish to consider the following: 1. Regarding what you said about the Council - Well, the Council was established by Black Toes at 642 AC. That's around the time the Honor wizards arrived to Ierendi. Now, Black Toes' wife - Kerhy Matrongle - is Glantrian. Maybe she's Flaemish? Maybe she has connections with those Fire Wizards of Alphatia? The fact that Black Toes assumed her surname might imply that Kerhy has considerable power over her husband - and is the true ruler of Ierendi. Maybe all this Council idea is indeed hers, in order to promote the Honor wizards' interests. 2. GAZ4 says the Alphatian refugees are from south-east of the Isle of Dawn. I think that's the Alatians. According to DotE, those islands were populated by non-wizards who wished to live far away from Alphatia. A good place for a Fire-ish underground. The people of the Alatians were indeed "moved" by the Alphatian Emperor. So that can explain the refugees. One problem: all of this happened around 730 AC, and GAZ4 states that the Honor wizards have already arrived at the 7th century AC.
#3 Cthulhudrew May 05, 2004 21:31:57	Lost Woodrake suggested: 1. Regarding what you said about the Council - Well, the Council was established by Black Toes at 642 AC. That's around the time the Honor wizards arrived to Ierendi. Now, Black Toes' wife - Kerhy Matrongle - is Glantrian. Maybe she's Flaemish? Maybe she has connections with those Fire Wizards of Alphatia? The fact that Black Toes assumed her surname might imply that Kerhy has considerable power over her husband - and is the true ruler of Ierendi. Maybe all this Council idea is indeed hers, in order to promote the Honor wizards' interests. You've got me to thinking about the Glantri connection (Kerhy Matrongle). Here are my initial ideas: When Kerhy Matrongle, a flaemish wizard from Braejr, married Black Toes and began helping him set up his government, the wizards on Honor Island got worried. They had just left Alphatian territories in order to study in private and avoid "imperial entanglements" and now more Alphatians (the flaems) were getting involved in their neck of the woods. Could be a coincidence, but why take that risk? (Especially when it was the flaems and their unchecked, careless study of fire magic- not like the HI more reserved and cautious means- that blew up the original Alphatian homeworld?) So the HIs decided it was necessary to get more involved in the establishment of Ierendi than simply helping turn aside the Thyatian invasion like they did to secure their island home in the first place. Hence, they helped/suggested the establishment of the Tribunal system (rather than a monarchy), and, later- to dilute the power of the Tribunal some more (as a failsafe) they "helped" to get the Council of merchants (can't think of the name for it in Gaz4 offhand) established as a legitimate power structure (as opposed to simple lobbyists). They also got involved in the tourist industry, when it seemed inevitable that political interests were looking to establish something along those lines, in order to see that it was set up in a way that would help them maintain their isolation. 2. GAZ4 says the Alphatian refugees are from south-east of the Isle of Dawn. I think that's the Alatians. According to DotE, those islands were populated by non-wizards who wished to live far away from Alphatia. A good place for a Fire-ish underground. The people of the Alatians were indeed "moved" by the Alphatian Emperor. So that can explain the refugees. That's right. The Alatians are probably most likely. As you say, it kind of fits with a lot of things about them, anyway- 1) the Alatians have a high Thothian population to them (the westernmost, anyway- note the Thothian names of some of the settlements there), and the Thothians are known to have fire-worshippers among them (due to Rathanos' influence). 2) During Alphatia's "beautification" craze (c. 500 AC, IIRC), the Alatians are "resettled" and converted into tourist traps- which would probably move the settlers there (either forcefully or willingly, most likely some combination of the two). Which would fit with the time frame of when the Honor Islanders arrive. Which means the Honor Islanders are probably either a Yanifey/Thothian mix (the two "original" cultures of the Alatians), with a decidedly Thothian bent (their fire worship), a Cypri/Thothian mix (dating back to Alphatian settlement of the Alatians following the Nithia debacle c.500 BC, when the Thothians would have been too weak to stand against Akphatian invasion), all Thothian, all Yanifey, or all Cypri. I think I like the Thothian/Cypri explanation, as the merging of the two thus gives you ties to fire magic on both sides- seeing the thothians and their divine fire-magicks brought those cypri/alphatians who were still interested in fire magick (just not the extreme version of Alphaks' flaemish followers) and the two cultures developed an amalgam- divine and arcane fire magic. This, naturally, would have worried the rulers of Alphatia, and when Mylertendal's "beautification" movement began, and the idea of creating an artists paradise sprang up, certain political interests immediately "sponsored" the Alatian isles as a likely location. There was a tremendous amount of support for such a project by the Grand Council- unprecedented support, in fact. (Thus, they could get rid of the potential threat of the Alatians under the guise of civic improvement).
#4 Cthulhudrew May 05, 2004 21:34:12	I forgot to reply to Lost Woodrake's post re: this matter: One problem: all of this happened around 730 AC, and GAZ4 states that the Honor wizards have already arrived at the 7th century AC. D'OH! For some reason, this sounds about right to me, but I can't for the life of me think where it comes from. I seem to recall Mylertendal and Alatians being resettled c. 500 AC. Do you remember where you got this information? I'd like to see if I can figure a workaround somehow...
#5 zombiegleemax May 06, 2004 2:31:40	I took it from DotE - the entry about the Alatians. (i like all your work on the matter - but i'll have to read it more thoroughly in order to comment. later.)