There have been other cases of drow in dragonlance, however, you'll be hard pressed finding anyone who considers it canon (a shame really - i felt Wild Elves was a good adventure and Jaithuli (sp) quite interesting. But then again, I'm also an advocate of Psionics - a heathen in the dragonlance fan world
) .I also seem to remember some other dark skinned elven race in Riverwind the Plainsman, but they were not drow-like. I'm sure someone here can identify them.
If they still argue show them page page 212, Column 1, paragraph 1, sentance 2 of the Dragonlance Campaign Setting.
Some will also argue using the 'Wild Elves' arguement. 'Wild Elves' is the title of an old module where a spelljammer craft full of drow crash landed on Krynn. However most do not consider this canon.
Any elf that is "cast out" of elven society in DL would be considered a dark elf.
I believe that (if I am not mistaken) that Alhana and Porthios were also viewed as dark elves (although unjustly).
Originally posted by Maladaar
The term "dark elf" refers to an elf that has chosen the path of evil. It is strictly an alignment thing and not a racial thing.
That's not entirely accurate. You don't have to be evil to be a dark elf. As you pointed out, one could be cast out of elven society unjustly.
So I'd say "dark elf" is more of a societal term.
Where as "drow" in the Dragonlance world would be the derogitory racial slur.
~~~
I am also a fan of psionics so don't feel bad, We are not playing when the new setting suggest but are playing in the 5 years before the war of the lance. SO several of us where rereading the origional books to kind of get the feel for the world agian. any way I think that the decision to eliminate then when they are mentioned in the first book was a bad one, couldn't they just have been extinct.
Originally posted by LordofIllusions
Have the people on Krynn ever even seen an orc ?
~~~
Nope...as they dont exist.....I simply use it as a racial slur....just like the people of Krynn havent seen a drow elf, but they use the term drow as a derogatory term for dark elves.
Oh and sorry for automatically assuming they were arguing with you. I'm just under the impression that the settings are getting way to similar and am militant about my stance on drow. Of course I should say that if a DM wants drow on krynn that's his perogitive.
at any rate the book uses that word DROW so whats up with that?
Do this: tell her to read the WHOLE section of that chapter. Not just waht she wants to read, but all of it.
Because it states right there that drow = dark elf. That's all the explanation anybody should ever need, but apparently it's not.
Well, if you accept Dalamar's trips to Toril to have icecream with Elminister and Mordenkainen....
He may have seen orcs.
On Krynn he has/had leadership of the wizards, wealth, power, prestige...on Toril he would just be another one of the thousands of middle-powered wizards.
I can't see why he would want to stay on Toril.
Keep in mind this is all pre-Chaos War. After that, Dalamar stopped appearing in the articles.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Heh....As far as I know the articles you speak of are considered extremely non canon articles ...I havent seen them myself, nor do I really care to....As far as I am concerned, If Dalamar had left Krynn like that, I doubt very highly that he would have returned.
The articles where in a Dragon Magazine, I have it but I can't find it now. I'll tell you now they where fun stories with cool new spells. Besides, it was priceless reading Dalamar threaten the GREAT Elminster. Elm gives Dal marshmallow and he thought it was some sort of trap when it became mushy in his mouth.
I was thinking about the psionicsissue as well, it sort of implies that Caromon and Raistlin's mother was a psionic, she wasa seer and was not a mage, just something to think about.
In Krynn, the ability to wield arcane magic is not something you learn in books, it is something you are born with. You either have it, or you do not. The book-study helps you learn the proper words, gestures, and methods of controlling your own mind so that you can use and shape the power you were born with. Without that knowledge, the magic overpowers you and you go insane, seeing things through magic that you otherwise would not be able to.
Fortunately for most people born with magic, that very power that burns in their blood drives them to become mages, and they learn the necessary skills to retain sanity. Unfortunately for Mrs. Majere, she had no opportunity to acquire such training, her inborn talent drove her mad, and she started to see things. Seer.
I wouldn't know about the [palindrome]word drow[/palindrome] in DoAT, since I've only read the Finnish version and it only used the term "musta haltia" which translates into "dark elf".
In our game, we also use drow as a racial slur for dark elf.
EDIT: I remember being all "WTF?" when the books described Dalamar the dark elf as pale-skinned. Up until that description in Legends, I thought the dark elves mentioned in Chronicles were indeed black-skinned and white-haired drow elves with magical powers.
Originally posted by DarkWizard
In Krynn, the ability to wield arcane magic is not something you learn in books, it is something you are born with. You either have it, or you do not.
To be fair, it's in the blood and something you're born with much as being a great swordfighter or a clever pirate is in the blood and something you're born with. It's a romantic (yet very real, in the world of Krynn) nod to the idea that talent at something is in you to begin with, but honed only through study, practice, determination and opportunity.
Cheers,
Cam
Actually, Mrs. Majere had no psionic powers at all. She was a seer, yes, but that translates very differently, and is more historically tied to magic than anything regarding psionics. In addition, the way Krynn treats magic is different from other worlds.
In Krynn, the ability to wield arcane magic is not something you learn in books, it is something you are born with. You either have it, or you do not. The book-study helps you learn the proper words, gestures, and methods of controlling your own mind so that you can use and shape the power you were born with. Without that knowledge, the magic overpowers you and you go insane, seeing things through magic that you otherwise would not be able to.
Fortunately for most people born with magic, that very power that burns in their blood drives them to become mages, and they learn the necessary skills to retain sanity. Unfortunately for Mrs. Majere, she had no opportunity to acquire such training, her inborn talent drove her mad, and she started to see things. Seer.
An interesting interpretation but not one demanded by the books, Raistlin makes it very clear that his mothers differant than his own. He says in no uncertian terms that he does not have the same gift as his mother. Agian I am not saying psionics are intrigal to the story line just that the implication is there. Remember Dragonlance was written with 1st edition rules and in 1st edition psionics was a "gift" something you had or did not have that was unrelated to your class or other powers. Rastlins mothers powers( which Raistlin does not have) fit more with that than simply an untrained wizard.
I also agree with the idea of someone being born a fighter, cleric, or other. Good point.
Sorry for taking the thread so far off topic.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
It was a decision made, like cutting orcs, lycanthropes, mind flayers, and psionics.....
But Krynn does have mind flayers - the Yaggol, although I don''t like their chances of making it through to 3rd Edition.
Originally posted by Kalthasian Talanward
But Krynn does have mind flayers - the Yaggol, although I don''t like their chances of making it through to 3rd Edition.
I think they'll make it ... take a mindflayer, strip down almost all special abilities and keep the mindblast ...
besides they seem to be a very important part of the Cha'asi (sp) elves.
... of course I guess they could be written off (the elves manage to wipe them out ... yada yada yada)
Originally posted by Kalthasian Talanward
But Krynn does have mind flayers - the Yaggol, although I don''t like their chances of making it through to 3rd Edition.
the listing of critters that are excluded in the campaign setting are as follows: Driders, Drow, Halflings, Lycanthropes, Mind Flayers, Orcs, Half-Orcs, Titans.
Now I'll agree that yes there is a race of creatures who once were Mind Flayers on Krynn called the Yaggol. However, they are so unlike the typical Mind Flayer that calling them one is ridiculous. They once were...but they arent any more.
Still.....I'd like to see them in something DL....perhaps a Taladas sourcebook something....
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
However, they are so unlike the typical Mind Flayer that calling them one is ridiculous.
Stronger, taller, degenerate, lacking in some of their ancestors abilities, but still mind flayers. They still blast you into submission with mental force, and they still extract your brain to eat it. Two classic mind flayer traits. And calling them so is only as ridiculous as calling a sea dragon a dragon. It is far removed from the first dragons on Krynn in both ability and appearance, yet still obviously from the same genus. Evolutionary adaption or perhaps greygem influence, still, they are dragons
I tend to think that actually, since that book was written far far after the game had been through at lest one edition change(maybe it had even gone SAGA, not entirely sure) Anyhow....my general opinion is that Margaret was not implying psionics at all...I believe she was implying an ambient magic of some sort....like mysticism or primal sorcery. And as far as the drow thing goes...Im very glad the setting is without the drow race...I like the hard cuts that are made....It makes for a setting that is quite different than the others. Some would say that it isnt necessary to cut them, and I would agree that it isnt "necessary". It was a decision made, like cutting orcs, lycanthropes, mind flayers, and psionics.....A decision to make the setting different than the others.....Which is why I chose to run DL over the other setttings
No actually the book was written in the early 80's write during the heyday of AD&D before any thought to other editions, there was nothing resembling " primal sorcery" in the game back then, and I will also remind you that Tracy Hickmen would have been the prime mover on these things, he is the one who DM'd the adventures which the books are based on, remember that the books where the modules FIRST and that the where written only after being played through. It is extremely unlikely that anything was intentionally being invented( like mystcism or sorcery) as if you played first edition and read the books carefully you can practicely see the rules being implimented. yes I think 1st edition psionics would be most appropriate for a DL campaign and that the possesers of such gifts would probably be viewed with hostility.
At any rate I think the fact that the Drow are mentioned in the original book should mean that they at least did exist at some point and that they just should say that they are irrevokably extinct rather than they do not exist. At any rate that is my opinion. I could care less what they say exist as any DM chooses what to include and what not to include, in his campaigns.
Originally posted by Elthbert
At any rate I think the fact that the Drow are mentioned in the original book...
*sigh* This is purely a matter of interpretation as to whether this particular used of "drow" (in Chronicles) refers to an actual dark skinned, white haired elf.
Between the fact that the section mentions "dark elf" as well as "banshee", the only guess I have for the fact that it must be a dark skinned FR elf is, well, because everybody associates the word drow with a dark skinned FR elf.
Just because the book *might* say so doesn't mean it's the best way to go. A few books mention orcs or half-orcs. Doesn't mean that that was what was intended, or orcs should automatically be everywhere on Krynn.
As for Rosamun, it's more simple I think than people are making it out to be.
First off, most of the stuff with Rosamun (if not all of it) is in the novels. So you're talking artistic license here. Which means, basically, that you have stuff that isn't going to fit exactly with D&D game rules.
This is the case throughout Chronicles and, in fact, all novels based on any game material.
That said, it's convenient to try and fit Rosamun's abilities into the now-standard/current systems of magic. I'm not sure where seeing fits in, but I would also say it would be sorcery or mysticism.
But then, I've long argued that there were those that likely had sorcerous powers since The Beginning, but perhaps they didn't know what it was, etc.
Originally posted by Elthbert
No actually the book was written in the early 80's write during the heyday of AD&D before any thought to other editions, there was nothing resembling " primal sorcery" in the game back then, and I will also remind you that Tracy Hickmen would have been the prime mover on these things, he is the one who DM'd the adventures which the books are based on, remember that the books where the modules FIRST and that the where written only after being played through. It is extremely unlikely that anything was intentionally being invented( like mystcism or sorcery) as if you played first edition and read the books carefully you can practicely see the rules being implimented. yes I think 1st edition psionics would be most appropriate for a DL campaign and that the possesers of such gifts would probably be viewed with hostility.
At any rate I think the fact that the Drow are mentioned in the original book should mean that they at least did exist at some point and that they just should say that they are irrevokably extinct rather than they do not exist. At any rate that is my opinion. I could care less what they say exist as any DM chooses what to include and what not to include, in his campaigns.
Way to totally disregard what I said in the first place....We were talking about Rosamun...Raistlin's mother...who was brought in to the story in a book called The Soulforge. Published in 1999 a full three years after the Dragonlance Fifth Age Dramatic Adventure Game was published in 1996. The character Rosamun was introduced three years after the concept of primal sorcery was introduced, which means yes...primal sorcery could have been implied...and was much much more likely as both of these products were released AFTER the official stance was made that there were no psionics in Dragonlance.
And as far as your comment on caring whether or not Drow officially exist in the campaign....Why would you post this thread wanting to know about the official stance of Drow in DL when you didnt care in the first place?
But yes...you are right...the DM chooses what to use and what not to use in his game....Im gonna go on choosing to play my Dragonlance campaign within the tenets of the books as they are written....I have no desire to make my DL world more like the other campaign worlds out there...I dont need drow to make my game interesting.....
..........Which is just as valid a gaming option as your deciding to include them.
But yes...you are right...the DM chooses what to use and what not to use in his game....Im gonna go on choosing to play my Dragonlance campaign within the tenets of the books as they are written....I have no desire to make my DL world more like the other campaign worlds out there...I dont need drow to make my game interesting.....
I agree. I try to keep my campaign as close to the novel storyline as possible. If I include Drow in my Dragonlance campaign it will not feel like Dragonlance to me it will feel like Forgotten Realms.
And lord knows I have had enough of Elmer(Elminster), Catwoman(Cattie Brie), and drool(Drizzt).
~~~
*sigh* This is purely a matter of interpretation as to whether this particular used of "drow" (in Chronicles) refers to an actual dark skinned, white haired elf.
Between the fact that the section mentions "dark elf" as well as "banshee", the only guess I have for the fact that it must be a dark skinned FR elf is, well, because everybody associates the word drow with a dark skinned FR elf.
This is where I "sigh" The Dark skined white haired Drow are not a forgotten realms thing they are an AD&D thing they have there oragins in greyhawk just like almost everything else.I am looking right now at my Fiend Folio published in 1981 and right here on pg 33 are the Drow( Dark Elf) 4 years before the DoAT was published and 6 or 7 years before Forgotten Realms. the Drow are not a forgotten Relms thing and they where well defined very early on, the authors of the Dragon Lance books knew exactly what one was, and knew that they where a black skinned white haired subrace of elves. I am so sick of the implication thaat Drow are a FR thing, I can't stand FR but I love the Drow.
Now Serena DarkMyst II was responding to your post--
And as far as your comment on caring whether or not Drow officially exist in the campaign....Why would you post this thread wanting to know about the official stance of Drow in DL when you didnt care in the first place?
-- When I said that a DM decides what to put in his campaign or not, the idea that you would choose to run a dragon lance campaign because certian creatures floors me. You can always run your campaign with what ever creatures you want plus or minus. I was in a rush and may have come of to harsh for that I appologize. However Rosamun was not introduced in the soulforge she was introduced in the Chronicals whichi is what I was discussing, She might have been developed inthe Soulforge which I have not read but she and her powers have there origin in the first book of the Dragon Lance world. That is how she came up and that is how we where talking about her.
Originally posted by Elthbert
[b]This is where I "sigh" The Dark skined white haired Drow are not a forgotten realms thing they are an AD&D thing they have there oragins in greyhawk just like almost everything else.
And even though I had played some D&D as a kid, the use of the word "drow" in DoAT was my first exposure to it.
I didn't have any preconceived notions that it HAD to be what you say it has to be.
I am looking right now at my Fiend Folio published in 1981
So?
I am so sick of the implication thaat Drow are a FR thing, I can't stand FR but I love the Drow.
Get used to it, because FR is what made drow famous.
But then, DL came before FR, and I'm sick of the implication that the useage of the word 'drow' in DL has to mean the FR variety of elf.
Either way, gnomes in DL aren't like gnomes in any other settings (or atleast were unique at the time).
The point being that the useage of the word drow doesn't have to automatically mean that it's referring to the stuff in every other campaign setting. Especially when, iirc, it says "dark elf", NOT "dark skinned elf".
Your arguement is no differant than someone saying " there was an englishman there" and you saying "well it doesn']t have to be an englishman from England, it could be some other type of Englishmen" There is nothing preconcieved about it, the Drow/ Dark elves where firmly established as black skinned white haired elves for 4 or more years when it was DoAT was written. Why would it W&H been so sloppy as to not use the word intended.
However Rosamun was not introduced in the soulforge she was introduced in the Chronicals whichi is what I was discussing, She might have been developed inthe Soulforge which I have not read but she and her powers have there origin in the first book of the Dragon Lance world. That is how she came up and that is how we where talking about her
Nope...Rosamun Majere was introduced as a character in the Soulforge....so that is what we were talking about, hence that is where she came from...do your reading.
Actually queen of the demonwebpits madethe row faous and it was written before FR ever came out. The Drow are called Dark Elf as an alternant name in the fiend folio back in 1981, YEARS BEFORE DRAGONLANCE. If you don't see how thats relevent wel then you are just unreasonable and there is little point discussing things with you. The Drow were quite well known way back in the beginning of AD&D, they where developed for greyhowk and it makes no since that W&H would have chosen to use that word if that creature( a black skined dark elf) was not intended. Agian that is obviously what was intended.
Well....you see...in Dragonlance a dark elf is an elf who has been exiled. Plain and simple.....no other meaning than that....they are NOT the black skinned elves of other settings.....get used to it....Look for pics of Dalamar...he is a dark elf....You will clearly see that he is pale skinned.
And perhaps W & H decided to put a different use to the word drow in the setting....but plain and simple....the official stance in the setting....No Drow Elves. Period. Plain as day right there in the campaign setting. There is just no getting around that.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
The articles where in a Dragon Magazine, I have it but I can't find it now. I'll tell you now they where fun stories with cool new spells. Besides, it was priceless reading Dalamar threaten the GREAT Elminster. Elm gives Dal marshmallow and he thought it was some sort of trap when it became mushy in his mouth.
Btw, IIRC the place where the three wizards convened was not on Toril but actually in Ed Greenwood's house right here on Earth (at least that's where I hope he thinks he lives ;).
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Nope...Rosamun Majere was introduced as a character in the Soulforge....so that is what we were talking about, hence that is where she came from...do your reading.
I'm not sure about that. I've yet to read soulforge (its amongst a pile of books that are just waiting for some time to be read) yet I do recall her being mentioned (perhaps form the chronicles themselves or from some gaming product). Although she maybe fleshed out more in the Soulforge, there was mention of her and her abilities in previous books. Thats what I think Elthbert is referring to.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Rosamun never made an appearance at all in the Chronicles.....her first appearance was in The Soulforge. Flat out....He's wrong.
I don't have the books with me, and she may have refered to as Raistlin's mother, but I'm pretty sure she's detailed elsewhere.
Originally posted by Elthbert
Actually she is mentioned repeatedly in the chronicles. I didn't use her name until you did but Raistins mother and her powers where mentioned and discussed in Chronicles YOU are wrong. And since I brought her up as a possibl justification of Psionic I think I would know what e were talking about.
And Rosamun was not mentioned like that until the Soulforge...Im serious....I know what Im talking about...If you are so sure then where is it she is brought up in the Chronicles?
Originally posted by Elthbert
There is a nice little discussion of Raistlins mothers and her powers in chapter 5 in DoWN among other places.
Could you please be a little more specific? THat doesnt tell me much.
Well....you see...in Dragonlance a dark elf is an elf who has been exiled. Plain and simple.....no other meaning than that....they are NOT the black skinned elves of other settings.....get used to it....Look for pics of Dalamar...he is a dark elf....You will clearly see that he is pale skinned.
Well That would be a big giant DUH .I know the campaign setting does not have drow THAT is kind of the point of this whole thread that they are mentioned in the first book and the banished from the setting which I think was simply sloppy when they could have been disposed of in a permentant and effectual way simply by having had them exterminated by the surface elves long ago or some such other thing. I am not argueing that every one should have drow in there campaign only that they where there origonally and it is odd that they just suddenly didn't exist one day.
Well lets see in my printing it is on pgs 50-52 and is a discussion between Raistlin and Laurana. As I said there are other places she is mentioned but I don't intend on spendiong the night looking them all up one should suffice to prove my point.
Drow means 'dark elf' in other campaign settings where there are dark skinned elves that's what it means. In Dragonlance where there are NOT dark skinned elves its used for exiles, or Dark Elves. Seems pretty simple to me.
Later, the Tales of the Lance (1992) Box Set would even give her stats. (Coincidently this and other early sources also named Sturm's mother as "Illys" Brightblade, rather than Anna).
Soulforge is clearly not Rosamun's first appearance, but probably the most detailed of them.
Originally posted by Elthbert
[b]Actually queen of the demonwebpits madethe row faous and it was written before FR ever came out.
I never argued that. I know that drow existed before FR.
The Drow are called Dark Elf as an alternant name in the fiend folio back in 1981, YEARS BEFORE DRAGONLANCE.
Two years before DL. Try not to put *that* much emphasis on the fact. ;)
Yet, if you ask the average D&D fan where they know drow from, I'm betting that FR would be your answer.
If you don't see how thats relevent wel then you are just unreasonable and there is little point discussing things with you.
Hardly unreasonable.
What's unreasonable is the fact that it's your way or the highway. The fact that maybe, just maybe, W&H intended something other than what you assume is correct, that not everybody automatically thinks
and it makes no since that W&H would have chosen to use that word if that creature( a black skined dark elf) was not intended.
In case you didn't notice, language is not something set in stone. Language changes, it evolves.
Agian that is obviously what was intended.
Well, when I see something from Margaret or Tracy on the matter...
Your arguement is no differant than someone saying " there was an englishman there" and you saying "well it doesn']t have to be an englishman from England, it could be some other type of Englishmen"
A poor analogy. Drow describes a race, Englishman does not.
The drow ended up in the Fiend Folio in 1981 because Gygax wanted to contribute to what was otherwise a big book of monsters from the British magazine White Dwarf, monsters which were for the most part created by British authors. Gygax's nycadaemon and mezzodaemon also appeared in this book, the first monster book to follow his own Monster Manual of 1977.
R.A. Salvatore introduced Drizzt in the Crystal Shard, as he liked the idea of drow (from those earlier modules) but wanted to have a renegade who had left his evil race behind him. As all drow in 1st edtion were ambidextrous, Drizzt was also ambidextrous. He was also a ranger, and he's the reason the 2nd edition ranger was given two-weapon fighting (which they didn't have prior to 1989's Player's Handbook.) Drizzt was also the character who revived interest in the drow, which had more or less petered out after the D-series, and firmly placed the race in the Realms as iconic villains.
Dragonlance has never had drow, or at least in the D-series sense, and leaving out Wild Elves which was a somewhat clumsy attempt to introduce them to the setting. Drow was synonymous, however, with evil elf in 1st edition AD&D, hence the reference in Chronicles, and it has been stated repeatedly over the years since that its inclusion in the book was merely a symptom of the world not being completely settled when Dragons of Autumn Twilight was written, not because race of subterranean black-skinned white-haired evil elves existed or had ever existed in the setting's continuity.
That should about do it.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
And Rosamun was not mentioned like that until the Soulforge
Actually...Rosamun's first true appearance (ie, where she's finally explored some) is in Dark Heart. One of the shining jewels in the Meetings Sextet.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Thank you Brim......I knew you would bust out with the facts!;)
Same goes to Cam for his facts.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Thank you Brim......I knew you would bust out with the facts!;)
Personally...I'm hoping for an explination on people liek Rosamun in the Towers of High Sorcery book. Was she able to tap into sorcery or mysticism for some reason? Was she a favored of one of the gods? What was her story?
I'm not holding my breath though.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
Same goes to Cam for his facts.
Yes, good words, Cam.
A poor analogy. Drow describes a race, Englishman does not.
Actually Drow are a subrace they are still elves just as englishmen are still human, they have certian defineing physical characteristics but so do natives of that country called England so I am afraid it is a perfectly fine analogy. But it really wouldn't matter this analogy is one of proper title I could have just as easily said:there was an Great dane there" and you saying "well it doesn']t have to be an Great Dane that was a giant breed with long legs and a long snout, it could be some other type of Great Dane you know like an Old English Mastiff "
Oh and the Chronicles were published in 1985 that is 4 years not 2.
Now Cam I agree with every thing you said excepting one thing idea that Drow was synonomous with evil elf in first edition, There was no restriction on playing evil elfs and no one I ever talked to or played with at the time thought there was. Drow where a subrace of elf plain and simple.
In case you didn't notice, language is not something set in stone. Language changes, it evolves
Silvanthalas this is an extremely weak arguement, langauge evolves but not in the way you are argueing one does not simply change the meaning of a word and say it is something else. If I go to a reseraunt and order coffee we all agree that coffee is a product made from a particular bean and prepared in a particular way. think about what you are saying.
Originally posted by Elthbert
Now Cam I agree with every thing you said excepting one thing idea that Drow was synonomous with evil elf in first edition, There was no restriction on playing evil elfs and no one I ever talked to or played with at the time thought there was. Drow where a subrace of elf plain and simple.
Leaving aside the fact that elves were described as being chaotic good in the Monster Manual and Player's Handbook, it does bear mentioning that your own experiences of 1st edition AD&D don't always translate objectively to the reality of the game. Nobody I ever talked to or played with back in the early eighties ever used weapon speed factors correctly, either, but it was spelled out pretty clearly in the book.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Elthbert
Oh and the Chronicles were published in 1985 that is 4 years not 2.
Dragonlance was actually first published in 1984...hence the reason 2004 is the 20th Anniversary and 1999 was the 15th Anniversary.
Not sure about the month though. What month was DL1: Dragons of Despair published...anyone know? Wasn't there a short story in Dragon before that, though? Was it the Tas story or "Test of the Twins?"
Originally posted by Elthbert
think about what you are saying.
Uh...you do realize that you just compared the name of a fictional race in a very fluid game system where names like that change often to coffee (a name that's universal in most language), don't you?
Really though...this is kind of a useless debate, or the outcome is useless anyway because:
Whatever the original intention...be it just a female evil undead elf, or a black skinned, white haired, undead female elf...the end result is the same. Drow, as the race, don't exist on Krynn...and it has been that way almost since the beginning. And the meaning of that passage should be taken as the term "drow" in Dragonlance simply is a derogitory term that means "dark elf."
he is a dark elf....You will clearly see that he is pale skinned.
Correct. As a matter of fact the various drawings of him(Dalamar) have him looking quite weak(Appearance wise, except for the one in the AoM sourcebook by Sov. Press.) as opposed to the well done pictures of the drow elves.
~~~
Originally posted by Elthbert
Silvanthalas this is an extremely weak arguement, langauge evolves but not in the way you are argueing one does not simply change the meaning of a word and say it is something else. If I go to a reseraunt and order coffee we all agree that coffee is a product made from a particular bean and prepared in a particular way. think about what you are saying.
Well, the point is moot anyways. From what Cam said, drow = dark skinned, white haired came later for the most part anyways.
Either way, the useage of the word drow, in Chronicles, could have been a new meaning for the word.
And DoAT was printed in Nov 84, so given the time it takes to write a book (up to a year or more in advance), I'm not far off the mark.