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Druids and the Elements

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragonhelm
May 01, 2004 0:46:29 I've been reading up on druid magic, and I guess I'm a bit confused on some things.

My basic understanding is that druids gain their magic from a spirit of the land, tied to some geographical feature. What are these spirits? Are they deceased Athasians from ages past, or some sort of divine manifestation of a feature of the land, or what?

In 2e, druids could have major access to one elemental sphere, and minor to another. The explanation I got was that a feature of the land could be tied to various elements. For example, a volcano might be both earth and fire.

Does this translate at all to 3e, either with Athas.org's materials or Dragon magazine's conversion? I'm not seeing anything in 3e that says that druids have ties to the elements.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: When did druids go from being loners (2e) to organized (Dragon)?
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
May 01, 2004 1:23:58
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I've been reading up on druid magic, and I guess I'm a bit confused on some things.

My basic understanding is that druids gain their magic from a spirit of the land, tied to some geographical feature. What are these spirits? Are they deceased Athasians from ages past, or some sort of divine manifestation of a feature of the land, or what?

Spirits of the Land are the druid Advanced Beings. they are almost like a collective mind comprised of druids that have achieved that state of being through the druid metamorphosis. They also are the spiritual power of a geographical region. There's information on the druid metamorphosis in EAFW, and there's a (weakened) Spirit of the Land write-up in the MM2. Yesm I know, it's a CR 20 creature, but I really don't think that it is powerful enough to really be the advanced being form of a druid.

In 2e, druids could have major access to one elemental sphere, and minor to another. The explanation I got was that a feature of the land could be tied to various elements. For example, a volcano might be both earth and fire.

They could. The problem was originally, there were no Spirits of the Land. then EAFW came into play, and added them. so the druid magic had to reconsile the differences a bit.

Does this translate at all to 3e, either with Athas.org's materials or Dragon magazine's conversion? I'm not seeing anything in 3e that says that druids have ties to the elements.

I'd say it probably doesn't directly translate in mechanics, since the mechanics behind druid spellcasting changed significantly from 2e to 3e D&D period. I'd rather them not having the elemental ties, and let the Spirits of the Land instead be able to channel power from all of the elements equally, rather than making a Druid tied to one element or another specifically.

EDIT: When did druids go from being loners (2e) to organized (Dragon)?

Thy aren't supposed to be organized. Dragon's write-up is just plain wrong.
#3
csk
May 01, 2004 12:03:47
The problem was originally, there were no Spirits of the Land. then EAFW came into play, and added them. so the druid magic had to reconsile the differences a bit.

Spirits of the Land are first mentioned in the 1st edition rules book under the druid's entry. They are also in the Terrors of the Desert, before EAFW ever came out. Originally they were just unexplained beings; then after Dragon Kings, when all the other spellcasters got to change, the druids got a chance to, too.
#4
murkaf
May 01, 2004 14:47:55
When did druids go from being loners (2e) to organized (Dragon)?

EAFW tells of a time before the Cleansing Wars when the druids were organized, but they were dissolved during (or immediately after) the Wars

As for Spirits of the Land, I read that once Athas had one Spirit, but that with all the defiling it underwent, as portions of the land went dead, it was split among it's different aspects, thus originating the Spirits of the Land as we know them.

But I can't recall if I read that last part on this board, EAFW or in some other book...
#5
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
May 01, 2004 15:57:05 I think from this board. That sounds like the thread/idea about the "Spirit of Athas" that was done. (Manwe or something)
#6
Pennarin
May 01, 2004 16:12:49
Originally posted by murkaf
As for Spirits of the Land, I read that once Athas had one Spirit, but that with all the defiling it underwent, as portions of the land went dead, it was split among it's different aspects, thus originating the Spirits of the Land as we know them.

But I can't recall if I read that last part on this board, EAFW or in some other book...

Maybe you're talking of Abbey's three novels? She had a Guardian of Athas (guardian = spirit of) that protected the world and was composed of all the lesser guardians, including those of ponds, deserts, the wind. When she manifested her guardians into actual MM Spirits of the Land, they weren't quite like the MM version, I think they were more druid-like for once (contrarily to the MM version, Spirits should me made of all elements, or at least more than 2). The spirits that give life to what surrounds athasians is not an elemental spirit but a spirit of life, thus its made of all elements, para-elements...do you shouldn't find a Earth Spirit of the Land manifesting short of on a rock outcropping.
#7
Pennarin
May 01, 2004 16:19:29
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I think from this board. That sounds like the thread/idea about the "Spirit of Athas" that was done. (Manwe or something)

That would be Jihun-Nish's Mindë.
#8
jon_oracle_of_athas
May 05, 2004 16:07:36 Mmm. Minde is a chocolate brand in Norway.
#9
Shei-Nad
May 05, 2004 18:23:43 and Manwe is from Tolkien, so... (''God'' of the winds, chief of the ''pantheon'' of Arda (Middle-Earth's planet))
#10
jihun-nish
May 05, 2004 20:30:56
Originally posted by Pennarin
That would be Jihun-Nish's Mindë.

Actually,I dop mention them in my thread/idea but the main idea of the said thread in the theory on the essence of Athas or if you prefer; The Spirit of Athas itself and how it came to die(almost)

You can read it here if you like.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragonhelm May 01, 2004 0:46:29	I've been reading up on druid magic, and I guess I'm a bit confused on some things. My basic understanding is that druids gain their magic from a spirit of the land, tied to some geographical feature. What are these spirits? Are they deceased Athasians from ages past, or some sort of divine manifestation of a feature of the land, or what? In 2e, druids could have major access to one elemental sphere, and minor to another. The explanation I got was that a feature of the land could be tied to various elements. For example, a volcano might be both earth and fire. Does this translate at all to 3e, either with Athas.org's materials or Dragon magazine's conversion? I'm not seeing anything in 3e that says that druids have ties to the elements. Thanks in advance. EDIT: When did druids go from being loners (2e) to organized (Dragon)?
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 01, 2004 1:23:58	Originally posted by Dragonhelm I've been reading up on druid magic, and I guess I'm a bit confused on some things. My basic understanding is that druids gain their magic from a spirit of the land, tied to some geographical feature. What are these spirits? Are they deceased Athasians from ages past, or some sort of divine manifestation of a feature of the land, or what? Spirits of the Land are the druid Advanced Beings. they are almost like a collective mind comprised of druids that have achieved that state of being through the druid metamorphosis. They also are the spiritual power of a geographical region. There's information on the druid metamorphosis in EAFW, and there's a (weakened) Spirit of the Land write-up in the MM2. Yesm I know, it's a CR 20 creature, but I really don't think that it is powerful enough to really be the advanced being form of a druid. In 2e, druids could have major access to one elemental sphere, and minor to another. The explanation I got was that a feature of the land could be tied to various elements. For example, a volcano might be both earth and fire. They could. The problem was originally, there were no Spirits of the Land. then EAFW came into play, and added them. so the druid magic had to reconsile the differences a bit. Does this translate at all to 3e, either with Athas.org's materials or Dragon magazine's conversion? I'm not seeing anything in 3e that says that druids have ties to the elements. I'd say it probably doesn't directly translate in mechanics, since the mechanics behind druid spellcasting changed significantly from 2e to 3e D&D period. I'd rather them not having the elemental ties, and let the Spirits of the Land instead be able to channel power from all of the elements equally, rather than making a Druid tied to one element or another specifically. EDIT: When did druids go from being loners (2e) to organized (Dragon)? Thy aren't supposed to be organized. Dragon's write-up is just plain wrong.
#3 csk May 01, 2004 12:03:47	The problem was originally, there were no Spirits of the Land. then EAFW came into play, and added them. so the druid magic had to reconsile the differences a bit. Spirits of the Land are first mentioned in the 1st edition rules book under the druid's entry. They are also in the Terrors of the Desert, before EAFW ever came out. Originally they were just unexplained beings; then after Dragon Kings, when all the other spellcasters got to change, the druids got a chance to, too.
#4 murkaf May 01, 2004 14:47:55	When did druids go from being loners (2e) to organized (Dragon)? EAFW tells of a time before the Cleansing Wars when the druids were organized, but they were dissolved during (or immediately after) the Wars As for Spirits of the Land, I read that once Athas had one Spirit, but that with all the defiling it underwent, as portions of the land went dead, it was split among it's different aspects, thus originating the Spirits of the Land as we know them. But I can't recall if I read that last part on this board, EAFW or in some other book...
#5 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 01, 2004 15:57:05	I think from this board. That sounds like the thread/idea about the "Spirit of Athas" that was done. (Manwe or something)
#6 Pennarin May 01, 2004 16:12:49	Originally posted by murkaf As for Spirits of the Land, I read that once Athas had one Spirit, but that with all the defiling it underwent, as portions of the land went dead, it was split among it's different aspects, thus originating the Spirits of the Land as we know them. But I can't recall if I read that last part on this board, EAFW or in some other book... Maybe you're talking of Abbey's three novels? She had a Guardian of Athas (guardian = spirit of) that protected the world and was composed of all the lesser guardians, including those of ponds, deserts, the wind. When she manifested her guardians into actual MM Spirits of the Land, they weren't quite like the MM version, I think they were more druid-like for once (contrarily to the MM version, Spirits should me made of all elements, or at least more than 2). The spirits that give life to what surrounds athasians is not an elemental spirit but a spirit of life, thus its made of all elements, para-elements...do you shouldn't find a Earth Spirit of the Land manifesting short of on a rock outcropping.
#7 Pennarin May 01, 2004 16:19:29	Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm I think from this board. That sounds like the thread/idea about the "Spirit of Athas" that was done. (Manwe or something) That would be Jihun-Nish's Mindë.
#8 jon_oracle_of_athas May 05, 2004 16:07:36	Mmm. Minde is a chocolate brand in Norway.
#9 Shei-Nad May 05, 2004 18:23:43	and Manwe is from Tolkien, so... (''God'' of the winds, chief of the ''pantheon'' of Arda (Middle-Earth's planet))
#10 jihun-nish May 05, 2004 20:30:56	Originally posted by Pennarin That would be Jihun-Nish's Mindë. Actually,I dop mention them in my thread/idea but the main idea of the said thread in the theory on the essence of Athas or if you prefer; The Spirit of Athas itself and how it came to die(almost) You can read it here if you like.